Author Topic: NASA's Bolden Speaks on Future Mars Mission, Chinese Moon Landing  (Read 20471 times)

Offline Prober

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« Last Edit: 08/03/2012 01:32 am by Chris Bergin »
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

Offline Rocket Science

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"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline robertross

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In other words: '...we (United States) cannot afford to go it alone'
« Last Edit: 08/03/2012 01:32 am by Chris Bergin »

Offline QuantumG

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Nothing new here.. this has been the official line since he took office back in 2009.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Go4TLI

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In other words: '...we (United States) cannot afford to go it alone'


Actually we could. It's just there is no desire and there is an administration in power that talks a big game but couldn't lead out of a wet paper bag
« Last Edit: 08/03/2012 01:33 am by Chris Bergin »

Offline robertross

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In other words: '...we (United States) cannot afford to go it alone'


Actually we could. It's just there is no desire and there is an administration in power that talks a big game but couldn't lead out of a wet paper bag

I'm sorry, but I disagree with both assertions, but I won't create a food fight over this. Suffice to say the US is drowning in debt, the US administration is in reality a 2-headed beast (Senate & House) that can't seem to agree on anything for the good of its country (especially now with the adminstration in a 'lame duck' position). With international partners, like with the ISS, it can leverage on commitments that would be created to carry the momentum forward.

And in the grand scheme of things, China can be the biggest funder of the project (it would essentially be their money anyway wrt the USA portion).
« Last Edit: 08/03/2012 01:33 am by Chris Bergin »

Offline Prober

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I’m very disappointed in Charlie.  In the video he said he would do what the President wants.  Believe Charlie should review the wording of the oath he took.

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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant..." --Isoroku Yamamoto

Offline QuantumG

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I’m very disappointed in Charlie.  In the video he said he would do what the President wants.  Believe Charlie should review the wording of the oath he took.

Also not news... he's been saying that since 2009 too.

Where have you been? I'll give you another tidbit: Bolden said he didn't want to be NASA administrator and the only reason he took the job is so he could inspire his kids. He's said similar things since.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline notsorandom

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In other words: '...we (United States) cannot afford to go it alone'


Actually we could. It's just there is no desire and there is an administration in power that talks a big game but couldn't lead out of a wet paper bag

I'm sorry, but I disagree with both assertions, but I won't create a food fight over this. Suffice to say the US is drowning in debt, the US administration is in reality a 2-headed beast (Senate & House) that can't seem to agree on anything for the good of its country (especially now with the adminstration in a 'lame duck' position). With international partners, like with the ISS, it can leverage on commitments that would be created to carry the momentum forward.

And in the grand scheme of things, China can be the biggest funder of the project (it would essentially be their money anyway wrt the USA portion).
In US politics the administration usually refers to the executive branch. Which is headed by the president and includes the heads of government agencies, like the administrator and deputy administrator.

I don't think the debt argument is really valid when talking about NASA for two reasons. First if NASA's budget were totally cut or doubled it would make no difference to the national debt. The money we are talking about here in relation to the debt is essentially lost in the noise, on the level of a minor rounding error. Secondly funding NASA is an investment, a way to grow and generate wealth. Strategic long term investments in the economy are exactly how we need to be tacking the debt.

Offline Gene DiGennaro

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It's not the fact that Bolden wishes to go to Mars as part of an international effort. We can look back as far as the late 70s and early 80s for co-op Mars missions. What bothers me most about Bolden's statements is the total lack of leadership. Here is the quote:

"The U.S. cannot always be the leader, but we can be the inspirational leader through international cooperation"

Disgusting...I guess they also teach the art of retreat in the USMC.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Last year, around the time of STS-135, I had about one minute to talk with Charlie Bolden. I said to him; "Sir, I sure hope you get adequate support and funding for Orion, SLS and Commercial Space as well".

He smiled nervously, made a prayer-like gesture with his hands and whispered:

"I hope so, too!"

****************************************************

I wouldn't be surprised if the Good General is merely following his mandated orders these days. But for a moment, a candid moment slipped out. I feel genuinely sorry for him at times...  :(
« Last Edit: 08/03/2012 02:26 pm by MATTBLAK »
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Offline JohnFornaro

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In other words: '...we (United States) cannot afford to go it alone'

Actually we could. It's just there is no desire and there is an administration in power that talks a big game but couldn't lead out of a wet paper bag.

Actually, we could, as you say.  There is no will to succeed at HSF in this administration or the proposed administration.  The money is there; it is misallocated.

What bothers me most about Bolden's statements is the total lack of leadership. Here is the quote:

"The U.S. cannot always be the leader, but we can be the inspirational leader through international cooperation"

Neither is there adequate leadership in a broad sense, and this is not likely to change either.

The good news, I think, would be for commercial space entities to keep their noses to the grindstone, and launch successfully time after time.  At least there's money and sufficient leadership for this to take place.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline vulture4

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In other words: '...we (United States) cannot afford to go it alone'


Actually we could. It's just there is no desire and there is an administration in power that talks a big game but couldn't lead out of a wet paper bag

The Obama Administration is using unfettered private industry, innovation, competition, efficiency, and cost control to develop a sustainable market for human spaceflight. Every element of CCP embodies principles Republicans support. And the program is affordable and would benefit commercial satellite launch industry, creating jobs and exports.

In contrast Constellation/SLS/Orion is a huge government monolith with no prospect of creating income for American companies. It has consistently overrun its budget and is years behind. Even lunar landing with this technology cannot be funded under the Ryan budget. John McCain said it would cost at least $260B and possibly $600B, and was not a dream, but an illusion. Romney said he would fire anyone proposing a moon base.

As Elon Musk pointed out, Republicans are against commercial space, not because it conflicts with their values (indeed it exemplifies them. Republicans are against it for one reason; because Mr. Obama is for it.

Offline Chris Bergin

I didn't fancy getting involved in this latest Bolden boo boo, but....

In contrast Constellation/SLS/Orion is a huge government monolith with no prospect of creating income for American companies. It has consistently overrun its budget and is years behind.

Firstly, Constellation's overrun was because its budget was continually reduced. Are you going to say SpaceX are "overunning" as their FOC date has slipped due to lower CCDev funding? Or are you just being negative about vehicles with NASA on the side of them? ;)

Secondly, SLS is not overrunning, so that's false. It's one year in on its inception date and already into PDR. Absolute fact it's not overrunning and even in this uncertain funding cycle.

Thirdy, "no prospect of creating income for American companies". What? Since when were the likes of Boeing, ATK, PW&R, etc not American companies. You lost me on that point! ;)
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Offline Blackstar

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The Obama Administration is using unfettered private industry

Can you explain what "unfettered" means with reference to ITAR?

Offline tigerade

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Actually we could. It's just there is no desire and there is an administration in power that talks a big game but couldn't lead out of a wet paper bag

Sounds just like the last administration.  But my previous point still hands, expecting leadership from Washington is a huge problem.  We'll never get another Jack Kennedy saying "We choose to go to the moon".  Modern politicians are apathetic or ignorant about spaceflight (usually both).  So the expectation that we may switch parties or getting another man in the White House will change things, is not credible.  We the people, should demand an American presence in space and money spent on exploration.  It has to come from us, not them.

Offline QuantumG

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We'll never get another Jack Kennedy saying "We choose to go to the moon".  Modern politicians are apathetic or ignorant about spaceflight (usually both).

So was JFK. His proclamation was about geopolitics, not space.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline MATTBLAK

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I've actually heard an audio clip of Jack Kennedy saying; "I'm not all that interested in Space" from a documentary I saw once. Some people don't believe he said it, but unless it was a dramatization, it seemed genuine.

EDIT: Aha! A couple sources - http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/000099.html

http://history.nasa.gov/JFK-Webbconv/pages/transcript.pdf
« Last Edit: 08/06/2012 11:51 am by MATTBLAK »
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Offline apollolanding

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JFK knew an opportunity to fight a proxy war with the Soviets when he saw one.  Any fascination or fanaticism (if it ever truely existed) was cultivated by James Webb's brilliance as a lobbiest/Beltway insider and Wehner von Braun's ability to not only build rockets but convince America that we needed a space program.

Kennedy spoke of the moon not as a valuable destination but as a rally point:

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

And he also knew a jobs program/economic stimulus to big industry and how to sell it to the locals:

"And finally, the space effort itself, while still in its infancy, has already created a great number of new companies, and tens of thousands of new jobs. Space and related industries are generating new demands in investment and skilled personnel, and this city and this State, and this region, will share greatly in this growth."

Where today's politicians fail is how they focus on only how NASA affects their constituancy, not the national or global economic & technological picture.  JFK was lucky to bet on the right horse but sadly not around to see it cross the line. 
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Offline ChileVerde

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We'll never get another Jack Kennedy saying "We choose to go to the moon".  Modern politicians are apathetic or ignorant about spaceflight (usually both).

So was JFK. His proclamation was about geopolitics, not space.


As, in fact, the paragraph the "I’m not that interested in space" remark is embedded in makes abundantly clear. It also shows that the "not that interested" is relative to the amount of money being spent on Apollo. I.e. he was interested ("I think it's good"), just not that interested.

Edit: Adds comments and the paragraph in question. Italics in the paragraph in the original.

Quote
http://history.nasa.gov/JFK-Webbconv/pages/transcript.pdf

President Kennedy: (snip) But I do think we ought get it, you know, really clear that the policy ought to be that this is the top-priority program of the Agency, and one of the two things, except for defense, the top priority of the United States government. I think that that is the position we ought to take. Now, this may not change anything about that schedule, but at least we ought to be clear, otherwise we shouldn’t be spending this kind of money because I’m not that interested in space. I think it’s good; I think we ought to know about it; we’re ready to spend reasonable amounts ofmoney. But we’re talking about these fantastic expenditures which wreck our budget and all these other domestic programs and the only justification for it, in my opinion, to do it in this time or fashion, is because we hope to beat them and demonstrate that starting behind, as we did by a couple years, by God, we passed them.

Even more edit: The audio of the passage is here

http://whitehousetapes.net/clip/john-kennedy-james-webb-robert-seamans-hugh-dryden-jerome-wiesner-fly-me-moon

« Last Edit: 08/06/2012 11:10 pm by ChileVerde »
"I can’t tell you which asteroid, but there will be one in 2025," Bolden asserted.

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