Boeing explores sale of NASA business

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/micahmaidenberg/status/1849850778112163847

News with @sharonterlep - Boeing explores sale of its NASA business, including the Starliner  vehicle & space station ops. The effort, part of a strategy by Boeing’s new CEO to streamline the company & stem losses, is at an early stage.

https://www.wsj.com/science/space-astronomy/boeing-explores-sale-of-space-business-fa7fa3a9

From the article:

Boeing is expected to keep its position overseeing the Space Launch System, some of the people said.

Before Ortberg joined, Boeing held discussions with Blue Origin, the space company owned by billionaire Jeff Bezos, about taking over some of the NASA programs, people familiar with those discussions said.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Key question - what happens if (when?) Boeing doesn’t find a buyer prepared to pay what Boeing will accept? ULA has been up for sale for over a year without success.

[DanClemmensen]

I have no clue whatsoever about the fantasy world of corporate finance, but in the real world I speculate that all of the assets that can reasonably be part of Starliner are less valuable than all of the liabilities. One relatively minor point: Starliner needs those six Atlas Vs. The Atlas Vs belong to ULA. ULA is half-owned by Boeing, but the other half is owned by LockMart.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1849852974341947774

The only plausible buyer I can think of is Blue Origin, which has an interest in space stations (could learn from Boeing's work on ISS) and would want a crew vehicle if it were to move forward with Orbital Reef. Boeing is not apparently interested in selling its SLS cash cow.

[SoftwareDude]

NASA Contracts:

Greener airliner ($?)
Core and upper SLS stages ($3.2 billion)
ISS support ($916 million)
Starliner ($?)

Any others?

[Svetoslav]

Those who don't want to read the paywalled WSJ article, there's a Yahoo one:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-explores-sale-space-business-162604851.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKeOtnH0OgGxY3k_B_hxkEFMBYtqHPZ0wRYM8_d4ac3xKWbJeVs5aRR-m4q9Lovd2grmwiKZZWiBb-OddL72PeZlgV2w43kupdJlQPKON04XzxfVocWY-tlkxUTrlUMOELzWmuT50Rh_nyJgDR3-VWwYUWeMKwpMAx7q9EIiTklb

Soooo... to put it simply, they want to sell their stuff made according to Fixed Price contracts (Starliner), but keep the Cost+ stuff (SLS).

That's a very gentle way they want to say they don't want to invest in their space stuff.

[yg1968]

https://twitter.com/micahmaidenberg/status/1849850778112163847

News with @sharonterlep - Boeing explores sale of its NASA business, including the Starliner  vehicle & space station ops. The effort, part of a strategy by Boeing’s new CEO to streamline the company & stem losses, is at an early stage.

https://www.wsj.com/science/space-astronomy/boeing-explores-sale-of-space-business-fa7fa3a9

From the article:

Boeing is expected to keep its position overseeing the Space Launch System, some of the people said.

Before Ortberg joined, Boeing held discussions with Blue Origin, the space company owned by billionaire Jeff Bezos, about taking over some of the NASA programs, people familiar with those discussions said.

Selling Starliner to Blue would be good news for both companies!

[yg1968]

I have no clue whatsoever about the fantasy world of corporate finance, but in the real world I speculate that all of the assets that can reasonably be part of Starliner are less valuable than all of the liabilities. One relatively minor point: Starliner needs those six Atlas Vs. The Atlas Vs belong to ULA. ULA is half-owned by Boeing, but the other half is owned by LockMart.

Most likely the contracts with ULA would be part of the sale of the Starliner business. The sale of the business doesn't have to include the assumption of liabilities but if it does an assumption of liability is consideraition that is similar to Boeing receiving cash for its assets.

[edkyle99]

Would the sale include Boeing Satellites?  Commercial and Government satellites, which include X-37B.

[Sam Ho]

Those who don't want to read the paywalled WSJ article, there's a Yahoo one:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-explores-sale-space-business-162604851.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKeOtnH0OgGxY3k_B_hxkEFMBYtqHPZ0wRYM8_d4ac3xKWbJeVs5aRR-m4q9Lovd2grmwiKZZWiBb-OddL72PeZlgV2w43kupdJlQPKON04XzxfVocWY-tlkxUTrlUMOELzWmuT50Rh_nyJgDR3-VWwYUWeMKwpMAx7q9EIiTklb

Soooo... to put it simply, they want to sell their stuff made according to Fixed Price contracts (Starliner), but keep the Cost+ stuff (SLS).

That's a very gentle way they want to say they don't want to invest in their space stuff.

That's a Reuters summary of the WSJ article.  The original WSJ article is also available without a paywall courtesy of Microsoft:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/boeing-explores-sale-of-space-business/ar-AA1sVRz6

[DanClemmensen]

I have no clue whatsoever about the fantasy world of corporate finance, but in the real world I speculate that all of the assets that can reasonably be part of Starliner are less valuable than all of the liabilities. One relatively minor point: Starliner needs those six Atlas Vs. The Atlas Vs belong to ULA. ULA is half-owned by Boeing, but the other half is owned by LockMart.

Most likely the contracts with ULA would be part of the sale of the Starliner business. The sale of the business doesn't have to include the assumption of liabilities but if it does an assumption of liability is consideraition that is similar to Boeing receiving cash for its assets.

Exactly. If my uninformed speculation is true, then Boeing would need to pay the "buyer" to take Starliner.

[Tywin]

Would the sale include Boeing Satellites?  Commercial and Government satellites, which include X-37B.

And the Millennium company?

https://www.millennium-space.com/

[sdsds]

Is Starliner at all compatible with New Glenn?

[montyrmanley]

I speculated in an earlier post that Boeing might be re-evaluating their ability to "do" space projects, and apparently they did that and the answer was "no". I'm not sure who the potential buyer would be -- it's not like Boeing's space division is a crown jewel with tons of upside potential. In fact, I'd wager that any potential "sale" would involve involve a transferral of assets, contracts and debts to a willing sucker buyer with no actual cash changing hands. Boeing may just want to get this turkey off their hands (and account books).

The list of potential suckers suitors is pretty small, though. Who in the industry would both want these assets and be willing to take on the formidable costs of making the business profitable? Maybe Elon would make a play for it....

[DanClemmensen]

Is Starliner at all compatible with New Glenn?

New Glenn with an expendable upper stage could certainly launch Starliner, but would be gross overkill. New Glenn with a recoverable upper stage: probably not, because Starliner depends of it CM for Launch escape, which means it needs to be naked.

The GSE for a crewed launch is expensive, complicated, and needs to be certified.  New Glenn would need to be crew-rated.

[sstli2]

Is Starliner at all compatible with New Glenn?

The GSE for a crewed launch is expensive, complicated, and needs to be certified.  New Glenn would need to be crew-rated.

Some of which is already built (the tower), and the crew-rating is something Bezos has already acknowledged as being part of the plan.

I can't envision anyone else buying Starliner, except Blue. And unlike ULA, Starliner may actually be complementary to their existing assets.

[DanClemmensen]

Is Starliner at all compatible with New Glenn?

The GSE for a crewed launch is expensive, complicated, and needs to be certified.  New Glenn would need to be crew-rated.

Some of which is already built (the tower), and the crew-rating is something Bezos has already acknowledged as being part of the plan.

Sorry, I was unclear. I should have said "GSE enhancements", not "GSE". I think it took SpaceX about a year to upgrade SLC-40 to accommodate crew and get it certified.

[The man in the can]

Would the sale include Boeing Satellites?  Commercial and Government satellites, which include X-37B.

The article say NASA business not space business, so my guess is no.

[RedLineTrain]

Is Starliner at all compatible with New Glenn?

Doubt Blue would want it.  It doesn't solve any of Blue's problems and creates new ones, like management distraction.

[matthewkantar]

Reading between the lines, this is Boeing admitting they are incompetent when it comes to bidding a project, unable to come in on time or on budget, not interested in fixing its own mistakes,  and not capable of competing even when they are the high bidder by nearly 2X.

How long will Uncle Sam continue to fund such a slipshod mismanaged company? There are smaller younger hungrier defense and space companies coming for Boeing’s place at the slop through.