Author Topic: MOL discussion  (Read 366887 times)

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2611
  • Liked: 499
  • Likes Given: 1096
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #440 on: 05/10/2018 03:45 pm »
http://www.nro.gov/foia/declass/mol/769.pdf

Looks like NASA was interested in the ATS- Acquisition and Tracking Scope - for Apollo, lunar and Earth missions. Resolution would have been 9 ft in Earth orbit, and 2.5 ft around the Moon. That was in 1969, after MOL cancellation.
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

Offline Michel Van

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
  • Liege, Belgium
  • Liked: 148
  • Likes Given: 170
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #441 on: 05/12/2018 12:23 pm »
Around same time
McDonnell-Douglas try to sell MOL to NASA as Civilian Space craft

As NASA orbital laboratory for 30-60-90 days  mission
proposed were Astronomy instruments or Earth resources scanning
or as Resupplied Vehicle for space station

source:

PSAC Briefing
NASA-MOL
T.J.Gordon
July 20,1968

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2611
  • Liked: 499
  • Likes Given: 1096
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #442 on: 05/12/2018 02:55 pm »
Those unfortunates NRO generals must have grown ulcers and got many sleepness nights, with Lockheed, General Electric, McDonnell douglas and NASA activism.
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15265
  • Liked: 7773
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #443 on: 05/12/2018 03:44 pm »
Around same time
McDonnell-Douglas try to sell MOL to NASA as Civilian Space craft

As NASA orbital laboratory for 30-60-90 days  mission
proposed were Astronomy instruments or Earth resources scanning
or as Resupplied Vehicle for space station

source:

PSAC Briefing
NASA-MOL
T.J.Gordon
July 20,1968

I've got the presentation slides. Need to dig them out of my files. I suspect that NASA was not too happy about that--they were focused on Apollo and AAP, and they didn't need another contractor coming in and pitching an entirely different system and spacecraft.

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15265
  • Liked: 7773
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #444 on: 05/16/2018 04:04 pm »
And I'll confess that I don't know the history of the NIIRS scale. I assume somebody has written about this in a photogrammetry journal, and I assume that before there was a NIIRS scale there was something else.

The history of US reconnaissance satellites has an interesting side-story around 1963-1965 when the CIA (under Bud Wheelon) sought to codify the relationship between resolution and what you could learn from it. There are actually quite a few documents about this, but I have not looked at them closely. Wheelon told me way back in the mid-1990s that when he started battling with NRO, one of the things he wanted to find out what what photo-interpreters could see at different resolutions, so he started a study project to assess that. Some of those documents have been declassified. But what I don't know is the broader context of that. For example, I assume that since there were photo-interpreters during WWII, they had already established some scales/tables on this subject back then, and I don't know why Wheelon needed to do it in 1963. Maybe he simply was unhappy with the quality of the approach to the subject. He was a really smart guy and probably wanted some rigor applied to it.

Here is a timeline that shows some key developments in reconnaissance resolution. The CIA study involving photo-interpreters was convened by Bud Wheelon (Wheelon told me this himself many years ago). The results of their study may have been declassified. That material could be at NARA in College Park (I might even have a copy).


« Last Edit: 05/16/2018 04:25 pm by Blackstar »

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15265
  • Liked: 7773
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #445 on: 05/17/2018 04:21 pm »
Here is a document that delves into that issue of investigating what kind of resolution was required. That process led to the FULCRUM development, which then became HEXAGON.


Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15265
  • Liked: 7773
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #446 on: 06/05/2018 02:29 pm »
So how can I find these documents?

VAFB Activation Requirements For Manned Orbiting Laboratory Program, Department of the Air Force, MOL Systems Program Office, SAFSL Exhibit 20011, 28 August 1968

VAFB Facility Requirements General Specification For The Manned Orbiting Laboratory Program, Department of the Air Force, MOL Systems Program Office, SAFSL Exhibit 10025, 7 June 1968

Anybody have any ideas?

Online catdlr

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11049
  • Enthusiast since the Redstones
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 8582
  • Likes Given: 7675
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #447 on: 07/13/2018 08:30 pm »
The Manned Orbital Laboratory (MOL)


National Reconnaissance Office
Published on Jul 13, 2018

This video provides an overview of the historical Manned Orbital Laboratory, or MOL, program, and its impact on early national reconnaissance efforts.



Tony De La Rosa, ...I'm no Feline Dealer!! I move mountains.  but I'm better known for "I think it's highly sexual." Japanese to English Translation.

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15265
  • Liked: 7773
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #448 on: 07/14/2018 02:47 am »
This was released several years ago. But this version appears to be much better quality than the previous one. They must have cleaned it up.

Offline Michel Van

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
  • Liege, Belgium
  • Liked: 148
  • Likes Given: 170
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #449 on: 07/15/2018 09:18 am »
in june 2014, some one uploaded Video about the Gemini B mock up on vimeo
in a week the Video was remove "Do Copyright Issue"
guess what its back, this time with audio !


Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
  • Istanbul Turkey and Santa Fe TEXAS USA
  • Liked: 588
  • Likes Given: 2095
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #450 on: 07/15/2018 09:53 am »
in june 2014, some one uploaded Video about the Gemini B mock up on vimeo
in a week the Video was remove "Do Copyright Issue"
guess what its back, this time with audio !



thanks  well done


Offline Ronpur50

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2117
  • Brandon, FL
  • Liked: 1028
  • Likes Given: 1884
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #452 on: 07/12/2019 11:29 pm »
New MOL book:

https://www.nro.gov/Portals/65/documents/history/csnr/programs/Spies_In_Space-Reflections_on_MOL_web.pdf?ver=2019-07-11-135535-820&timestamp=1562867746595

Very nice, although a footnote on page 19 says the tested Gemini B from the test launch is on display at Wright Patterson.  The one that flew is at Cape Canaveral.

Offline Dalhousie

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2761
  • Liked: 774
  • Likes Given: 1126
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #453 on: 07/14/2019 07:02 am »
I've been looking for a justification of the Heliox atmosphere.  Any pointers?
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended

Offline hoku

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 766
  • Liked: 660
  • Likes Given: 329
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #454 on: 07/15/2019 05:11 pm »
Apparently there was another potential motivation/application for a "military" space station (according to F-2019-00053 X-20 Dyna-soar Briefing):

----
...
+ Jan 1963 Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara directed the Air Force to determine whether Dyna-Soar or Gemini was a more feasible approach to a space-based weapon system
...
+ In November 1963 a "satellite-interceptor" design was proposed that could be used in both low and high orbits and was capable of remaining in the air for fourteen 24-hour days with a crew of two men and of intercepting satellites at altitudes of up to 1,850 km.
...
+ However, in the mid 1960s the USA Department of Defense was dominated by the opinion that a permanently operating military space station for servicing "Gemini" modified space ships would be much more effective than the X-20. On 10 October 1963 Defense Secretary McNamara ended financing for the "Dyna-Soar" program in favor of the program to create the MOL (Manned Orbiting Laboratory) orbiting station.

---
https://www.nro.gov/Portals/65/documents/foia/declass/ForAll/051719/F-2019-00053_C05118816.pdf

Offline Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15265
  • Liked: 7773
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #455 on: 08/27/2019 06:31 pm »
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3780/1

Review: Spies in Space
by Dwayne Day
Monday, August 26, 2019

In late 1963, the United States Air Force and the National Reconnaissance Office began work on the Manned Orbiting Laboratory (MOL) program. MOL quickly evolved into a reconnaissance satellite with a large camera system, soon named DORIAN, that would operate for approximately one month in orbit. Two astronauts would ride inside a Gemini spacecraft at the front of the MOL atop a powerful Titan IIIM rocket launched from California’s Vandenberg Air Force Base into a polar orbit. The astronauts would look through spotting scopes at targets on the ground that MOL was about to pass over and feed instructions into a computer that would direct the DORIAN camera to take high-resolution photographs. As MOL progressed, the Air Force selected 17 astronauts to fly aboard it during multiple missions. By mid-1969, however, MOL was behind schedule and over budget and President Richard Nixon canceled it. Although parts of MOL were public, its mission and most of its technology was highly classified. It was not until October 2015 that the NRO declassified a large number of documents about MOL and allowed the surviving MOL astronauts to talk about the program.

This summer the National Reconnaissance Office produced a book by historian Courtney V.K. Homer about the MOL program. Titled Spies in Space, the book is based upon the trove of documents released by the NRO four years ago, and interviews Ms. Homer conducted with six of the MOL astronauts: Richard Truly, Bob Crippen, Al Crews, Karol Bobko, Lachlan Macleay, and James Abrahamson. It can be downloaded as a free PDF from the NRO’s website, or purchased from the US Government Publishing Office.

Spies in Space is the most comprehensive account of the MOL program published to date. At 104 pages long (albeit in rather small print), it is not a lengthy book and could be consumed by an avid reader in a day. Few people are going to plow through the hundreds of declassified MOL documents, so a book based upon them is valuable. But the most important material in the book is based upon the recollections of the MOL astronauts, primarily contained in chapters 3 and 4.
« Last Edit: 08/31/2019 02:17 am by Blackstar »

Offline tyrred

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 920
  • Seattle
  • Liked: 749
  • Likes Given: 20558
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #456 on: 08/31/2019 09:38 am »
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3780/1

Review: Spies in Space
by Dwayne Day
Monday, August 26, 2019

In late 1963, the United States Air Force and the National Reconnaissance Office began work on the Manned Orbiting Laboratory (MOL) program. MOL quickly evolved into a reconnaissance satellite with a large camera system, soon named DORIAN, that would operate for approximately one month in orbit. Two astronauts would ride inside a Gemini spacecraft at the front of the MOL atop a powerful Titan IIIM rocket launched from California’s Vandenberg Air Force Base into a polar orbit. The astronauts would look through spotting scopes at targets on the ground that MOL was about to pass over and feed instructions into a computer that would direct the DORIAN camera to take high-resolution photographs. As MOL progressed, the Air Force selected 17 astronauts to fly aboard it during multiple missions. By mid-1969, however, MOL was behind schedule and over budget and President Richard Nixon canceled it. Although parts of MOL were public, its mission and most of its technology was highly classified. It was not until October 2015 that the NRO declassified a large number of documents about MOL and allowed the surviving MOL astronauts to talk about the program.

This summer the National Reconnaissance Office produced a book by historian Courtney V.K. Homer about the MOL program. Titled Spies in Space, the book is based upon the trove of documents released by the NRO four years ago, and interviews Ms. Homer conducted with six of the MOL astronauts: Richard Truly, Bob Crippen, Al Crews, Karol Bobko, Lachlan Macleay, and James Abrahamson. It can be downloaded as a free PDF from the NRO’s website, or purchased from the US Government Publishing Office.

Spies in Space is the most comprehensive account of the MOL program published to date. At 104 pages long (albeit in rather small print), it is not a lengthy book and could be consumed by an avid reader in a day. Few people are going to plow through the hundreds of declassified MOL documents, so a book based upon them is valuable. But the most important material in the book is based upon the recollections of the MOL astronauts, primarily contained in chapters 3 and 4.

Obvious question: What does the 2nd image have to do with MOL?

Offline libra

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1818
  • Liked: 1228
  • Likes Given: 2357
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #457 on: 09/01/2019 04:55 pm »
The kind of target of opportunities MOL astronauts would snap photos off ?

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
  • Istanbul Turkey and Santa Fe TEXAS USA
  • Liked: 588
  • Likes Given: 2095
Re: MOL discussion
« Reply #458 on: 09/01/2019 05:16 pm »
The kind of target of opportunities MOL astronauts would snap photos off ?

or X37 :)

Offline Star One

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13982
  • UK
  • Liked: 3968
  • Likes Given: 220
MOL discussion
« Reply #459 on: 09/02/2019 09:04 am »
A paperback and Kindle version of the above named book can be found on the Amazon website.

Mind you I just downloaded the free version and imported it into my Kindle app.
« Last Edit: 09/02/2019 09:05 am by Star One »

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0