Author Topic: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan  (Read 1079792 times)

Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3060 on: 02/05/2024 04:26 pm »
https://twitter.com/Harry__Stranger/status/1754492212640145626
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And there's a New Glenn fairing visible inside of the integration facility at LC-36 right now via @NASASpaceflight
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Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3061 on: 02/05/2024 08:58 pm »
Any updates on the status of this BO ASDS?

LAD Services' website shows some low resolution photos of their current projects without descriptions, and satellite imagery of the Louisiana shipyard (where the ASDS is under construction) was updated in the last month but only an old barge is visible.

However, the Louisiana site launched a MARMAC 305 barge in September, with its build contract awarded in December 2022, after Blue Origin announced the switch. Also of note, MARMAC 306 and 307 are nearing completion.

Offline DrTadd

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3062 on: 02/06/2024 01:06 pm »
What are the odds that BO will attempt to fly a booster by itself?

But I also get working out reuse as a 'bonus' just by getting payloads to orbit considering the early rockets one shots.

Anyone hazard a guess as to what % the booster is in total launch cost?

Offline GreenShrike

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3063 on: 02/06/2024 03:09 pm »
Anyone hazard a guess as to what % the booster is in total launch cost?


Elon's long ago break-down of F9's cost went like this: 60% booster, 20% 2nd stage, 10% fairing, 10% everything else.

However, I'd venture that a hydrolox second stage with two engines dissimilar from the booster's engines would be proportionally more of the overall cost than F9's much simpler (relatively speaking) kerolox second stage.
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Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3064 on: 02/12/2024 03:37 am »
https://twitter.com/_mgde_/status/1756898784691315136
Quote
While most everyone were occupied, @blueorigin
 quietly rolled their New Glenn first stage pathfinder out to the launch mount at LC-36, mated to a second stage simulator.

Presumed fit checks and additional testing commencing soon.



Offline Rakietwawka2021

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3065 on: 02/12/2024 08:54 am »
I was hoping that they would roll out flight hardware, not mockup

Offline rpapo

I was hoping that they would roll out flight hardware, not mockup
If it's a "pathfinder" it should be a relatively high fidelity version, close to the final version.  Otherwise the fit tests would not be worth all that much.  Kind of like the relationship between the space shuttles Enterprise and Columbia.
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Online meekGee

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3067 on: 02/12/2024 10:33 am »
I was hoping that they would roll out flight hardware, not mockup
It's not a mockup, not by common usage of the term.

It's a high fidelity pathfinder, basically the "flight minus one" unit, and there's got to be one like that made, and it's a useful thing too

We know the flight unit is in advanced stages too.

I'm not sure about actual flight this year, but I'll buy one towards end of year or beginning of next.

It'll be disappointing if that doesn't happen.
« Last Edit: 02/12/2024 02:01 pm by meekGee »
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Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3068 on: 02/12/2024 01:51 pm »
I was hoping that they would roll out flight hardware, not mockup

What would you expect them to do when this is the first time that the TE has ever carried something that is the expected mass and dimensions it is designed to? If something fails on the TE, they would risk losing critical hardware, but here they just lose boilerplate articles.

If all goes well, they will no doubt carry the high-fidelity hardware to the pad.

Offline ZachF

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3069 on: 02/12/2024 06:25 pm »
Anyone hazard a guess as to what % the booster is in total launch cost?


Elon's long ago break-down of F9's cost went like this: 60% booster, 20% 2nd stage, 10% fairing, 10% everything else.

However, I'd venture that a hydrolox second stage with two engines dissimilar from the booster's engines would be proportionally more of the overall cost than F9's much simpler (relatively speaking) kerolox second stage.

I would bet money that a New Glenn booster easily costs above $100 million and the second stage costs more than an F9 booster. The fairings probably cost 2-3x more than an F9 fairing.

It’s big…
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Offline whitelancer64

Anyone hazard a guess as to what % the booster is in total launch cost?


Elon's long ago break-down of F9's cost went like this: 60% booster, 20% 2nd stage, 10% fairing, 10% everything else.

However, I'd venture that a hydrolox second stage with two engines dissimilar from the booster's engines would be proportionally more of the overall cost than F9's much simpler (relatively speaking) kerolox second stage.

I would bet money that a New Glenn booster easily costs above $100 million and the second stage costs more than an F9 booster. The fairings probably cost 2-3x more than an F9 fairing.

It’s big…

Good reasons to recover and reuse the booster and fairings.
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Offline DrTadd

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3071 on: 02/12/2024 07:19 pm »

I would bet money that a New Glenn booster easily costs above $100 million and the second stage costs more than an F9 booster. The fairings probably cost 2-3x more than an F9 fairing.

It’s big…


That seems really expensive... are you rolling up all the dev and tool spin up costs in that figure as well? Basically a 'new' one off?

t

Offline gaballard

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3072 on: 02/12/2024 07:49 pm »
Calling it a “pathfinder” is a bit of a misnomer at this point. If it’s a high-fidelity, nearly flight-ready version of the rocket, it sounds like they’ve found their path already.
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Online meekGee

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3073 on: 02/12/2024 09:03 pm »
Calling it a “pathfinder” is a bit of a misnomer at this point. If it’s a high-fidelity, nearly flight-ready version of the rocket, it sounds like they’ve found their path already.
Yeah, fair enough.  I used the term "pipe cleaner" before - it's something you take through all your process to discover the bugs just a little bit earlier and without risking the next article which is a flight unit.

Let's see how far behind the real deal is.  Hoping to be surprised for the better, but not calling it before there's a flight rocket at the pad.
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Offline ZachF

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3074 on: 02/12/2024 10:44 pm »



That seems really expensive... are you rolling up all the dev and tool spin up costs in that figure as well? Basically a 'new' one off?

t

No. The engines alone probably cost $40m, they sell them to ULA for $16m a pair. It probably weighs over 100 tonnes empty.

Again, it’s big… and made of machined othogrid lithium-aluminum IIRC. $$$$

The upper stage is about 500m^3, that’s the same volume as an F9 booster, and the lower is like almost 1,500m^3.

(7/5)^3 = 2.744

So the PLF is probably 2.5-3x the mass, and thus 2.5-3x the cost.
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Online catdlr

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3075 on: 02/13/2024 02:43 pm »
Calling it a “pathfinder” is a bit of a misnomer at this point. If it’s a high-fidelity, nearly flight-ready version of the rocket, it sounds like they’ve found their path already.
Yeah, fair enough.  I used the term "pipe cleaner" before - it's something you take through all your process to discover the bugs just a little bit earlier and without risking the next article which is a flight unit.

Let's see how far behind the real deal is.  Hoping to be surprised for the better, but not calling it before there's a flight rocket at the pad.



"Now there are two for them":  A Pathfinder and a Simulator

Quote
The New Glenn simulator is vertical at LC-36. It is a full-size and weight representation of NG, to use for fitchecks and transport training.

The Pathfinder of the first and second stages, which features actual tankage, is still at the hangar at LC-36.

http://nsf.live/spacecoast

https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1757429378152116541
« Last Edit: 02/13/2024 02:45 pm by catdlr »
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Offline GWH

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3076 on: 02/13/2024 03:20 pm »

No. The engines alone probably cost $40m, they sell them to ULA for $16m a pair. It probably weighs over 100 tonnes empty.

Again, it’s big… and made of machined othogrid lithium-aluminum IIRC. $$$$

The upper stage is about 500m^3, that’s the same volume as an F9 booster, and the lower is like almost 1,500m^3.

(7/5)^3 = 2.744

So the PLF is probably 2.5-3x the mass, and thus 2.5-3x the cost.

Aside from the size and methods, their hardware really has the look of expensive, to my eye at least.

Compared to some other rockets that are expendable (or partially so) the first stage in particular seems reminiscent of the space shuttle in its construction. But, that's just my opinion.

Offline lightleviathan

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3077 on: 02/13/2024 04:42 pm »

No. The engines alone probably cost $40m, they sell them to ULA for $16m a pair. It probably weighs over 100 tonnes empty.

Again, it’s big… and made of machined othogrid lithium-aluminum IIRC. $$$$

The upper stage is about 500m^3, that’s the same volume as an F9 booster, and the lower is like almost 1,500m^3.

(7/5)^3 = 2.744

So the PLF is probably 2.5-3x the mass, and thus 2.5-3x the cost.

Aside from the size and methods, their hardware really has the look of expensive, to my eye at least.

Compared to some other rockets that are expendable (or partially so) the first stage in particular seems reminiscent of the space shuttle in its construction. But, that's just my opinion.

The methodology is probably "if the stage is reused >20 times, it doesn't matter how much it costs," which isn't extremely flawed reasoning

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3078 on: 02/13/2024 07:42 pm »
https://twitter.com/_mgde_/status/1757504895270215800

Quote
Today’s festivities continue!

@blueorigin has raised New Glenn’s TE vertical for the first time with stage 1 and 2 simulator hardware for the at LC-36.

Massive thanks to @StarFleetTours for bringing us out this afternoon!

📸 - @NASASpaceflight

📺 - nsf.live/spacecoast

Offline Robert_the_Doll

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Re: New Glenn: Blue Origin Announcement of Orbital Rocket Plan
« Reply #3079 on: 02/13/2024 11:58 pm »
https://twitter.com/_mgde_/status/1757568649714426130
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We cannot wait to see you fly, New Glenn.

📸 - @NASASpaceflight


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