Author Topic: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...  (Read 13467 times)

Offline Hymag

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To counter the debilitating effects of micro-gravity and radiation in space we need to develop ways and means of creating earth-like conditions on various destinations in space. Large, shielded and rotating structures in space have been envisioned by many. Why not do the same thing on the moon and mars, or other locations?

Imagine a NASCAR track built on the moon. The track could be sloped to accommodate vehicles moving around the track such that - people inside the vehicles would feel as if they were under the pull of additional gravity - much the same as the rotating structures in space. Constructing the track about one-mile in diameter, and having the vehicles move at between 100-300 miles per hour, earth-like gravity conditions could be created inside the vehicles.

Now enlarge this picture. Instead of a single vehicle, imagine a large train-like system moving at a constant speed around a track. Increase the system again and one can imagine several trains moving parallel to each other. This would allow enough "area" for people to live and work under earth-like conditions. Cover the entire system with non-radioactive local materials for radiation protection and now you have earth-like gravity and radiation protection similar to earth conditions.

Additional parallel tracks can be used to allow smaller vehicles to match velocities with the moving "trains" to offload people or materials. Constructing these types of systems would allow local gravity conditions, and earth-like gravity conditions at the same location. This should be a lot easier to build than constructing large rotating structures in space. If maglev were used the system would require less maintenance, but the system should be scalable to accommodate simple to complex environments - depending on local requirements. Comments please.

Offline ChrisSpaceCH

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #1 on: 02/11/2010 11:31 am »
It would be far easier (and cheaper) to modify the human body (genetically or mechanically) to adapt to conditions of microgravity and high radiation than to adapt extra-terrestrial locations to become Earth-like. All that is required is overcoming certain... ethical... "obstacles".

Personally, I believe that, unless we go along this path (in essence, fusing Man, genetic engineering and machine), there is no way we, as a species, will ever conquer space. In that case, we should, in fact, abandon human spaceflight, and focus on robotics and artificial intelligence, until AI are self-aware and self-replicating, then release them on the galaxy in our stead...

After that, there would be 2 possible outcomes:

"We are the Borg, resisitance is futile"
OR
"the Humans are our Creators"

Either way, homo sapiens would be doomed to extinction, but we will at least have the chance to be remembered as Gods...

(Of course, if we go along with the first option of tweaking humans, homo sapiens will also go extinct, to be replaced by homo v. 2.0 and so forth...)
« Last Edit: 02/11/2010 11:33 am by ChrisSpaceCH »

Offline rklaehn

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #2 on: 02/11/2010 11:37 am »
This should be a lot easier to build than constructing large rotating structures in space.

The basic idea is sound. But I would not call building a one mile diameter smooth bowl with railroad tracks on top easier than just spinning two habitat modules with a 1 mile long tether. In fact it would be a huge construction project that would cost billions even on earth.

Offline Hymag

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #3 on: 02/11/2010 12:01 pm »
 In fact it would be a huge construction project that would cost billions even on earth.
[/quote]

Most Cities, and even small towns have at least one paved or dirt track that people race on all the time. These tracks don't cost $ Billions, and are certainly a lot cheaper than trying to build a large rotating structure in space.

Offline Nascent Ascent

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #4 on: 02/11/2010 12:03 pm »
Quote
It would be far easier (and cheaper) to modify the human body (genetically or mechanically) to adapt to conditions of microgravity and high radiation than to adapt extra-terrestrial locations to become Earth-like. All that is required is overcoming certain... ethical... "obstacles".

Easier? All that's required is overcoming ethical?

We don't know how to genetically alter the body to adapt to microgravity or high radiation at all. We're not even sure of what really happens to the body in zero-g in the long term.  Perhaps the gravity of the moon or mars would be adequate to prevent any problems.  We just don't know yet.

Yes, we're just starting to be able to genetically modify certain things but we certainly don't know how do something this specific. What gene(s) would you splice or replace that would provide this protection?  How would you know or test?

The racetrack approach, while impractical in my opinion is certainly doable as far as an engineering project.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2010 12:08 pm by Nascent Ascent »

Offline Hymag

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #5 on: 02/11/2010 12:33 pm »
If mankind is to spend long periods of time in space, working, playing and raising families. In my opinion, we will need earth-like environments. That includes protection from radiation, and near earth-like gravity. I would not want to raise my kids conditioned only to lunar gravity. They would not even be able to stand up if they went back to visit their home planet Earth. Would anyone be able to adapt to a gravity 6-time as strong as the Earth's?

Offline khallow

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #6 on: 02/11/2010 01:12 pm »
If mankind is to spend long periods of time in space, working, playing and raising families. In my opinion, we will need earth-like environments. That includes protection from radiation, and near earth-like gravity. I would not want to raise my kids conditioned only to lunar gravity. They would not even be able to stand up if they went back to visit their home planet Earth. Would anyone be able to adapt to a gravity 6-time as strong as the Earth's?

Why should we go through all that trouble just to raise kids on the Moon? I agree with the idea that's it's easier in the long run just to adapt humans to low gravity environments rather than the other way around. And not being able to visit Earth without mechanical assistance? Doesn't sound like a big deal to me.

Even if you don't know how to do it, you can breed animals to the environment and then figure out how it's done. For example, start by breeding rats in low grav. Then when you get something that works well, move up to pigs. Then when that works, you should have a number of good ideas for humans. It might take a while, say a few decades, to work out the details.
Karl Hallowell

Offline Hymag

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #7 on: 02/11/2010 01:47 pm »
Even if you don't know how to do it, you can breed animals to the environment and then figure out how it's done. For example, start by breeding rats in low grav. Then when you get something that works well, move up to pigs. Then when that works, you should have a number of good ideas for humans. It might take a while, say a few decades, to work out the details. (Quote)

If your logic is correct, then the question becomes: Do we want to remain Earth Humans, or become creatures adapted to whichever planetary environment a specific colony is on at the time. I would opt that we try to remain Earth Humans. We have enough problems with race differences here on Earth as it is. Anyone else have an opinion on that?

Offline Jim

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #8 on: 02/11/2010 01:54 pm »

Most Cities, and even small towns have at least one paved or dirt track that people race on all the time. These tracks don't cost $ Billions, and are certainly a lot cheaper than trying to build a large rotating structure in space.

Incorrect.  This would be more complex and therefore more expensive than a orbital station.  An orbital station doesn't need very much power to rotate it.  Any orbital station doesn't need a suspension system

It is non viable   

All the utilities (power, water, gases) would but required to go through a slip joint to allow for rotation.

The parallel transfer train is complex

Offline ChrisSpaceCH

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #9 on: 02/11/2010 01:56 pm »
If your logic is correct, then the question becomes: Do we want to remain Earth Humans, or become creatures adapted to whichever planetary environment a specific colony is on at the time. I would opt that we try to remain Earth Humans. We have enough problems with race differences here on Earth as it is. Anyone else have an opinion on that?

Yes. My viewpoint is exactly the opposite.

I believe we should, if we want to conquer space, shed our Earth Human skin and become "Homo astralis" or whatever you want to call them. I believe Homo sapiens is doomed to extinction anyway.

I guess that makes me a transhumanist.

As for racism: I don't think thats going to be a big problem. Homo astralis will diverge and conquer space and not care a whiff about Earth: "A backwards place with crushing gravity, atrocious weather, pollution and primitive Neanderthals".

Homo astralis won't bother contacting Earth, and the "primitive Neanderthals" will be too busy killing each other to worry about their space-born descendants...
« Last Edit: 02/11/2010 01:57 pm by ChrisSpaceCH »

Offline dmeche

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #10 on: 02/11/2010 06:07 pm »
Why not simply have a weighted suit to compensate for the gravitational differences.  In space a floor magnet could be used to anchor feet to the floor and a restrictive suit for the upper body.  Bulk would be the only obstical in that the suit would mimic 1G.

Offline 93143

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #11 on: 02/11/2010 06:35 pm »
Inertia would also be higher.  Swinging your arm would be a very high-stress maneuver if it had six times the mass it does on Earth, even if it wasn't any harder to lift in a quasi-static scenario.

Offline GraphGuy

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #12 on: 02/11/2010 08:25 pm »
Forget one g.  Go Von Braun with an inflatable cylindrical habitat with a rigid frame and get it up to 1/6th or 1/3rd of a g.  Coat the habitat with spray on solar cells so that it can generate power in any orientation.  Dump excess heat by Putting radiators along the axis (pointing downward in the artificial gravity) and give them the ability to swivel so that they can orient their surface area to be mostly parallel to incoming sunlight.  Anyone have any info on how large a diameter a hab would need in order to generate 1/6th gravity and yet to minimize any disorientation caused by the Coriolis effect?

Offline Hymag

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #13 on: 02/11/2010 08:50 pm »
The goal is to create a "safe" place to live outside the Earth's atmosphere. In my opinion, the only "feasible" way of doing that, in our lifetime, is build the one-earth-gravity center on the moon. It can be done with today's technology. No new science required.

Offline GraphGuy

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #14 on: 02/11/2010 09:12 pm »
The goal is to create a "safe" place to live outside the Earth's atmosphere. In my opinion, the only "feasible" way of doing that, in our lifetime, is build the one-earth-gravity center on the moon. It can be done with today's technology. No new science required.

1/6th or 1/3rd g isn't safe?  It certainly would be easier than a full g.

Offline Hop_David

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #15 on: 02/11/2010 09:13 pm »
To counter the debilitating effects of micro-gravity and radiation in space we need to develop ways and means of creating earth-like conditions on various destinations in space. Large, shielded and rotating structures in space have been envisioned by many. Why not do the same thing on the moon and mars, or other locations?

It is unknown how much gravity is needed to keep us healthy.

If 1/6 is sufficient, there's no reason to build rotating habs on the moon. If we found 1/6 is sufficient that would lower the expense of making freefall spin habs with enough gravity.

But as I said, how much gravity we need is still unknown.

Offline Hymag

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #16 on: 02/11/2010 09:27 pm »
1/6-g is easier than 1-g, yes. The moon already has 1/6 g. We don't need to build another moon. We need to build a place that is safe for people to live.  If a family can live there, and raise kids there, and later return to Earth with no ill effects, then I would say it is safe. Any system that can be constructed in space that would not be safe for kids, would probably not be safe for adults either. If we are going to seriously go into space to work and live, we a need a safe place to do it.

Offline khallow

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #17 on: 02/11/2010 09:55 pm »
Even if you don't know how to do it, you can breed animals to the environment and then figure out how it's done. For example, start by breeding rats in low grav. Then when you get something that works well, move up to pigs. Then when that works, you should have a number of good ideas for humans. It might take a while, say a few decades, to work out the details.

If your logic is correct, then the question becomes: Do we want to remain Earth Humans, or become creatures adapted to whichever planetary environment a specific colony is on at the time. I would opt that we try to remain Earth Humans. We have enough problems with race differences here on Earth as it is. Anyone else have an opinion on that?

I don't see the point to staying Earth human on another place with a radically different environment. I think even on Earth, people are going to figure out how to become a number of things very different from what we are today. It is better to just let it happen and not flip out at people who are a little different from us.

1/6-g is easier than 1-g, yes. The moon already has 1/6 g. We don't need to build another moon. We need to build a place that is safe for people to live.  If a family can live there, and raise kids there, and later return to Earth with no ill effects, then I would say it is safe. Any system that can be constructed in space that would not be safe for kids, would probably not be safe for adults either. If we are going to seriously go into space to work and live, we a need a safe place to do it.

Why the reason for the "return to Earth" criteria? Is this some sort of variation on the pillar of Islam (one of the official five), called "Hajj"? Hajj is the requirement that every Muslim at some point in their lives goes to Mecca during a particular week of the Muslim year. Similarly, are you thinking that every human should at least one time during their life return to Earth?

I think the combination of the two above remarks, implies some sort of desire for Solar System-wide cultural coherence overriding the pragmatic needs of a colony. I think it is unnecessary and counterproductive.

For example, a likely reason for space colonies is some degree of sovereignty, including the ability to have a culture separate from those of Earth. If the colony doesn't have to conform to a near Earth-like environment, including gravity, that creates a difference which can help the colony create its own unique character (which could be a driver for colony creation). And attempting to conform closely to an Earth-like environment may drive up the cost of the colony to where it transitions from viable to nonviable.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2010 09:56 pm by khallow »
Karl Hallowell

Offline Hymag

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #18 on: 02/11/2010 10:06 pm »
It appears you desire to be something other than human. Just because humans want to go into space doesn't necessarily mean they want to give up their human heritage. I for one do not - not in this lifetime anyway. You seem to be talking science fiction - not science.

Offline marsavian

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #19 on: 02/11/2010 10:32 pm »
It appears you desire to be something other than human. Just because humans want to go into space doesn't necessarily mean they want to give up their human heritage. I for one do not - not in this lifetime anyway. You seem to be talking science fiction - not science.

If you believe in evolution we are all descended from fish anyway. Those fish that left the sea to walk on land wanted to go and adapt to a different environment, should they have been stopped to do so by the other fish ? ;) Have you seen how high you can jump and how high you can throw on the Moon ? ;) 1/6g may not be such an impediment and will probably lead to much bigger massive humans if they spent all their lives there and procreated there if that is what they choose to do. If there is a demand for a 1g environment then it will be built but most I guess will prefer the difference of 1/6 g.

Offline Hymag

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #20 on: 02/11/2010 10:47 pm »
By having a One-Earth-Gravity facility on the moon you can have the best of both worlds at the same place. It would be great if we could have a One-Moon-Gravity facility on Earth, but I don't see how that would be possible. However, we could build a One-Earth-Gravity facility on the moon. We just need the "political will" to return to the moon and build it.

Offline Rabidpanda

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #21 on: 02/11/2010 11:17 pm »
By having a One-Earth-Gravity facility on the moon you can have the best of both worlds at the same place. It would be great if we could have a One-Moon-Gravity facility on Earth, but I don't see how that would be possible. However, we could build a One-Earth-Gravity facility on the moon. We just need the "political will" to return to the moon and build it.

The problem is that your proposal for generating earth gravity on the moon would be an incredibly complex and expensive infrastructure project.  It really would not be practical if you have people living and working on the moon; it's like saying 'humans can't live 100 ft above the ground so instead of learning to fly we should put massive fans on the ground that support all the humans living in the sky."  It's just an impractical and pointless infrastructure project for something we wouldn't need.  IMHO if you want humans to live in a 1G environment that's not on Earth then you would be far better off making a spinning space station.

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #22 on: 02/11/2010 11:20 pm »
To be quite honest, humans (and living things in general) are incredibly adaptable to a wide range of conditions, even before things like genetic engineering and extreme body modifications. We will likely find ways to treat space-osteoporosis and radiation damage (actually, anti-oxidant cocktails and some drugs have shown to be effective in limiting cellular damage from radiation in the lab).

If we're talking about things like breeding humans to the conditions, we're talking about a timeline of centuries. One possibility for artificial gravity is a very strong magnetic field:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1402804343064442634
Frogs and mice have been levitated using fields of 10 Tesla and up (through paramagnetism in their bodies).

40 Tesla is the strongest non-pulsed artificial magnetic field yet produced. In a few centuries (one century, even), it may be possible or even practical for magnetic fields far stronger to be produced, allowing effectively artificial gravity to be produced on the scale of people. Another benefit of these large magnetic fields is that they would eliminate virtually all space radiation.

All those (potentially ferromagnetic) cyborg implants may not have been a good idea after all... (BTW, I think that we won't see a lot of permanent implants besides medicinal ones... people will likely want to be able to replace them when the technology changes, just like people upgrade their mp3 player instead of being stuck with an outdated model implanted in their skull or something, so surgical implants I think will remain rare or limited in scope, allowing easy changing out of various devices.)
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Offline gospacex

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #23 on: 02/12/2010 12:01 am »
To counter the debilitating effects of micro-gravity and radiation in space we need to develop ways and means of creating earth-like conditions on various destinations in space. Large, shielded and rotating structures in space have been envisioned by many. Why not do the same thing on the moon and mars, or other locations?

Imagine a NASCAR track built on the moon. The track could be sloped to accommodate vehicles moving around the track such that - people inside the vehicles would feel as if they were under the pull of additional gravity - much the same as the rotating structures in space. Constructing the track about one-mile in diameter, and having the vehicles move at between 100-300 miles per hour, earth-like gravity conditions could be created inside the vehicles.

Now enlarge this picture. Instead of a single vehicle, imagine a large train-like system moving at a constant speed around a track. Increase the system again and one can imagine several trains moving parallel to each other. This would allow enough "area" for people to live and work under earth-like conditions.

I have **far*** cheaper system. Just sew weights to the clothing astronauts on Moon or Mars wear all the time, so that they weigh close to their weight on Earth. Perhaps a bit less.

Bingo. Now they are exercising whenever they move.

It is not the same as living on Earth (increased inertia will be quite noticeable), but hopefully a good balance can be found.

Offline khallow

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #24 on: 02/12/2010 02:31 am »
It appears you desire to be something other than human. Just because humans want to go into space doesn't necessarily mean they want to give up their human heritage. I for one do not - not in this lifetime anyway. You seem to be talking science fiction - not science.

What does this have to do with science or human heritage for that matter? You're proposing an elaborate technology fix to some metaphysical issue which people might angst over, but I doubt it'll affect more than a vanishingly small number of people who happen to chose to live under difficult conditions.
Karl Hallowell

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #25 on: 02/12/2010 03:58 am »
It appears you desire to be something other than human. Just because humans want to go into space doesn't necessarily mean they want to give up their human heritage. I for one do not - not in this lifetime anyway. You seem to be talking science fiction - not science.

If you believe in evolution we are all descended from fish anyway. Those fish that left the sea to walk on land wanted to go and adapt to a different environment, should they have been stopped to do so by the other fish ? ;) Have you seen how high you can jump and how high you can throw on the Moon ? ;) 1/6g may not be such an impediment and will probably lead to much bigger massive humans if they spent all their lives there and procreated there if that is what they choose to do. If there is a demand for a 1g environment then it will be built but most I guess will prefer the difference of 1/6 g.

Actually I see a 1/6 g raised human being a lighter and more frail creature then it's Earth raised counterpart.
Less muscle and bone mass.

But then this was Gerard K. O'Neill's argument for space colonies as places to live vs planetary surface colonies the kids could visit Earth.

Of course I expect in the future there will be groups who will chose to live on other worlds and will simply adapt to them as well as groups who will prefer to recreate an Earth type habitat.
« Last Edit: 02/12/2010 04:03 am by Patchouli »

Offline Jim

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #26 on: 02/12/2010 07:13 am »
It can be done with today's technology.

No, it can't

Offline ChrisSpaceCH

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #27 on: 02/12/2010 07:29 am »
It appears you desire to be something other than human. Just because humans want to go into space doesn't necessarily mean they want to give up their human heritage. I for one do not - not in this lifetime anyway. You seem to be talking science fiction - not science.

Absolutely. We are talking pure science fiction here. Which is what space colonies are.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is absolutely NO way to establish viable colonies off-planet with current, and even forseeable tech. Won't happen this century, sorry.

Note and disclaimer: I said "viable", as in capable of sustaining itself, over more than one generation. This alone will require considerable research, notably into human biology, if you actually want to breed in 1/6th gravity, for instance. So you will have to go down my proposed path sooner or later.

Not everything can just be solved by technical and engineering feats. Some people on this forum would do well to remember that. As soon as we are considering colonisation (SciFi), we will have to adress questions of human biology, genetic engineering, artificial intelligence and, yes, ethics...

If you don't want to do that, then forget about colonies in space...

Offline KelvinZero

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #28 on: 02/12/2010 08:09 am »
People, relax :)

I also expect we will probably be able to solve this problem another way, but why not just treat it as an interesting engineering exercise?

Perhaps if this thing was built in those super cold craters you can exploit cheap superconductivity. If the moon were heavily populated/industrialised I expect magnetic rail would be the main form of transport. Perhaps all we are talking about here is a superconductor magnetic rail in a loop. Wear could be very low, and repair would be easy since you can just shunt your town to another track.

There was a similar discussion about building a centrifugal gravity base on phobos. Very low gravity worlds like phobos and ceres will probably be more useful than worlds such as the moon and mars, long term, since they probably contain all the necessary materials and would be much easier to land on and launch from than mars. also there are a hell of a lot of these low gravity icy worlds.

Offline Rhyshaelkan

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #29 on: 02/12/2010 10:17 am »
From the first hand accounts of those that went to Luna. 1/6th G was fun and exhilarating.

From medical reports, of which I do not have links readily to share, sorry, bone-loss is magnified in micro-g. Whereas any significant gravity, such as on the Lunar surface, does not contribute significantly to bone-loss. Musculature on the other hand is an ever present problem both in micro-g or full g. Exercise will be mandatory in any environment to which a human comes to inhabit.

Having thought of people living on Luna since I was 13 I had already thought of some alternatives. Lunarians at birth will spend much of their time on 1g space stations at L4 or L5. With mother and father either living on station as well, or visiting and working at such station as often as possible.

As the kids mature they can be kept on station in more of a boarding school atmosphere. Visiting family for a few weeks every few months or so. When the kids reach the end of their major growth cycle, 16-18 years of age, they can settle down on Luna finally. Maintaining their musculature through extensive exercise just like all other Lunarians.

Simple.

And nothing that humankind would not want in the first place. We will want massive complexes at L4 and L5 for industrial purposes.

Mars will be more easy with the heavier gravity than Luna. Less extensive measures will have to be taken.

Just as those that left Europe to seek a new world. So I also want to get out there and leave it all behind.
I am not a professional. Just a rational amateur dreaming of mankind exploiting the universe.

Offline marsavian

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #30 on: 02/12/2010 10:38 am »
It appears you desire to be something other than human. Just because humans want to go into space doesn't necessarily mean they want to give up their human heritage. I for one do not - not in this lifetime anyway. You seem to be talking science fiction - not science.

If you believe in evolution we are all descended from fish anyway. Those fish that left the sea to walk on land wanted to go and adapt to a different environment, should they have been stopped to do so by the other fish ? ;) Have you seen how high you can jump and how high you can throw on the Moon ? ;) 1/6g may not be such an impediment and will probably lead to much bigger massive humans if they spent all their lives there and procreated there if that is what they choose to do. If there is a demand for a 1g environment then it will be built but most I guess will prefer the difference of 1/6 g.

Actually I see a 1/6 g raised human being a lighter and more frail creature then it's Earth raised counterpart.
Less muscle and bone mass.

But then this was Gerard K. O'Neill's argument for space colonies as places to live vs planetary surface colonies the kids could visit Earth.

Of course I expect in the future there will be groups who will chose to live on other worlds and will simply adapt to them as well as groups who will prefer to recreate an Earth type habitat.


The lower gravity will mean less stress on the heart and other organs and bone structures which are normally weight limited. I'm sure there will be plenty of exercise too breaking all Earth strength records, perhaps rich really obese people should go there to exercise off their weight and maybe even live and procreate ;). There you are, a rough business model already ;).
« Last Edit: 02/12/2010 10:52 am by marsavian »

Offline Rhyshaelkan

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #31 on: 02/12/2010 11:51 am »
Two models.

1. Robin-hood steals from the rich and gives to those more deserving.

I dislike avarice. But rich people can be a boon. Provide fine dining and recreation on Luna for extravagant prices, so that people can say "I walked on the Moon. I flew by human powered flight. I drank Lunar-booze. See how cool and special I am?" All the while taking such monies and putting towards your own dreams of stellar domination. Opening the Universe to pioneers.

2. Robin-hood steals from the rich, to make himself rich.

Kinda like the above. But with you lording it over others, blah blah. Stellar domination only to stroke your own ego, blah blah.

I hope to go for option one =)
I am not a professional. Just a rational amateur dreaming of mankind exploiting the universe.

Offline spacenut

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #32 on: 02/12/2010 01:12 pm »
I read somewhere that 1,000' diameter space station can spin 1 rpm and get 1g.  That is not too bad.  It doesn't have to be a wheel or cylinder.  It can be long spokes around a central 0g hub, with varying degrees of g force for training for moon or Mars missions.

Offline Rhyshaelkan

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Re: Creating One-Earth-Gravity Habitats on the Moon, Mars...
« Reply #33 on: 02/12/2010 01:26 pm »
http://www.spacefuture.com/archive/artificial_gravity_and_the_architecture_of_orbital_habitats.shtml

Here is a link for that. In short, the bigger the ring the slower it has to spin, the more comfort to the passenger.

And you were pretty right-on with the 1000m(Edit: oops 1000m not 1000') @1rpm = 1 g

Though long, that whole article is a good read. A paragraph of note:

"Artificial gravity arises from centripetal acceleration in rotating environments. Experiments have demonstrated its potential for preserving health in orbit. In 1977 aboard the Soviet satellite Cosmos 936, rats exposed to centrifugation were significantly healthier than non-centrifuged control animals. Centrifugation preserved red blood cells, bone minerals, bone structure and mechanical properties [4]. In 1985 aboard Spacelab D-1, centrifugation preserved T-cell function [16]."

I wonder at what g those rats were spun? If even mild g was used then life and health on the Lunar surface might not be detrimental, and actually beneficial. Once again, with a proper exercise regimen.


The article on the rats.

http://lis.arc.nasa.gov/lis/Programs/Cosmos/Cosmos_936/Cosmos_936.html
« Last Edit: 02/16/2010 02:42 pm by Rhyshaelkan »
I am not a professional. Just a rational amateur dreaming of mankind exploiting the universe.

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