Blue Origin New Glenn Thread 2: Updates and Discussion

[Robert_the_Doll]

https://twitter.com/davill/status/1999575473563844646

Another GS2 ready to fly. We completed a 15-second hotfire with serial number 4 today. Incredible work by our New Glenn team ramping GS2 production.

[Tywin]

Every new launch a lot faster...the race is accelerating!!

[leeloodallasmultipass]

We should see back to back gs2 hotfires if the production numbers are correct.

[Jim]

I may have this wrong, but I thought there was a continuum of paths to NSSL approval. All based on flights vs info provided to the government.

On the short end of the stick was two flights with the government knee deep in your design plans. On the other end was something like 15 successful flights with almost no information.

Has blue just been tracked to the 4 flights because they, unlike ULA, had done a lot of work without .gov involvement? I am curious if this is BOs choice or if this is a .gov mandate.

Info on all flights is provided to the gov't.   4 flight is more likely due to first 4 orbital flights ever.

[hkultala]

Increasing the trust of BE-4 and methane/lox second stage with one BE-4 is way better direction to upgrade NG than 9x2 or 9x4. the rocket will be cheaper to build and operate and easier to make second stage reusable.

Have you looked up the ISP of BE-4 vs BE-3?
BE-3U: 4.36 km/s
BE-4: 3.3 km/s

That's right out of left field with multiple unsupported assertions.
But yes, yes they are increasing the thrust of the BE-4. Rejoice.

This is comparing a sea level BE-4 to a vacuum engine BE-3U which is hydrolox.  A BE-4U would have better ISP and use a cheaper fuel and have more thrust for LEO payloads.  One BE-4U engine may be a lot cheaper than four BE-3U's also.  We are just saying.  This was Bezo's original plan.

BE-4U would have isp of something like 3.6 km/s, still MUCH worse than BE-3U.

Also, single BE-4U would have considerably LESS thrust, not more thrust than 4 BE-3U's.

BE-3U will soon have thrust of about 100 tonnes, BE-4 will soon be about 300 tonnes (and BE-4U could have about 10% improvement in vacuum with big bell, so about 330 tonnes). 4*100 is much more than 330.

Also, single BE-4U would not be "much" cheaper. It might be slightly cheaper though.

There are good reasons why they abandoned their original plan.

[StraumliBlight]

SFN: Blue Origin halfway through 4-flight certification to allow launch of national security missions [Dec 13]

However, once the required certification flights are accomplished, Garrant said there will be data review and other analysis needed before Blue Origin gets the green light to fly national security payloads.

“It’s a collaborative effort with the government and the launch service provider. So absolutely, after the fourth launch, it won’t be like the next day they get certified,” Garrant said. “There’ll be a significant amount of review, but at the same time, we won’t take a long time. If the next two flights go as well as the first two flights go, I anticipate timely and quick certification.”

[sstli2]

Job posting from yesterday: Technical Designer III - GS3

A third stage is clearly more than just an idea.

[leeloodallasmultipass]

Those numbers for 9x4 may not be possible without another stage. Especially GEO numbers. Tory being there will probaby help with that.

[deltaV]

Those numbers for 9x4 may not be possible without another stage. Especially GEO numbers. Tory being there will probaby help with that.

Yes, this was discussed in the 9x4 thread and the conclusion was there was a third stage of some sort.

[woods170]

Those numbers for 9x4 may not be possible without another stage. Especially GEO numbers. Tory being there will probaby help with that.

Yes, this was discussed in the 9x4 thread and the conclusion was there was a third stage of some sort.

Yeah... Blue has come to the same conclusion as ESA and ArianeGroup did almost a year ago: to REALLY take advantage of a more potent booster stage, you would be well advised to add a kick-stage aka third stage. ESA and ArianeGroup are already working to increase the "Ooomph" provided by the Ariane 6 SRBs. And that gave them the additional upmass numbers needed to add the "Astris" kick-stage.

Blue is now doing something similar for New Glenn 9x4.

Fun Fact: the "Astris" name for the Ariane 6 third stage (pardon me: kick stage) goes all the way back to Europe's first (and failed) attempt to develop an orbital launcher, in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The third stage of the Europa launch vehicle was named "Astris". I sincerely hope that Ariane 6 "Astris" will be way more successful than Europa "Astris". The Europa "Astris" failed two out of the three times it was launched.

[DrTadd]

Question. For a recoverable booster, isn't there a limit on how hard you can push the booster in the total velocity package and still get recovery? IIRC, the second flight I read that BO had put more of the process onto the second stage so the first stage would have an easier time of it to better the chances of recovery.

If you build a booster that gets too high or too fast then you have the overall reentry problem which adds all the mass needed for that process (heat shielding or a lotta extra fuel to power down).

So if you have to watch your overall total speed for that first stage, what do you optimize for? Lift mass so you can get those bigger later stages to that initial separation speed?

[sdsds]

Question. For a recoverable booster, isn't there a limit on how hard you can push the booster in the total velocity package and still get recovery?

Looking at the total system there's also a constraint around transit time barging the stage back from the down-range recovery location. Time on a barge is time not flying payloads so it seems possible that delivering maximum payload to orbit means landing on barges close to shore. Conceivably it could even make sense to devote propellant to a boost-back burn!

[tottaway22]

From the Secretary of War visit highlight video today. To me appears to show 2 aft modules, 2 GS2 tanks, 2 Blue Ring Payload adapters. Unless someone has other insight.

https://x.com/blueorigin/status/2018477072595738900?s=46&t=W8LaCKl55QRTw6lLk-BDig

[sstli2]

The most interesting part is that is the first time we've seen a GS1 transfer tube.

To me appears to show 2 aft modules

One with legs, no less. That has to be the GS1-3 aft module, with the other aft module being for GS1-4.

2 GS2 tanks

As GS2-5 is complete and GS2-6 is in final assembly, those are likely the GS2-7 and GS2-8 tanks.

2 Blue Ring Payload adapters

Just payload adapters, nothing to do with Blue Ring per se.

[Robert_the_Doll]

One with legs, no less. That has to be the GS1-3 aft module, with the other aft module being for GS1-4.

The two GS1 aft modules seen in image 3 with the downcomer pipe are interesting in that neither of them are the one seen with gear down behind Hegseth during his speech as they still are ensconced inside their work platforms, and even more interesting is that the one on the right side you can just get a glimpse of landing gear installed (hinge is just visible above the downcomer). Unfortunately, the platforms block the view of the small door panel and the downcomer blocks most of the lower skirt area so we cannot tell how far along the installation is at this point.

[sstli2]

One with legs, no less. That has to be the GS1-3 aft module, with the other aft module being for GS1-4.

The two GS1 aft modules seen in image 3 with the downcomer pipe are interesting in that neither of them are the one seen with gear down behind Hegseth during his speech

I believe the one on the left is a forward module, not an aft module, and that the position of these modules is exactly the same as my previous post here, which I've re-attached below, minus the now-departed GS1-3 forward module.

[sstli2]

As another context clue in support of the above, we can see a GS1 transfer tube in the same location in the scrubbed NG-2 broadcast. See below.

[tottaway22]

This is Blue Origin's LC-36 Pad undergoing GSE testing in bottom right? Live now on NSF YouTube. Maybe getting ready for operations?

[Robert_the_Doll]

This is Blue Origin's LC-36 Pad undergoing GSE testing in bottom right? Live now on NSF YouTube. Maybe getting ready for operations?

The GS1-3 forward module is due to be tested out there soon.

[sstli2]

Starshipdown, your now-deleted comment was useful, because I went back to the actual NG-2 broadcast and noticed there is in fact a third aft module present, i.e. the GS1-5 aft section:



So I could be wrong. The module on the left in the picture of Hegseth and Bezos could be the GS1-4 forward section, or it could be the GS1-5 aft section. The presence of external scaffolding is not conclusive because they would both need it for the application of Comet thermal protection.