Author Topic: Europa Clipper  (Read 225072 times)

Online catdlr

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #680 on: 02/08/2024 02:02 am »
Very sad and I feel for everyone experiencing this uncertainty and especially for those who will need to find new jobs.

SpaceX, Relativity, and The Aerospace Corporation have their main locations in the Los Angeles area, in Hawthorne, Long Beach, and El Segundo respectively. SpaceX alone has around 400 openings in Hawthorne on https://www.spacex.com/careers/jobs/?location=hawthorne%252C%2520ca. It looks like all three companies are about an hour from JPL so people who get jobs at those companies may not need to move depending on where they live and how long of a commute they're willing to tolerate.

Don't forget Rocket Lab, they are in Long Beach adjacent to Relativity, Boeing Satellite Systems in El Segundo, Northrup-Grumman Space Division in Redondo Beach, Raytheon in El Segundo,  Millennium Space Systems in El Segundo (Across from the LA Space Force Base), Varda Space in El Segundo, Slingshot Space, to name a few more. 

Don't give up, try something different, sometimes change is what you need and you'll find your "Happy" job at another location.
« Last Edit: 02/08/2024 02:25 am by catdlr »
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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #681 on: 02/08/2024 01:51 pm »
It looks like all three companies are about an hour from JPL so people who get jobs at those companies may not need to move depending on where they live and how long of a commute they're willing to tolerate.

As somebody who is very familiar with the LA area, "about an hour" can have a huge error bar. In rush hour traffic, that can be 2-3 hours. That said, there is a lot more work from home, so everything depends. Also, somebody at JPL does not have to go work for an aerospace companies. There are other tech industries and universities.

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #682 on: 02/08/2024 03:08 pm »
It looks like all three companies are about an hour from JPL so people who get jobs at those companies may not need to move depending on where they live and how long of a commute they're willing to tolerate.

As somebody who is very familiar with the LA area, "about an hour" can have a huge error bar. In rush hour traffic, that can be 2-3 hours. That said, there is a lot more work from home, so everything depends. Also, somebody at JPL does not have to go work for an aerospace companies. There are other tech industries and universities.

Yep. I live 15 miles from JPL and it could easily take 50 minutes to get there in heavy freeway traffic.
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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #683 on: 02/08/2024 04:31 pm »
Yep. I live 15 miles from JPL and it could easily take 50 minutes to get there in heavy freeway traffic.

I once drove from Irvine (south of LA) to Pasadena in 60 minutes. Middle of the day, no traffic. A friend of mine asked if I time traveled on the freeway.

But to bring this back on topic... Europa Clipper will be driven along roads to an airport.

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Offline FossilDS

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #685 on: 02/09/2024 09:24 pm »
https://twitter.com/MasterActual/status/1755746461512528377/photo/1

I'm sorry that I'm taking the thread off topic again, but the guy in the picture actually got laid off in recent days- I thought it was important to state this.

To many, including myself, working at JPL would be the culmination of a childhood dream. My heart breaks for those who achieved that dream only for it to be ripped away in such a brutal manner, not to mention the damage to space science this will cause.

Hoping all affected will find new employment opportunities just as fulfilling as their last.

Offline redliox

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #686 on: 02/11/2024 04:54 am »
I'm sorry that I'm taking the thread off topic again, but the guy in the picture actually got laid off in recent days- I thought it was important to state this.

To many, including myself, working at JPL would be the culmination of a childhood dream. My heart breaks for those who achieved that dream only for it to be ripped away in such a brutal manner, not to mention the damage to space science this will cause.

When I read "The Mission" by David Brown it was eye-opening to lean about the human factor within JPL.  In addition to these layoffs, I know many of the enthusiasts and engineers here recall the horrible dry spell of the 1980s, and as a child of said '80s I can testify it was extremely disheartening to learn there wasn't anything concrete to the  Space Exploration Initiative.  The human factor is as involved as the technical factor for 'Clipper, so it's worth a footnote in this thread.

If I can make the great leap to profession, I will say I'll keep the '80s and these layoffs in mind in my career choices.

Finally, I seem to recall a quote from "The Mission" about how it's the first inch off the launch pad that's the hardest of the mission, and we need to be wary that....'Clipper hasn't launched...yet.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2024 04:55 am by redliox »
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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #687 on: 02/11/2024 09:35 am »
The layoffs at JPL are sad (to say the least) and I wish they hadn't have happened, but that's not really the topic of this thread. But, since we're all spilling our guts here, anyway, I just wanted to say that if there was ONE (uncrewed) launch I really hope SpaceX doesn't mess up - it's this one.

Offline redliox

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #688 on: 02/11/2024 09:42 pm »
The layoffs at JPL are sad (to say the least) and I wish they hadn't have happened, but that's not really the topic of this thread. But, since we're all spilling our guts here, anyway, I just wanted to say that if there was ONE (uncrewed) launch I really hope SpaceX doesn't mess up - it's this one.

Oh agreed.  How many Falcon Heavies have been launched thus far?  They haven't lost a payload yet, and the Falcon 9s encounter more issues landing rather than delivering their payloads, with well over 200 perfectly successful flights.  Those are some encouraging statistics in 'Clipper's favor.
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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #689 on: 02/11/2024 10:17 pm »
The layoffs at JPL are sad (to say the least) and I wish they hadn't have happened, but that's not really the topic of this thread. But, since we're all spilling our guts here, anyway, I just wanted to say that if there was ONE (uncrewed) launch I really hope SpaceX doesn't mess up - it's this one.

Oh agreed.  How many Falcon Heavies have been launched thus far?

Nine FH have launched thus far. All delivered their payloads successfully.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_Heavy

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #690 on: 02/12/2024 12:31 pm »
The layoffs at JPL are sad (to say the least) and I wish they hadn't have happened, but that's not really the topic of this thread. But, since we're all spilling our guts here, anyway, I just wanted to say that if there was ONE (uncrewed) launch I really hope SpaceX doesn't mess up - it's this one.

Oh agreed.  How many Falcon Heavies have been launched thus far?

Less than 10, but the part that's troubling me the most is that only 1 or 2 of those so far have been fully expendable, which is the Europa Clipper config. Yes, the F9, as a single propulsion unit has been demonstrated to be the most reliable modern launch vehicle by any measure, but a Falcon Heavy is an entirely different beast with its dynamics.

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #691 on: 02/12/2024 04:27 pm »
The layoffs at JPL are sad (to say the least) and I wish they hadn't have happened, but that's not really the topic of this thread. But, since we're all spilling our guts here, anyway, I just wanted to say that if there was ONE (uncrewed) launch I really hope SpaceX doesn't mess up - it's this one.

Oh agreed.  How many Falcon Heavies have been launched thus far?
Less than 10, but the part that's troubling me the most is that only 1 or 2 of those so far have been fully expendable, which is the Europa Clipper config. Yes, the F9, as a single propulsion unit has been demonstrated to be the most reliable modern launch vehicle by any measure, but a Falcon Heavy is an entirely different beast with its dynamics.
Which LV should they use instead?

Offline deltaV

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #692 on: 02/12/2024 05:20 pm »
Which LV should they use instead?

Of course all the alternative launchers are even less proven. ugordan never stated or implied there was a better alternative.

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #693 on: 02/12/2024 06:51 pm »
The layoffs at JPL are sad (to say the least) and I wish they hadn't have happened, but that's not really the topic of this thread. But, since we're all spilling our guts here, anyway, I just wanted to say that if there was ONE (uncrewed) launch I really hope SpaceX doesn't mess up - it's this one.

Oh agreed.  How many Falcon Heavies have been launched thus far?

Less than 10, but the part that's troubling me the most is that only 1 or 2 of those so far have been fully expendable, which is the Europa Clipper config. Yes, the F9, as a single propulsion unit has been demonstrated to be the most reliable modern launch vehicle by any measure, but a Falcon Heavy is an entirely different beast with its dynamics.
OK, we are apparently trying to identify what is most likely to degrade or kill the mission. You are focusing on a potential problem associated with this particular FH configuration, and of  course you may be correct. I would be more concerned about solar array and antenna deployment problems, given recent BLEO experiences. With no inside information, my concern has no particular validity. FH has launched 9 times. Its configurations are quite similar to each other. Europa Clipper has never launched before, so it's actual characteristics have not been validated in space.

Online catdlr

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #694 on: 02/12/2024 08:04 pm »
This post has an article link.

https://twitter.com/NASA_LSP/status/1757145250227708403

Quote
#ICYMI - @EuropaClipper's instruments are all on board!🛰️

With less than nine months until launch, Europa Clipper has passed a major milestone: the science instruments have been added to the massive spacecraft, which is being assembled at @NASAJPL.

Article
« Last Edit: 02/12/2024 08:05 pm by catdlr »
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Online catdlr

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #695 on: 02/12/2024 08:08 pm »
https://twitter.com/NASA_LSP/status/1757145811077476622

Quote
Set to launch in October on a @SpaceX Falcon Heavy from Kennedy Space Center, the spacecraft will head to Jupiterís ice-encased moon Europa, where a salty ocean beneath the frozen surface may hold conditions suitable for life.
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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #696 on: 02/13/2024 12:04 am »
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11214-023-01036-z

Planned Geological Investigations of the Europa Clipper Mission

    Open access
    Published: 12 February 2024



Paper attached.

Offline Jim

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #697 on: 02/13/2024 01:24 pm »
Europa Clipper has never launched before, so it's actual characteristics have not been validated in space.

that would be wrong.  Launch is more risky
« Last Edit: 02/13/2024 01:25 pm by Jim »

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #698 on: 02/13/2024 04:18 pm »
The layoffs at JPL are sad (to say the least) and I wish they hadn't have happened, but that's not really the topic of this thread. But, since we're all spilling our guts here, anyway, I just wanted to say that if there was ONE (uncrewed) launch I really hope SpaceX doesn't mess up - it's this one.

Oh agreed.  How many Falcon Heavies have been launched thus far?
Less than 10, but the part that's troubling me the most is that only 1 or 2 of those so far have been fully expendable, which is the Europa Clipper config. Yes, the F9, as a single propulsion unit has been demonstrated to be the most reliable modern launch vehicle by any measure, but a Falcon Heavy is an entirely different beast with its dynamics.
Which LV should they use instead?

The fact that I'm slightly concerned about specific LV config flight history does not imply that I think it should have gone onto another vehicle.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #699 on: 02/13/2024 10:33 pm »
The layoffs at JPL are sad (to say the least) and I wish they hadn't have happened, but that's not really the topic of this thread. But, since we're all spilling our guts here, anyway, I just wanted to say that if there was ONE (uncrewed) launch I really hope SpaceX doesn't mess up - it's this one.

Oh agreed.  How many Falcon Heavies have been launched thus far?
Less than 10, but the part that's troubling me the most is that only 1 or 2 of those so far have been fully expendable, which is the Europa Clipper config. Yes, the F9, as a single propulsion unit has been demonstrated to be the most reliable modern launch vehicle by any measure, but a Falcon Heavy is an entirely different beast with its dynamics.
Which LV should they use instead?

The fact that I'm slightly concerned about specific LV config flight history does not imply that I think it should have gone onto another vehicle.

The only plausible alternate launcher is the Delta IV Heavy with a kick stage, IMO. However it is pricey and somewhat lacking in performance when compared to the Falcon Heavy.

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