Author Topic: UK steps up, as ESA commit to ATV Service Module on NASA's Orion  (Read 352909 times)

Offline redliox

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Your reasoning is now the other way around. Your initial point was: "what if ESA says no after EM-2". Your point is now: "what if Trump says no".
Two very different things IMO.

A wise person considers all viewpoints, or rather factors in this case.  :)

The 2 things both points have in common are the ESM's future after EM-2.  Both ESA and the new American administration are going to evaluate Orion (moreso after EM-1 actually flies), and both have the power to say "no" to the other if they chose not to pursue things further for their respective reasoning.  Given ESA finally agreed to support the ISS to 2024, in the end they'd probably endorse a 3rd ESM.  Trump is the larger wild card in the situation; overall he's probably indifferent toward NASA like past presidents but he may be critical over pork projects (he just raised a hissy-fit over Boeing's price for Airforce One; that doesn't bode well given Boeing is a large part of SLS).  However, politics can force hands and change minds...on both sides of the pond.
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
-Tigatron

Offline hektor

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Offline woods170

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Testing completed on Orion service module
Great milestone. The ESM STA will now be hooked-up to the CM STA for testing of the integrated vehicle. The first time Orion will really start looking like a spacecraft.

Offline hektor

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Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
Airbus wins EUR 200M ESA contract for 2d Service Module for NASA's Orion capsule; launch on NASA SLS in 2021. 1st model to fly in 2018.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/832180683745423360

Offline bolun

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Orion European Service Module flight model-2 logo

Orion is NASA’s next spacecraft for sending humans into space. ESA has designed and is overseeing the development of Orion’s service module, the part of the spacecraft that supplies air, electricity and propulsion.

The second mission with ESA's service module is Exploration Mission-2. This logo shows the Orion spacecraft exploring our Solar System, with the rear view highlighting the service module. The logo includes stylised depictions of Earth, the Moon and Mars – some of Orion’s destinations.

The border includes the abbreviation ESM for European Service Module. Between the distinctive solar wings on the right are the characters “fm-2”, denoting the second Flight Model for the spacecraft's second mission.

http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images/2017/02/Orion_European_Service_Module_flight_model-2_logo

Image credit: ESA

Offline yg1968

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ESA deal hinges on what Trump does with NASA’s human spaceflight plans:
http://spacenews.com/esa-deal-hinges-on-what-trump-does-with-nasas-human-spaceflight-plans/

Offline yg1968

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ESA deal hinges on what Trump does with NASA’s human spaceflight plans:
http://spacenews.com/esa-deal-hinges-on-what-trump-does-with-nasas-human-spaceflight-plans/

If this means taking the deep space habitat away from commercial companies and giving to ESA, I hate this plan.

Offline Star One

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ESA deal hinges on what Trump does with NASA’s human spaceflight plans:
http://spacenews.com/esa-deal-hinges-on-what-trump-does-with-nasas-human-spaceflight-plans/

If this means taking the deep space habitat away from commercial companies and giving to ESA, I hate this plan.

Why?

Offline Archibald

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ESA has 40 years experience with the Spacelab pressurised module
Spacelab
Spacehab
Columbus
MPLM
Cygnus
and probably some others I've forgotten.
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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ESA deal hinges on what Trump does with NASA’s human spaceflight plans:
http://spacenews.com/esa-deal-hinges-on-what-trump-does-with-nasas-human-spaceflight-plans/

That article is reporting that delivery of ESM-1 has been delayed from April to the end of this year.

"The new delay, Dettman explained Feb. 3, was due to the design review last October identifying changes to the first ESM’s flight model and suppliers delivering some subsystems for it late."
« Last Edit: 02/24/2017 06:18 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Star One

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ESA has 40 years experience with the Spacelab pressurised module
Spacelab
Spacehab
Columbus
MPLM
Cygnus
and probably some others I've forgotten.

Well precisely. It seems neutral move at best if it is the case.

Offline calapine

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From the article:

Quote
The study of new propulsion options for the service module is being done because the module uses the space shuttle’s orbital maneuvering system (OMS) engine and its supply is limited. “There are propulsion trade-offs for how to enhance [the propulsion system] for the long-term,” Parker said Feb. 3.

Parker expects the first three service modules to use the OMS, which uses the fuel monomethyl hydrazine and the oxidizer, nitrogen tetroxide and produces 6,000 pounds of thrust. ESA is considering four alternate engines, Dettman told SpaceNews in a Feb. 3 interview, but he declined to say which engines.

Which 4 engines could this be? The first two are easy to guess:

1) AJ-10 derviate
2) Aestus (used in the Ariane 5 EPS)
3) ...?
4) ...?

Offline yg1968

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ESA deal hinges on what Trump does with NASA’s human spaceflight plans:
http://spacenews.com/esa-deal-hinges-on-what-trump-does-with-nasas-human-spaceflight-plans/

If this means taking the deep space habitat away from commercial companies and giving to ESA, I hate this plan.

Why?

Because, I think that commercial habitats are necessary for a private market to emerge. I think that commercial crew and habitats go hand and hand.

Offline yg1968

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ESA deal hinges on what Trump does with NASA’s human spaceflight plans:
http://spacenews.com/esa-deal-hinges-on-what-trump-does-with-nasas-human-spaceflight-plans/

OK. I am starting to figure it out. NASA has mentioned in the past that it would like commercial companies to provide the module for the deep space habitat but that ECLSS might remain governmental. So the ECLSS could go to ESA under this plan.

Quote from: SN
While ESA’s technical studies are ongoing, one possible European cislunar technology will go to the ISS this year. “[The] advanced crew life support system,” Parker explained, “has the potential to be one of the contributing technologies for deep space exploration”.

https://twitter.com/Rob_Coppinger/status/835135592304427008
« Last Edit: 02/24/2017 04:41 pm by yg1968 »

Offline Khadgars

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ESA deal hinges on what Trump does with NASA’s human spaceflight plans:
http://spacenews.com/esa-deal-hinges-on-what-trump-does-with-nasas-human-spaceflight-plans/

OK. I am starting to figure out. NASA has mentioned in the past that it would like commercial companies to provide the module for the deep space habitat but that ECLSS might remain governmental. So the ECLSS could go to ESA under this plan.

Quote from: SN
While ESA’s technical studies are ongoing, one possible European cislunar technology will go to the ISS this year. “[The] advanced crew life support system,” Parker explained, “has the potential to be one of the contributing technologies for deep space exploration”.

https://twitter.com/Rob_Coppinger/status/835135592304427008

Ya, that is how I read it as well.  ESA wouldn't be providing the entire DSH, just some of the technologies needed like ECLSS.
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Star One

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UK steps up, as ESA commit to ATV Service Module on NASA's Orion
« Reply #756 on: 02/24/2017 03:07 pm »
ESA deal hinges on what Trump does with NASA’s human spaceflight plans:
http://spacenews.com/esa-deal-hinges-on-what-trump-does-with-nasas-human-spaceflight-plans/

If this means taking the deep space habitat away from commercial companies and giving to ESA, I hate this plan.

Why?

Because, I think that commercial habitats are necessary for a private market to emerge. I think that commercial crew and habitats go hand and hand.

I don't believe that's a justification for farming this out to private industry as it's a mistake to think there's that kind of correlation for this particular item.
« Last Edit: 02/24/2017 03:19 pm by Star One »

Offline woods170

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ESA has 40 years experience with the Spacelab pressurised module
Spacelab
Spacehab
Columbus
MPLM
Cygnus
and probably some others I've forgotten.

Spacehab, MPLM and Cygnus were/are not ESA projects:
- Spacehab is from US company Astrotech
- MPLM was provided by Italian Space Agency (ASI)
- Cygnus pressurized module is a private undertaking

Offline brickmack

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From the article:

Quote
The study of new propulsion options for the service module is being done because the module uses the space shuttle’s orbital maneuvering system (OMS) engine and its supply is limited. “There are propulsion trade-offs for how to enhance [the propulsion system] for the long-term,” Parker said Feb. 3.

Parker expects the first three service modules to use the OMS, which uses the fuel monomethyl hydrazine and the oxidizer, nitrogen tetroxide and produces 6,000 pounds of thrust. ESA is considering four alternate engines, Dettman told SpaceNews in a Feb. 3 interview, but he declined to say which engines.

Which 4 engines could this be? The first two are easy to guess:

1) AJ-10 derviate
2) Aestus (used in the Ariane 5 EPS)
3) ...?
4) ...?

Did RS-72 ever finish development? If so, that seems like it should be a strong contender. Same propellants as AJ10-190, but twice the thrust and a 24 second ISP increase, could substantially improve performance. Its a gas generator engine though, which could affect safety.

Online jacqmans

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The European propulsion system of the Orion spacecraft has been installed at NASA’s White Sands Test Facility in New Mexico and is ready for testing.
 
ESA’s contribution to NASA’s Orion spacecraft is the European Service Module, providing the spacecraft with its main power source and propulsion mechanism. Designed by Airbus Defence and Space and assembled by OHB Sweden, the Propulsion Qualification Model was shipped to the NASA’s White Sands facility in January.
 
The model is now set up and awaiting extensive testing by NASA, ESA and Airbus. Its 21 engines, including the Shuttle Orbital Manoeuvring System (OMS) engine, eight auxiliary thrusters and 12 smaller thrusters will undergo ‘hot firing’, in which all engines will be ignited.
 
Credit: NASA
Jacques :-)

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