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SpaceX Vehicles and Missions => SpaceX Missions Section => Topic started by: gongora on 07/23/2020 04:37 pm

Title: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 07/23/2020 04:37 pm
Discussion Thread for SpaceX's second operational crew mission.

NSF Threads for Crew-2 : Discussion (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=51530.0) / Launch/Rndz/Docking Updates (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=53596.0) / End of Mission Updates (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=55174.0)

Successful launch April 23, 2021 at 5:49am EDT (9:49 UTC) on Falcon 9 (booster 1061.2) from LC-39A.  This flight used Crew Dragon "Endeavour" from the DM-2 mission.  Booster landing was successful.  Return around October 31.


Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: mark_m on 07/23/2020 06:53 pm
I wonder if Endeavor's solar panels held up so well that they're acceptable for a regular crew mission, or if (more likely I suppose) they'll upgrade them during refurbishment.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SteveU on 07/23/2020 06:57 pm
I wonder if Endeavor's solar panels held up so well that they're acceptable for a regular crew mission, or if (more likely I suppose) they'll upgrade them during refurbishment.
The solar cells are on the trunk.  unfortunately - they'll be burned up on re-entry.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Kansan52 on 07/23/2020 07:03 pm
Isn't the reuse the story?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: mark_m on 07/23/2020 07:07 pm
I wonder if Endeavor's solar panels held up so well that they're acceptable for a regular crew mission, or if (more likely I suppose) they'll upgrade them during refurbishment.
The solar cells are on the trunk.  unfortunately - they'll be burned up on re-entry.
Didn't think that one through, did I?  :-[

Okay, any other aspects of Endeavor that was demo-worthy but will need to be upgraded for a full capacity and duration mission?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 07/23/2020 07:08 pm
Isn't the reuse the story?

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46136.msg2091920#msg2091920
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: cppetrie on 07/23/2020 07:46 pm
I wonder if Endeavor's solar panels held up so well that they're acceptable for a regular crew mission, or if (more likely I suppose) they'll upgrade them during refurbishment.
The solar cells are on the trunk.  unfortunately - they'll be burned up on re-entry.
Didn't think that one through, did I?  :-[

Okay, any other aspects of Endeavor that was demo-worthy but will need to be upgraded for a full capacity and duration mission?
This capsule was originally intended for Crew-1 so it should be fully good to go for a regular duration mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: AndrewRG10 on 07/23/2020 09:04 pm
So February 2021 is the launch date. That means we'll see two Crew Dragons docked at the same time for the direct handover, right?

And I'm curious what's happening with Boeing CFT, they were expecting short turnaround between OFT-1 and CFT so if OFT-2 is going up Octoberish, why not send CFT in February?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Zed_Noir on 07/23/2020 09:15 pm
So February 2021 is the launch date. That means we'll see two Crew Dragons docked at the same time for the direct handover, right?

Most likely.

Quote
And I'm curious what's happening with Boeing CFT, they were expecting short turnaround between OFT-1 and CFT so if OFT-2 is going up Octoberish, why not send CFT in February?

OT for this thread. Re-post the question in one of the CST-100 threads for an answer.  ::)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: spacebleachers on 07/24/2020 11:19 am
My question is, why would they choose Demo-2 as the first vehicle for reuse. It has been stated that the vehicle is more susceptible to wind buffeting and such. I would think they would want at least two vehicles like the Crew-1 vehicle that can tolerate additional wind buffeting and such.

Any insights as to planned updates to the vehicle before its next launch, or if it will stay the way it is?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alexphysics on 07/24/2020 04:17 pm
It has been stated that the vehicle is more susceptible to wind buffeting and such.

Where?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Elthiryel on 07/24/2020 04:19 pm
Where?

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1286311950624993281
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alexphysics on 07/24/2020 04:31 pm
Where?

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1286311950624993281

Ah, boh, this is basically them making the landing winds requirement stricter for this mission. They explained it before the launch. It's not capsule-related, it's mission-related. Later missions will have less strict requirements.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 07/24/2020 05:22 pm
Where?

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1286311950624993281

Ah, boh, this is basically them making the landing winds requirement stricter for this mission. They explained it before the launch. It's not capsule-related, it's mission-related. Later missions will have less strict requirements.

He didn't make it sound like it was just mission requirements.  I doubt any changes would be so large that they couldn't be retrofit on Endeavour.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Robotbeat on 07/24/2020 05:32 pm
I don’t think that’s the idea at all. This is the first mission with crew so they are extra careful. Once they get experience, they can open up the allowables a bit more. Most likely WITHOUT any substantial changes. Simply by accumulating more data and thus model validation.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 07/24/2020 05:41 pm
This is what he said in the ASAP meeting:
Quote
The current configuration of the Crew Dragon, which has a very limited wind margin and which will be improved in subsequent capsules, in the recovery zone is expected to create a challenge in selecting the landing site, only because of wind and weather conditions.  In allowance for this limitation SpaceX and NASA teams have preapproved seven landing sites, which is an increase from the original three.

The seven landing sites were known before DM-2 took off, maybe they just weren't all approved for use yet.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alexphysics on 07/24/2020 06:11 pm
Well that's weird because on the other briefing before the mission what they meant was actually the mission margins and not the capsule margins so they're having another case of bad communication
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: the_other_Doug on 07/24/2020 07:10 pm
I don’t think that’s the idea at all. This is the first mission with crew so they are extra careful. Once they get experience, they can open up the allowables a bit more. Most likely WITHOUT any substantial changes. Simply by accumulating more data and thus model validation.

Indeed, the only thing I've heard about Crew Dragon entry dynamics came from Musk directly, on launch day.  I read that he was asked if he was worried for the crew during the launch.  He said not really, the Falcon was very well understood, and very reliable.  He was much more concerned about entry, because, under certain conditions, the capsule could suffer from potentially fatal attitude excursions due to cross-coupling issues.  I seem to recall that this was in relation to the super draco nozzle covers flying on this particular mission, though I could be wrong about that.

Anyone else recall hearing this tidbit?  Did y'all get further details, or perhaps understand it better than I did?  ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Robotbeat on 07/24/2020 07:12 pm
I don’t think that’s the idea at all. This is the first mission with crew so they are extra careful. Once they get experience, they can open up the allowables a bit more. Most likely WITHOUT any substantial changes. Simply by accumulating more data and thus model validation.

Indeed, the only thing I've heard about Crew Dragon entry dynamics came from Musk directly, on launch day.  I read that he was asked if he was worried for the crew during the launch.  He said not really, the Falcon was very well understood, and very reliable.  He was much more concerned about entry, because, under certain conditions, the capsule could suffer from potentially fatal attitude excursions due to cross-coupling issues.  I seem to recall that this was in relation to the super draco nozzle covers flying on this particular mission, though I could be wrong about that.

Anyone else recall hearing this tidbit?  Did y'all get further details, or perhaps understand it better than I did?  ;)
I recall it, but as I understood it, that isn't really related to weather as the capsule will be under drogue by the time it's low enough for weather to impact it.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: snotis on 07/24/2020 11:14 pm
The Crew-1 vehicle can withstand higher winds because it's outer composite panels are a little stronger.  I'm working on getting the reference to where I heard that - I will make another post when I find it.

Update: https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/07/17/nasa-confirms-plans-for-crew-dragon-return-to-earth-on-aug-2/ (https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/07/17/nasa-confirms-plans-for-crew-dragon-return-to-earth-on-aug-2/)

Quote
“The Crew-1 vehicle can land in a little bit higher wind state,” Stich said in a press briefing May 31. “SpaceX has changed some of the outer composite panels to make that a little stronger.”

Update 2: Found the press conference (14:04 in the timeline)
https://youtu.be/t2fCDDmYjss?t=844 (https://youtu.be/t2fCDDmYjss?t=844)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alexphysics on 07/24/2020 11:44 pm
Well in that case is just a matter of replacing the outer shell... which they would have done anyways for refurbishment so I don't see a problem then
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 07/27/2020 04:10 pm
Seems this is the mission in question so I put this here.

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1287776098760237056

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 07/28/2020 06:04 am
https://twitter.com/Astro_Naoko/status/1287985851146764288

Aki Hoshide will take part in Dragon Crew-2 as ISS-65 CDR.

English version from: https://global.jaxa.jp/press/2020/07/20200728-1_e.html

Quote
Announcement of the Space Vehicle for JAXA Astronaut HOSHIDE Akihiko's International Space Station (ISS) Expedition

July 28, 2020 (JST)

National Research & Development Agency
Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA)

JAXA astronaut, HOSHIDE Akihiko, currently preparing and training for the ISS Expedition, has been decided to board the second operational Crew Dragon developed by Space-X. The launch is scheduled for spring 2021.

This is his third Space flight, and in addition, he has been assigned as the second Japanese astronaut to be the ISS commander, following Astronaut WAKATA Koichi.

The flight schedule will be announced when more details are available.

Comment from Astronaut HOSHIDE Akihiko

It has been decided that I will be boarding the SpaceX's second Crew Dragon. As I have been training for long duration flight aboard the International Space Station, it is an honor to be able to board this new vehicle, following JAXA astronaut NOGUCHI Soichi. I am looking forward to board on this commercial vehicle which has been developed by the private sector utilizing new technology based on novel, innovative concept in addition to the U.S. Space Shuttle and the Russian Soyuz, those of which have long history and steady performance. At the same time, feeling the arrival of a new epoch.
Though the training phase will begin shifting to the final phase under this COVID-19 situation, I would like to ask for everyone's renewed support.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rekt1971 on 07/28/2020 09:31 am
https://mobile.twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1288040247239028737

Quote
Looks like I'll be the first European to ever ride a Dragon into space! Training has already started at SpaceX's futuristic facilities. Stay tuned for more updates... and wait, how do you install the "launch" app on these giant tablet-screens?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: AndrewRG10 on 07/28/2020 09:54 am
So ESA and JAXA astronaut. Wanna see if there will be a Russian cosmonaut or whether it'll be two American astronauts because Roscosmos cannot fly an untested flight-proven capsule.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: soltasto on 07/28/2020 10:00 am
So ESA and JAXA astronaut. Wanna see if there will be a Russian cosmonaut or whether it'll be two American astronauts because Roscosmos cannot fly an untested flight-proven capsule.


I guess this pretty much confirms no russian crew member on Crew-2. Wonder when NASA will announce their astronauts for this mission, maybe during one of the Demo-2 conferences?

Totally expect Kjell N. Lindgren to be the second Dragon Endeavour Commander tho.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 07/28/2020 01:46 pm
NASA and its international partners have assigned crew members for Crew-2, which will be the second operational SpaceX Crew Dragon flight to the International Space Station as part of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program.

NASA astronauts Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur will serve as spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively, for the mission. JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide and ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet will join as mission specialists.

Crew-2 is targeted to launch in spring 2021, following the successful completion of both NASA’s SpaceX Demo-2 test flight mission, which is expected to return to Earth Aug. 2, and the launch of NASA’s SpaceX Crew-1 mission, which is targeted for late September. The Crew-2 astronauts will remain aboard the space station for approximately six months as expedition crew members, along with three crewmates who will launch via a Russian Soyuz spacecraft. The increase of the full space station crew complement to seven members – over the previous six – will allow NASA to effectively double the amount of science that can be conducted in space.

This will be Kimbrough’s third trip to space and his second long-duration stay at the space station. Born in Killeen, Texas, and raised in Atlanta, Kimbrough was selected as an astronaut in 2004. He first launched aboard space shuttle Endeavour for a visit to the station on the STS-126 mission in 2008, then aboard a Russian Soyuz spacecraft for Expedition 49/50 in 2016. He has spent a total of 189 days in space, and performed six spacewalks. Kimbrough also is a retired U.S. Army colonel and earned a bachelor’s degree in aerospace engineering from the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, and a master’s degree in operations research from the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta.

McArthur will be making her second trip to space, but her first to the station. She was born in Honolulu but considers California to be her home state. After being selected as an astronaut in 2000, she launched on space shuttle Atlantis as a mission specialist on STS-125, the final Hubble Space Telescope servicing mission, in 2009. McArthur operated the shuttle’s robotic arm over the course of the 12 days and 21 hours she spent in space, capturing the telescope and moving crew members during the five spacewalks needed to repair and upgrade it. She holds a bachelor’s degree in aerospace engineering from the University of California, Los Angeles, and a doctorate in oceanography from the University of California, San Diego.

This will be Hoshide’s third spaceflight. He was part of the STS-124 mission aboard space shuttle Discovery in 2008 and a crew member for Expeditions 32 and 33, launching aboard a Russian Soyuz spacecraft in 2012 for a 124-day visit to the station. Pesquet previously flew as part of Expeditions 50 and 51, launching aboard a Russian Soyuz spacecraft and spending 196 days in space.

NASA’s Commercial Crew Program is working with the American aerospace industry as companies develop and operate a new generation of spacecraft and launch systems capable of carrying crews to low-Earth orbit and the space station. Commercial transportation to and from the station will provide expanded utility, additional research time, and broader opportunities for discovery on the orbital outpost.

For almost 20 years, humans have lived and worked continuously aboard the International Space Station, advancing scientific knowledge and demonstrating new technologies, making research breakthroughs not possible on Earth. As a global endeavor, 240 people from 19 countries have visited the unique microgravity laboratory that has hosted more than 3,000 research and educational investigations from researchers in 108 countries.

The station is a critical testbed for NASA to understand and overcome the challenges of long-duration spaceflight. As commercial companies focus on providing human transportation services to and from low-Earth orbit, NASA is free to focus on building spacecraft and rockets for deep space missions to the Moon and Mars.

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-announces-astronauts-to-fly-on-spacex-crew-2-mission-to-space-station
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 07/28/2020 07:02 pm
Now this is interesting.  It was my understanding that the original agreement for a crew complement of 7 was:
3 US
3 Russian
1 International (rotating between Europe, Japan, and Canada)

And for a crew complement of 6, this was modified to 2 US slots but otherwise the same.

But on this mission, we have not only two international astronauts on the same flight, but two Japanese astronauts on consecutive flights.  Anyone know why the seat rotation is all mixed up?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: intelati on 07/28/2020 07:05 pm
Now this is interesting.  It was my understanding that the original agreement for a crew complement of 7 was:
3 US
3 Russian
1 International (rotating between Europe, Japan, and Canada)

And for a crew complement of 6, this was modified to 2 US slots but otherwise the same.

But on this mission, we have not only two international astronauts on the same flight, but two Japanese astronauts on consecutive flights.  Anyone know why the seat rotation is all mixed up?

The hypothesis is Russia's comment on flying cosmonauts on "unproven" vehicles... I am not exactly clear on their reservations they have about the vehicle.

Quote
Stafford said that Russian officials, who met with Stafford’s committee in Houston in December, were reticent to fly cosmonauts on what to them are unproven vehicles. “The Russian side noted that, prior to agreeing to the mixed crew plan, there needs to be successful USCV launches,” he said. “Roscosmos will consider participation after successful launches, but will not participate in the first launch of the vehicle.”

https://spacenews.com/nasa-selects-astronauts-for-crew-dragon-mission/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: DwightM on 07/28/2020 07:08 pm
I'm thinking that since Hoshide was bumped for Cassidy that this NASA seat was assigned to him.
Interesting that, if all goes well and Crew-2 flies aboard Endeavour, Megan will fly in the same seat as her husband on its previous flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 07/28/2020 07:58 pm
I'm thinking that since Hoshide was bumped for Cassidy that this NASA seat was assigned to him.
Interesting that, if all goes well and Crew-2 flies aboard Endeavour, Megan will fly in the same seat as her husband on its previous flight.

Also, she is the only active flown Astronaut left to have never been to the ISS.   Time to change that now that Daddy is available to hand off some of the parenting duties to again.

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 07/28/2020 07:59 pm
Drumroll please Drumthe mission name & patch for @esa's first astronaut to fly to the @Space_Station on a @SpaceX Crew Dragon [email protected]_astro has been revealed! Well done Christelle de Larrard who first submitted the name "Alpha".

https://twitter.com/esaspaceflight/status/1288096875636113413
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 07/28/2020 08:01 pm
How did @Thom_astro choose "Alpha"? Find out more about his new mission name & patch, as he prepares for a spring 2021 launch to the @Space_Station alongside @NASA's Megan McArthur, @astro_kimbrough & @Aki_Hoshide of @JAXA_en #MissionAlpha

https://twitter.com/esaspaceflight/status/1288109685636096002
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: intelati on 07/28/2020 08:04 pm
Time to change that now that Daddy is available to hand off some of the parenting duties to again.

Out of context, this sentence could be construed as something kind of horrific. But what a family. Yeesh.

Even with the absences, having not one, but two multi-talented parents.  :o

Edit: I had to read the sentence a couple times to get the intended meaning.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 07/28/2020 08:05 pm
https://twitter.com/Astro_Megan/status/1288203342250901504
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 07/28/2020 08:24 pm
Time to change that now that Daddy is available to hand off some of the parenting duties to again.

Out of context, this sentence could be construed as something kind of horrific. But what a family. Yeesh.

Even with the absences, having not one, but two multi-talented parents.  :o

Edit: I had to read the sentence a couple times to get the intended meaning.

Must be the Canadian accent  ???    I just thought Megan has been doing the lion's share of the parenting of her and Bob's son while Bob has been traveling the country for years training and then a couple of months on ISS and her flying career was kind of on hold while all that was going on.   Now it's her turn to spread her wings.   I mean, it will be 12 years since she flew last.   She only flew to Hubble Telescope in 2009, never the ISS.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: intelati on 07/28/2020 08:39 pm
Time to change that now that Daddy is available to hand off some of the parenting duties to again.

Out of context, this sentence could be construed as something kind of horrific. But what a family. Yeesh.

Even with the absences, having not one, but two multi-talented parents.  :o

Edit: I had to read the sentence a couple times to get the intended meaning.

Must be the Canadian accent  ???    I just thought Megan has been doing the lion's share of the parenting of her and Bob's son while Bob has been traveling the country for years training and then a couple of months on ISS and her flying career was kind of on hold while all that was going on.   Now it's her turn to spread her wings.   I mean, it will be 12 years since she flew last.   She only flew to Hubble Telescope in 2009, never the ISS.

Without doing the research to back myself up, but Bob and her would probably have gotten mostly equivalent training (minus mission specific training of course.)

She seems to have done a ton of behind the scenes work. Just not in space...
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 07/28/2020 09:30 pm
Megan has been active the whole time and filled a number of important positions including a stint as the deputy chief to the associate director of FOD. ( Flight Operations Directorate)   She was only recently replaced there by Tingle.  But mainly stayed in the Houston area, whereas Bob and Doug were heavily involved in the design and testing of Crew Dragon which required Bob to be away in California and elsewhere a good deal of the past several years.   

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 07/28/2020 09:32 pm
Without doing the research to back myself up, but Bob and her would probably have gotten mostly equivalent training (minus mission specific training of course.)
I don't follow you.

Bob Behnken received extensive Neutral Buoyancy Lab training and is an EVA rockstar, whereas Megan McArthur has no EVA experience and is unlikely to now be trained for it since all three other Crew-2 members are experienced spacewakers.  McArthur was lead robotics crew member for STS-125, the last Hubble Space Telescope servicing mission, and was EVA capcom for STS-117 (ISS construction -- S3/S4 Truss installation), so she would be a prime candidate for leading EVA support from inside Station.

McArthur will now receive Crew Dragon Pilot training, but beyond both being NASA astronauts from Group 18 (The Bugs, starting in August 2000), I don't see why you should think their training would have been any more "equivalent" than any other two T-38 backseater astronauts.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 07/28/2020 10:06 pm
The hypothesis is Russia's comment on flying cosmonauts on "unproven" vehicles... I am not exactly clear on their reservations they have about the vehicle.

Yeah but that's a separate issue.  My question is about the crew complement once everyone has arrived at the space station - and specifically the Europe/Japan/Canada crew slot.

I'm thinking that since Hoshide was bumped for Cassidy that this NASA seat was assigned to him.

That does make sense.  I thought it was Noguchi who was replaced, but you're right, it was Hoshide.

Still, the original order would have been Hoshide-Noguchi-Pesquet.  That's still two Japanese astronauts in a row, and they skipped Canada.  (The international astronaut before Hoshide was Luca Parmitano.)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ThePonjaX on 07/30/2020 02:31 pm
I read the Crew-1 thread and this one but I couldn't find if the actual schedule for these missions it's the original or because Boeing Starliner isn't flying yet. 
Or that is discussed in another thread?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: intelati on 07/30/2020 02:39 pm
I read the Crew-1 thread and this one but I couldn't find if the actual schedule for these missions it's the original or because Boeing Starliner isn't flying yet. 
Or that is discussed in another thread?

They have always penciled in the flights. The schedule was mostly dependent on which hardware was available first. With the success of SpaceX, they have taken the lead for the flights.

In other words, both.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: vp. on 07/30/2020 03:46 pm
Will Crew-2 go to the ISS before Crew-1 returns to earth ?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ThomasGadd on 07/30/2020 10:41 pm
Will Crew-2 go to the ISS before Crew-1 returns to earth ?

I was just thinking about this.  By design the two providers are up there on  staggered six month duration.  Until Boeing is certified SpaceX will have to step up and advance Crew-2 schedule. 
My question is how much?  I think a month for the hand over time.  They get more done with more people.  It would also take the pressure off NASA.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 07/30/2020 10:46 pm
Will Crew-2 go to the ISS before Crew-1 returns to earth ?

I was just thinking about this.  By design the two providers are up there on  staggered six month duration.  Until Boeing is certified SpaceX will have to step up and advance Crew-2 schedule. 
My question is how much?  I think a month for the hand over time.  They get more done with more people.  It would also take the pressure off NASA.

Soyuz is still flying.  That would be 11 people on station for a month at a time.  That's not likely.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: AndrewRG10 on 07/30/2020 10:55 pm
Will Crew-2 go to the ISS before Crew-1 returns to earth ?

I was just thinking about this.  By design the two providers are up there on  staggered six month duration.  Until Boeing is certified SpaceX will have to step up and advance Crew-2 schedule. 
My question is how much?  I think a month for the hand over time.  They get more done with more people.  It would also take the pressure off NASA.

Soyuz is still flying.  That would be 11 people on station for a month at a time.  That's not likely.

The ISS could support 13 for a week with the help of a Shuttle so I imagine the handover period will be no more than a week, roughly the same time the Soyuz does for handover.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ThomasGadd on 07/30/2020 11:55 pm
Will Crew-2 go to the ISS before Crew-1 returns to earth ?

I was just thinking about this.  By design the two providers are up there on  staggered six month duration.  Until Boeing is certified SpaceX will have to step up and advance Crew-2 schedule. 
My question is how much?  I think a month for the hand over time.  They get more done with more people.  It would also take the pressure off NASA.

Soyuz is still flying.  That would be 11 people on station for a month at a time.  That's not likely.

Fine.  Wishful thinking.  Not a month.  My point is Crew-1 can't go anywhere until relived by Crew-2.

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 07/31/2020 12:15 am
Fine.  Wishful thinking.  Not a month.  My point is Crew-1 can't go anywhere until relived by Crew-2.

Not necessarily.  I think we've seen intention from NASA to do direct handovers but it is not required.  The Soyuz crews will be staggered with the crews on the American vehicles.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 07/31/2020 02:04 am
Fine.  Wishful thinking.  Not a month.  My point is Crew-1 can't go anywhere until relived by Crew-2.
Not necessarily.  I think we've seen intention from NASA to do direct handovers but it is not required.  ...
Agreed. NASA bought a seat on MS-17, launching 14 October, for Kate Rubins to relieve Chris Cassidy, so yes, while I believe they are looking to do a direct handover, it is not required.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 07/31/2020 03:23 pm
https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1289215694731534336

Quote
On his wife @Astro_Megan getting picked to fly Crew-2, Behnken said: "She's super excited to be assigned to a SpaceX mission ... of course I'll have a lot of tips for her, a lot of them will be about how life on space station goes."
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jacqmans on 08/04/2020 02:06 pm
Some crew-2 training images
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jacqmans on 08/04/2020 02:07 pm
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 08/14/2020 06:30 pm
https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1294339936603308032

Quote
As Crew-1 will be the first six month mission for Crew Dragon, the Oct. 23 launch date means there will be a handover at the ISS between these four astronauts and the next four launching on Crew-2 in spring 2021.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 08/22/2020 03:35 pm
https://twitter.com/astro_kimbrough/status/1297194324447367168
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 08/30/2020 06:26 am
https://twitter.com/SpaceGirlLina/status/1299894700195770368
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 08/31/2020 12:00 am
https://twitter.com/Astro_Megan/status/1300217876058648581
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: snotis on 09/09/2020 12:43 am
From NASA SMSR master schedule (Safety and Mission Success Review) for Crew-2:

SORR (Stage Operations Readiness Review): 3/4/2021
FRR (Flight Readiness Review): 3/23/2021
Launch: 3/30/2021

(Source: CoFR (Certification Of Flight Readiness) matrix dated 8/18/2020)

https://sma.nasa.gov/docs/default-source/sma-disciplines-and-programs/smsr/smsr-intergrated-master-schedule_24feb2020.pdf?sfvrsn=8290faf8_4
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 09/17/2020 09:40 pm
GT: 45 years of cockpit evolution !!
Star struck
  I had the chance to be at the controls of the very analog (and hyper reliable) #Soyuz, of the @ Airbus
 Airbus A310 from Novespace, from the A350, then finally from @SpaceX
 Crew Dragon and its (almost) fully digital cockpit. #AvGeek

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1306589832269803520

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 09/19/2020 05:12 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1307228151181967361

Translated from French by Google:
The mission is approaching is the moment to think about what objects, symbolic or personal, I will take with me
Luggage
 . What would you take in my place?
Thinking face
 All suggestions are accepted if they are justified!
Thinking face
#MissionAlpha
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 09/23/2020 03:55 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1308794964848128000
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 10/07/2020 05:23 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1313881988739325959
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: scr00chy on 10/07/2020 05:47 pm
Lots more photos from the water survival training on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/thom_astro/sets/72157716167594003/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: snotis on 10/07/2020 10:04 pm
Also some photos from back in July that hasn't been linked to here yet: https://www.flickr.com/photos/thom_astro/albums/72157715470461007/with/50220567123/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/thom_astro/albums/72157715470461007/with/50220567123/)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 10/12/2020 02:38 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1314890595761094659
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jacqmans on 10/13/2020 02:18 pm
Thomas prepares for Time in space
13/10/2020

ESA astronaut Thomas Pesquet trains for the Time experiment at NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, USA ahead of his Alpha mission to the International Space Station in 2021.

This European experiment on the International Space Station investigates the hypothesis that time subjectively speeds up in microgravity and was first run in space in 2017.

Whether an activity takes seconds or hours depends on your point of view. For astronauts living off-planet and experiencing roughly 16 sunrises and sunsets a day, the concept of time is even more warped. If astronauts float through space, do they also cruise through an altered sense of time?

Since perceptions of time and space are believed to share the same neural processes, and research on depth perception in weightlessness has shown that astronauts often underestimate distance, scientists speculate that for astronauts time also flies in space.

Thomas demonstrates the experiment perfectly in this image, wearing a virtual reality headset to block external visual cues that could influence results. While wearing this headset, astronauts are tasked with gauging how long a visual target appears before them and their reaction times to these prompts are recorded to process speed and attention.

The astronauts run the experiment before flight, on the International Space Station and again when they land to compare results.

Scientists are not only collecting data on the neurological mechanisms at work here. The relativity of time, after all, implies that it is all in your head. As much as we can objectively measure and plot time, how individual humans perceive it is not just neurological but also psychological.

This is an important factor to life both on and off Earth.

As home-like as the Space Station tries to be for its astronaut inhabitants, it still lacks many of the comforts that we know on Earth. Naturally, this can affect mental health and in turn astronauts’ cognitive abilities. Being alert and focused in space is crucial to safety. An astronaut misjudging time can delay reaction and risk the safety and success of crews and missions.

Understanding the neurological and psychological triggers that warp our sense of time means countermeasures can be developed to calibrate our mental clocks.

Bringing these countermeasures down to Earth could improve the lives of those who suffer from isolation or confinement, something of particular relevance during the current COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2020/10/Thomas_prepares_for_Time_in_space
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 10/13/2020 03:34 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1316031831536553985
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 10/21/2020 05:52 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1318951884040921090

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 10/31/2020 09:48 am
30 oct 2020: astro_kimbrough:
Enjoyed some beautiful fall weather and great training with @thom_astro and @astro.megan at the Gagarin Cosmonaut Training Center in Star City, Russia space nasa iss crew2 crewdragon spacex
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 10/31/2020 06:53 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1322587188404588545

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: snotis on 11/10/2020 09:16 pm
Per NASA’s SpaceX Crew-1 Mission - Flight Readiness Review Media Telecon (Nov. 10, 2020): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9JjCNuLvU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9JjCNuLvU)

Current planning date for Crew-2 is March 30, 2021 (00:46:36 mark).  It will re-use the DM-2 capsule and F9 booster used for Crew-1.

There are Dragon upgrades baselined for Crew-2 to "improve the capability of the vehicle" - including "a radio improvement for the rescue beacon" (01:03:30 mark).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Norm38 on 11/11/2020 03:33 am
When capsules are reused, does it get a new name by the new crew? Or is it Endeavour forever?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: russianhalo117 on 11/11/2020 03:37 am
When capsules are reused, does it get a new name by the new crew? Or is it Endeavour forever?
They are presently planned to keep the names they are assigned like the OV's because they are reusable.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: snotis on 11/11/2020 03:38 am
It is my understanding that it will be Endeavour forever.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 11/11/2020 05:48 pm
https://twitter.com/launchphoto/status/1326596821762924545

Quote
Crew-2 also getting ready for their adventure next Spring (L-R: Thomas Pesquet of France/ESA, Shane Kimbrough, Megan McArthur and Aki Hoshide of Japan)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 11/11/2020 06:40 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1326589264952512514

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1326603458514972673
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Josh_from_Canada on 11/11/2020 07:51 pm
As of the current schedule, this mission would launch within days of Soyuz MS-18 meaning there would be 14 crew members on the station for about a week for the turnover between Expedition 64 and Expedition 65.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 11/11/2020 07:55 pm
The March 30 date is for planned readiness, I really don't expect that to be the launch date.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 11/11/2020 11:26 pm
It’s likely to get shifted to mid-April due to the Crew-1 delay. Part of the reason why CRS-22 got delayed to May.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 11/13/2020 06:02 pm
(From left) Thomas Pesquet of ESA, Megan McArthur and Shane Kimbrough of NASA, and Akihiko Hoshide of JAXA are pictured at SpaceX headquarter in Hawthorne, California. / September 3, 2020

Copyright: SpaceX/JAXA

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: snotis on 11/13/2020 06:32 pm
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=103701 (https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=103701)

Quote
This application extends the frequencies in grant 0880-EX-ST-2020. This STA is necessary for Dragon2 capsule telemetry and tracking for the upcoming SpaceX Commercial Crew mission to the International Space Station. The launch and re-entry licensing authority is the FAA. Launch is also to be coordinated with the Eastern Range. On-orbit rendezvous with the ISS is to be coordinated with the NASA.

Quote
Operation Start Date:   01/10/2021
Operation End Date:   07/10/2021
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 11/14/2020 01:19 am
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=103701 (https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=103701)

Quote
This application extends the frequencies in grant 0880-EX-ST-2020. This STA is necessary for Dragon2 capsule telemetry and tracking for the upcoming SpaceX Commercial Crew mission to the International Space Station. The launch and re-entry licensing authority is the FAA. Launch is also to be coordinated with the Eastern Range. On-orbit rendezvous with the ISS is to be coordinated with the NASA.

Quote
Operation Start Date:   01/10/2021
Operation End Date:   07/10/2021

That was for Crew-1
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 11/16/2020 09:07 am
Crew from this flight confirming booster B1061.2 for Crew-2:

https://twitter.com/Aki_Hoshide/status/1328172834397548547

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1328224251837603840
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 11/20/2020 10:07 pm
Quote
We have a backup in case something happens to this particular stage, but we’ve done all our inspections on this stage,” said Kathy Lueders, associate administrator for NASA’s human exploration and operations mission directorate. “We’ve done all the work. We understand the hardware. So we would really like to use this because it makes the job for Crew-2 easier.”

A backup booster SpaceX and NASA could use for the Crew-2 mission is the Falcon 9 booster slated to launch the Sentinel-6 Michael Freilich oceanography satellite from California, Lueders said. That launch is scheduled for Saturday, and the booster will return to an onshore landing facility at Vandenberg Air Force Base a few minutes after takeoff.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/11/20/crew-rated-spacex-booster-returns-to-cape-canaveral-with-a-lean/

B1063 is a backup booster for Crew-2.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 11/30/2020 11:19 pm
https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1333563496424988673

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 11/30/2020 11:25 pm
https://twitter.com/TJ_Cooney/status/1333567022521851905

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 11/30/2020 11:49 pm
Photos from NASA flickr
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 12/03/2020 11:38 pm
https://twitter.com/astro_kimbrough/status/1334657473513480193

Quote
Excited to reveal our Crew-2 mission patch!  The determined expression of the Dragon in the patch reflects the strength of the team and their contribution to the exploration of space  @Thom_astro @Astro_Megan @Aki_Hoshide #nasa #spacex #iss #space
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 12/04/2020 08:27 am
Got the feeling that the Astronaut Corps are excited to have a spacecraft specially for them again!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jpc3939 on 12/04/2020 11:49 am
Isn't that dragon in the patch factually wrong? It looks like they mounted rocket engines in the trunk and firing them!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: TJL on 12/04/2020 02:09 pm
Isn't that dragon in the patch factually wrong? It looks like they mounted rocket engines in the trunk and firing them!

Nice patch (regarding engines in the trunk - artistic license).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: NX-0 on 12/04/2020 07:12 pm
Isn't that dragon in the patch factually wrong? It looks like they mounted rocket engines in the trunk and firing them!
Those are the "wg"s

Whoosh Generators.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gemmy0I on 12/04/2020 11:11 pm
Isn't that dragon in the patch factually wrong? It looks like they mounted rocket engines in the trunk and firing them!

Nice patch (regarding engines in the trunk - artistic license).
In this case they almost had to take some artistic license, as depicting the engines firing from the "correct" positions would imply a failed mission (an abort scenario), not a successful one. ;)

(And if anyone's thinking "what about propulsive landing", that would be conducted without the trunk. :D )
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 12/05/2020 07:43 am
https://flic.kr/p/2kdoZFA
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 12/22/2020 09:06 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1341436944245506053

GT: For two years, a small woolen bracelet, with a very strong symbolism for the Kogis, has resisted all space training on my wrist. I hope it will last until take off!

For his final departure in unknown land, Frédéric Lopez flew alongside @Thom_astro
 , towards the north of Colombia to meet the Kogis ...

Television
 Tonight at 8.50 pm and already available on http://france.tv►http://bit.ly/RDVETI-Pesquet


Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 12/22/2020 09:20 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1341399200416862213
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 12/24/2020 12:24 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1342095971036131329
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 01/15/2021 04:25 am
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1349787871364997121

No change to launch target date yet, but currently  under review.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: NX-0 on 01/25/2021 07:33 pm
Boeing OFT-2 is scheduled for March 25.
That means it will either happen AFTER Crew-1 returns home or BEFORE (more likely) Crew-2 launches.

Does that sound about right?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 01/25/2021 07:40 pm
Crew-1 and Crew-2 will overlap.  OFT-2 cannot launch during that time period when both are on station.  If OFT-2 launches on March 25 then Crew-1 will still be at the station.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Sesquipedalian on 01/25/2021 08:28 pm
I believe OFT-2 will dock to Node 2 forward (IDA-2), which means Crew-1 must relocate to Node 2 zenith (IDA-3).  All 4 crew members will need to be aboard for the relocation in the event of a redocking problem forcing a return to Earth.  So it makes sense that NASA would want to schedule the relocation near the end of an increment, rather than near the beginning of one.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Comga on 01/26/2021 04:08 pm
I believe OFT-2 will dock to Node 2 forward (IDA-2), which means Crew-1 must relocate to Node 2 zenith (IDA-3).  All 4 crew members will need to be aboard for the relocation in the event of a redocking problem forcing a return to Earth.  So it makes sense that NASA would want to schedule the relocation near the end of an increment, rather than near the beginning of one.

But...
CRS-2/SpX-21 demonstrated autonomous docking of an upgraded Dragon to Node-2 Zenith.
If OFT-2 slips, launching after Crew-1 returns leaves the forward port open for it.
That's simpler operationally than relocating the Crew-1 Resilience Dragon.
That might even favor OFT-2 being after the beginning of this particular increment.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 01/26/2021 04:17 pm
If Crew-1 doesn't move to Zenith then Crew-2 will have to move from Zenith to Forward before SpX-22 launches.  Crew vehicles are going to have to move around for Cargo Dragons.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Comga on 01/27/2021 02:25 am
If Crew-1 doesn't move to Zenith then Crew-2 will have to move from Zenith to Forward before SpX-22 launches.  Crew vehicles are going to have to move around for Cargo Dragons.

OK
Why is that?
SpX-21 docked to Node 2 autonomously on its first flight while crew-critical Resiliency was docked to Node 2 Forward.
Resilience docked to Node2 forward with supervised autonomy.
Having proven autonomous docking to both ports what is gained by port swapping?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Josh_from_Canada on 01/27/2021 02:34 am
If Crew-1 doesn't move to Zenith then Crew-2 will have to move from Zenith to Forward before SpX-22 launches.  Crew vehicles are going to have to move around for Cargo Dragons.

OK
Why is that?
SpX-21 docked to Node 2 autonomously on its first flight while crew-critical Resiliency was docked to Node 2 Forward.
Resilience docked to Node2 forward with supervised autonomy.
Having proven autonomous docking to both ports what is gained by port swapping?

The Canadarm can't take cargo out of the trunk when Cargo Dragon's docked to PMA-2/IDA-2. Thus all Cargo Dragon flight will be docking to PMA-3/IDA-3.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gemmy0I on 01/27/2021 02:40 am
If Crew-1 doesn't move to Zenith then Crew-2 will have to move from Zenith to Forward before SpX-22 launches.  Crew vehicles are going to have to move around for Cargo Dragons.

OK
Why is that?
SpX-21 docked to Node 2 autonomously on its first flight while crew-critical Resiliency was docked to Node 2 Forward.
Resilience docked to Node2 forward with supervised autonomy.
Having proven autonomous docking to both ports what is gained by port swapping?
Cargo Dragons need to be at the Zenith port for the Canadarm to reach into the trunk. The trunk would be too far away from the nearest Canadarm base station if Dragon were docked to the Forward port.

If the planned exchange program between U.S. and Russian vehicles were in operation, there would be no need for an expedition Crew Dragon to ever dock at the Zenith port as there wouldn't be two Commercial Crew vehicles on station at the same time (except for tourist ships and other short-duration visits, which could be coordinated to avoid overlap with Cargo Dragons). But because Roscosmos has been dragging its feet on certifying Crew Dragon as "safe" for its cosmonauts (they don't want to be seen as automatically trusting the American certification for political reasons), each nation has to do separate overlapping crew handoffs in the meantime to avoid having their side of the station de-crewed. Hence the need for all the port juggling. Hopefully this will cease to be an issue in the near future (there has been talk of a cosmonaut exchanging a Soyuz seat with a USOS astronaut for a seat on Crew-3).

Starliner OFT-2 needs to dock at the Forward port for a different reason: the Commercial Crew program milestones only require software compatibility with the Forward port for the demo missions, and thus Starliner doesn't support the Zenth approach yet. (The same was true of Dragon which didn't support the Zenith approach until Crew-1.) That means Crew Dragon has to move to Zenith to make room for Starliner's two-week mission, then move back to Forward before the next Cargo Dragon arrives. A lot of juggling. :)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: cwr on 01/27/2021 03:22 am
If Crew-1 doesn't move to Zenith then Crew-2 will have to move from Zenith to Forward before SpX-22 launches.  Crew vehicles are going to have to move around for Cargo Dragons.

OK
Why is that?
SpX-21 docked to Node 2 autonomously on its first flight while crew-critical Resiliency was docked to Node 2 Forward.
Resilience docked to Node2 forward with supervised autonomy.
Having proven autonomous docking to both ports what is gained by port swapping?
Cargo Dragons need to be at the Zenith port for the Canadarm to reach into the trunk. The trunk would be too far away from the nearest Canadarm base station if Dragon were docked to the Forward port.

If the planned exchange program between U.S. and Russian vehicles were in operation, there would be no need for an expedition Crew Dragon to ever dock at the Zenith port as there wouldn't be two Commercial Crew vehicles on station at the same time (except for tourist ships and other short-duration visits, which could be coordinated to avoid overlap with Cargo Dragons). But because Roscosmos has been dragging its feet on certifying Crew Dragon as "safe" for its cosmonauts (they don't want to be seen as automatically trusting the American certification for political reasons), each nation has to do separate overlapping crew handoffs in the meantime to avoid having their side of the station de-crewed. Hence the need for all the port juggling. Hopefully this will cease to be an issue in the near future (there has been talk of a cosmonaut exchanging a Soyuz seat with a USOS astronaut for a seat on Crew-3).

Starliner OFT-2 needs to dock at the Forward port for a different reason: the Commercial Crew program milestones only require software compatibility with the Forward port for the demo missions, and thus Starliner doesn't support the Zenth approach yet. (The same was true of Dragon which didn't support the Zenith approach until Crew-1.) That means Crew Dragon has to move to Zenith to make room for Starliner's two-week mission, then move back to Forward before the next Cargo Dragon arrives. A lot of juggling. :)

NASA's plan for commercial crew has always been for overlapping commercial crew handovers. Even when NASA and Roscosmos agree on a seat barter for crew handover, the USOS will still use overlapping crew exchange.

Carl
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: russianhalo117 on 01/27/2021 03:28 am
Note that ROSCOSMOS will be returning to direct handover as well for its flights starting sometime this year.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gemmy0I on 01/27/2021 03:34 am
NASA's plan for commercial crew has always been for overlapping commercial crew handovers. Even when NASA and Roscosmos agree on a seat barter for crew handover, the USOS will still use overlapping crew exchange.
I wasn't aware of that, thanks. In that case there is a lot of incorrect information floating around out there, as I've often heard it stated that it was due to the present lack of seat bartering.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 01/27/2021 07:12 am
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1354336449877962752
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: mandrewa on 01/27/2021 12:51 pm
If Crew-1 doesn't move to Zenith then Crew-2 will have to move from Zenith to Forward before SpX-22 launches.  Crew vehicles are going to have to move around for Cargo Dragons.

OK
Why is that?
SpX-21 docked to Node 2 autonomously on its first flight while crew-critical Resiliency was docked to Node 2 Forward.
Resilience docked to Node2 forward with supervised autonomy.
Having proven autonomous docking to both ports what is gained by port swapping?
Cargo Dragons need to be at the Zenith port for the Canadarm to reach into the trunk. The trunk would be too far away from the nearest Canadarm base station if Dragon were docked to the Forward port.

If the planned exchange program between U.S. and Russian vehicles were in operation, there would be no need for an expedition Crew Dragon to ever dock at the Zenith port as there wouldn't be two Commercial Crew vehicles on station at the same time (except for tourist ships and other short-duration visits, which could be coordinated to avoid overlap with Cargo Dragons). But because Roscosmos has been dragging its feet on certifying Crew Dragon as "safe" for its cosmonauts (they don't want to be seen as automatically trusting the American certification for political reasons), each nation has to do separate overlapping crew handoffs in the meantime to avoid having their side of the station de-crewed. Hence the need for all the port juggling. Hopefully this will cease to be an issue in the near future (there has been talk of a cosmonaut exchanging a Soyuz seat with a USOS astronaut for a seat on Crew-3).

Starliner OFT-2 needs to dock at the Forward port for a different reason: the Commercial Crew program milestones only require software compatibility with the Forward port for the demo missions, and thus Starliner doesn't support the Zenth approach yet. (The same was true of Dragon which didn't support the Zenith approach until Crew-1.) That means Crew Dragon has to move to Zenith to make room for Starliner's two-week mission, then move back to Forward before the next Cargo Dragon arrives. A lot of juggling. :)

NASA's plan for commercial crew has always been for overlapping commercial crew handovers. Even when NASA and Roscosmos agree on a seat barter for crew handover, the USOS will still use overlapping crew exchange.

Carl


Overlapping commercial crew handovers mean that every six months there will be a short period with eleven astronauts on the ISS.   And if Roscosmos does the same, ten or eleven member crews will occur every three months.  So overlapping commercial crew handovers means more research. 

But if NASA and Roscosmos agree on a seat barter this will open up the option of not doing an overlapping crew handover and given the limited number of ports on the NASA side then surely there will be circumstances where that option will be tempting.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: OnWithTheShow on 01/27/2021 02:43 pm
Starliner OFT-2 needs to dock at the Forward port for a different reason: the Commercial Crew program milestones only require software compatibility with the Forward port for the demo missions, and thus Starliner doesn't support the Zenth approach yet. (The same was true of Dragon which didn't support the Zenith approach until Crew-1.) That means Crew Dragon has to move to Zenith to make room for Starliner's two-week mission, then move back to Forward before the next Cargo Dragon arrives. A lot of juggling. :)

So this begs the question how much propellant reserve is required on commercial crew vehicles for relocations.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gemmy0I on 01/27/2021 08:55 pm
Starliner OFT-2 needs to dock at the Forward port for a different reason: the Commercial Crew program milestones only require software compatibility with the Forward port for the demo missions, and thus Starliner doesn't support the Zenth approach yet. (The same was true of Dragon which didn't support the Zenith approach until Crew-1.) That means Crew Dragon has to move to Zenith to make room for Starliner's two-week mission, then move back to Forward before the next Cargo Dragon arrives. A lot of juggling. :)

So this begs the question how much propellant reserve is required on commercial crew vehicles for relocations.
Indeed. I suspect it's relatively small, though, considering that the vehicles have several hundred m/s of delta-v in store for a nominal mission. Dragon in particular has the advantage of being able to share delta-v between its maneuvering thrusters and abort motors, the combined propellant margins of which would be substantially oversized due to having been originally designed for propulsive landing. That should, in theory, be entirely above and beyond the baseline delta-v allotment for an ISS mission, which was budgeted into the design back when propulsive landing was still planned.

In the original propulsive landing design, there was extra delta-v on board, above and beyond that needed for on-orbit maneuvers, which could be used for either an abort or a landing, but not both, the thinking being that they'd fall back to parachutes in an abort. Now that propulsive landing isn't a thing, that extra delta-v still has to be carried for abort purposes, but upon safely reaching orbit becomes fully available for maneuvers. This is in contrast to Starliner which, for some reason, isn't designed to maneuver on-orbit with the weight of the extra abort propellant and thus needs to "dump" it by finishing orbit insertion with its own motors after being dropped off on a trajectory intentionally short of orbit by Atlas V. (That seems to be one of the reasons why it wasted so much fuel on OFT-1 when the capsule's mission timer got mixed up, because it was in an unstable orbit and had one shot to perform the critical circularization burn; that burn was performed late and thus required a lot more delta-v due to orbital mechanics not favoring the late burn.)

The bounty of delta-v on board Dragon 2 is apparently what will make possible the upcoming Space Adventures free-flying tourist mission that is supposed to raise its apogee to over 1000 km with the onboard Dracos after being dropped off in a standard low LEO by Falcon 9.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 01/28/2021 02:07 pm
twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1354800132777267203

Quote
NASA plans to reuse a Falcon 9 first stage for the Crew-2 mission later this spring. I asked for an update from Steve Stich, NASA's program manager for commercial crew, and it sounds like they're working through the review process.

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1354800376978042880

Quote
Stich: "So far, the team has not identified any showstoppers and the Commercial Crew Program Control Board continues to review the components for flight using the standard process."
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 01/29/2021 06:07 pm
https://twitter.com/commercial_crew/status/1355230929011281928

Quote
Launch Alert 🚀 @NASA and @SpaceX are targeting no earlier than April 20 for the launch of the second crew rotation mission with astronauts to the @Space_Station.

The Crew-2 mission will lift off from Launch Complex 39A at @NASAKennedy. Learn more: go.nasa.gov/2NRezZz

https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2021/01/29/nasa-spacex-to-launch-second-commercial-crew-rotation-mission-to-international-space-station/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 01/30/2021 01:04 am
NASA, SpaceX to Launch Second Commercial Crew Rotation Mission to International Space Station

Anna Heiney Posted on January 29, 2021

Members of the SpaceX Crew-2 mission to the International Space Station participated in training in Hawthorne, California, on Jan. 11, 2021. Pictured from left are ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet, NASA astronauts Megan McArthur and Shane Kimbrough, and Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide. Photo Credit: SpaceX
NASA and SpaceX are targeting no earlier than Tuesday, April 20, for launch of the second crew rotation mission with astronauts on an American rocket and spacecraft from the United States to the International Space Station.

NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission will launch four astronauts aboard a Crew Dragon spacecraft on a Falcon 9 rocket to the space station. It will be the first mission to fly two international partner crew members as part of the agency’s Commercial Crew Program.

NASA astronauts Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur will serve as spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively. Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, and ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet will join as mission specialists.

The mission will lift off from Launch Complex 39A at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The crew is scheduled for a long-duration stay aboard the orbiting laboratory, living and working as part of what is expected to be a seven-member crew.

Crew-2 also is expected to arrive at the space station to overlap with the astronauts that flew to the station as part of the agency’s SpaceX Crew-1 mission.

Return of Crew-1 with NASA astronauts Michael Hopkins, Victor Glover and Shannon Walker, along with JAXA astronaut Soichi Noguchi, is currently scheduled for late April or early May. Crew-2 astronauts are set to return in fall 2021.

NASA and SpaceX also continue preparations for the launch of the agency’s Crew-3 mission, which currently is targeted for fall of this year.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/kennedy/2021/01/29/nasa-spacex-to-launch-second-commercial-crew-rotation-mission-to-international-space-station/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 01/30/2021 01:57 am
https://twitter.com/ROBO_Tim/status/1355288576859262980

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 01/30/2021 08:03 am
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1355439418518228994
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 01/31/2021 11:48 pm
Cross-post:
http://www.launchphotography.com/Launch_Viewing_Guide.html
Quote
FALCON 9
<snip>The next Crew Dragon, Crew-2, carrying four astronauts to the space station, is targeted for April 20, around 5 or 6am EDT.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 02/09/2021 05:07 am
https://twitter.com/SpaceGirlLina/status/1358995671093678080
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 02/09/2021 05:55 pm
https://twitter.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1359209422292197377
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 02/09/2021 09:42 pm
http://flic.kr/p/2kAgKRz

Quote
The official portrait of SpaceX Crew-2 (Uploaded on February 9, 2021)

jsc2021e007778 (Feb. 23, 2021) --- The official portrait of the SpaceX Crew-2 crew members. From left are, NASA astronaut and Pilot Megan McArthur; European Space Agency (ESA) astronaut and Mission Specialist Thomas Pesquet; JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut and Mission Specialist Akihiko Hoshide; and NASA astronaut and Commander Shane Kimbrough.


Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 02/09/2021 10:08 pm
http://flic.kr/s/aHsmSyJjXu

more individual  photos (Uploaded on February 9, 2021):

jsc2020e034230_alt (Aug. 18, 2020) --- Portrait of NASA astronaut and SpaceX Crew-2 Commander Shane Kimbrough.

jsc2020e042697_alt (Sept. 29, 2020) --- Portrait of NASA astronaut and SpaceX Crew-2 Commander Shane Kimbrough.

jsc2020e042654_alt (Sept. 29, 2020) --- Portrait of JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut and SpaceX Crew-2 Mission Specialist Akihiko Hoshide.

jsc2020e042824_alt (Sept. 29, 2020) --- Portrait of European Space Agency (ESA) astronaut and SpaceX Crew-2 Mission Specialist Thomas Pesquet.

jsc2020e053345_alt (Dec. 9, 2020) --- Portrait of European Space Agency (ESA) astronaut and SpaceX Crew-2 Mission Specialist Thomas Pesquet.

jsc2020e043271_alt (Nov. 19, 2020) --- Portrait of NASA astronaut and SpaceX Crew-2 Pilot Megan McArthur.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 02/10/2021 06:13 pm
https://twitter.com/astro_kimbrough/status/1359564417692626947
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: High Bay 4 on 02/10/2021 11:47 pm
Can someone explain why Megan McArthur has a Mach 26 patch on her flight suit while the rest of her crewmates are sporting Mach 25 patches?  Does it have to do with STS-125 being a Hubble servicing mission?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ddspaceman on 02/11/2021 02:04 am
Can someone explain why Megan McArthur has a Mach 26 patch on her flight suit while the rest of her crewmates are sporting Mach 25 patches?  Does it have to do with STS-125 being a Hubble servicing mission?

Explained here:
http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/000823.html

The incremental increase in Mach number is due to the nature of their mission; to service the Hubble Space Telescope, Atlantis' crew flew to an altitude between 300 and 360 miles, about 100 miles above the International Space Station. As such, their reentry velocity on the way back to Earth was greater.

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: AstroWare on 02/11/2021 02:20 am
Its a shame that SpaceX doesn't produce a the helmet with just clearcoat (That black helmet looks great)

Sourced from https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasa2explore/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasa2explore/)
Also - is Megan McArthur's flight suit actually going to be different? (No pinstriping is the main thing)

Or is that a training only suit, kinda like the black helmet? Not important.  Kinda like it better.

Just curious!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: IntoTheVoid on 02/14/2021 05:22 pm
I realize that it seems there's little firsts all over the place these days, but is the handover the first time that JAXA will have two astronauts in orbit at the same time? And is it a big deal for them?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 02/14/2021 05:47 pm
I realize that it seems there's little firsts all over the place these days, but is the handover the first time that JAXA will have two astronauts in orbit at the same time? And is it a big deal for them?

Soichi Noguchi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soichi_Noguchi) was Flight Engineer 3/1 for Expeditions 22 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedition_22)/23 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedition_23), with Soyuz TMA-17 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_TMA-17) docked from 22 December 2009 to 12 May 2010, when STS-131 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-131) visited from 7 to 17 April 2010, carrying Mission Specialist 4 Naoko Yamazaki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naoko_Yamazaki).  I believe that was the first and only time two JAXA astronauts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JAXA_Astronaut_Corps#Members) have been in space at the same time.

Edit: Wikipedia links.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 02/16/2021 08:01 pm
Applications for Crew-2 mission have been filed.

0207-EX-ST-2021
https://fcc.report/ELS/Space-Explorations-Technologies/0207-EX-ST-2021

This application extends the frequencies in previous grant 1695-EX-ST-2020. This STA is necessary for Dragon2 capsule command and recovery for the upcoming commercial crew mission to the International Space Station.

Requested Period of Operation
Operation Start Date:   03/30/2021
Operation End Date:   09/30/2021



0194-EX-ST-2021
https://fcc.report/ELS/Space-Exploration-Technologies-Corp/0194-EX-ST-2021

This application extends the frequencies in grant 1694-EX-ST-2020. This STA is necessary for Dragon2 capsule telemetry and tracking for the upcoming SpaceX Commercial Crew mission to the International Space Station. The launch and re-entry licensing authority is the FAA. Launch is also to be coordinated with the Eastern Range. On-orbit rendezvous with the ISS is to be coordinated with the NASA.

Requested Period of Operation
Operation Start Date:   03/30/2021
Operation End Date:   09/30/2021
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 02/18/2021 04:10 pm
https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1362449235589890052

Quote
NASA's Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel says it "will be closely monitoring" the work SpaceX does to prepare the Crew Dragon capsule Endeavour and Falcon 9 rocket for reuse on the upcoming Crew-2 mission – as it is the first time a capsule will be reused for a crew mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jacqmans on 02/23/2021 10:27 am
February 22, 2021
MEDIA ADVISORY M21-027

NASA to Host Briefings, Interviews for Next Crew Rotation Mission with SpaceX

NASA will highlight the second crew rotation flight of a U.S. commercial spacecraft with astronauts to the International Space Station with a pair of news conferences beginning 12:30 p.m. EST Monday, March 1. The briefings, which will take place at the agency’s Johnson Space Center in Houston, will air live on NASA Television, the NASA app, and the agency’s website. The full astronaut crew flying on the mission also will be available for interviews.

NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission will carry astronauts Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur of NASA, Akihiko Hoshide of JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency), and ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet aboard a Crew Dragon spacecraft atop a Falcon 9 rocket to the space station. The mission is scheduled to launch no earlier than April 20 from Launch Complex 39A at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

All media participation in these news conferences and interviews will be remote; no media will be accommodated at any NASA site. To participate in the briefings by phone or to request an interview with the crew members, reporters must contact Johnson's newsroom at 281-483-5111 or [email protected] no later than 12 p.m., Thursday, Feb. 25.

Briefings and participants include (all times Eastern):

12:30 p.m. – Crew-2 Mission Overview News Conference with the following participants:

Kathy Lueders, NASA associate administrator for human exploration and operations, NASA Headquarters
Steve Stich, manager, Commercial Crew Program, NASA’s Kennedy Space Center
Joel Montalbano, manager, International Space Station, Johnson
Benji Reed, senior director, Human Spaceflight Programs, SpaceX
Junichi Sakai, manager, International Space Station, JAXA
David Parker, director, Human and Robotic Exploration, ESA
2 p.m. – Crew News Conference with the following participants:

Astronaut Shane Kimbrough, spacecraft commander, NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission
Astronaut Megan McArthur, pilot, NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission
Astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, mission specialist, NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission
Astronaut Thomas Pesquet, mission specialist, NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission
3:30 p.m. – Round Robin Crew Interviews

Crew-2 astronauts will be available for a limited number of remote interviews following the news conference.
Shane Kimbrough is commander of the Crew Dragon spacecraft and the Crew-2 mission. Kimbrough is responsible for all phases of flight, from launch to re-entry. He also will serve as an Expedition 65 flight engineer aboard the station. Selected as a NASA astronaut in 2004, Kimbrough first launched aboard space shuttle Endeavour for a visit to the station on the STS-126 mission in 2008, then aboard a Russian Soyuz spacecraft for Expedition 49/50 in 2016. He has spent a total of 189 days in space, and performed six spacewalks. Kimbrough also is a retired U.S. Army colonel and earned a bachelor’s degree in aerospace engineering from the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, and a master’s degree in operations research from the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta.

Megan McArthur is the pilot of the Crew Dragon spacecraft and second-in-command for the mission. McArthur is responsible for spacecraft systems and performance. She also will be a long-duration space station crew member, making her first trip to the space station. Selected as an astronaut in 2000, McArthur launched on space shuttle Atlantis as a mission specialist on STS-125, the final Hubble Space Telescope servicing mission, in 2009. McArthur operated the shuttle’s robotic arm over the course of the 12 days, 21 hours she spent in space, capturing the telescope and moving crew members during the five spacewalks needed to repair and upgrade it. She holds a bachelor’s degree in aerospace engineering from the University of California, Los Angeles, and a doctorate in oceanography from the University of California, San Diego.

Akihiko Hoshide is a mission specialist for Crew-2. As a mission specialist, he will work closely with the commander and pilot to monitor the vehicle during the dynamic launch and re-entry phases of flight. Once aboard the station, Hoshide will become a flight engineer for Expedition 65. Hoshide joined the National Space Development Agency of Japan (NASDA, currently JAXA) in 1992 and was selected as an astronaut candidate in February 1999. Hoshide is a veteran of two spaceflights. In June 2008, he flew to the International Space Station on the STS-124 mission to deliver the Japanese Experiment Module "Kibo" to the International Space Station. From July to November 2012, he stayed on the space station for 124 days as a flight engineer for the Expedition 32/33 mission. The Crew Dragon will be the third spacecraft that Noguchi has flown to the orbiting laboratory.

Thomas Pesquet will also be a mission specialist for Crew-2, working with the commander and pilot to monitor the vehicle during the dynamic launch and re-entry phases of flight. Pesquet also will become a long-duration crew member aboard the space station. He was selected as an astronaut candidate by ESA in May 2009 and worked as a Eurocom, communicating with astronauts during spaceflights from the mission control center. He previously flew as part of Expeditions 50 and 51, launching aboard a Russian Soyuz spacecraft and spending 196 days in space. His mission also included two spacewalks to maintain the station: one to replace batteries on an electrical channel, and one to fix a cooling leak and service the robotic arm.

Follow Kimbrough on social media at:

https://twitter.com/astro_kimbrough

Follow McArthur on social media at:

https://twitter.com/Astro_Megan

Follow Hoshide on social media at:

https://twitter.com/Aki_Hoshide

Follow Pesquet on social media at:

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro

Learn more about the Commercial Crew Program at:

https://www.nasa.gov/commercialcrew
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 02/24/2021 10:14 pm
Mission paperwork has been filed with the FCC for communications during Falcon 9 launch and recovery operations.


0249-EX-ST-2021 (https://fcc.report/ELS/Space-Exploration-Technologies-Corp-SpaceX/0249-EX-ST-2021)

Quote
This application uses information from previous grant 1335-EX-ST-2020. This STA is necessary to authorize launch vehicle communications for SpaceX Mission 1402 launching from LC-39a at KSC, and the experimental recovery operation following the Falcon 9 launch. The application includes a sub-orbital first stage, and an orbital second stage. Trajectory data shall be provided directly to NTIA, USAF, and NASA. All downrange Earth stations are receive-only. All operations are pre-coordinated with the Launch Range. Launch licensing authority is FAA Office of Commercial Space Transportation.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 03/01/2021 02:48 pm
https://twitter.com/nasa_johnson/status/1366403318793273346

Quote
We're hosting two briefings today on NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission to the @Space_Station.

📺: 12:30 p.m. ET | With Crew-2 leaders from NASA, @SpaceX, and @JAXA_en

📺: 2 p.m. ET | With @astro_kimbrough, @Astro_Megan, @Aki_Hoshide, and @Thom_astro

Send questions using #askNASA!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 03/01/2021 04:31 pm
https://youtu.be/9I8lvxoljvw
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 03/01/2021 05:55 pm
https://youtu.be/m3_C91gNU4A
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 03/01/2021 11:46 pm
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1366445151250481158
Quote
NASA’s Steve Stich says Crew-2 is still no earlier than April 20, but may adjust date to optimize orbital mechanics. Still  looking to fly between Soyuz missions in early April and beta cutout in May.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 03/02/2021 06:53 am
https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1366446443960160258

Quote
NASA's Steve Stich confirms all remains on track to fly a used first stage for the Crew-2 mission in April. Completed a certification review last Friday.

This is a huge milestone for reusable rockets—NASA putting its most valuable missions on them.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: theonlyspace on 03/02/2021 02:50 pm
Do we have written transcripts of these two mission briefings from March 1 ?Please
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 03/04/2021 05:01 pm
Following on:
Quote from: Jeff Foust tweet
NASA’s Steve Stich says Crew-2 is still no earlier than April 20, but may adjust date to optimize orbital mechanics. Still  looking to fly between Soyuz missions in early April and beta cutout in May.

Update of March 3:
http://www.launchphotography.com/Launch_Viewing_Guide.html
Quote
FALCON 9
<snip>The next Crew Dragon carrying four astronauts to the International Space Station is targeted for late April around 6am EDT. Sunrise is 6:49am. The launch time gets 22-26 minutes earlier each day.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jimmy10 on 03/05/2021 10:04 am
Hope it's ok to ask a question on an update thread?  Is it now likely that (think I've seen slippage notification somewhere) this flight will take place before the Boeing next test flight?  i.e. SpaceX will have flown 3 crewed flights, one reusing both a booster and capsule before Boeing have flown once (un-crewed) to the ISS.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: scr00chy on 03/05/2021 10:37 am
Hope it's ok to ask a question on an update thread?  Is it now likely that (think I've seen slippage notification somewhere) this flight will take place before the Boeing next test flight?  i.e. SpaceX will have flown 3 crewed flights, one reusing both a booster and capsule before Boeing have flown once (un-crewed) to the ISS.

Correct. Boeing said it's unlikely they will be able to launch OFT-2 in April due to ISS scheduling, while Crew-2 is currently expected to launch in late April.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 03/05/2021 07:46 pm
https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1367938889969713160

Quote
NASA and SpaceX have pushed the launch date of the Crew-2 mission from April 20 to NET April 22, likely in search of an optimal launch window.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 03/06/2021 01:08 am
Cross-posts:
http://www.launchphotography.com/Launch_Viewing_Guide.html
Quote
FALCON 9
The next Crew Dragon carrying four astronauts to the International Space Station is targeted for April 22 at 6:11am EDT. Sunrise is 6:49am. The launch time gets 22-26 minutes earlier each day.

https://www.nasa.gov/launchschedule/#.U0NkJ6L-6c4
Quote
No Earlier Than: April 22, 2021
Mission: NASA, SpaceX Crew-2 Mission to the International Space Station
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 03/08/2021 02:40 pm
https://spaceflightnow.com/2021/03/05/next-crew-dragon-launch-set-for-april-22/

Quote
The launch time April 22 is set for 6:11 a.m. EDT (1011 GMT), a NASA spokesperson said.

Quote
Assuming the mission — designated Crew-2 — takes off as scheduled April 22, the Crew Dragon will dock with the space station around 7:05 a.m. EDT (1105 GMT) on April 23, the NASA spokesperson told Spaceflight Now.

Launch and docking times are from NASA, as currently targeted.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jacqmans on 03/11/2021 03:24 pm
Call for media: Pre-launch press briefing with ESA astronaut Thomas Pesquet
[11.03.2021]

Media representatives are invited to a virtual press event with ESA astronaut Thomas Pesquet on Tuesday 16 March from 10:30–11:30 GMT (11:30–12:30 CET) to learn more about his second International Space Station mission.

Set to launch on 22 April, Thomas will be the first ESA astronaut to fly on a SpaceX Crew Dragon being launched on a Falcon 9 rocket from Florida, USA. He will accompany NASA astronauts Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur and JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide.

Thomas’ mission is called Alpha after the star Alpha Centauri, located in the same system as Proxima, the name of his first mission.

Thomas is preparing for his launch and training on a new Dragon spacecraft.

 
Programme
11:30–12:30 CET: Press briefing, online

Participants
Josef Aschbacher, ESA Director General
Kirsten MacDonell, ESA ISS Utilisation Planning Team Leader
Thomas Pesquet, ESA Astronaut
Didier Schmitt, Head of the ESA Human and Robotic Exploration Strategy & Coordination Group


This press event will take place online in English and French.

The press conference will be streamed at esawebtv.esa.int
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jacqmans on 03/12/2021 04:05 pm
https://youtu.be/J4Dg3zwCK_0
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 03/14/2021 02:38 pm
https://twitter.com/astro_kimbrough/status/1371120754771779591
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 03/16/2021 01:19 pm
https://twitter.com/moniks91/status/1371812148528222212

Quote
@Thom_astro will be the fourth European commander to command the ISS, after Frank de Winne in 2009, @Astro_Alex in 2018 and @astro_luca in 2019.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 03/18/2021 04:49 pm
Mission paperwork has been filed with the FCC for communications during Falcon 9 launch and recovery operations.

0249-EX-ST-2021 (https://fcc.report/ELS/Space-Exploration-Technologies-Corp-SpaceX/0249-EX-ST-2021)

Quote
This application uses information from previous grant 1335-EX-ST-2020. This STA is necessary to authorize launch vehicle communications for SpaceX Mission 1402 launching from LC-39a at KSC, and the experimental recovery operation following the Falcon 9 launch. The application includes a sub-orbital first stage, and an orbital second stage. Trajectory data shall be provided directly to NTIA, USAF, and NASA. All downrange Earth stations are receive-only. All operations are pre-coordinated with the Launch Range. Launch licensing authority is FAA Office of Commercial Space Transportation.

Authorization has been granted
https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.html?id=269744
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 03/23/2021 02:10 pm
0400-EX-ST-2021

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=106219

This application uses information from grant 1728-EX-ST-2020. STA is necessary for SARSAT (search and rescue) beacon on the Crew Dragon capsule for the Crew-2 mission. This system uses the COSPAS-SARSAT TAC #706 (type certification) for the beacon, with a custom antenna that is not type certified. A one-time waiver for Crew-2 is submitted as an exhibit to support this temporary authorization for Crew-2 return mission.

Purpose of Operation
Post-splashdown emergency location beacon to support search and rescue operations of the Crew-2 Dragon spacecraft in coordination with Air Force DET3.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nomadd on 03/23/2021 02:12 pm
0400-EX-ST-2021

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/els/reports/STA_Print.cfm?mode=current&application_seq=106219

This application uses information from grant 1728-EX-ST-2020. STA is necessary for SARSAT (search and rescue) beacon on the Crew Dragon capsule for the Crew-2 mission. This system uses the COSPAS-SARSAT TAC #706 (type certification) for the beacon, with a custom antenna that is not type certified. A one-time waiver for Crew-2 is submitted as an exhibit to support this temporary authorization for Crew-2 return mission.

Purpose of Operation
Post-splashdown emergency location beacon to support search and rescue operations of the Crew-2 Dragon spacecraft in coordination with Air Force DET3.

I can just see one of them going to BassPro and picking up an off the shelf EPIRB just in case.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 03/29/2021 09:04 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1376616228224131078
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 03/30/2021 09:41 am
Quote
From left, European Space Agency (ESA) astronaut Thomas Pesquet, Crew-2 mission specialist; NASA astronaut Megan McArthur, Crew-2 pilot;  NASA astronaut Shane Kimbrough, Crew-2 spacecraft commander;  and  Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, Crew-2 mission specialist.

credits: SpaceX
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 03/30/2021 04:50 pm
https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2021/03/29/nasa-spacex-continue-crew-2-mission-reviews-while-preparing-for-crew-1-return/

Quote
Following the latest in a series of reviews for the second crew rotation mission with astronauts on an American rocket and spacecraft from the United States, NASA and SpaceX managers and engineers continue to prepare for launch of the Crew-2 mission to the International Space Station no earlier than 6:11 a.m. EDT Thursday, April 22. Mission teams also are targeting the return of the Crew-1 astronauts on Wednesday, April 28, with undocking about 5 a.m. and splashdown approximately 12:35 p.m. off the coast of Florida.

The most recent review on Monday hosted by the International Space Station Program is one of several reviews that include SpaceX and the Commercial Crew Program culminating with the Flight Readiness Review (FRR) April 15. That FRR formally sets the official launch time and date.

With Crew-2 mission preparations continuing, Crew-1 astronauts also are preparing to relocate the Crew Dragon Resilience spacecraft from one space station docking port to another on April 5 to clear the desired location for Crew-2’s arrival. This is the start of a process that allows Crew-2 to dock to the Harmony Node 2 forward port, freeing up the Node 2 Zenith port – following Crew-1 departure – for extraction of the new solar arrays from the SpaceX CRS-22 cargo mission’s trunk when it arrives.

Crew-2 will be the first mission to fly two international partner crew members as part of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program.

NASA astronauts Shane Kimbrough and  Megan McArthur will serve as spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively. Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, and European Space Agency (ESA) astronaut Thomas Pesquet will join as mission specialists.

Following a short handover, Crew-1 NASA astronauts Michael Hopkins, Victor Glover and Shannon Walker, along with JAXA astronaut Soichi Noguchi, plan to return home off the coast of Florida about five days after the Crew-2 arrival to the space station as long as mission priorities and weather cooperate.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 03/30/2021 07:43 pm
jsc2021e010834 (March 25, 2021) --- Astronaut Megan McArthur of NASA, SpaceX Crew-2 Pilot, is pictured in her pressure suit during a training session at SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne, California. Credit: SpaceX

jsc2021e010828 (March 2, 2021) --- Astronaut Thomas Pesquet of ESA (European Space Agency) is pictured during training for the SpaceX Crew-2 mission to the International Space Station. Pesquet, Crew-2 Mission Specialist, is wearing a pressure suit during training activities at SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne, California. Credit: SpaceX

jsc2021e010832 (March 3, 2021) --- The crew for the second long-duration SpaceX Crew Dragon mission to the International Space Station, NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2, are pictured during a training session at the SpaceX training facility in Hawthorne, California. From left are, Mission Specialist Thomas Pesquet of the (ESA (European Space Agency); Pilot Megan McArthur of NASA; Commander Shane Kimbrough of NASA; and Mission Specialist Akihiko Hoshide of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency. Credit: SpaceX

jsc2021e010833 (March 25, 2021) --- The crew for the second long-duration SpaceX Crew Dragon mission to the International Space Station, NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2, are pictured during a training session at the SpaceX training facility in Hawthorne, California. From left are, Mission Specialist Thomas Pesquet of the (ESA (European Space Agency); Pilot Megan McArthur of NASA; Commander Shane Kimbrough of NASA; and Mission Specialist Akihiko Hoshide of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency. Credit: SpaceX

jsc2021e010836 (March 25, 2021) --- The crew for the second long-duration SpaceX Crew Dragon mission to the International Space Station, NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2, are pictured during a training session at the SpaceX training facility in Hawthorne, California. From left are, Mission Specialist Thomas Pesquet of the (ESA (European Space Agency); Pilot Megan McArthur of NASA; Commander Shane Kimbrough of NASA; and Mission Specialist Akihiko Hoshide of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency. Credit: SpaceX
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 03/30/2021 07:53 pm
jsc2021e010832_ (March 3, 2021) --- The crew for the second long-duration SpaceX Crew Dragon mission to the International Space Station, NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2, are pictured during a training session at the SpaceX training facility in Hawthorne, California. From left are, Mission Specialist Thomas Pesquet of the ESA (European Space Agency); Pilot Megan McArthur of NASA; Commander Shane Kimbrough of NASA; and Mission Specialist Akihiko Hoshide of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency. Credit: SpaceX

jsc2021e010832__ (March 5, 2021) --- Astronaut Akihiko Hoshide of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency is pictured during training for the SpaceX Crew-2 mission to the International Space Station. Hoshide, Crew-2 Mission Specialist, is wearing a pressure suit during training activities at SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne, California. Credit: SpaceX

jsc2021e010829 (March 5, 2021) --- Astronaut Akihiko Hoshide of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency is pictured during training for the SpaceX Crew-2 mission to the International Space Station. Hoshide, Crew-2 Mission Specialist, is wearing a pressure suit during training activities at SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne, California. Credit: SpaceX

jsc2021e010826 (March 24, 2021) --- Astronaut Thomas Pesquet of ESA (European Space Agency), SpaceX Crew-2 Mission Specialist, poses for a portrait in his pressure suit at SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne, California. Credit: SpaceX

jsc2021e010823 (March 24, 2021) --- Astronaut Megan McArthur of NASA, SpaceX Crew-2 Pilot, poses for a portrait in her pressure suit at SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne, California. Credit: SpaceX

jsc2021e010824 (March 24, 2021) --- Astronaut Shane Kimbrough of NASA, SpaceX Crew-2 Commander, poses for a portrait in his pressure suit at SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne, California. Credit: SpaceX

jsc2021e010825 (March 24, 2021) --- Astronaut Akihiko Hoshide of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency, SpaceX Crew-2 Mission Specialist, poses for a portrait in his pressure suit at SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne, California. Credit: SpaceX
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 03/30/2021 10:09 pm
Mar 30, 2021
NASA Invites Public to Share Excitement of Agency’s SpaceX Crew-2 Mission

By Emily McLeod Sulkes
NASA's Kennedy Space Center

NASA invites the public to take part in virtual activities and events ahead of the agency’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission. Liftoff of the Crew Dragon spacecraft and Falcon 9 rocket with astronauts is targeted for no earlier than 6:11 a.m. EDT Thursday, April 22, from Launch Complex 39A at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission will carry NASA astronauts Shane Kimbrough and  Megan McArthur – who will serve as the mission’s spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively – along with Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide and ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet, who will serve as mission specialists. 

The crew is scheduled to work aboard the International Space Station through the fall of 2021, conducting science research in areas such as medical technology, human health, and materials to benefit life on Earth.

Live coverage and countdown commentary will begin at 2 a.m. EDT on NASA Television and the agency’s website, as well as YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitch, Daily Motion, and Theta.TV.

Members of the public can attend the launch virtually, receiving mission updates and opportunities normally reserved for on-site guests. NASA’s virtual guest experience for Crew-2 includes curated launch resources, a behind-the-scenes look at the mission, notifications about NASA social interactions, and the opportunity for a virtual launch passport stamp following a successful launch.

Organizations hosting launch-focused events are also encouraged to register and let NASA know that you’re doing so. This would include school groups, museums, or even colleagues watching together! If you plan to gather in person with others to watch the launch, NASA recommends following all Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines and local rules regarding COVID-19.

Members of the public and organizations can share in the journey through a variety of activities, including:

Virtual Launch Passport

Print, fold, and get ready to fill your virtual passport. Stamps will be emailed following launches to those who register via email through Eventbrite.

Watch and Engage on Social Media

Stay connected with the mission on social media, and let people know you’re following Crew-2 on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram using the hashtag #LaunchAmerica. Follow and tag these accounts:

    Twitter: @NASA, @Commercial_Crew, @Space_Station, @NASAKennedy
    Facebook: NASA, NASACommercialCrew, ISS Facebook, Kennedy Space Center
    Instagram: NASA, ISS Instagram, NASAKennedy

Click here (https://www.nasa.gov/subject/19027/crew2/) to find out more about the Crew-2 mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: hektor on 03/31/2021 07:50 am
The flight suit boots look different from the previous missions. Have they been modified ?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: smoliarm on 03/31/2021 08:21 am
The flight suit boots look different from the previous missions. Have they been modified ?
Yes - now the boots are higher and design look different:
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: StuffOfInterest on 03/31/2021 06:45 pm
The flight suit boots look different from the previous missions. Have they been modified ?
Yes - now the boots are higher and design look different:
I believe those are just protective covers on the boots.  If you zoom in, you can see they come up over the pleats on the suit legs instead of integrating into the suit.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: smoliarm on 03/31/2021 08:04 pm
The flight suit boots look different from the previous missions. Have they been modified ?
Yes - now the boots are higher and design look different:
I believe those are just protective covers on the boots.  If you zoom in, you can see they come up over the pleats on the suit legs instead of integrating into the suit.
AIUI, boots are NOT integrated into the suit - for both variants. Both boot variants have zippers on the inner side - take closer look.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: XenIneX on 03/31/2021 10:52 pm
The flight suit boots look different from the previous missions. Have they been modified ?
Yes - now the boots are higher and design look different:
I believe those are just protective covers on the boots.  If you zoom in, you can see they come up over the pleats on the suit legs instead of integrating into the suit.
AIUI, boots are NOT integrated into the suit - for both variants. Both boot variants have zippers on the inner side - take closer look.
Boots aside, there's different pleating at the knees as well, and different piping around it.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 04/01/2021 09:16 am
The flags are also now on the left shoulder instead of the right shoulder, so no need to show the flag "backwards" like was done on the last missions.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: TJL on 04/01/2021 11:51 am
The flags are also now on the left shoulder instead of the right shoulder, so no need to show the flag "backwards" like was done on the last missions.
Similar to the Apollo program...Apollo 1 crew had the flag on their upper right arm (and truly backwards) and starting with Apollo 7 was on their left arm.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ZachS09 on 04/01/2021 02:58 pm
If the 6:11 AM on April 22nd launch date stands for the next three weeks, this twilight launch should be visible for those on the East Coast. It'll be 39 minutes before sunrise on that day.

Website: https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/ (https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/)

Coordinates: 28.6082009, -80.6041298
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/01/2021 03:15 pm
https://twitter.com/astro_kimbrough/status/1377062743363162114

Quote
Incredible training day @NASAKennedy!  Got to test out our new flight suits in the real spacecraft.  @SpaceX team has Endeavour and the Falcon 9 looking amazing.  GO Crew-2! #nasa #spacex #esa #jaxa #crewdragon
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: TJL on 04/01/2021 06:30 pm
If the 6:11 AM on April 22nd launch date stands for the next three weeks, this twilight launch should be visible for those on the East Coast. It'll be 39 minutes before sunrise on that day.

Website: https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/ (https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/)

Coordinates: 28.6082009, -80.6041298

I hope it does...we got to see quite a few shuttle launches prior to MECO from Long Island, NY. Looking forward to my first Falcon 9!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 04/01/2021 11:24 pm
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/04/spacex-nasa-preparations-crew-2/

SpaceX and NASA entering final preparations for Crew-2 launch

Check out the official NASA SpaceFlight pre-mission article.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: glanmor05 on 04/02/2021 09:06 am
Great article, as always. No mention is made to any solar panel upgrades for Dragon. I thought this is what limited it's time at the ISS during the Demo 2 mission and for a longer duration flight, changes would be required?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vettedrmr on 04/02/2021 12:19 pm
Great article, as always. No mention is made to any solar panel upgrades for Dragon. I thought this is what limited it's time at the ISS during the Demo 2 mission and for a longer duration flight, changes would be required?

AIUI that was already implemented for Crew-1.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/02/2021 04:19 pm
https://twitter.com/astro_kimbrough/status/1378017504560345090

Quote
L-3 weeks and we are ready! So proud to be launching to the @Space_Station with this crew. Will you be watching #LaunchAmerica?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 04/02/2021 10:32 pm
From the NASA TV schedule:
Quote
April 22, Thursday
2 a.m. – Coverage of the launch of the SpaceX Crew Dragon “Endeavour” to the International Space Station and continuous coverage through docking (Kimbrough, McArthur, Hoshide, Pesquet; launch scheduled at 6:11 a.m. EDT; docking on April 23 scheduled at 5:30 a.m. EDT) – Kennedy Space Center/Johnson Space Center/Hawthorne, Calif. (All Channels)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: glanmor05 on 04/05/2021 10:52 am
Yes, but solar panel changes not made on THIS  Dragon prior to Crew 1?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: drnscr on 04/05/2021 11:23 am
Yes, but solar panel changes not made on THIS  Dragon prior to Crew 1?

Now, I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer but the aren’t the solar panels on the trunk?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jimmy10 on 04/05/2021 12:35 pm
OMG!!!!  ::)  Thanks OBO Glanmor
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gongora on 04/05/2021 08:38 pm
https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2021/04/05/nasa-spacex-relocate-crew-1-dragon-more-crewed-flight-preps-continue/
Quote
NASA and SpaceX are continuing to prepare for the Crew-3 mission, targeted as early as Saturday, Oct. 23, followed by return of Crew-2 no earlier than Sunday, Oct. 31.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 04/05/2021 08:45 pm
Yes, but solar panel changes not made on THIS  Dragon prior to Crew 1?

Now, I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer but the aren’t the solar panels on the trunk?

Yes, new trunk with new panels. Several other upgrades were implemented as well.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/05/2021 10:12 pm
https://twitter.com/alteredjamie/status/1379177293063524364

Quote
If you look closely, you'll notice the members of #Crew2 aren't *just* holding up two fingers, but dirty fingers because they've marked their initials in the soot of their reflow[n] #Falcon9 booster behind them.

Possible new crew tradition only applicable to #SpaceX crews??

Edit to add: tweet below and image

https://twitter.com/djsnm/status/1379198269830488069

Quote
The space equivalent of writing 'Clean Me' on a dirty car.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/08/2021 04:20 pm
https://twitter.com/katlinegrey/status/1380167155950489601
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jacqmans on 04/08/2021 04:30 pm
Akihiko Hoshide of JAXA and Thomas Pesquet of ESA during training at SpaceX Headquarters in Hawthorne, California.
March 26, 2021
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Targeteer on 04/10/2021 05:11 am
April 09, 2021
MEDIA ADVISORY M21-042
Coverage Set for NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 Briefings, Events, Broadcasts
The crew for the second long-duration SpaceX Crew Dragon mission to the International Space Station, NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2

NASA will provide coverage of the upcoming prelaunch and launch activities for the agency’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission with astronauts to the International Space Station. This is the second crew rotation flight of the SpaceX Crew Dragon and the first with two international partners. The flight follows certification by NASA for regular flights to the space station as part of the agency’s Commercial Crew Program.

The launch, on a Falcon 9 rocket, is targeted for 6:11 a.m. EDT Thursday, April 22, from Launch Complex 39A at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The Crew Dragon is scheduled to dock to the space station about 5:30 a.m. Friday, April. 23. Prelaunch activities, launch, and docking will air live on NASA Television, the NASA app, and the agency’s website.

The Crew-2 flight will carry NASA astronauts Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur – who will serve as the mission’s spacecraft commander and pilot, respectively – along with JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency)  astronaut Akihiko Hoshide and ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet, who will serve as mission specialists to the space station for a six-month science mission.

The deadline has passed for media accreditation for in-person coverage of this launch. More information about media accreditation is available by emailing: [email protected]

All media participation in the following news conferences will be remote except where specifically listed below, and only a limited number of media will be accommodated at Kennedy due to the ongoing coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic. Please note that the Kennedy Press Site facilities will remain closed throughout these events for the protection of Kennedy employees and journalists, except for a limited number of media who will receive confirmation in writing in the coming days.

NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission coverage is as follows (all times Eastern):

Thursday, April 15

6 p.m. – Flight Readiness Review (FRR) Media Teleconference at Kennedy (no earlier than one hour after completion of the Flight Readiness Review) with the following participants:

    Kathy Lueders, associate administrator, Human Exploration and Operations, NASA Headquarters
    Steve Stich, manager, NASA Commercial Crew Program, Kennedy
    Joel Montalbano, manager, International Space Station, NASA’s Johnson Space Center
    Norm Knight, deputy manager, Flight Operations Directorate, Johnson
    SpaceX representative
    Junichi Sakai, manager, International Space Station Program, JAXA
    Frank de Winne, manager, International Space Station Program, ESA
    Randy Repcheck, acting director, Operational Safety, Federal Aviation Administration

Media may ask questions via phone only. For the dial-in number and passcode, please contact the Kennedy newsroom no later than 5 p.m. Thursday, April 15, at: [email protected]

Friday, April 16

1 p.m. (approximately) – Crew Arrival Media Event at Kennedy with the following participants (limited, previously confirmed in-person media only):

    Steve Jurczyk, acting NASA administrator
    Bob Cabana, center director, Kennedy
    Junichi Sakai, manager, International Space Station Program, JAXA
    Frank de Winne, manager, International Space Station Program, ESA
    NASA astronaut Shane Kimbrough, spacecraft commander
    NASA astronaut Megan McArthur, pilot
    JAXA astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, mission specialist
    ESA astronaut Thomas Pesquet, mission specialist

No teleconference option is available for this event.

Saturday, April 17

9:45 a.m. – Virtual Crew Media Engagement at Kennedy with Crew-2 astronauts:

    NASA astronaut Shane Kimbrough, spacecraft commander
    NASA astronaut Megan McArthur, pilot
    JAXA astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, mission specialist
    ESA astronaut Thomas Pesquet, mission specialist

Media may ask questions via phone only. For the dial-in number and passcode, please contact the Johnson newsroom at no later than 5 p.m. Friday, April. 16, at: [email protected]

Monday, April 19

1 p.m. – Science Media Teleconference to discuss investigations Crew-2 will support during their mission

    ISS U.S. National Laboratory Senior Program Director Dr. Liz Warren will discuss Tissue Engineering, which uses a combination of cells, engineering, and materials to restore, maintain, improve, or replace biological tissues. Scientists will leverage microgravity, which allows cells to grow without scaffolding and in ways that mimic tissues in the human body.
    Dr. Lucie Low from the National Institutes of Health will discuss Tissue Chips, complex bioengineered 3D models that mimic the structure and function of human organ systems. Scientists use tissue chips to test the potential effects of drugs on those tissues and to study diseases.
    ISS Program Scientist for Earth Observations Dr. William Stefanov will discuss Crew Earth Observations. Astronauts have taken more than 3.5 million images of Earth from the space station, contributing to one of the longest-running records of how Earth has changed over time.
    NASA Project Manager for ISS Power Augmentation Bryan Griffith will discuss the ISS Roll-out Solar Array compact solar panels that roll open like a yoga mat. In 2017, the basic design underwent testing on the space station to determine its strength and durability, and NASA will deliver the first two of six new arrays that will be delivered this summer to augment the station’s power.

Media may ask questions via phone. For the dial-in number and passcode, please email Stephanie Schierholz no later than 8 a.m. Monday, April. 19, at: [email protected]

Tuesday, April 20

TBD – Prelaunch News Conference at Kennedy (no earlier than one hour after completion of the Launch Readiness Review) with the following participants:

    Steve Stich, manager, Commercial Crew Program, Kennedy
    Joel Montalbano, manager, International Space Station, Johnson
    Kirt Costello, chief scientist, International Space Station Program, Johnson
    Norm Knight, deputy manager, Flight Operations Directorate, Johnson
    Benji Reed, senior director, Human Spaceflight Programs, SpaceX
    Junichi Sakai, manager, International Space Station Program, JAXA
    Frank de Winne, manager, International Space Station Program, ESA
    Brian Cizek, launch weather officer, U.S. Air Force 45th Weather Squadron

Media may ask questions via phone only. For the dial-in number and passcode, please contact the Kennedy newsroom no later than noon Tuesday, April 20, at [email protected]

Wednesday, April 21

10 a.m. – Administrator Countdown Clock Briefing with the following participants (limited, previously confirmed in-person media only):

    Steve Jurczyk, acting NASA administrator
    Bob Cabana, Kennedy center director
    Hiroshi Sasaki, vice president and director general, JAXA’s Human Spaceflight Technology Directorate
    Frank de Winne, manager, International Space Station Program, ESA
    NASA astronaut
    NASA astronaut

No teleconference option is available for this event.

Thursday, April 22

2 a.m. – NASA Television launch coverage begins. NASA Television will have continuous coverage, including docking, hatch opening, and welcome ceremony, with a news conference following docking activities.

7:30 a.m. (approximately) – Postlaunch news conference with the following participants:

    Steve Jurczyk, acting NASA administrator
    Kathy Lueders, associate administrator, Human Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate, NASA Headquarters
    Hiroshi Sasaki, vice president and director general, JAXA’s Human Spaceflight Technology Directorate
    Frank de Winne, manager, International Space Station Program, ESA
    SpaceX representative

Media may ask questions via phone only. For the dial-in number and passcode, please contact the Kennedy newsroom no later than 7 a.m. Thursday, April 22, at: [email protected]

Friday, April 23

5:30 a.m. – Docking

7:35 a.m. – Hatch Opening

8:05 a.m. – Welcome Ceremony from the International Space Station with the following participants:

    Kathy Lueders, associate administrator, Human Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate, NASA Headquarters
    Hiroshi Yamakawa, president, JAXA
    Josef Aschbacher, director general, ESA

NASA TV Launch Coverage

NASA TV live coverage will begin at 2 a.m. For NASA TV downlink information, schedules, and links to streaming video, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/live

Audio only of the news conferences and launch coverage will be carried on the NASA “V” circuits, which may be accessed by dialing 321-867-1220, -1240, -1260 or -7135. On launch day, "mission audio," countdown activities without NASA TV launch commentary, will be carried on 321-867-7135.

On launch day, a “clean feed” of the launch without NASA TV commentary will be carried on the NASA TV media channel. Launch also will be available on local amateur VHF radio frequency 146.940 MHz and UHF radio frequency 444.925 MHz, heard within Brevard County on the Space Coast.

NASA Website Launch Coverage

Launch day coverage of NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission will be available on the agency’s website. Coverage will include livestreaming and blog updates beginning no earlier than 2 a.m. Thursday, April 22, as the countdown milestones occur. On-demand streaming video and photos of the launch will be available shortly after liftoff. For questions about countdown coverage, contact the Kennedy newsroom at: 321-867-2468. Follow countdown coverage on our launch blog at:

http://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew

Additional Media Opportunities

Live shots and remote live interviews via Zoom will be offered in English and Spanish from 6 a.m. to 1 p.m. Wednesday, April 21. To book a live shot window, media should complete and submit the form available at:

 https://forms.gle/LR3vWx1oC7eKeyzn9

Interview requests outside that window can be arranged by reaching out to Laura Aguiar [email protected] at Kennedy. Additional questions should be directed to the Kennedy News Center: 321-867-2468.

Public Participation

NASA invites the public to take part in virtual activities and events ahead of the launch. Members of the public can attend the launch virtually, receiving mission updates and opportunities normally reserved for on-site guests.

NASA’s virtual launch experience for Crew-2 includes curated launch resources, a digital boarding pass, notifications about NASA Social interactions, and the opportunity for a virtual launch passport stamp following a successful launch.

Register for email updates or RSVP to the Facebook event for social media updates to stay up-to-date on mission information, mission highlights, and interaction opportunities.

Print, fold, and get ready to fill your virtual launch passport. Stamps will be emailed following launches to all virtual attendees registered by email through Eventbrite.

Engage kids and students in virtual and hands-on activities that are both family-friendly and educational through [//C:/Users/dhuot/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/Content.Outlook/A3VELEDB/Next Gen STEM Commercial Crew]Next Gen STEM Commercial Crew.

Watch and Engage on Social Media

Stay connected with the mission on social media via Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram using the hashtag #LaunchAmerica. Follow and tag these accounts:

    Twitter: @NASA, @Commercial_Crew, @Space_Station, @NASAKennedy
    Facebook: NASA, NASA Commercial Crew, ISS Facebook, Kennedy Space Center
    Instagram: NASA, ISS Instagram, NASAKennedy

NASA will provide a live video feed of Launch Complex 39A approximately 48 hours prior to the planned liftoff of the Crew-2 mission. Pending unlikely technical issues, the feed will be uninterrupted until the prelaunch broadcast begins on NASA TV, approximately four hours prior to launch.

Once the feed is live, it will be available here:

http://youtube.com/kscnewsroom

Make sure to check out NASA en Espanol on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube for more Spanish-language coverage on Crew-2.

Para obtener información sobre cobertura en español en el Centro Espacial Kennedy o si desea solicitar entrevistas en español, comuníquese con Kristina Irastorza 321-607-4073 y Antonia Jaramillo 321-501-8425.

NASA’s Commercial Crew Program has delivered on its goal of safe, reliable, and cost-effective transportation to and from the International Space Station from the United States through a partnership with American private industry. This partnership is changing the arc of human spaceflight history by opening access to low-Earth orbit and the International Space Station to more people, more science, and more commercial opportunities. The space station remains the springboard to NASA's next great leap in space exploration, including future missions to the Moon and, eventually, to Mars.

For NASA's launch blog and more information about the mission, visit:

https://www.nasa.gov/commercialcrew
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ken the Bin on 04/12/2021 01:37 pm
NGA notice for what I assume is a static fire, Saturday, April 17, 04:31 to 17:02 UTC.  (Notice needed because of the possibility of a Dragon abort being triggered.)

Quote from: NGA
120606Z APR 21
NAVAREA IV 300/21(11).
WESTERN NORTH ATLANTIC.
FLORIDA.
1. HAZARDOUS OPERATIONS, ROCKET LAUNCHING
   170431Z TO 171702Z APR IN AREA BOUND BY
   28-38-01N 80-36-59W, 28-39-00N 80-35-00W,
   28-38-00N 80-33-00W, 28-37-00N 80-33-00W,
   28-36-00N 80-35-00W, 28-36-00N 80-35-11W.
2. CANCEL THIS MSG 171802Z APR 21.

Edit: Fixed minor typo.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/12/2021 03:13 pm
https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1381529038217433090
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/12/2021 06:55 pm
https://twitter.com/launchphoto/status/1381681724405522437

Quote
The Crew-2 launch is at T-10 days. These guys are excited. Liftoff remains targeted for April 22 @ 6:11 a.m. EDT.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/13/2021 10:32 am
https://twitter.com/Astro_Megan/status/1381804705110761474
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/13/2021 07:57 pm
Emergency training with Expedition 65 crew: Pyotr, Oleg and @Astro_Sabot who flew with Soyuz to the @Space_Station and
@astro_kimbrough, @Astro_Megan, @Aki_Hoshide and myself arriving by @SpaceX Dragon!


https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1382010988468260865
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/13/2021 10:57 pm
What Will SPACEX CREWED MISSION Look Like?

https://youtu.be/mrhNq5-Wznk
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/14/2021 07:04 am
https://twitter.com/commercial_crew/status/1382126994595401729

Quote
The Crew-2 astronauts entered quarantine on April 8 in preparation for their flight to the @Space_Station.

Spending the final weeks before launch in quarantine will help ensure the crew is healthy, protecting themselves and those already on the station: go.nasa.gov/3a8TyBC

Edit to add:

https://blogs.nasa.gov/crew-2/2021/04/13/spacex-crew-2-astronauts-enter-quarantine-for-mission-to-space-station/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/14/2021 09:34 am
SpaceX Crew-2 Astronauts Enter Quarantine for Mission to Space Station

Linda Herridge Posted on April 13, 2021

NASA astronauts Shane Kimbrough and  Megan McArthur, JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, and ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet, entered their official quarantine period beginning Thursday, April 8, in preparation for their flight to the International Space Station on NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission. They will lift off at 6:11 a.m. EDT Thursday, April 22, aboard the SpaceX Crew Dragon Endeavour, carried by the company’s Falcon 9 rocket from Launch Complex 39A at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

For crews preparing to launch, “flight crew health stabilization” is a routine part of the final preparations for all missions to the space station. Spending the final two weeks before liftoff in quarantine will help ensure the Crew-2 crew is healthy, protecting themselves and the astronauts already on the space station.

If they are able to maintain quarantine conditions at home, crew members can choose to quarantine there until they travel to Kennedy. If they are unable to maintain quarantine conditions at home – for example, if a household member can’t maintain quarantine because of job or school requirements – crew members have the option of living in the Astronaut Quarantine Facility at Johnson Space Center until they leave for Kennedy.

Mask wearing, physical distancing, and other safeguards have been added because of the coronavirus. Anyone who will come on site or interact with the crew during the quarantine period, as well as any VIPs, also will be screened for temperature and symptoms. Kimbrough, McArthur, Hoshide, and Pesquet, as well as those in direct contact with the crew, will be tested twice for the virus as a precaution.

Crew-2 astronauts will become the second crew to fly a full-duration mission to the space station on Crew Dragon for a six-month science mission on the orbiting laboratory. They are scheduled to arrive at the space station at 5:30 a.m. EDT Friday, April 23. They will join the Expedition 65 crew, Crew-1 NASA astronauts Mike Hopkins, Victor Glover, Shannon Walker and JAXA astronaut Soichi Noguchi, along with NASA astronaut Mark Vande Hei and Roscosmos cosmonauts Oleg Novitskiy and Pyotr Dubrov.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/crew-2/2021/04/13/spacex-crew-2-astronauts-enter-quarantine-for-mission-to-space-station/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/14/2021 09:40 am
I have the best neighbors! Check out these signs they have put up ahead of my launch. (And the accidental promotion I received; hope my real commander @astro_kimbrough doesn't notice!Smiling face with smiling eyes) Astronauts have lived in this neighborhood for over 60 years. A wonderful place to call home.

https://twitter.com/Astro_Megan/status/1382143846373548033
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/14/2021 09:08 pm
You're invited to the Crew-2 virtual @NASASocial!

Join us to learn more about the mission, connect with space enthusiasts from around the world and take part in live Q&A sessions with subject matter experts:

https://twitter.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1382435612741890053
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: cohberg on 04/14/2021 10:15 pm
Quote
KSC-20210414-PH-SPX01_0001 & KSC-20210414-PH-SPX01_0002
SpaceX’s Crew Dragon, named Endeavour, is lifted and mated to the SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket at NASA Kennedy Space Center’s Launch Complex 39A beginning April 13, 2021. Endeavour was transported to the Launch Complex 39A integration hangar on April 12, after making the trek from its processing facility at nearby Cape Canaveral Space Force Station. NASA astronauts Shane Kimbrough and  Megan McArthur, JAXA astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, and ESA astronaut Thomas Pesquet will fly to the International Space Station on NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission. Liftoff is set for Thursday, April 22, at 6:11 a.m. EDT. Photo credit: SpaceX
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/14/2021 11:23 pm
Had a fantastic conversation with @patmitchell during our @TEDWomen virtual talk. I shared how I have prepared for my upcoming mission to @Space_Station - mentally, physically, and in my personal life. There is power in preparation!

https://twitter.com/Astro_Megan/status/1382449030614061058
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/14/2021 11:25 pm
Looking great Can’t wait to see her in real life, in two days, and launch in 8 days.

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1382454691791970305
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/15/2021 12:33 am
twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1382461886722154498

Quote
SpaceX's Crew Dragon capsule Endeavour got quite cleaned up since splashing down 8 months ago:

https://twitter.com/thesheetztweetz/status/1382462405788192772

Quote
First photo (Aug. 2, 2020) by NASA's @ingallsimages, second photo (April 13, 2021) by SpaceX.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/15/2021 01:16 pm
"Astronaut Hoshide, to the universe for the third time!

https://youtu.be/jh4jDCV75jg
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 04/15/2021 03:57 pm
https://spaceflightnow.com/2021/04/14/spacexs-crew-dragon-endeavour-capsule-meets-falcon-9-rocket-for-launch-next-week/

Quote
“I can happily say the vast majority of the vehicle is flight-proven,” said Benji Reed, senior director of human spaceflight programs at SpaceX. “In this case, we are changing some valves, for example, we are changing some of the thermal protection system. On crew vehicles … we always fly new parachutes. So some of those are new, but otherwise it’s really the same vehicle that’s very carefully inspected, carefully prepared, refurbished as needed, and ready to fly.”

Great article with some specifics on Crew Dragon upgrades.

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/15/2021 06:10 pm
https://twitter.com/commercial_crew/status/1382736951518720010

Quote
With 1⃣ week until launch, @NASA and @SpaceX managers are gathered today for the Flight Readiness Review of the upcoming Crew-2 mission. 🚀🐉

A media teleconference will follow no earlier than 6 p.m. ET to discuss the outcome: go.nasa.gov/3toiBIu

https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2021/04/15/crew-2-flight-readiness-review-begins-as-falcon-9-rocket-and-crew-dragon-reach-the-launch-complex/

Quote
Crew-2 Flight Readiness Review Begins as Falcon 9 Rocket and Crew Dragon Reach the Launch Complex

NASA and SpaceX managers are meeting today to assess the readiness for the Crew-2 mission. The Flight Readiness Review at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida also is assessing readiness for the Crew-1 return scheduled for April 28. The traditional FRR focuses on the preparedness of SpaceX’s crew transportation system, the International Space Station, and its international partners to support the flight, and the certification of flight readiness.

NASA will hold a media teleconference later today, no earlier than 6 p.m. EDT, April 15, about an hour after the conclusion of the review to discuss the outcome. You can listen to the news conference streamed live on NASA’s website. Media may ask questions via phone only and should contact the Kennedy newsroom for connection details no later than 5 p.m.

SpaceX’s Crew Dragon spacecraft, named Endeavour, arrived at Kennedy Space Center’s Launch Complex 39A on Monday, April 12, after making the trek from its processing facility at nearby Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. The space capsule was placed atop the SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket and is scheduled to be transported to the pad later today, Thursday, April 15, and raised to the vertical launch position.

Crew-2 mission astronauts Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur, along with JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, and ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet, will fly from their home base at the agency’s Johnson Space Center in Houston to the Florida spaceport, arriving on Friday, April 16.

The astronauts will depart from Ellington Field near Johnson and fly to Kennedy aboard a Gulfstream jet aircraft. They’re expected to arrive at Kennedy’s Launch and Landing Facility on Friday afternoon. Acting NASA Administrator Steve Jurczyk, Center Director Bob Cabana, Junichi Sakai, manager of JAXA’s International Space Station Program, and Frank de Winne, manager of ESA’s International Space Station Program, will greet the crew, followed by a media event at the runway that will broadcast live on NASA Television and the agency’s website, weather permitting.

For NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission, Kimbrough, McArthur, Hoshide, and Pesquet will launch to the International Space Station aboard Crew Dragon, powered by the Falcon 9. Liftoff from Launch Complex 39A is targeted for 6:11 a.m. EDT, Thursday, April 22.

This is the second crew rotation flight of the SpaceX Crew Dragon and the first with two international partners following certification by NASA for regular flights to the space station as part of the agency’s Commercial Crew Program. Operational, long-duration commercial crew rotation missions will enable NASA to continue the important research and technology investigations taking place aboard the station.

Awaiting Crew-2’s arrival are the Expedition 65 crew, which includes Crew-1 astronauts. Crew-1 NASA astronauts Michael Hopkins, Victor Glover, and Shannon Walker, along with JAXA astronaut Soichi Noguchi, will undock Crew Dragon Resilience at 7:05 a.m. Wednesday, April 28, and splashdown off the coast of Florida at about 12:40 p.m., after 164 days in space.

More details about the mission and NASA’s Commercial Crew Program can be found in the press kit online and by following the commercial crew blog, @commercial_crew and commercial crew on Facebook.

Author Linda Herridge
Posted on April 15, 2021
Categories Commercial Crew, International Space Station, NASA, SpaceX Crew-2Tags Crew Dragon Endeavour, Crew-2, Crew-2 astronauts, Flight Readiness Review, International Space Station, Launch Complex 39A, SpaceX
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/15/2021 08:01 pm
https://twitter.com/emrekelly/status/1382782600658444293

Quote
Haven’t seen one of these “blast danger area” warnings before. Since it’s #Crew2 related, most likely static fire operations on Saturday.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ken the Bin on 04/15/2021 08:45 pm
FRR media teleconference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw29woqPHYs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw29woqPHYs)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/15/2021 09:59 pm
Yesterday #Crew2 completed our final proficiency training in the @SpaceX Crew Dragon cockpit simulator. Per tradition, we zapped it with our mission decal. Many thanks to our outstanding training team for getting us ready. Tomorrow, we depart for Kennedy Space Center!

https://twitter.com/Astro_Megan/status/1382763952392658945
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/15/2021 10:00 pm
7 days away from launching to the @Space_Station with this amazing group of people!

https://twitter.com/astro_kimbrough/status/1382757632788746241
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/15/2021 10:01 pm
#AlphaTrainingRecap 4/12The Crew Dragon is a new spacecraft for all of us and we spent many weeks as #Crew2 training on it
@SpaceX headquarters. A big thanks to the instructors who worked tirelessly and made us ready to tame the Dragon

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1382728176238014468
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/15/2021 10:06 pm
UPDATE The media teleconference following the Flight Readiness Review for @NASA's @SpaceX Crew-2 mission is now targeted for 6:30 p.m. ET.

https://twitter.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1382813598246838276
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/15/2021 10:43 pm
https://twitter.com/Commercial_Crew/status/1382823012748070913
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/15/2021 10:46 pm
https://twitter.com/Astro_Raja/status/1382826988059054081
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/15/2021 11:21 pm
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1382835505872650246

Quote
Couple notes from Crew-2 br[ief]ing so far:
- Still “go” for launch, but working one issue involving LOX loading of the Falcon 9
- No new date for Boeing’s OFT-2 Starliner test flight; vehicle is almost ready but doing add’l software testing while waiting.

Edit to add:

https://twitter.com/emrekelly/status/1382839496857763845

Quote
During testing, teams found a difference in loaded LOX versus what readouts showed. Has likely always been the case without adverse effect, but needs to be studied.

"Propellant level in the tank was about three to four inches different than what we had anticipated it would be."

https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/status/1382833710379245570

Quote
Crew-2 past FRR bfg underway.  With Bill Gerstenmaier as the Space X rep! He's now SpX VP Build and Reliability, succeeding Hans Koenigsmann who held that job for so long and just "retired."
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/15/2021 11:25 pm
https://twitter.com/stephenclark1/status/1382834777418502148

Quote
NASA’s Steve Stich says rollout of the Falcon 9 rocket and Crew Dragon to pad 39A is planned a bit after midnight, followed by a static fire at 6:11am EDT (1011 GMT) Saturday ahead of launch next Thursday.

Teams are assessing one issue before static fire, related to LOX loading.

https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/status/1382834592714006533

Quote
Stich:  Crew-2 hot fire on Saturday about 6:11 am ET, then a dry dress rehearsal on Sunday about same time.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/15/2021 11:53 pm
https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/status/1382841650519670784

Quote
Stich: if can't do Apr 22nd, can launch on Apr 23, 26 or 27. Landing of Crew-1 would slip commensurately to maintain 5-day handover.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 12:51 am
NASA's @SpaceX Crew-2 mission is GO for launch to the @Space_Station!

Four astronauts are set for liftoff aboard their Crew Dragon Endeavour spacecraft on Thurs., April 22 at 6:11am ET from
@NASAKennedy. Watch live starting at 2am

https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1382850050422882309
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ken the Bin on 04/16/2021 01:10 am
NASA replaced the original FRR teleconference YouTube video.  Here's the new version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtXGK4yGwF4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtXGK4yGwF4)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jacqmans on 04/16/2021 06:26 am
SpaceX Crew-2 Flight Readiness Review
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jacqmans on 04/16/2021 07:10 am
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 10:53 am
NASA SpaceX Crew-2 ‘Go’ for April 22 Launch

Linda Herridge Posted on April 15, 2021

The Flight Readiness Review (FRR) for NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission to the International Space Station has concluded, and teams are proceeding toward a planned liftoff at 6:11 a.m. EDT Thursday, April 22, from Launch Complex 39A at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. NASA will hold a media teleconference at approximately 7 p.m. EDT today, April 15, at Kennedy to discuss the outcome of the review. Listen live on NASA’s website.

Participants in the teleconference are:

Kathy Lueders, associate administrator, Human Exploration and Operations, NASA Headquarters
Steve Stich, manager, NASA Commercial Crew Program, Kennedy
Joel Montalbano, manager, International Space Station, NASA’s Johnson Space Center
Norm Knight, deputy manager, Flight Operations Directorate, Johnson
Benji Reed, senior director, Human Spaceflight Programs, SpaceX
Junichi Sakai, manager, International Space Station Program, JAXA
Frank de Winne, manager, International Space Station Program, ESA
Randy Repcheck, acting director, Operational Safety, Federal Aviation Administration

Crew-2 mission astronauts Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur, along with JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, and ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet, are scheduled to arrive at Kennedy on Friday, April 16, for their flight to the International Space Station. This is the second crew rotation flight of the SpaceX Crew Dragon and the first with two international partners.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2021/04/15/nasa-spacex-crew-2-go-for-april-22-launch/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 11:01 am
NASA to send ISS crew on reusable spacecraft and rocket for the first time.

03:25 16.04.2021 (updated: 10:13 16.04.2021)

WASHINGTON, April 16 - RIA Novosti. NASA will use a reusable spacecraft and a reusable first stage of a launch vehicle for the first time next week for a manned launch to the International Space Station (ISS), Katie Luders, head of the manned flight program, told a NASA press conference.

"For the first time, we will be using both a reusable capsule and a reusable first stage," Luders said at the launch briefing.

Earlier it was reported that on April 22, the Crew Dragon spacecraft will launch to the ISS on a Falcon 9 launch vehicle. NASA astronauts Robert Kimbrough and Megan MacArthur, as well as French astronaut Toma Peske and Japanese astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, will go into orbit on board the spacecraft .

According to a NASA spokesman, preparations for the April 22 launch are going according to plan and during the final analysis, only one problem was identified, which specialists hope to eliminate before the flight. As explained in the company SpaceX , experts have identified a deviation in the indicators recorded during the loading of fuel into the rocket, but hope to resolve it before the upcoming launch.

NASA stressed that with the arrival of Crew Dragon, two American manned spacecraft will be simultaneously on the ISS for the first time. Crew Dragon Resilience, which arrived on the ISS in November, will leave the station on April 28, according to NASA's timetable. Astronauts Shannon Walker, Michael Hopkins , Victor Glover and Soichi Noguchi will go to Earth on it .

https://ria.ru/20210416/nasa-1728508135.html
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: nalawod on 04/16/2021 12:38 pm
The fact that I can't find anything about the booster landing seems to indicate this is 100% NOT an RTLS.  Anybody know for sure yet?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rekt1971 on 04/16/2021 12:39 pm
The fact that I can't find anything about the booster landing seems to indicate this is 100% NOT an RTLS.  Anybody know for sure yet?

All crew dragon missions will be lading on droneships.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: jacqmans on 04/16/2021 02:19 pm
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 02:57 pm
L-6 As we are preparing for #MissionAlpha launch I think back to 2008 and what would have happened if I didn't apply to be an astronaut The most selective phase in the selection... is whether you choose to apply or not (it’s true!). After that the rest is easy... or almost.

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1383062169152028675
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 02:58 pm
Departure breakfast this morning prior to heading to @NASAKennedy!

https://twitter.com/astro_kimbrough/status/1383066933088559108
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 03:31 pm
Crew Arrival Update Join us starting at 12:45 p.m. ET as the Crew-2 astronauts arrive here at Kennedy Space Center.

https://twitter.com/NASAKennedy/status/1383076906602532866
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 03:39 pm
Astronauts for NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 Mission Depart Houston for Florida

Linda Herridge Posted on April 16, 2021

The astronauts that will fly on NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission to the International Space Station are now en route to the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida to begin final launch preparations.

Crew-2 mission astronauts Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur of NASA, along with JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide and ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet, departed by plane from Ellington Field near the agency’s Johnson Space Center in Houston for the short flight to the launch site. The crew is expected to arrive at the Launch and Landing Facility at Kennedy at approximately 12:45 p.m. EDT.

Crew-2 astronauts will be greeted at arrival to the launch site by leadership from NASA, JAXA, and ESA for a brief welcome ceremony targeted for approximately 1 p.m. EDT. The event is scheduled to broadcast live, if weather permits, on NASA Television and the agency’s website.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/crew-2/2021/04/16/astronauts-for-nasas-spacex-crew-2-mission-depart-houston-for-florida/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: sdsds on 04/16/2021 03:45 pm
FlightAware shows a Gulfstream IV inbound from Houston.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: RocketLover0119 on 04/16/2021 03:52 pm
https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1383084131987324928

Quote
Falcon 9 and Dragon rolling out to the pad ahead of launching four astronauts to the @space_station. Liftoff targeted for Thursday, April 22 at 6:11 a.m. EDT

The meatball and worm strike again!  ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: sdsds on 04/16/2021 04:32 pm
Landing soon. NASA TV going live shortly thereafter.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 04:32 pm
Crew Arrival at Kennedy Space Center for NASA's SpaceX Crew-2 Mission

https://youtu.be/slP22YX714c
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 04:39 pm
The astronauts of NASA's @SpaceX Crew-2 mission waved goodbye as they departed from Ellington Field in Houston.

They're on their way to @NASAKennedy and are set to arrive around 12:45 p.m. ET. They'll be live on NASA TV upon landing:

https://twitter.com/NASA_Johnson/status/1383093007801409536
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: sdsds on 04/16/2021 04:44 pm
Some divergence from the filed flight path. It looks like some sight-seeing in progress. Gee, I wonder what they went to look at? :-)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Everything Space on 04/16/2021 05:22 pm
Somebody made mistake  ::) ::) ::) Inspiration4, is not going to the space station, is it?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: hektor on 04/16/2021 05:28 pm
Somebody made mistake  ::) ::) ::) Inspiration4, is not going to the space station, is it?

Yes both the journalist and Shane Kimbrough got confused. Normally AX-1 goes to ISS but it is not for this increment but for the Crew-3 one.

Also the incrustation was saying that Pesquet was a NASA astronaut.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: hektor on 04/16/2021 05:32 pm
Talking of Inspiration4, the part about the Mach 26 patch of Megan made me wonder if the Inspiration4 crew will get one.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 07:52 pm
NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 Astronauts Touch Down at Florida Spaceport

Linda Herridge Posted on April 16, 2021

The astronauts that will soon launch to the International Space Station as part of NASA’s SpaceX Crew-2 mission arrived today, April 16, at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida to start final preparations for liftoff.

Crew-2 mission astronauts Shane Kimbrough and Megan McArthur of NASA, along with JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, and ESA (European Space Agency) astronaut Thomas Pesquet, landed via Gulfstream jet aircraft at the Launch and Landing Facility at Kennedy after departing earlier today from Ellington Field near the agency’s Johnson Space Center in Houston.

The astronauts were greeted by leaders from NASA, JAXA, and ESA. A media event began shortly after arrival with the following participants:

Steve Jurczyk, acting NASA administrator
Bob Cabana, center director, Kennedy
Junichi Sakai, manager, International Space Station Program, JAXA
Frank de Winne, manager, International Space Station Program, ESA
NASA astronaut Shane Kimbrough, spacecraft commander
NASA astronaut Megan McArthur, pilot
JAXA astronaut Akihiko Hoshide, mission specialist
ESA astronaut Thomas Pesquet, mission specialist

The astronauts are scheduled to lift off at 6:11 a.m. EDT Thursday, April 22, aboard a SpaceX Crew Dragon spacecraft carried by a Falcon 9 rocket for a six-month science mission to the space station as part of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program.

This is the second crew rotation flight of the SpaceX Crew Dragon and the first with two international partners. More details about the mission and NASA’s Commercial Crew Program can be found in the press kit online and by following the commercial crew blog, @commercial_crew and commercial crew on Facebook.

https://blogs.nasa.gov/crew-2/2021/04/16/nasas-spacex-crew-2-astronauts-touch-down-at-florida-spaceport/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 07:55 pm
It was a beautiful sight!

https://twitter.com/Astro_Megan/status/1383122923213496321
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 07:56 pm
Got a nice view of Pad 39-A as we flew into @NASAKennedy! The rocket and Dragon capsule are at the base of the tower.

https://twitter.com/astro_kimbrough/status/1383125106742857730
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/16/2021 08:00 pm
Filmed arriving at @NASAKennedy : we flew over launch pad 39a from where we will take off in 6 days

We flew around our launchpad 39a before landing @nasakennedy. Landing and then liftoff in 6 days.

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1383116944543465475
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/17/2021 09:44 am
Thanks everybody for waiting for us at NASA Kennedy Space Center today! So happy to be here for launch, so honored to be part of the team, and so thrilled to see our own spacecraft & rocket! Now time to go to bed so we can sleep shift for our 6:11 am EST launch...

https://twitter.com/Aki_Hoshide/status/1383197562149212161
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/17/2021 09:45 am
Falcon 9 and Dragon are vertical on Launch Complex 39A. This will be the first human spaceflight mission to fly astronauts on a flight-proven Falcon 9 and Dragon http://spacex.com/launches

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1383244401435054089
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/17/2021 09:47 am
The @SpaceX #Crew2 astronauts @Astro_Megan, @astro_kimbrough, @Thom_astro and @Aki_Hoshide arrived at @NASAKennedy yesterday ahead of their scheduled launch on 22 April to @Space_Station.

https://twitter.com/esa/status/1383353168667447300
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/17/2021 09:50 am
TOMORROW Rocket Tune in at 9:45 a.m. ET on Saturday, April 17 for a virtual media event with the astronauts of @NASA's
@SpaceX Crew-2 mission!

This flight will carry @astro_kimbrough, @Astro_Megan, @Thom_astro & @Aki_Hoshide to the @Space_Station on April 22: https://go.nasa.gov/3d7bLkY


https://twitter.com/NASAKennedy/status/1383231411293851655
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/17/2021 09:52 am
Dragon spacecraft & Falcon 9 rocket

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1383295895043600384
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/17/2021 09:53 am
The Falcon 9 first stage previously launched the Crew-1 mission, and the Dragon spacecraft previously flew @AstroBehnken and
@Astro_Doug to and from the @space_station during the Demo-2 mission.

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1383245015380418561
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/17/2021 11:11 am
In Baikonur the crew is not supposed to see their rocket before launch, but this is a tradition we don’t have here! We arrived
@NASAKennedy at the time the @SpaceX rocket was erected into the vertical position on the launch pad. Always impressive to see it from up close...

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1383357737690562561
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/17/2021 11:12 am
J-5: À Baïkonour, l'équipage n'est pas sensé voir sa fusée avant le jour du décollage... mais ici la tradition est différente ! Nous avons eu la chance d'arriver au @NASAKennedy au moment précis où le @SpaceX Falcon 9 était verticalisé sur le pas de tir. #MissionAlpha

https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1383360070239485953
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/17/2021 12:38 pm
Static fire test of Falcon 9 complete – targeting Thursday, April 22 at 6:11 a.m. EDT for launch of Dragon’s second operational mission to the @space_station http://spacex.com/launches

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1383375176985759747
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 04/17/2021 04:23 pm
LIVE NOW: Meet the Crew-2 astronauts headed to the @Space_Station on the @SpaceX Crew Dragon on April 22:

https://twitter.com/NASA/status/1383418191536295943
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Comga on 04/17/2021 07:39 pm
Visual mission profile by ElonX.net

This is interesting as always, but has anyone calculated where and when the vehicle will emerge into the sunlight (assuming an on-time pre-dawn launch as scheduled on Wednesday)?
Will it be before MECO and staging?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: snotis on 04/19/2021 10:47 pm
Quote
European Space Agency astronaut Thomas Pesquet — a former spacecraft engineer and airline pilot — compared his experience training to fly on SpaceX’s Crew Dragon spacecraft later this week to his previous mission on a Russian Soyuz capsule.

https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/1384267497092780049 (https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/1384267497092780049)

From this video (at 21:19):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvYMNG0sy14&t=1279s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvYMNG0sy14&t=1279s)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: gemmy0I on 04/19/2021 11:36 pm
Apologies if this has been asked and answered already elsewhere...

The recently published pictures of the Crew-2 Dragon on the launch pad show that it's missing the silver-colored "aprons" that protect the capsule from SuperDraco exhaust. All previous crew capsules - including Resilience on-orbit now, and Endeavour in its previous Demo-2 configuration - had the silver aprons, but this time around Endeavour just has the same white surface there as covers the rest of the capsule's backshell. The silver coating can still be seen on the edge of the main heat shield that protects the base of the craft, but no longer on the SuperDraco "exhaust pans".

Picture for example:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1383295895043600384/photo/1

Does anyone know what the deal is with this?

I'm assuming the white surface now coating the SuperDraco "exhaust pans" is the same SPAM (SpaceX Proprietary Ablative Material) that covers the rest of the backshell. Is it known what was there before? Was the silver coating just a layer on top of the SPAM for additional protection, or was it covering PICA-X like on the base of the craft?

I can think of several reasons why they might have made this change, but it's mere speculation unless someone else has a positive answer. Given that Dragon was originally designed for propulsive landing, I can imagine the silver coating being intended to prevent the SuperDraco exhaust from damaging the vehicle beyond refurbishability. But now that propulsive landing is out, the SuperDracos would only be used in an abort scenario, after which reuse is not a major priority (they didn't reuse C205 after the in-flight abort test, which suggests an abort scenario may be harder on a capsule and "use up" more of its wear-and-tear margins than a typical flight). So they might've decided they don't need the same level of protection any more. Alternatively, the change may stem from the fact that they've settled into replacing the SPAM for every flight, which IIRC wasn't the originally envisioned plan. (That may have something to do with the fact that the capsule is now landing in water instead of on land.) Or perhaps the original design was just too conservative and operational data (e.g. from the IFA) has since confirmed that the SPAM is tougher than they thought. Etc., etc...  ???

Edit: fixed Twitter link so that it doesn't embed in the middle of a sentence.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 04/20/2021 06:12 am
Hawthorne ground control conducting comms checks on the ISS UStream feed

Edit, the comm checks were apparently with Dragon with umbilical tear down now underway...

The sentences read out to test comms were, strange, "a pencil with black lead writes the best"...

See Harvard Sentences (https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs/audio/harvard.html), List 23, Sentence 1:
"A pencil with black lead writes best."

Wikipedia: Harvard sentences (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_sentences)
Quote
The Harvard sentences are a collection of sample phrases that are used for standardized testing of Voice over IP, cellular, and other telephone systems. They are phonetically balanced sentences that use specific phonemes at the same frequency they appear in English.

IEEE Recommended Practices for Speech Quality Measurements sets out seventy-two lists of ten phrases each, described as the "1965 Revised List of Phonetically Balanced Sentences (Harvard Sentences)." They are widely used in research on telecommunications, speech, and acoustics, where standardized and repeatable sequences of speech are needed.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/20/2021 04:15 pm
Is it possible to such huge change time of launch for Crew-2:

1st prediction: 11:10:45 UTC;

2nd prediciton: 11:10:35 UTC?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 04/20/2021 04:49 pm
Is it possible to such huge change time of launch for Crew-2:

1st prediction: 11:10:45 UTC;
2nd prediciton: 11:10:35 UTC?

Source?  Was that from a new conference today?
Last I heard was 10:11:46 UCT (06:11:46 EST) from one last week.
(Are you still thinking US Eastern Time is UTC-5, or are you suggesting a one hour shift?)
(Or did you just transpose your "10" and "11"?)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/20/2021 04:51 pm
Sorry, my typo should be 10:11:?5 UTC (source from NASA, not conference)! PM from me for source!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/20/2021 05:24 pm
Some photos from Thomas Pesquet via Flickr:

1) Thomas Pesquet Suit!

Image 2021-04-15 at 23.57.01

2) Breakfast at Kennedy

Image 2021-04-16 at 17.00.37

3) Space Shuttle cutlery

Image 2021-04-16 at 17.05.50

Credits: ESA–T. Pesquet


Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ace5 on 04/21/2021 02:28 am
Any information about the weight summaries of spacecraft (total mass) and payload (experiments, materials and crew supplies)?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 04/21/2021 06:57 am
NASA’s next Crew 2 event in 5 hours:

https://youtu.be/ziQ1PbzH8iM

Quote
The countdown to #LaunchAmerica​ is in its final hours! At 8:30 a.m. EDT (12:30 UTC), join acting NASA Administrator Steve Jurczyk and officials from NASA, ESA (European Space Agency) and JAXA (Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency) live from Kennedy Space Center, for a preview of NASA's SpaceX Crew-2 mission, set for liftoff on Thursday, April 22 at 6:11 a.m. EDT. Astronauts Shane Kimbrough, Megan McArthur of NASA, Thomas Pesquet of ESA,  and Akihiko Hoshide of JAXA will launch aboard the Crew Dragon 'Endeavour' spacecraft to the International Space Station.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 04/21/2021 08:19 am
Any information about the weight summaries of spacecraft (total mass) and payload (experiments, materials and crew supplies)?

Here's the Crew-2 Press Kit from NASA. Its just the Crew-1 Press Kit with the biographies of Crew-2 added. Unfortunately very little technical information is given for Dragon. The only numbers are for the cabin temperatures.

https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/commercial/crew/index.html
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: AndrewRG10 on 04/21/2021 11:12 am
Quote
Crew-2: As expected, launch of a SpaceX Crew Dragon carrying 4 astronauts to the ISS has been delayed 24 hours, from Thursday to Friday, at 5:49 EDT (0949 UTC), due to offshore weather; station crew has been informed

https://twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1384825049102884864

Not surprising, the weather looked pretty nasty and was a large section that wasn't favourable.
Next day is astronomically better though. Literally no wind or waves of concern along the entire abort zone
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/21/2021 05:26 pm
So we have now:

(GMT/UTC)
launch: = = = =  = docking with ISS:
April 23                    April 24
9:49:02                   9:10
and for future?

According to: https://www.spacex.com/launches/

a backup opportunity available on Monday, April 26 at 4:38 a.m. EDT, 8:48 UTC!

April 26                  April 27
8:?8                     8:??
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Orbiter on 04/21/2021 05:33 pm
Looks like a 9:49 UTC launch would have sunrise over the second stage about 4 minutes after launch. Should be visible from Florida up to the US East Coast.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: cohberg on 04/21/2021 07:57 pm
I wonder why Megan is the only one with a valsalva maneuver plug [1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/astrosamantha/6382057049/)] in her helmet?

edit: Derp, was informed that not all people can equalize with just jaw.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: wjbarnett on 04/21/2021 08:01 pm
Primary use is to assist with eustachian tube equalization during pressure changes. You can't use your fingers to pinch your nose though the helmet. Some people (e.g. my wife) does this just moving her jaw. I require pinching.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/21/2021 09:46 pm
So we have now:

(GMT/UTC)
launch: = = = =  = docking with ISS:
April 23                    April 24
9:49:02                   9:10
and for future?

According to: https://www.spacex.com/launches/

a backup opportunity available on Monday, April 26 at 4:38 a.m. EDT, 8:48 UTC!

April 26                  April 27
8:?8                     8:??


Backup #1
Launch: 4/23 09:49:01 UTC Dock: 4/24 09:10:00 UTC
Backup #2
Launch: 4/26 08:38:10 UTC Dock: 4/27 08:00:00 UTC
Backup #3
Launch: 4/27 08:15:37 UTC Dock: 4/28 07:40:00 UTC
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 04/22/2021 12:28 pm
I wonder why Megan is the only one with a valsalva maneuver plug [1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/astrosamantha/6382057049/)] in her helmet?

edit: Derp, was informed that not all people can equalize with just jaw.

Good catch!  Is that the first SpaceXsuit helmet we've seen with a one?
I'm surprised they aren't more common, as an astronaut who might normally be able to equalize with jaw movements could have unexpected difficulty due to nasal congestion on deorbit day.
Wikipedia's Valsalva device (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valsalva_device) discusses several incidents involving them, but doesn't indicate how often they are included in spacesuits.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: sghill on 04/22/2021 12:43 pm
I watched ISS glide silently overhead this morning at exactly 6:11am. It would have been terrific to see another bright light rising up to chase it from my vantage point here in Florida. Oh well, coffee maker is set for a little earlier tomorrow!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Comga on 04/22/2021 08:32 pm
The timeline for tomorrow's Crew 2 launch has been posted (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=53596.msg2224924#msg2224924).
It includes the usual "2nd stage LOX loading begins" at T-16:00.
One thing not on the list is helium loading.
Given all of the interesting physics learned from the Amos-6 incident they must have modified that procedure.
SpaxeX may also have switched some or all of the COPVs on the cew flights to titanium (although we saw the debris from the recent Starlink launch second stage was a COPV.)
Do we have any details on the He load?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/22/2021 09:43 pm
Updated timeline for April 23 and docking for April 24:

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 04/23/2021 06:10 am
Advance team enroute to pad 39A

They are in the white room

There is an advance team of NASA and SpaceX personnel at the pad, preparing for the crew’s arrival.

It is a specific LD callout.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 04/23/2021 06:31 am
National anthem.

It was America the Beautiful, not the anthem.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: 1 on 04/23/2021 06:34 am
National anthem.

I wish. What he played was 'America the Beautiful', which is a better song IMO.

That was Wynton Marsalis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wynton_Marsalis)

Branford_Marsalis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branford_Marsalis). Wynton is the trumpeter in the family.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: RocketLover0119 on 04/23/2021 06:57 am
National anthem.

It was America the Beautiful, not the anthem.

Fixed, just woke up an hour ago and it’s 3am here, running on 1 brain cell  :D
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: WannaWalnetto on 04/23/2021 08:28 am
Going back over the video around the hatch closing time, it looks like some of the SpaceX Ninjas still have their patches on over their left breast.  I thought that all of the close out crew sent their patches along with the astronauts. 

I was able to see them still on Ninja 1, 20, 26 and 30, but missing (removed) from 9, 10, 11 and 19.

Not sure about the photographer (#23).

Perhaps there is some tradition around this, but if it was said I missed it.  My guess is that the 4 patches pulled matches up with the 4 astronauts — their personal ninjas ??
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: tesh90 on 04/23/2021 10:19 am
Hi all,

did anyone else notice the object that flew by at separation?  Seems a bit close for comfort - would that have been tracked and known?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: freda on 04/23/2021 10:23 am
Screen image attached.  Interesting message on the NSF social media (twitter) embed feed.  I wonder what their algorithm flagged as being too sensitive to see?

And... thank you to NSF for the good coverage!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Scylla on 04/23/2021 10:29 am
2nd stage passing North Carolina
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: webdan on 04/23/2021 10:36 am
We usually leave around 5:45am, but this time I stopped her and said let's wait a few minutes... She gave me "that look".

A remarkably beautiful launch from CLW, but after first stage shutdown she says "Ok, see you tonight!". Grabbed her left arm and pulled her closer. "Let the show begin".

First stage aftermath. Next time I need to setup the DSLR. Noctilucent view.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: eeergo on 04/23/2021 10:41 am

Hi all,


did anyone else notice the object that flew by at separation?  Seems a bit close for comfort - would that have been tracked and known?


Doesn't appear significant: it seems like a small plug or other smooth part, but the key word here is "small": it was closer to the camera than the 2nd stage-to-Dragon interface (see fourth screenshot):
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: MadameConcorde on 04/23/2021 10:50 am
Thank you all at NASA SpaceFlight for providing us with this wonderful live streaming.

I hope I am posting this in the right section. You all did a fantastic job with your  awesome images and comments once again. Best team all around.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: stcks on 04/23/2021 11:49 am
Rocket launches are cool, pre-dawn rocket launches are super cool, but you know whats cooler? Astronauts riding the rockets uphill. Why don't we ever see onboard video from inside Dragon during uphill flight? They are the real star of the show, lets see more of them!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: lucspace on 04/23/2021 12:08 pm
Nice tour of Endeavour by Crew2. Less great of commander Kimbrough to call his friends at the ISS "a couple of Russians and Mark Vande Hei"... Are relations cooling down up there too now?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 04/23/2021 12:13 pm
Nice tour of Endeavour by Crew2. Less great of commander Kimbrough to call his friends at the ISS "a couple of Russians and Mark Vande Hei"... Are relations cooling down up there too now?

It was a joke.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: joncz on 04/23/2021 01:13 pm
Current approach plan

As someone who reads left-to-right, it took me several tries to understand the approach graphic.

It doesn't help that the top one (in the quoted message) goes right-to-left and the bottom left-to-right
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 04/23/2021 01:32 pm
It makes more sense as part of the animated illustration.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Llian Rhydderch on 04/23/2021 01:39 pm
Where is the Crew-2 update thread?  It seems to be missing in this section of the forums, and I'd like to just catch the highlights rather than the detailed discussion.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Overcast on 04/23/2021 01:46 pm
Where is the Crew-2 update thread?  It seems to be missing in this section of the forums, and I'd like to just catch the highlights rather than the detailed discussion.


It's been pinned so appears at the top of the list, took me a while to find as well
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: freddo411 on 04/23/2021 04:53 pm
The the contract between NASA and SX for Dragon2 is for 2.7 billion dollars total.   That included all development, and 6 operational flights.   (I believe this is the second operational flight, 4 more to go).

Questions: 

Has SX received all 2.7 billion already?

Does SX receive a specific payment for each of these six flights?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Orbiter on 04/23/2021 05:15 pm
My shot of this mornings launch!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: mandrewa on 04/23/2021 06:47 pm
The the contract between NASA and SX for Dragon2 is for 2.7 billion dollars total.   That included all development, and 6 operational flights.   (I believe this is the second operational flight, 4 more to go).

Questions: 

Has SX received all 2.7 billion already?

Does SX receive a specific payment for each of these six flights?

SpaceX is paid for milestones achieved during development and for each operational flight as it occurs.  The payment per flight is $220 million.  So SpaceX still has $880 million to go (4 more flights) before it reaches the agreed $2.7 billion.

Or at least that is my understanding.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ZachS09 on 04/23/2021 06:47 pm
https://twitter.com/zachsellinger/status/1385625731586269186?s=21

This was my shot of the Crew-2 launch, and it was only the third twilight launch I saw. The other two were the Starliner OFT-1 and NROL-101 launches (both on Atlas V).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Bob Shaw on 04/23/2021 07:00 pm
The the contract between NASA and SX for Dragon2 is for 2.7 billion dollars total.   That included all development, and 6 operational flights.   (I believe this is the second operational flight, 4 more to go).

Questions: 

Has SX received all 2.7 billion already?

Does SX receive a specific payment for each of these six flights?

SpaceX is paid for milestones achieved during development and for each operational flight as it occurs.  The payment per flight is $220 million.  So SpaceX still has $880 million to go (4 more flights) before it reaches the agreed $2.7 billion.

Or at least that is my understanding.

I think it is a bit more complicated than that.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: otisbow on 04/23/2021 07:26 pm
Has anybody found the NASA Media Channel coverage of this morning Crew Dragon-2 launch on You Tube. This NASA channel has NO commentary or interviews just LIVE mission coverage.  It is so KOOL to watch space stuff with just mission control announcements.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: mn on 04/23/2021 07:41 pm
Crew being notified of a possible close conjunction at 17:43 and being asked to don suits for sake of caution.

Is this something that was discovered after launch? Or they knew but elected to launch anyway (knowing they can maneuver around it if required)?

What's the usual process for these things?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: haywoodfloyd on 04/23/2021 07:42 pm
What safeguards are built-in to the Control Touch Panel to prevent one of the astronauts from accidentally hitting the wrong touchscreen button at the wrong time with an elbow or such. Sort of like they have on StarTrek NG (apparently) where you have to enter a security code before any command will work?
The Apollo capsules had "covered" or "guarded" switches (not all of  them, just the critical ones).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Andy_Small on 04/23/2021 08:08 pm
What safeguards are built-in to the Control Touch Panel to prevent one of the astronauts from accidentally hitting the wrong touchscreen button at the wrong time with an elbow or such. Sort of like they have on StarTrek NG (apparently) where you have to enter a security code before any command will work?
The Apollo capsules had "covered" or "guarded" switches (not all of  them, just the critical ones).


I just tested with my iPad and touched the screen with my elbow and it did not engage the screen.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: abaddon on 04/23/2021 08:14 pm
Crew being notified of a possible close conjunction at 17:43 and being asked to don suits for sake of caution.

Is this something that was discovered after launch? Or they knew but elected to launch anyway (knowing they can maneuver around it if required)?
My impression is it was discovered only moments before the announcement to the crew.  Presumably with such a short projected encounter time, they didn't want to waste any time getting the Crew safely in their suits.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: abaddon on 04/23/2021 08:15 pm
What safeguards are built-in to the Control Touch Panel to prevent one of the astronauts from accidentally hitting the wrong touchscreen button at the wrong time with an elbow or such. Sort of like they have on StarTrek NG (apparently) where you have to enter a security code before any command will work?
The Apollo capsules had "covered" or "guarded" switches (not all of  them, just the critical ones).
Dragon does have some guarded switches.  I would imagine that "actionable" touch-screen buttons, e.g. for flying the vehicle manually, would have to be engaged with a multi-touch input or something similar.  But I'm just guessing.  Would be interesting to know!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: VulcanCafe on 04/23/2021 08:18 pm
Decently in depth article on the touch screens and back up manual switches (with covers) from mid 2020 here: https://medium.com/swlh/the-touchscreens-controlling-spacex-dragon-on-its-historic-mission-b0546d26053c

And a link to a SpaceX ISS Docking Simulator made by SpaceX: https://iss-sim.spacex.com/
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Tweedster99 on 04/23/2021 08:48 pm
Can I ask about the bracelets the crew are wearing? They look like hospital bracelets but I’m not sure, the previous crew also wore them? But soyuz crews don’t? Does anyone know why they are worn?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Semmel on 04/23/2021 09:31 pm
Crew being notified of a possible close conjunction at 17:43 and being asked to don suits for sake of caution.

Is this something that was discovered after launch? Or they knew but elected to launch anyway (knowing they can maneuver around it if required)?

What's the usual process for these things?

If that was known before launch I am pretty certain they would not have launched on this trajectory or postponed the launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Semmel on 04/23/2021 09:34 pm
Crew being notified of a possible close conjunction at 17:43 and being asked to don suits for sake of caution.

Are they working on identifying what it was? Its rare to encounter anything this close in the atmosphere. Must have been recent or on a hyperbolic trajectory. Any indication of size, orbital parameters, anything?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 04/23/2021 10:19 pm
I'm watching a replay and, during the lead-up to the launch, the commentators got all excited about a highly magnified view of "the space station".  Here's an enhanced version of that shot.

Ummmm...the station looks a lot like Jupiter to me.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 04/23/2021 10:46 pm
Can I ask about the bracelets the crew are wearing? They look like hospital bracelets but I’m not sure, the previous crew also wore them? But soyuz crews don’t? Does anyone know why they are worn?

All four crew members are wearing them on their right wrist, including the Commander Shane Kimbrough who also wears his watch on the right.  The best shot I got was of Thomas Pesquet at 3:11 of the "Watch SpaceX Crew-2's on-orbit tour of Crew Dragon Endeavour" video (https://youtube.com/watch?v=IOW5Yk5kPg0&t=180).

My best, fully uninformed guess is that they are radiation dosimeters.

Edited to add link to DM-2 image (https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/7Kk6nm6wQ6vhM0D2bRX5HDIAjdE=/0x1080/volume-assets.voxmedia.com/production/5336e751ec499bc6fe3071898e9fece4/Screen_Shot_2020-05-30_at_4_29_28_PM.png) showing Doug & Bob with their bracelets.
I'm still guessing dosimeter, but I've still not seen one from any angle showing an additional thickness to support that.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Svenry on 04/23/2021 10:47 pm
I'm watching a replay and, during the lead-up to the launch, the commentators got all excited about a highly magnified view of "the space station".  Here's an enhanced version of that shot.

Ummmm...the station looks a lot like Jupiter to me.

Good eye! Yep, that is Jupiter. I don't think anyone was waving back, unfortunately. Video at 3:50:09 https://youtu.be/lW07SN3YoLI?t=13809 (https://youtu.be/lW07SN3YoLI?t=13809)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: OneSpeed on 04/24/2021 12:32 am
Here is a comparison of the launch telemetry from the Crew-1 and Crew-2 missions.

1. The Crew-2 telemetry has reverted to the usual SpaceX altitude resolution of a single decimal point below 100km and none above.
2. The Crew-2 telemetry has reverted to the usual SpaceX update rate of 25 per second, and hence gives a much smoother acceleration plot.
3. Ignoring the spikes in the Crew-1 acceleration, the profiles are otherwise very similar.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Kiwi53 on 04/24/2021 08:21 am
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'?

Sorry if this is a dumb question
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jansen on 04/24/2021 08:46 am
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'?

Sorry if this is a dumb question

Phasing
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rossco on 04/24/2021 09:25 am
Great achievement.

Looking forward to a decent picture of both Dragons docked - bet that'll be one for the office wall at hawthorne!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Life_Support_32 on 04/24/2021 10:57 am
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'?

Sorry if this is a dumb question
Soyuz docking is either 2-orbit "express" or 34-orbit (about 51 hours) "regular". The 8 hours you mention was a 4-orbit mode that was replaced with the 2-orbit.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: cscott on 04/24/2021 11:38 am
And one difference is that AIUI it takes ISS fuel to manuveur for an "express" rendezvous, and they usually want to conserve ISS fuel. The decision is not all about spacecraft capabilities.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: TJL on 04/24/2021 12:37 pm
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'?

Sorry if this is a dumb question
Another reason is that SpaceX prefers to have a "rest period" for the crew prior to linking up with ISS after a very long day.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Norm38 on 04/24/2021 01:11 pm
11 people on ISS right now thanks to Dragon. What a great photo.

SpaceX has launched 10 people into orbit and 8 are in that shot.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: allio on 04/24/2021 02:25 pm
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'?

Sorry if this is a dumb question

If I remember correctly it has something to do with Russian ground monitoring stations.

Scott Manley has an excellent video about It.

https://youtu.be/bUi0yWc5Dnw
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lars-J on 04/24/2021 03:05 pm
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'?

Sorry if this is a dumb question
From a physics POV, nothing prevents Dragon from doing the same, but taking longer is due to two issues:
- phasing (basically where ISS is in the same orbit at launch, how much “chasing” Dragon has to do to catch up, some launch days have better “phasing” than others)
- crew rest concerns (it had already been a long day for them so why push it)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: hektor on 04/24/2021 05:45 pm
 https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1385998235005751297?s=20 (https://twitter.com/Thom_astro/status/1385998235005751297?s=20)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jorge on 04/24/2021 07:13 pm
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'?

Sorry if this is a dumb question

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=53087.msg2193888#msg2193888
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 04/24/2021 07:34 pm
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'? ...
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=53087.msg2193888#msg2193888
Yep, it's all about phase angle and whether it is worth coordinating an ISS reboost to enable a fast rendezvous on a particular launch date.

Crew-1 launched on 15 November 2020 and docked to ISS 27.5 hours later, but had it launch on 14 November as had been expected at one point, it would have flown an 8.5 hour rendezvous.

Here's (https://tinyurl.com/y6fbfb5p) the Chris G tweet with the detailed timeline for a 14 November launch, and here's (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=50525.msg2154737#msg2154737) my post from back then with an attached PDF of that timeline.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Kiwi53 on 04/25/2021 01:26 am
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'?

Sorry if this is a dumb question

Thank you, the answers have been both educational and helpful
 :)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SPKirsch on 04/25/2021 02:01 am
https://twitter.com/SpaceXFleet/status/1386067579912048645
Quote
The SpaceX fleet is about to have a very busy week...

- OCISLY w/ B1061-2 en-route to Florida (ETA Monday-ish)
- JRTI en-route to the Starlink LZ
- GO Searcher stationed for Atlantic Crew-1 splashdown in, Navigator in Gulf
- GO Quest and Shelia Bordelon preparing for Starlink
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: WannaWalnetto on 04/25/2021 02:59 am
Has any more information been shared / discovered / posted anywhere about “the close approach of that surprise object” that hurriedly put the crew back into their flight suits?  I’m wondering just what the surprise really was.

A new object that nobody knew about, or a known object that wasn’t a threat ... until it was?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: CuddlyRocket on 04/25/2021 04:11 am
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'?

Sorry if this is a dumb question

Another reason is that SpaceX prefers to have a "rest period" for the crew prior to linking up with ISS after a very long day.

If I was on the crew I'd probably enjoy the chance to chill out and admire the view for an extended period. A Dragon with four astronauts is a lot more comfortable than a Soyuz with three. Keep your customers happy!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: mandrewa on 04/25/2021 11:56 am
Why does Crew Dragon take pretty much a day to dock with the ISS, when Soyuz can do it in around three hours 'express' or about eight hours 'regular'?

Sorry if this is a dumb question

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=53087.msg2193888#msg2193888

To elaborate a bit more, Baikonur Cosmodrome is under the ISS's orbit in a way that Cape Canaveral simply isn't.  Baikonur's alignment means it could make an express launch every single day if it wanted to while Cape Canaveral only has opportunities once or twice a month.

And since each three hour rendezvous means the ISS has to expend propellant to line itself precisely for the meeting, weather also has a big impact on all of this.  Cape Canaveral's weather is far less predictable than Baikonur's.  That means that if NASA did attempt short journeys using one of its occasional opportunities, there's a much higher risk that the propellant expenditure on the ISS would be wasted because weather might cancel the whole thing at the last minute.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: theonlyspace on 04/25/2021 12:09 pm
Soyuz can and does launch in almost any weather even snow.  Crew Dragon cannot .
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: webdan on 04/25/2021 12:53 pm
So first time since STS-135 (July 2011) that a reused “crewed” spacecraft (Endeavour/C206) has arrived at the ISS, let alone make it to orbit.

Edit: + “crewed”
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Herb Schaltegger on 04/25/2021 03:21 pm
https://twitter.com/thom_astro/status/1386286404745916418

Quote
I took a very lucky shot: as I was getting out of my spacesuit and looking out the window, I happened to spot our 2nd stage of the @SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket, flying in formation with us on a perfectly parallel track, but lower... two tiny objects 200 km above Earth! #MissionAlpha

Edit to add: higher res version from flickr & cropped view of S2

So has anyone looked at the EXIF data to see when Thomas took that photo? And along those lines, did S2 fail to deorbit? Alternatively, was S2 intentionally allowed to remain in orbit until it decays naturally?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Chris Bergin on 04/25/2021 03:23 pm
This is amazing:

https://twitter.com/TheFavoritist/status/1386338263322013699

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ7dY3JQzco
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rekt1971 on 04/25/2021 04:00 pm
https://twitter.com/thom_astro/status/1386286404745916418

Quote
I took a very lucky shot: as I was getting out of my spacesuit and looking out the window, I happened to spot our 2nd stage of the @SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket, flying in formation with us on a perfectly parallel track, but lower... two tiny objects 200 km above Earth! #MissionAlpha

Edit to add: higher res version from flickr & cropped view of S2

So has anyone looked at the EXIF data to see when Thomas took that photo? And along those lines, did S2 fail to deorbit? Alternatively, was S2 intentionally allowed to remain in orbit until it decays naturally?

The second stage performed successful deorbit burn. We could actually hear that during the live stream (Timestamp 18:53).
"MVac ignition"
"MVac shutdown"
"nominal deorbit burn"


https://youtube.com/watch?v=oqA0ndN-rDc&t=1133s
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 04/25/2021 04:26 pm
Quote from: Thomas Pesquet
I took a very lucky shot: as I was getting out of my spacesuit and looking out the window, I happened to spot our 2nd stage of the @SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket, flying in formation with us on a perfectly parallel track, but lower... two tiny objects 200 km above Earth! #MissionAlpha
Edit to add: higher res version from flickr & cropped view of S2
So has anyone looked at the EXIF data to see when Thomas took that photo? And along those lines, did S2 fail to deorbit? Alternatively, was S2 intentionally allowed to remain in orbit until it decays naturally?
The second stage performed successful deorbit burn. We could actually hear that during the live stream (Timestamp 18:53).
"MVac ignition"
"MVac shutdown"
"nominal deorbit burn"
https://youtube.com/watch?v=oqA0ndN-rDc&t=1133s
Also:
https://twitter.com/planet4589/status/1385632375409975299
Quote from: Jonathan McDowell at 12:31 PM · Apr 23, 2021 (EDT)
SpX Crew-2 has been cataloged as object 48209  (S48209 in my GCAT), the most recent TLE showing it in a 210 x 228 km orbit. The second stage has not been cataloged and is presumed to have been deorbited in the target zone west of Australia
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 04/27/2021 09:12 pm
11 people on ISS right now thanks to Dragon. What a great photo.
SpaceX has launched 10 people into orbit and 8 are in that shot.
With 11 space voyagers, you get a bustling ISS!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SPKirsch on 04/29/2021 08:18 pm
...for the records.
https://twitter.com/johnkrausphotos/status/1387132686653865997
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 04/30/2021 07:58 am
User who wrote:
"I don't know if anyone viewed the ending theme (outro) at the conclusion of the docking. It's fitting and epic for both NASA and SpaceX. I posted the file here as YouTube flagged the music as copyrighted." contact with me via PM !

Update: I have this attachment file (Launch America NASA-SpaceX Outro) in MP4 format from my temp file (over 28 MB). Thanks I was hearing this file it before !
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: hektor on 05/02/2021 08:12 am
Was there a wake up music after the sleep period on the way to ISS?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: catdlr on 05/02/2021 08:21 am
User who wrote:
"I don't know if anyone viewed the ending theme (outro) at the conclusion of the docking. It's fitting and epic for both NASA and SpaceX. I posted the file here as YouTube flagged the music as copyrighted." contact with me via PM !

Update: I have this attachment file (Launch America NASA-SpaceX Outro) in MP4 format from my temp file (over 28 MB). Thanks I was hearing this file it before !

Thanks, SMS, that was me.   Mods deleted as the music is copyrighted.  It was played again tonight at the conclusion of landing but was trimmed off.  The song or jingle is great.

Update:
Here is the author of the music:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-xIWMOv9E
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 05/02/2021 08:25 am
I like it, too ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: hektor on 09/21/2021 10:09 am
It is good for Crew-2 that SpaceX has done a few more Dragon reentries before they come back : Cargo Dragon and Inspiration4.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Albert Lapatin on 10/02/2021 08:06 pm
Hello. Let me ask a question that I cannot find an answer to. Is the Drago Crew able to perform a manual descent in the event of a loss of communication with the MCC or other emergency?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: AC in NC on 10/02/2021 08:11 pm
Hello. Let me ask a question that I cannot find an answer to. Is the Drago Crew able to perform a manual descent in the event of a loss of communication with the MCC or other emergency?
Yes.  See the buttons circled in Yellow.  Image attached is a recreation of the control panel. 

Here's a link to an actual photo: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46136.0;attach=1537705;image
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: cscott on 10/02/2021 11:28 pm
It was also explicitly mentioned as one of the scenarios exercised in the preflight mission sim for the inspiration 4 crew.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Albert Lapatin on 10/03/2021 05:31 am
can i see this "preflight mission sim for the inspiration 4 crew" somewhere?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Albert Lapatin on 10/03/2021 05:58 am
Hello. Let me ask a question that I cannot find an answer to. Is the Drago Crew able to perform a manual descent in the event of a loss of communication with the MCC or other emergency?
Yes.  See the buttons circled in Yellow.  Image attached is a recreation of the control panel. 

Here's a link to an actual photo: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46136.0;attach=1537705;image

you want to say that it is enough to push one button and the Dragon will return home?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Albert Lapatin on 10/03/2021 06:45 am
Hello. Let me ask a question that I cannot find an answer to. Is the Drago Crew able to perform a manual descent in the event of a loss of communication with the MCC or other emergency?
Yes.  See the buttons circled in Yellow.  Image attached is a recreation of the control panel. 

Here's a link to an actual photo: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46136.0;attach=1537705;image

you want to say that it is enough to push one button and the Dragon will return home?
Probably not while docked to ISS but if free flying I've no doubt it's default landing location is programmed in so that pushing the button executes the appropriate phasing and deorbits.



If the computer system fails, then this scenario will be impossible.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lars-J on 10/03/2021 08:39 am
Hello. Let me ask a question that I cannot find an answer to. Is the Drago Crew able to perform a manual descent in the event of a loss of communication with the MCC or other emergency?
Yes.  See the buttons circled in Yellow.  Image attached is a recreation of the control panel. 

Here's a link to an actual photo: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46136.0;attach=1537705;image

you want to say that it is enough to push one button and the Dragon will return home?
Probably not while docked to ISS but if free flying I've no doubt it's default landing location is programmed in so that pushing the button executes the appropriate phasing and deorbits.



If the computer system fails, then this scenario will be impossible.
Yes. Obviously there are some (extremely unlikely) scenarios where the crew won’t survive.

What are you angling for exactly here? You got an answer to your first Q, and now you are moving the goalposts?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Albert Lapatin on 10/03/2021 11:18 am
Hello. Let me ask a question that I cannot find an answer to. Is the Drago Crew able to perform a manual descent in the event of a loss of communication with the MCC or other emergency?
Yes.  See the buttons circled in Yellow.  Image attached is a recreation of the control panel. 

Here's a link to an actual photo: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46136.0;attach=1537705;image

you want to say that it is enough to push one button and the Dragon will return home?
Probably not while docked to ISS but if free flying I've no doubt it's default landing location is programmed in so that pushing the button executes the appropriate phasing and deorbits.



If the computer system fails, then this scenario will be impossible.
Yes. Obviously there are some (extremely unlikely) scenarios where the crew won’t survive.

What are you angling for exactly here? You got an answer to your first Q, and now you are moving the goalposts?

It's simple. When you start to understand the problem, new questions arise.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vettedrmr on 10/03/2021 11:41 am
Hello. Let me ask a question that I cannot find an answer to. Is the Drago Crew able to perform a manual descent in the event of a loss of communication with the MCC or other emergency?
Yes.  See the buttons circled in Yellow.  Image attached is a recreation of the control panel. 

Here's a link to an actual photo: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46136.0;attach=1537705;image

you want to say that it is enough to push one button and the Dragon will return home?
Probably not while docked to ISS but if free flying I've no doubt it's default landing location is programmed in so that pushing the button executes the appropriate phasing and deorbits.



If the computer system fails, then this scenario will be impossible.

No, if all of the redundant channels of the computer system fail, then it's impossible.  In the fighter jet work I did, a triplex-redundant computer system has a failure rate requirement that exceeds 1:1,000,000. 
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: cscott on 10/03/2021 02:34 pm
can i see this "preflight mission sim for the inspiration 4 crew" somewhere?
Scroll back through the inspiration 4 thread to find the discussion.  Some footage was also on Netflix, apparently.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Rondaz on 10/27/2021 11:45 am
Seven issued NOTMAR Hazard Areas for #Crew-2 Dragon2 reentry and splashdown on dates between 05 and 08 November. Traditional recovery locations in Cape Canaveral, Daytona, Jacksonville, Panama City, Pensacola, Tallahassee and Tampa areas.

https://twitter.com/Raul74Cz/status/1453311835910905856
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: briantipton on 10/28/2021 04:08 am
Hello. Let me ask a question that I cannot find an answer to. Is the Drago Crew able to perform a manual descent in the event of a loss of communication with the MCC or other emergency?
Yes.  See the buttons circled in Yellow.  Image attached is a recreation of the control panel. 

Here's a link to an actual photo: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46136.0;attach=1537705;image

I love the simplicity of these buttons. Brilliant! Even without training, any intelligent person would know what to do in an emergency. They all seem self-explanatory except for "Breakout." Can anyone enlighten me as to what that one is does and when it would be used?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 10/29/2021 02:35 am
... They all seem self-explanatory except for "Breakout." Can anyone enlighten me as to what that one is does and when it would be used?

NASA gives go-ahead for SpaceX commercial crew test flight (https://spacenews.com/nasa-gives-go-ahead-for-spacex-commercial-crew-test-flight/)
Jeff Foust · Space News · February 22, 2019
Quote
Gerstenmaier said there was still one “action” to emerge from the review, regarding the performance of the flight software on the spacecraft as it approaches the ISS. He said one of the station’s international partners, later revealed to be Russia, had a dissenting opinion on the issue.

He said the concern was about what would happened if there was a failure of the main computers of the spacecraft on approach, and how it would perform a “breakout” maneuver to avoid the station. He said the computers on Crew Dragon are fault tolerant, but that the mission team will “look a little more rigorously” at fault detection procedures. “I don’t think it will be a problem once we go through the details of why it’s safe,” he said.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Comga on 10/29/2021 09:02 pm
... They all seem self-explanatory except for "Breakout." Can anyone enlighten me as to what that one is does and when it would be used?

NASA gives go-ahead for SpaceX commercial crew test flight (https://spacenews.com/nasa-gives-go-ahead-for-spacex-commercial-crew-test-flight/)
Jeff Foust · Space News · February 22, 2019
Quote
Gerstenmaier said there was still one “action” to emerge from the review, regarding the performance of the flight software on the spacecraft as it approaches the ISS. He said one of the station’s international partners, later revealed to be Russia, had a dissenting opinion on the issue.

He said the concern was about what would happened if there was a failure of the main computers of the spacecraft on approach, and how it would perform a “breakout” maneuver to avoid the station. He said the computers on Crew Dragon are fault tolerant, but that the mission team will “look a little more rigorously” at fault detection procedures. “I don’t think it will be a problem once we go through the details of why it’s safe,” he said.

And yet, earlier this week, "Rogozin says Crew Dragon safe for Russian cosmonauts (https://spacenews.com/rogozin-says-crew-dragon-safe-for-russian-cosmonauts/)".
(Acknowledged: This is no longer specific to the Crew 2 mission.)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Targeteer on 10/29/2021 09:16 pm
Rob Navias stated during an interview with the US crew that a 2 hour fly around by the departing Dragon of ISS will occur if undocking/splashdown timing allows it.  The interview was on the ISSlive streaming feed but will not be released till next week.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: theonlyspace on 11/08/2021 04:03 pm
Nice fly around graph after undocking
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Comga on 11/08/2021 05:24 pm
Nice fly around graph after undocking

How long will the fly around take with the four burns?
It could be done with a single burn, but that would take a full orbit, ~90 minutes.
Now, THAT could be a the perfectly circular trajectory illustrated.
This may be what happens when there is extremely high margins on propellants and thruster lifetime. 
They do what they want without economizing.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Joffan on 11/08/2021 05:30 pm

How long will the fly around take with the four burns?
It could be done with a single burn, but that would take a full orbit, ~90 minutes.
Now, THAT could be the perfectly circular trajectory illustrated.
This may be what happens when there is extremely high margins on propellants and thruster lifetime. 
They do what they want without economizing.

As I understand it. the fly-around is lasting a full ISS orbit, which makes sense for orbital mechanics, and I'd guess the extra burns (2-4) are for shaping the path around the ISS. We'll see if they're actually used..
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: hektor on 11/08/2021 07:20 pm
Is the queue behind control centre for SpaceX catering ?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 11/08/2021 07:38 pm
Is the queue behind control centre for SpaceX catering?
Yes, that's the SpaceX lunchroom ("lunch" being generalized to 24/7 services, I believe).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jorge on 11/09/2021 12:26 am
Nice fly around graph after undocking

How long will the fly around take with the four burns?
It could be done with a single burn, but that would take a full orbit, ~90 minutes.
Now, THAT could be a the perfectly circular trajectory illustrated.

Nope. A single-burn, one-orbit, in-plane flyaround will have elliptical relative motion, with 2:1 horizontal:vertical proportion.

To fly circular relative motion requires either multiple burns, or a flyaround tilted out-of-plane 60 degrees (such that the in-plane *projection* of the relative motion retains the 2:1 proportion).
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Halidon on 11/09/2021 02:29 am
Beautiful WB-57 thermal shot at the end of the blackout period.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: punder on 11/09/2021 02:40 am
Well that was exciting.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: CameronD on 11/09/2021 05:18 am
Crew-2: Astronauts Safely Return to Earth at 10:33 p.m. EST

It occurs to me that perhaps the only people not that happy about this might be the Starliner Crew astronauts.. I guess they picked the wrong horse??
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lars-J on 11/09/2021 05:24 am
Crew-2: Astronauts Safely Return to Earth at 10:33 p.m. EST

It occurs to me that perhaps the only people not that happy about this might be the Starliner Crew astronauts.. I guess they picked the wrong horse??
Huh? You really think they would have preferred if they did not return safely? Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: charlielowndes on 11/09/2021 05:57 am
Thinking out loud here.

What was going on with that 4th chute? Will NASA want/need a review before launching again? What would that mean for ops on station?

I know that no-one has answered for these questions, so I guess what I'm asking is, Did that 4th chute look off nominal to anyone else for a significant period? I just didn't seem to want to inflate...
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lars-J on 11/09/2021 07:44 am
Thinking out loud here.

What was going on with that 4th chute? Will NASA want/need a review before launching again? What would that mean for ops on station?

I know that no-one has answered for these questions, so I guess what I'm asking is, Did that 4th chute look off nominal to anyone else for a significant period? I just didn't seem to want to inflate...
Yes they will review. And yes it inflated slowly, but it did inflate.

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1457933750151622658
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 11/09/2021 11:25 am
Attached are screenshots of the parachute deployment.
Links to the webcast:
  01:36:32 (https://youtube.com/watch?v=KmMPsrUC-LY&t=1h36m32s)  Drogues
  01:37:11 (https://youtube.com/watch?v=KmMPsrUC-LY&t=1h37m11s)  Drogue Separation and Main Chute Delpoy
  01:37:37 (https://youtube.com/watch?v=KmMPsrUC-LY&t=1h37m37s)  Callout: "Dragon, visual on four healthy mains.  Descent rate nominal."
  01:38:35 (https://youtube.com/watch?v=KmMPsrUC-LY&t=1h38m35s)  Fourth main chute finally starts its full inflation.
The fourth parachute completed its full inflation about 60 to 70 seconds after the other three.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jimmy10 on 11/09/2021 11:29 am
Wonder how decent speed changed over that sequence?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: darkenfast on 11/09/2021 11:38 am
I see SpaceX has redone their main Mission Control in Hawthorne (or at least, this is the first time I noticed it!). Anyway, I hope the slow inflation of the chute doesn't cause any delays to Crew-3's launch. Welcome Home!
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Hyperborealis on 11/09/2021 11:44 am
Liked how in the old setup you would see Gwynne and sometimes Elon watching front and center. Now the place where they would sit seems to be gone. Too bad. Gave a sense they were all one scrappy team.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vettedrmr on 11/09/2021 11:46 am
Eric Burger's tweet in post #359 says a delay is possible.  OTOH, Kathy Leuders said that they've seen this behavior before and the deceleration rates were nominal, so hopefully not.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 11/09/2021 11:59 am
Wonder how decent speed changed over that sequence?
I understand that three mains are sufficient for nominal splashdown velocity, but yes, it would be interesting to hear what effect the final main had.  (Imagine the graphs we'd have if SpaceX shared their all their telemetry with OneSpeed!  :) )  Per the webcast, the drogues slowed the capsule from 350 mph (563 km/h, 156 m/s) to 120 mph (193 km/h, 54 m/s), with the mains bringing it down to about 15 mph (24 km/h, 6.7 m/s) for splashdown.

I recall someone (woods170?) writing of the effects of having only one or two working mains.  Given new attention to the parachutes, could they please repeat that here?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 11/09/2021 01:45 pm
Would NASA and SpaceX even be in this situation if ASAP had not insisted on a fourth main parachute for Dragon v2?

From my viewpoint as a "not a spacecraft engineer," I perceive the fourth chute as an over-complexification.

[Eric Berger tweet]
Quote from: Kathy Lueders from article
The team will be going off and looking at how the loading was on the chute and understanding that behavior.  It is behavior that we have seen multiple times in other tests,  and it usually happens when the lines kind of bunch up together until the aero forces kind of open up and spread the chutes.  The thing that makes me feel a little bit more confident is that the loading and deceleration of the spacecraft all looked nominal.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: TrevorMonty on 11/09/2021 02:25 pm
Would NASA and SpaceX even be in this situation if ASAP had not insisted on a fourth main parachute for Dragon v2?

From my viewpoint as a "not a spacecraft engineer," I perceive the fourth chute as an over-complexification.

[Eric Berger tweet]
Quote from: Kathy Lueders from article
The team will be going off and looking at how the loading was on the chute and understanding that behavior.  It is behavior that we have seen multiple times in other tests,  and it usually happens when the lines kind of bunch up together until the aero forces kind of open up and spread the chutes.  The thing that makes me feel a little bit more confident is that the loading and deceleration of the spacecraft all looked nominal.
The Orion, Starliner and New Shepard all use 3 chutes. NS has demonstrated a safe test landing under two. Not sure about Orion or Starliner but would've hope they have.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Oersted on 11/09/2021 02:32 pm
over-complexification.

I saw what you did there    ;-)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kdhilliard on 11/09/2021 02:33 pm
Would NASA and SpaceX even be in this situation if ASAP had not insisted on a fourth main parachute for Dragon v2?

From my viewpoint as a "not a spacecraft engineer," I perceive the fourth chute as an over-complexification.

Interesting.  So you're suggesting that this type of malfunction may be less likely to occur (or more likely to quickly clear) for one of three parachutes than one of four, either because it is induced by the bunching of the chutes (though I interpreted Lueders' "lines kind of bunch up together" as being the lines of a single cute) or that the greater descent rate under two full and one partial chute would induce the greater aero forces necessary to open up and spread the chute?

Perhaps.  But if such a malfunctions is just as likely to occur with a 3 chute configuration, this might be seen as vindication of that decision.  That fourth chute took 70 seconds longer than expected to fully open, and it did so only 90 seconds before splashdown.  Had it been one of three and happened to take twice as long to clear its malfunction, it would have made for a hard landing.

It's a shame that the camera was out of focus for the few seconds before 01:37:26 in the webcast -- the photo (posted above (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=51530.msg2308376#msg2308376)) at that timestamp is the first clearly showing the malfunction -- but it appears to have started with the initial unreefing five seconds earlier.  What looks like vertical slots in the canopy of the two front chutes in that photo are folds in the canopy, presumably held in by the reefing.  (I assume that was normal behavior.)  For the misbehaving chute, it look as if at initial unreefing those folds continued inward instead of opening outward.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ZachS09 on 11/09/2021 03:55 pm
Would NASA and SpaceX even be in this situation if ASAP had not insisted on a fourth main parachute for Dragon v2?

From my viewpoint as a "not a spacecraft engineer," I perceive the fourth chute as an over-complexification.

[Eric Berger tweet]
Quote from: Kathy Lueders from article
The team will be going off and looking at how the loading was on the chute and understanding that behavior.  It is behavior that we have seen multiple times in other tests,  and it usually happens when the lines kind of bunch up together until the aero forces kind of open up and spread the chutes.  The thing that makes me feel a little bit more confident is that the loading and deceleration of the spacecraft all looked nominal.
The Orion, Starliner and New Shepard all use 3 chutes. NS has demonstrated a safe test landing under two. Not sure about Orion or Starliner but would've hope they have.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk



During the Starliner Pad Abort Test, the spacecraft test article landed on two chutes because the third one didn't open. The pin in the third chute's pilot chute apparently wasn't positioned right, which I see as human error.

Boeing still called it a success.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: zubenelgenubi on 11/09/2021 03:57 pm
My italics added to KDH's post:
Interesting.  So you're suggesting that this type of malfunction may be less likely to occur (or more likely to quickly clear) for one of three parachutes than one of four, [Option 1] either because it is induced by the bunching of the chutes (though I interpreted Lueders' "lines kind of bunch up together" as being the lines of a single cute) or [Option 2] the greater descent rate under two full and one partial chute would induce the greater aero forces necessary to open up and spread the chute?
Yes, particularly to "option 1."
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: intelati on 11/09/2021 04:57 pm
Interesting.  So you're suggesting that this type of malfunction may be less likely to occur (or more likely to quickly clear) for one of three parachutes than one of four, either because it is induced by the bunching of the chutes (though I interpreted Lueders' "lines kind of bunch up together" as being the lines of a single cute) or that the greater descent rate under two full and one partial chute would induce the greater aero forces necessary to open up and spread the chute?
Yes.

I tend to agree with you. Right now, I don't nearly have enough data to determine "How worried" I should be. I'm sure they will be able to figure out *why* the chute took longer to open. And IIRC, Dragon 2 was initially designed with three chutes for the redundancy already built in, no? That just screams the forces are different and makes these situations much more common. And something like 1.5 redundancy (2 chutes under emergency for a hard landing....) seems overkill. But, ASAP was created to be conservative...
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: LouScheffer on 11/09/2021 06:17 pm
Note that the last chute to open has MUCH less aerodynamic force on it, trying to push it open.

Assuming the nominal descent speed is 6.7 m/s with all 4 chutes, and force goes like v^2, and they open sequentially:

The first chute to open sees an airspeed of 54 m/s, and slows the capsule to 13.4 m/s.
The second chute sees an opening airflow of 13.4 m/s, and slows the capsule to 9.5 m/s.
The third chute sees an airflow of 9.5 m/s, and slows the capsule to 7.7 m/s.
The fourth chute sees an airflow of 7.7 m/s, and slows the capsule to 6.7 m/s.

So the ratios of the opening forces, from the fourth to  the first, are 1:1.5:3:49 .

So the last chute has way less forces than numbers 1 and 2, and significantly less forces than number 3.



Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/09/2021 06:25 pm
Note that the last chute to open has MUCH less aerodynamic force on it, trying to push it open.

Assuming the nominal descent speed is 6.7 m/s with all 4 chutes, and force goes like v^2, and they open sequentially:

The first chute to open sees an airspeed of 54 m/s, and slows the capsule to 13.4 m/s.
The second chute sees an opening airflow of 13.4 m/s, and slows the capsule to 9.5 m/s.
The third chute sees an airflow of 9.5 m/s, and slows the capsule to 7.7 m/s.
The fourth chute sees an airflow of 7.7 m/s, and slows the capsule to 6.7 m/s.

So the ratios of the opening forces, from the fourth to  the first, are 1:1.5:3:49 .

So the last chute has way less forces than numbers 1 and 2, and significantly less forces than number 3.

That's assuming they open sequentially, which they aren't supposed to.  If they open in parallel, they all see the same forces.  Unfortunately on this flight, that fourth one didn't open in parallel with the others and I strongly suspect your analysis is exactly why it took so long to eventually open - because the other three had reduced dynamic pressure by such a large amount.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: slobber91 on 11/09/2021 08:39 pm
Real world example of the impact of a failed parachute on landing velocity:  during coverage of the Apollo 15's splashdown with a failed parachute (linked below), the NASA commentator indicates that the effect of landing with two parachutes instead of three was an increase of splashdown velocity from 28 ft/s to 32 ft/s. (46:12 in the linked video).

https://youtu.be/gzi3WjowX0k?t=2764
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: ShaunML09 on 11/09/2021 08:55 pm
Former SpaceX lead confirming this is not a failure but a "lagging" parachute which can happen on occasion

https://twitter.com/SpaceAbhi/status/1458144778692927494

https://twitter.com/SpaceAbhi/status/1458144980527042565

So looks like everybody above was on point. 
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: AS_501 on 11/10/2021 04:15 am
SpaceX's Bill Gerstenmaier says the slow opening parachute was returned to KSC, suspended from a crane and inspected in detail; no problems were found and "we don't see anything that's off nominal;" he said the Crew Dragon can safely land with just 3 chutes

https://mobile.twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1458289899778478081

In fact, Dragon's 4 chutes seems overkill.  Remember that Apollo 15 landed fine with just 2 of 3 chutes.  Same during Starliner's abort test.  Then there is Soyuz......
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: eeergo on 11/10/2021 07:57 am
SpaceX's Bill Gerstenmaier says the slow opening parachute was returned to KSC, suspended from a crane and inspected in detail; no problems were found and "we don't see anything that's off nominal;" he said the Crew Dragon can safely land with just 3 chutes

https://mobile.twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1458289899778478081

In fact, Dragon's 4 chutes seems overkill.  Remember that Apollo 15 landed fine with just 2 of 3 chutes.  Same during Starliner's abort test.  Then there is Soyuz......

What matters is not the number of parachutes, but their canopy, aerodynamics and the load's weight. AFAIK Dragon doesn't have backup parachutes, so its redundancy with four is actually its nominally-built-in redundancy. I believe it is designed to be fail-safe with three, and survivable with just two, but it could as easily be designed so that four are essential. Comparing it with Soyuz, which for starters is lighter and has a backup parachute that nominally doesn't need to deploy, is quite fallacious.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: eeergo on 11/10/2021 03:24 pm
FWIW:
https://twitter.com/waynehale/status/1458452706272718861

I'm old enough to remember watching a documentary about STS-107 15-20 years ago, whose name I can't remember, where privatization (United Space Alliance) was blamed from some space officials as at least a contributing cause to the disaster (IIRC the paraphrased quote was something along the lines of "we're handing off maintenance and operations of the most complex system in the world, that has to fly crew and carry out the most demanding space missions, to the lowest bidder"), together with normalization of deviance in the analysis being a pervasive issue within the Shuttle program. I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember Gerst testimony was in there too.

Not saying this issue is necessarily at the same level of importance, especially considering they've tested the system one and two chutes out - but it's telling relevant people are being spooked by the attitude.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: lenny97 on 11/10/2021 03:52 pm
Not saying this issue is necessarily at the same level of importance [...]


In my honest opinion it's obviously necessary to do an in-depth review of data and analysis. But i think also that it is creating more chaos than it should.
And I'm not minimizing, mind you. I'm just saying that the system was originally designed with 3 parachutes. And it would have been safe anyway...

They requested four and got them. The behavior seen the other night had already been noticed during the tests, so nothing new.
It did not impact the mission in any way.
It was not a total failure of the parachute (eg detachment) that could have caused much more concern.
They carried out post-landing checks.
Personally, I am amazed how everyone cares that much about a (redundant) parachute that takes one minute longer to inflate, nearly as much as an ISS module that goes crazy and activates thrusters.  ???
I repeat: carrying out the checks is always and in any case necessary. But analyzing the words too, no, it seems excessive to me... ;) :)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/10/2021 03:58 pm
Not saying this issue is necessarily at the same level of importance [...]


In my honest opinion it's obviously necessary to do an in-depth review of data and analysis. But i think also that it is creating more chaos than it should.
And I'm not minimizing, mind you. I'm just saying that the system was originally designed with 3 parachutes. And it would have been safe anyway...

They requested four and got them. The behavior seen the other night had already been noticed during the tests, so nothing new.
It did not impact the mission in any way.
It was not a total failure of the parachute (eg detachment) that could have caused much more concern.
They carried out post-landing checks.
Personally, I am amazed how everyone cares that much about a (redundant) parachute that takes one minute longer to inflate, nearly as much as an ISS module that goes crazy and activates thrusters.  ???
I repeat: carrying out the checks is always and in any case necessary. But analyzing the words too, this no, it seems excessive to me... ;) :)

The concern is, could this situation lead to something more dire?  Could it cause a line-twist or could the non-inflated chute get wrapped around the other chutes?  I'm making up random stuff not to highlight these specific things but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned, you have to look at the next thing that could happen, and the next to see if the system is *really* safe, given the occasional slow-opening chute.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: lenny97 on 11/10/2021 04:08 pm
I'm making up random stuff not to highlight these specific things but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned, you have to look at the next thing that could happen, and the next to see if the system is *really* safe, given the occasional slow-opening chute.



And that's why I stressed the importance of testing, data reviews, and all necessary inspections.
But it gets a bit snooty to analyze words in such a situation...
And, btw, we know NASA and its close ties: if they weren't confident (and then if it weren't true that this behavior has already been seen during testing) they wouldn't have proceeded with tonight's launch. :)

And also the risks associated with this phenomenon: if it was seen in tests, they were analyzed.
I doubt SpaceX and NASA don't delve into what-if scenarios resulting from any kind of parachute failure... :D
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: AS_501 on 11/10/2021 05:04 pm
SpaceX's Bill Gerstenmaier says the slow opening parachute was returned to KSC, suspended from a crane and inspected in detail; no problems were found and "we don't see anything that's off nominal;" he said the Crew Dragon can safely land with just 3 chutes

https://mobile.twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/1458289899778478081

In fact, Dragon's 4 chutes seems overkill.  Remember that Apollo 15 landed fine with just 2 of 3 chutes.  Same during Starliner's abort test.  Then there is Soyuz......

What matters is not the number of parachutes, but their canopy, aerodynamics and the load's weight. AFAIK Dragon doesn't have backup parachutes, so its redundancy with four is actually its nominally-built-in redundancy. I believe it is designed to be fail-safe with three, and survivable with just two, but it could as easily be designed so that four are essential. Comparing it with Soyuz, which for starters is lighter and has a backup parachute that nominally doesn't need to deploy, is quite fallacious.

Interesting.  I didn't know Soyuz had a backup.  Thanks eeergo.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: alugobi on 11/10/2021 06:38 pm
Quote
but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned,
Or not as expected, we're accustomed to NASA hunkering down, putting everything on hold, and paralyzing by analyzing.

What a happy surprise that, in the current case, they didn't overreact, but came right out and said that it's been modeled and seen before and no big deal, let's launch the next one.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vettedrmr on 11/10/2021 06:56 pm
It's more than that they've seen it before, but also that they had data from those flights, and data from this flight, plus inspections of the suspect chute post-flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: CameronD on 11/11/2021 01:14 am
Crew-2: Astronauts Safely Return to Earth at 10:33 p.m. EST

It occurs to me that perhaps the only people not that happy about this might be the Starliner Crew astronauts.. I guess they picked the wrong horse??
Huh? You really think they would have preferred if they did not return safely? Care to elaborate?

I'm merely pointing out that Dragon Crew-2 have successfully launched, completed their mission, landed safely and we're onto Crew-3 already... whilst Sunita Williams and her Starliner Crew colleagues are still sitting on their tails, going through the training, waiting, waiting to even get as far as a test launch!

Heck, we may even see Cosmonauts getting into orbit on Dragon before the queue of Starliner astros starts moving. I feel sorry for them.
 
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 11/11/2021 05:23 am
...together with normalization of deviance in the analysis being a pervasive issue within the Shuttle program. I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember Gerst testimony was in there too.

That was my first reaction when I heard NASA's response. Just because this time they got away with it, doesn't mean that next time there could be a bigger problem. To me this is a design problem that need's to be fixed as soon as possible.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Comga on 11/11/2021 05:53 am
...together with normalization of deviance in the analysis being a pervasive issue within the Shuttle program. I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember Gerst testimony was in there too.

That was my first reaction when I heard NASA's response. Just because this time they got away with it, doesn't mean that next time there could be a bigger problem. To me this is a design problem that need's to be fixed as soon as possible.

It's only "normalization of deviance" if it is a deviance.
If it is behavior seen in tests and within the range of variance expected from testing and modeling and seen by hardware inspection after the event that no damage was done, then it's not deviance.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kevinof on 11/11/2021 07:58 am
...together with normalization of deviance in the analysis being a pervasive issue within the Shuttle program. I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember Gerst testimony was in there too.

That was my first reaction when I heard NASA's response. Just because this time they got away with it, doesn't mean that next time there could be a bigger problem. To me this is a design problem that need's to be fixed as soon as possible.
On the press call last night they talked about the chutes and they say it's unique to this type if chute. In their testing of 3 chutes only the slow opening never happens.

When you go to 4 chutes and one is initially a little behind the others then it falls further behind as the air flow reduces as the load on this chute is much smaller.
 
They also said that once you get to lower altitude it always opens.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: su27k on 11/11/2021 09:26 am
Some details regarding the parachute issue in a reply to Wayne Hale:

https://twitter.com/DutchSatellites/status/1458476708315766784

Quote
NASA forced SpaceX to do a extensive series of drop tests to characterise the behaviour of a 4-chute system, given that every prior system had 3 chutes. From those drop tests (over 30 of them) it was determined that 1 parachute opening slow is characteristic for 4-chute systems.



In other words: one of four parachutes sometimes opening slower than the other three is not discrepant behaviour.
Discrepant behaviour would be the parachute staying closed all the way to splashdown. Or the chute failing to deploy at all. Or failing to reef.
2/2.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: eeergo on 11/11/2021 09:31 am
...together with normalization of deviance in the analysis being a pervasive issue within the Shuttle program. I might be mistaken, but I seem to remember Gerst testimony was in there too.

That was my first reaction when I heard NASA's response. Just because this time they got away with it, doesn't mean that next time there could be a bigger problem. To me this is a design problem that need's to be fixed as soon as possible.

On the press call last night they talked about the chutes and they say it's unique to this type if chute. In their testing of 3 chutes only the slow opening never happens.

When you go to 4 chutes and one is initially a little behind the others then it falls further behind as the air flow reduces as the load on this chute is much smaller.
 
They also said that once you get to lower altitude it always opens.

If I'm not mistaken, they had pretty mixed results in the 3-parachute configuration (not necessarily due to slow openings), with old inadequate "Mark" designs that got superseded by the current canopy only tested in the 4-parachute configuration. Not sure anyone can say slow openings "never happen" with three chutes with the available data, or that it "always opens" at low altitude for that matter.

Once again, the issue is probably moot and benign. Still, it sends red flags flying when the condition seems not to be well understood but is stamped as "in family" from a finite, relatively small subset of tests, in such a dynamic system. I want to believe a team is already working on improving the system in order to design the issue out so that it moves from "probable but benign, we hope" to "very rare and quite confidently benign".

After all, seal burnthroughs were a known in-family condition, thoroughly tested and observed in recovered hardware, that never resulted in actual danger (until you threw in another confounding factor: temperature). Actually, if you took a special subset of launch and processing conditions that might not reflect the operational, nominal system, it never happened!

Foam shedding was also well characterized and happened in every flight. It was not well understood in terms of mechanism, mitigations or impacts to heat shields in the case of rare events (large pieces reaching sweet spots), but it was widely accepted foam was too fluffy to worry about, also based on "in-family" records of hundreds of flights and ground tests. In fact, if you considered the acreage foam and not the few ramps and embellishers making up a tiny percentage of the foam content of the tank, no large pieces were shed at all!

Not to mention the insignificant issue of bent contact pins in boosters caused during integration, that hadn't been cause lf concern or given visible trouble for thousands of flights, and certainly wouldn't give trouble in such a robust staging system that independently severed the aft booster attachment struts while shutting down the engines. Surely the upper LOX vent valve operation was just an extra layer of safety that couldn't really affect the launch much, certainly not by ripping the core open!

You see what I mean...
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/11/2021 09:51 am
Quote
but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned,
Or not as expected, we're accustomed to NASA hunkering down, putting everything on hold, and paralyzing by analyzing.

What a happy surprise that, in the current case, they didn't overreact, but came right out and said that it's been modeled and seen before and no big deal, let's launch the next one.

Which is what they said about seal burn through and foam liberation as well.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kevinof on 11/11/2021 10:21 am
Right so instead of a FUD post why don't you impart your wisdom and let us all know what they should be doing?  They have done 30 tests so is it more testing that (in your opinion) should be done? if so how many tests are needed? 40, 50 or maybe 100 tests? Love to know what your magic number is?

Or maybe you think Dragon isn't safe at all. So, in your opinion, should it be grounded? And if so then what? A new magic chute design that doesn't behave this way. Again love to know of your wisdom on this.

FUD posts are easy. Coming up with solutions or real fixes are hard.

Quote
but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned,
Or not as expected, we're accustomed to NASA hunkering down, putting everything on hold, and paralyzing by analyzing.

What a happy surprise that, in the current case, they didn't overreact, but came right out and said that it's been modeled and seen before and no big deal, let's launch the next one.

Which is what they said about seal burn through and foam liberation as well.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jimmy10 on 11/11/2021 11:05 am
Question unrelated to parachutes...  I'm wondering if there is a planned order for crew to exit the capsule.  It seems to be at best random and at worst sexist?  Ladies always seem to go first (except Crew 1)?  Might it be medically influenced?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: eeergo on 11/11/2021 12:08 pm
Right so instead of a FUD post why don't you impart your wisdom and let us all know what they should be doing?  They have done 30 tests so is it more testing that (in your opinion) should be done? if so how many tests are needed? 40, 50 or maybe 100 tests? Love to know what your magic number is?

Or maybe you think Dragon isn't safe at all. So, in your opinion, should it be grounded? And if so then what? A new magic chute design that doesn't behave this way. Again love to know of your wisdom on this.

FUD posts are easy. Coming up with solutions or real fixes are hard.

Quote
but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned,
Or not as expected, we're accustomed to NASA hunkering down, putting everything on hold, and paralyzing by analyzing.

What a happy surprise that, in the current case, they didn't overreact, but came right out and said that it's been modeled and seen before and no big deal, let's launch the next one.

Which is what they said about seal burn through and foam liberation as well.

Please don't dismiss with the all-encompassing, insulting "FUD" fanboi expression what instead is a measured and constructive critique - unless you're willing to explain how that's qualitatively different from similar dismissals in the historic situations above.

NASA's winning approach (and generally, the sector's too) has been for known "funnies" to be designed out, so that they become rare or even impossible occurrences - especially when the risk to encounter the "funny" will be incurred for an indeterminate amount of missions for an unbounded amount of time. This is true in general, but particularly so when the root cause isn't known beyond phenomenologically (i.e. "it happens from time to time with unknown frequency due to reasons too complicated to study deterministically").

Given the extensive test data they have, we're acknowledging that the issue might be truly moot in the first place, or even that Dragon can just continue operating for as long as necessary while the redesign is leisurely implemented.

What people are getting spooked about is that (1) there is a known "funny" (2) that is assumed to be a "funny" based on a handful of four-parachute Mk-3 design low-altitude drop tests (3) whose root cause is not deterministically understood (4) that may or may not be representative of the conditions seen during operational flights (packing storage time, temperatures, pressure changes, other non-obvious things...), and (5) doesn't publicly appear to be prompting a redesign effort, but rather seems to be heading to the archive as an "in family" "funny".

The combination of (1-5), and its possible consequences, have been empirically seen before. Thousands of operational launches, hundreds of ground tests and analysis cycles, mitigated short-term failures BUT were NOT enough to foresee the catastrophic implications of most of the causes of LOV/C events in history - it was rather long-term acceptance of known "funnies" which eventually proved to be something more.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: LouScheffer on 11/11/2021 12:30 pm
Another point about the parachutes is that failures are anti-correlated, which is unusual.

For example, if you hold things together with 4 bolts, and one fails, then the other 3 are under higher load and more likely to break.  This exact behavior was demonstrated in the Arecibo collapse, where a failed cable put more strain on the others.

But if the parachute problem is insufficient aerodynamic forces, then the problem will more likely occur precisely because the other parachutes worked correctly. In fact the more other parachutes worked correctly, the less the forces, and the more likely a failure to inflate promptly will happen to the last chute.

On the other hand, there is also a human pride explanation that is not so re-assuring.  IIRC, Dragon originally had 3 chutes, as did Apollo before that.  It was NASA that asked (demanded) that SpaceX switch to 4 chutes, at the cost of delay, expense, more tests, etc.   To then say oops, 4 chutes has this slow-opening problem, our demand was actually counter-productive, and we should go back to three chutes would be embarrassing to both NASA and the people involved.  So there is psychological pressure to say this is not a serious problem, and four chutes is in fact safer.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: soltasto on 11/11/2021 12:57 pm

What people are getting spooked about is that (1) there is a known "funny" (2) that is assumed to be a "funny" based on a handful of four-parachute Mk-3 design low-altitude drop tests (3) whose root cause is not deterministically understood (4) that may or may not be representative of the conditions seen during operational flights (packing storage time, temperatures, pressure changes, other non-obvious things...), and (5) doesn't publicly appear to be prompting a redesign effort, but rather seems to be heading to the archive as an "in family" "funny".


Except it is an understood phenomenon, as reported here:

Former SpaceX lead confirming this is not a failure but a "lagging" parachute which can happen on occasion

https://twitter.com/SpaceAbhi/status/1458144778692927494

https://twitter.com/SpaceAbhi/status/1458144980527042565

So looks like everybody above was on point.

The non deterministic part that causes either the "normal" behavior or this behavior is not the system itself but the aerodynamics behind the capsule. If some turbulence causes one parachute to push on another as it is deploying thus slowing down its full inflation, which will occur anyways a bit later, it is not an issue if the parachute system is designed to take that into account. You can't remove the uncertainty from a variable you can't control, you can only make sure that the system behaves well under all circumstances in that uncertainty range.
Making an example, this is like having your car brakes and tires working normally on a dry road and thinking that it is an issue when it takes longer to brake on a wet road. Since car manufacturers can't control if the road is wet or not, they can only verify that the car can still stop while maintaining control and within a reasonable time. The physics dictate that the tires grip will be worse on a wet road, and while for sure car manufacturers could engineer a complex and expensive system that fixes "the issue", the added design would just not be worth it as if you just drive your car within the limits it is perfectly safe to do so.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kevinof on 11/11/2021 01:25 pm
So first off, I ain't no SpaceX amazing people so my post was nothing to do with defending SpaceX but more about getting people to drop the easy one-liners and instead back up their opinion (right or wrong) with their arguments and let everyone debate, support or refute.

Your post quote here is substantive and lays our your position and view and that's great. The other post not so much.

Now back to the cutes - This interaction of 4 chutes is well known and also understood. So long as there was no external damage that caused the slow opening it appears that the delayed opening is not a safety issue. SpaceX brought the chute back to NASA, hoisted it on a crane and did an inspection to check for just this.

The alternative is to go back to 3 chutes where this problem will not happen but then you lose the added bonus of a 4th backup chute which still works even with a delayed opening.


Right so instead of a FUD post why don't you impart your wisdom and let us all know what they should be doing?  They have done 30 tests so is it more testing that (in your opinion) should be done? if so how many tests are needed? 40, 50 or maybe 100 tests? Love to know what your magic number is?

Or maybe you think Dragon isn't safe at all. So, in your opinion, should it be grounded? And if so then what? A new magic chute design that doesn't behave this way. Again love to know of your wisdom on this.

FUD posts are easy. Coming up with solutions or real fixes are hard.

Quote
but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned,
Or not as expected, we're accustomed to NASA hunkering down, putting everything on hold, and paralyzing by analyzing.

What a happy surprise that, in the current case, they didn't overreact, but came right out and said that it's been modeled and seen before and no big deal, let's launch the next one.

Which is what they said about seal burn through and foam liberation as well.

Please don't dismiss with the all-encompassing, insulting "FUD" fanboi expression what instead is a measured and constructive critique - unless you're willing to explain how that's qualitatively different from similar dismissals in the historic situations above.

NASA's winning approach (and generally, the sector's too) has been for known "funnies" to be designed out, so that they become rare or even impossible occurrences - especially when the risk to encounter the "funny" will be incurred for an indeterminate amount of missions for an unbounded amount of time. This is true in general, but particularly so when the root cause isn't known beyond phenomenologically (i.e. "it happens from time to time with unknown frequency due to reasons too complicated to study deterministically").

Given the extensive test data they have, we're acknowledging that the issue might be truly moot in the first place, or even that Dragon can just continue operating for as long as necessary while the redesign is leisurely implemented.

What people are getting spooked about is that (1) there is a known "funny" (2) that is assumed to be a "funny" based on a handful of four-parachute Mk-3 design low-altitude drop tests (3) whose root cause is not deterministically understood (4) that may or may not be representative of the conditions seen during operational flights (packing storage time, temperatures, pressure changes, other non-obvious things...), and (5) doesn't publicly appear to be prompting a redesign effort, but rather seems to be heading to the archive as an "in family" "funny".

The combination of (1-5), and its possible consequences, have been empirically seen before. Thousands of operational launches, hundreds of ground tests and analysis cycles, mitigated short-term failures BUT were NOT enough to foresee the catastrophic implications of most of the causes of LOV/C events in history - it was rather long-term acceptance of known "funnies" which eventually proved to be something more.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: eeergo on 11/11/2021 01:31 pm

What people are getting spooked about is that (1) there is a known "funny" (2) that is assumed to be a "funny" based on a handful of four-parachute Mk-3 design low-altitude drop tests (3) whose root cause is not deterministically understood (4) that may or may not be representative of the conditions seen during operational flights (packing storage time, temperatures, pressure changes, other non-obvious things...), and (5) doesn't publicly appear to be prompting a redesign effort, but rather seems to be heading to the archive as an "in family" "funny".


Except it is an understood phenomenon, as reported here:

Former SpaceX lead confirming this is not a failure but a "lagging" parachute which can happen on occasion

https://twitter.com/SpaceAbhi/status/1458144980527042565 (https://twitter.com/SpaceAbhi/status/1458144980527042565)

So looks like everybody above was on point.

The non deterministic part that causes either the "normal" behavior or this behavior is not the system itself but the aerodynamics behind the capsule. If some turbulence causes one parachute to push on another as it is deploying thus slowing down its full inflation, which will occur anyways a bit later, it is not an issue if the parachute system is designed to take that into account. You can't remove the uncertainty from a variable you can't control, you can only make sure that the system behaves well under all circumstances in that uncertainty range.
Making an example, this is like having your car brakes and tires working normally on a dry road and thinking that it is an issue when it takes longer to brake on a wet road. Since car manufacturers can't control if the road is wet or not, they can only verify that the car can still stop while maintaining control and within a reasonable time. The physics dictate that the tires grip will be worse on a wet road, and while for sure car manufacturers could engineer a complex and expensive system that fixes "the issue", the added design would just not be worth it as if you just drive your car within the limits it is perfectly safe to do so.

The issue is known, but the root cause does not appear not be entirely under control, which is what's being argued. In fact, you say the non-deterministic cause is the capsule's wake flow, while the very tweet you quote (by an biased party, being SpaceX's former director) states it's understood to be a consequence of parachute crowding, not of turbulence directly.

Not being an expert on this, I decided to have a shallow look at what we're talking about here. Turns out that the "lead-lag" term he employs is actually a generic one referring to "undesirable frequency responses" (as per Wikipedia's definition), which has a whole field of "compensators" to mitigate them. In fact, if you google "lead lag parachute" you get some papers such as this one: https://airborne-sys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/aiaa-1999-1700_evolution_of_the_ringsail.pdf (https://airborne-sys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/aiaa-1999-1700_evolution_of_the_ringsail.pdf) or this one from old-friend Kistler https://airborne-sys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/aiaa-1999-1707_design_and_testing_of_the.pdf (https://airborne-sys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/aiaa-1999-1707_design_and_testing_of_the.pdf) that talk about many efforts to minimize lead-lag effects, as a variable you can't *null out* but definitely *can control*.

The comparison with car tyres is not really handsome, since heritage issues in fact prevent them to be as safe as their inherent design would allow, and many people "unnecessarily" die on the road worldwide because of it. Anyway, here we're not talking about the equivalent of a car manufacturer "controlling whether the road is wet or dry", which would translate into variable weather conditions for Dragon causing the parachute problems. An actual equivalent to a car scenario would be the acceptance of a significantly reduced factor of safety in braking action depending on a relatively frequent sloshing pattern of the brake fluid, which is known, classed as "in family" and not acted upon because it won't lead to a crash during a few hours of test driving - while summarily ruling out infrequent jamming of the other brakes because of possible one-in-a-thousand-times interactions.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: eeergo on 11/11/2021 01:35 pm
So first off, I ain't no SpaceX amazing people so my post was nothing to do with defending SpaceX but more about getting people to drop the easy one-liners and instead back up their opinion (right or wrong) with their arguments and let everyone debate, support or refute.

Your post quote here is substantive and lays our your position and view and that's great. The other post not so much.

Now back to the cutes - This interaction of 4 chutes is well known and also understood. So long as there was no external damage that caused the slow opening it appears that the delayed opening is not a safety issue. SpaceX brought the chute back to NASA, hoisted it on a crane and did an inspection to check for just this.

The alternative is to go back to 3 chutes where this problem will not happen but then you lose the added bonus of a 4th backup chute which still works even with a delayed opening.

Apologies for the qualifier then, but "FUD" is a well-known derogatory umbrella term in the Musk-verse for anything that is perceived to go against his interests. Glad to know it wasn't used in that vein.

There can be many mitigations tried that do not involve reducing the factor of safety by playing Salomon and deleting a chute from the design (that 4th chute was put in place for a reason, not just as a bout of "the more the merrier"). See the post above this one.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: mn on 11/11/2021 02:47 pm
Some thoughts.

It is 'understood' that the issue is caused by having 4 chutes which can cause one chute to lag.

If that understanding is correct then everything stands, whenever the problem occurs you are down to 3 (even if the 4th never recovers) and all is well.

The worry is that we may discover in the future that this 'understanding' was wrong and the problem is not due to having 4 chutes but rather with the chute design which can cause one (or more) chutes to fail randomly at any time.

If that hypothetical is true, going back to 3 chutes would be the worst possible solution. You are better off with 4 so if the problem occurs you are down to 3 (or 2 if the problem occurs on 2 chutes on the same bad day).

Now there is another hypothetical possibility: What if having 4 chutes can cause 2 to fail while having 3 chutes does not have that particular failure mode. I guess we can always worry but you can't just switch to 3 because of this worry when the other possibilities are worse with 3 chutes and considered more likely to be correct.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/11/2021 02:58 pm
Quote
but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned,
Or not as expected, we're accustomed to NASA hunkering down, putting everything on hold, and paralyzing by analyzing.

What a happy surprise that, in the current case, they didn't overreact, but came right out and said that it's been modeled and seen before and no big deal, let's launch the next one.

Which is what they said about seal burn through and foam liberation as well.

Right so instead of a FUD post why don't you impart your wisdom and let us all know what they should be doing?  They have done 30 tests so is it more testing that (in your opinion) should be done? if so how many tests are needed? 40, 50 or maybe 100 tests? Love to know what your magic number is?

Or maybe you think Dragon isn't safe at all. So, in your opinion, should it be grounded? And if so then what? A new magic chute design that doesn't behave this way. Again love to know of your wisdom on this.

FUD posts are easy. Coming up with solutions or real fixes are hard.

I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.  Shuttle had 112 flights, many with foam liberation, before the 113th killed 7 people and destroyed an orbiter.  If there's a rationale for the idea that one is far more likely to happen than two at the same time (because of them interacting with each other, for example) and you can show a satisfactory statistical likelihood that it's safe enough to meet your requirements for safety as it is, then fine, show that.  But don't just accept something like, "well we've done 30 tests and it never happened to more than one and we've done a few operational flights and it only happened once, so it must be okay."  That's not okay.  "It hasn't happened before" is not evidence that "it will never happen in the future".
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vettedrmr on 11/11/2021 03:11 pm
You imply that those 30 tests were all the same.  They're not.  They test different failure modes, multiple failure modes, etc. through that battery of tests.  IIRC the *final* test was a full up no-failure test to demonstrate normal operations, only because they hadn't done one since the beginning of the test phase.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Silmfeanor on 11/11/2021 03:17 pm
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix. 

Who says there should be a fix? The argument is whether this is normal or not. SpaceX might have done more then double the required tests and simulations, fully to NASA's safety boards satisfaction. Why do we think this needs fixing?
Quote
  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.  Shuttle had 112 flights, many with foam liberation, before the 113th killed 7 people and destroyed an orbiter.
Why wouldn't 30 tests be sufficient? Confidence in the system has a cut-off at some point, and if the confidence was reached by doing 30 tests....do we have any indication by anyone with insight that there should have been/be more tests?

Quote
If there's a rationale for the idea that one is far more likely to happen than two at the same time (because of them interacting with each other, for example) and you can show a satisfactory statistical likelihood that it's safe enough to meet your requirements for safety as it is, then fine, show that.
Since NASA and safety boards have accepted SpaceX's solution and testing history, including an occurence of this behaviour during these 30 flights, do we know that this hasnt been shown?

Quote
But don't just accept something like, "well we've done 30 tests and it never happened to more than one and we've done a few operational flights and it only happened once, so it must be okay."  That's not okay.  "It hasn't happened before" is not evidence that "it will never happen in the future".
I am sure that the certification board didn't do this, as such it is a straw man.

I mean, let me ask - do we have any indication that there is actually a problem?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: DanClemmensen on 11/11/2021 03:39 pm
Quote
but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned,
Or not as expected, we're accustomed to NASA hunkering down, putting everything on hold, and paralyzing by analyzing.

What a happy surprise that, in the current case, they didn't overreact, but came right out and said that it's been modeled and seen before and no big deal, let's launch the next one.

Which is what they said about seal burn through and foam liberation as well.

Right so instead of a FUD post why don't you impart your wisdom and let us all know what they should be doing?  They have done 30 tests so is it more testing that (in your opinion) should be done? if so how many tests are needed? 40, 50 or maybe 100 tests? Love to know what your magic number is?

Or maybe you think Dragon isn't safe at all. So, in your opinion, should it be grounded? And if so then what? A new magic chute design that doesn't behave this way. Again love to know of your wisdom on this.

FUD posts are easy. Coming up with solutions or real fixes are hard.

I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix. 
Since you are not a parachute expert, it's also not your job to decide that any fix is needed.  :)
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/11/2021 04:29 pm
Quote
but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned,
Or not as expected, we're accustomed to NASA hunkering down, putting everything on hold, and paralyzing by analyzing.

What a happy surprise that, in the current case, they didn't overreact, but came right out and said that it's been modeled and seen before and no big deal, let's launch the next one.

Which is what they said about seal burn through and foam liberation as well.

Right so instead of a FUD post why don't you impart your wisdom and let us all know what they should be doing?  They have done 30 tests so is it more testing that (in your opinion) should be done? if so how many tests are needed? 40, 50 or maybe 100 tests? Love to know what your magic number is?

Or maybe you think Dragon isn't safe at all. So, in your opinion, should it be grounded? And if so then what? A new magic chute design that doesn't behave this way. Again love to know of your wisdom on this.

FUD posts are easy. Coming up with solutions or real fixes are hard.

I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix. 
Since you are not a parachute expert, it's also not your job to decide that any fix is needed.  :)

I'm not deciding a fix is needed.  I am of the opinion that an investigation and thorough review is needed precisely for the reason that Wayne Hale said.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vettedrmr on 11/11/2021 04:59 pm
Why do you think that didn't happen?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/11/2021 05:04 pm
Why do you think that didn't happen?

Unless I've done the math wrong, crew-2 landing and crew-3 launch were 47 hours apart.  You really think that's enough time to do an "an investigation and thorough review"?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: DanClemmensen on 11/11/2021 05:26 pm
Quote
but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned,
Or not as expected, we're accustomed to NASA hunkering down, putting everything on hold, and paralyzing by analyzing.

What a happy surprise that, in the current case, they didn't overreact, but came right out and said that it's been modeled and seen before and no big deal, let's launch the next one.

Which is what they said about seal burn through and foam liberation as well.

Right so instead of a FUD post why don't you impart your wisdom and let us all know what they should be doing?  They have done 30 tests so is it more testing that (in your opinion) should be done? if so how many tests are needed? 40, 50 or maybe 100 tests? Love to know what your magic number is?

Or maybe you think Dragon isn't safe at all. So, in your opinion, should it be grounded? And if so then what? A new magic chute design that doesn't behave this way. Again love to know of your wisdom on this.

FUD posts are easy. Coming up with solutions or real fixes are hard.

I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix. 
Since you are not a parachute expert, it's also not your job to decide that any fix is needed.  :)

I'm not deciding a fix is needed.  I am of the opinion that an investigation and thorough review is needed precisely for the reason that Wayne Hale said.
I am absolutely not a parachute expert either, so I don't know how much effort "an investigation and thorough review" should take. I do know that a expert can in many cases do "an investigation and thorough review" in less than a minute when a phenomenon is extremely well understood. In many cases an experienced MD can perform a highly accurate diagnosis of a patient within five seconds of walking into a treatment room. I have no reason to believe that this is not the case here.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/11/2021 05:59 pm
I am absolutely not a parachute expert either, so I don't know how much effort "an investigation and thorough review" should take. I do know that a expert can in many cases do "an investigation and thorough review" in less than a minute when a phenomenon is extremely well understood. In many cases an experienced MD can perform a highly accurate diagnosis of a patient within five seconds of walking into a treatment room. I have no reason to believe that this is not the case here.

I've done so many such investigations that I've lost count.  I'm in the middle of one right now.  All of us doing these are experts in the field in question (not rocketry or parachutes).  I've never seen one take less than a month, and I have seen them take as long as 18 months.  I'd say the average is in the 3-6 months range.  In most cases, root cause can be found in a few days, but it can take a while to conclusively prove that determination and another while to develop and implement a successful mitigation plan.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Herb Schaltegger on 11/11/2021 06:15 pm
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible. The fact that you may not see it that way does not change that fact.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: thirtyone on 11/11/2021 07:05 pm
I think the difference between this and shuttle "out of family" incidents may be subtle, but substantial. I was very interested in parachute design for some time while both Starliner and Crew Dragon were having parachute issues, and ended up diving quite deep into various bits of their parachute design. My impression was that lead-lag on these parachutes is not only an understood phenomenon in the field but something that was encountered, documented, investigated, and understood for this design. It sounds like they launched again because they had criteria already set in place which covered the scenario and everything was within expectation (investigate if the slow inflation was due to allowable and expected aerodynamic conditions and not due to parachute damage). Not a "this is the worst bunching we've ever seen, the parachute lines nearly broke apart, and we have to launch anyway."

I guess what I'm thinking is this may be analogous to insisting on an investigation into a phenomenon that has already been fully investigated in advance. It sounds like the only people this effect worried is the public and not the actual engineers.

I should mention that there *are* things that have happened to Crew Dragon in the past that were clearly problematic (NOT within what engineering expected) and I believe went through a thorough investigation. They were just not as public (and frankly should have been more worrisome, if they hadn't been thoroughly investigated). In Crew-1 or Demo-2 (can't quite remember) there were heat tiles near some of the attach points that had ablated more than expected and ate into safety margins. I don't think it came out until immediately before the following launch, but they had apparently gone through a full review on the issue and a change was made to reduce ablation. For scale, it is my opinion that excess ablation of the heatshield beyond determined safety margins is a considerably more severe of an issue than a parachute inflating slowly that had already been documented as a safe and expected condition.

One of the purposes of me mentioning this is that the only reason everyone is so worried about this on a public forum (and why NASA probably even brought it up) was that the effect was incredibly obvious on the livestream. That does not mean it is actually incredibly unsafe condition. The excess heatshield ablation was not visible on a livestream yet was considerably more dangerous, and NASA did not publicly mention it until prior to the following launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/11/2021 07:16 pm
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.  I gave an example - Shuttle foam liberation caused less-than-catastrophic damage 112 times, and catastrophic damage on the 113th time.  This isn't about parachutes, it's about the idea that running a small number of tests is sufficient to demonstrate safety - it's not.  It's a part of the process that could be used to demonstrate safety.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: thirtyone on 11/11/2021 07:16 pm
I can probably find more in some previous posts, but these sorts of effects are described in quite a few papers on modern parachute design. Almost all of the public ones focus primarily on Orion, which has very similar issues due to a high count of large parachutes. In fact I believe the need for four parachutes directly comes from the fact that you can have slow (lagging) parachutes and fast (leading) parachutes along with the loads imparted by Crew Dragon. The variability in loading results in a need to add a parachute because it is occasionally possible that 1/3 parachutes inflates slowly and the variability in drag due to those atmospheric conditions can result in some edge cases with marginal safety limits. So they added a fourth, with similar lead-lag effects (can occasionally have 1/4 inflate slowly), but with overall better margins.

Random related article that was interesting:
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20130011421/downloads/20130011421.pdf

Lots more related ones mostly published under AIAA

Oh and FYI, lead-lag as described by that engineer is not the same as lead-lag in parachutes. They are literally talking about leading and lagging (fast and slow) parachutes. In feedback loops/electronics (which might be why he wanted to call it that) it's much harder to explain but it's a technique to help keep feedback loops stable.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: thirtyone on 11/11/2021 07:34 pm
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.  I gave an example - Shuttle foam liberation caused less-than-catastrophic damage 112 times, and catastrophic damage on the 113th time.  This isn't about parachutes, it's about the idea that running a small number of tests is sufficient to demonstrate safety - it's not.  It's a part of the process that could be used to demonstrate safety.

Admittedly a bit off topic, but I agree, and I wish we get to the day where we *can* run the test 200 times before putting people on it. Personally I think it's not even sufficiently safe to rely on processes (there is literally no way you can mathematically link a process to a safety reduction - it's really still a guess that doing it one way can improve safety), even though they can improve your odds that your safety factors what you think it is. Best way to know your failure rate in 200 launches is to launch 200 times.

For what it's worth, at least those 30 times weren't with humans at risk. Wish they did more of course. In fact I wish they could've launched Crew Dragon 200 times with dummies before putting humans on board, but I know that's not practical.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: abaddon on 11/11/2021 07:45 pm
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.  I gave an example - Shuttle foam liberation caused less-than-catastrophic damage 112 times, and catastrophic damage on the 113th time.  This isn't about parachutes, it's about the idea that running a small number of tests is sufficient to demonstrate safety - it's not.  It's a part of the process that could be used to demonstrate safety.
....and yet I'm sure you're all on board the Starliner in-flight abort which was demonstrated a total of zero times.  Oh, right, they relied on the (tested once) pad abort and computer modeling.  You have heard of computer modeling, haven't you?  I understand that parachute validation, not being done before the invention of computers, does in fact use computer modeling as well as physical tests to validate the model.

Herb was right, and you're wrong.  You're not educated to weigh in on whether 30 tests were sufficient or not.  Please give it a rest.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: alugobi on 11/11/2021 07:47 pm
They went ahead and launched the next crew.  Concern over.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: abaddon on 11/11/2021 07:48 pm
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.  I gave an example - Shuttle foam liberation caused less-than-catastrophic damage 112 times, and catastrophic damage on the 113th time.  This isn't about parachutes, it's about the idea that running a small number of tests is sufficient to demonstrate safety - it's not.  It's a part of the process that could be used to demonstrate safety.

Admittedly a bit off topic, but I agree, and I wish we get to the day where we *can* run the test 200 times before putting people on it.
Ironically, given all the of the lamenting by some of these same folks about how unsafe Starship is going to be, Starship is likely going to be the first vehicle that will approach that amount of testing before flight with humans on board.  Starship is firmly off-topic for this thread, so I will leave it at that.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: kevinof on 11/11/2021 07:55 pm
Right so let's test Starliner and Orion also with 200 launches before we are happy to have crew on them.

Would never work and that's why they do a limited (if 30 is limited) tests and model the hell out of it.

They way I look at it is who has the most to lose (apart from the crew) in the event of an accident? It would be Spacex and the public and politicians would crush them.

Doubt they would ever fly if they were not 100% confident in their vehicle.
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.  I gave an example - Shuttle foam liberation caused less-than-catastrophic damage 112 times, and catastrophic damage on the 113th time.  This isn't about parachutes, it's about the idea that running a small number of tests is sufficient to demonstrate safety - it's not.  It's a part of the process that could be used to demonstrate safety.

Admittedly a bit off topic, but I agree, and I wish we get to the day where we *can* run the test 200 times before putting people on it. Personally I think it's not even sufficiently safe to rely on processes (there is literally no way you can mathematically link a process to a safety reduction - it's really still a guess that doing it one way can improve safety), even though they can improve your odds that your safety factors what you think it is. Best way to know your failure rate in 200 launches is to launch 200 times.

For what it's worth, at least those 30 times weren't with humans at risk. Wish they did more of course. In fact I wish they could've launched Crew Dragon 200 times with dummies before putting humans on board, but I know that's not practical.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: soltasto on 11/11/2021 08:25 pm
The issue is known, but the root cause does not appear not be entirely under control, which is what's being argued. In fact, you say the non-deterministic cause is the capsule's wake flow, while the very tweet you quote (by an biased party, being SpaceX's former director) states it's understood to be a consequence of parachute crowding, not of turbulence directly.

Not being an expert on this, I decided to have a shallow look at what we're talking about here. Turns out that the "lead-lag" term he employs is actually a generic one referring to "undesirable frequency responses" (as per Wikipedia's definition), which has a whole field of "compensators" to mitigate them. In fact, if you google "lead lag parachute" you get some papers such as this one: https://airborne-sys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/aiaa-1999-1700_evolution_of_the_ringsail.pdf (https://airborne-sys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/aiaa-1999-1700_evolution_of_the_ringsail.pdf) or this one from old-friend Kistler https://airborne-sys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/aiaa-1999-1707_design_and_testing_of_the.pdf (https://airborne-sys.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/aiaa-1999-1707_design_and_testing_of_the.pdf) that talk about many efforts to minimize lead-lag effects, as a variable you can't *null out* but definitely *can control*.

The comparison with car tyres is not really handsome, since heritage issues in fact prevent them to be as safe as their inherent design would allow, and many people "unnecessarily" die on the road worldwide because of it. Anyway, here we're not talking about the equivalent of a car manufacturer "controlling whether the road is wet or dry", which would translate into variable weather conditions for Dragon causing the parachute problems. An actual equivalent to a car scenario would be the acceptance of a significantly reduced factor of safety in braking action depending on a relatively frequent sloshing pattern of the brake fluid, which is known, classed as "in family" and not acted upon because it won't lead to a crash during a few hours of test driving - while summarily ruling out infrequent jamming of the other brakes because of possible one-in-a-thousand-times interactions.

I said that the capsule's wake flow is what decides whether the normal full deployment of all the 4 chutes occurs or if the delayed deployment of one of the chutes due to crowding occurs. Whether the crowding effect occurs or not is not due to a defect (bad production and QA) or even due to margins in the system not being tight enough (engineering issue) but it occurs or not depending on external variables. You can't control if all parachutes get the same exact amount of airflow or not in any moment in time.
This being said, it was discovered during testing (both due to natural occurrence of this behavior and by inducing this effect artificially by lagging a chute) that the delayed chute, as long as it isn't damaged, will deploy anyways within safe margins. If it is damaged that is a different issue anyways as it would fail on a normal deployment too, so it is irrelevant.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Herb Schaltegger on 11/11/2021 09:08 pm
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.

Then what about 30 tests + Demo 1 + Demo 2 + Crew 1 + Inspiration 4? Is that enough? Is 50 tests enough? 100? 1,000? You are not an expert and you do not know. Systems engineering is all about statistical analysis of entire systems BY EXPERTS. Which you already admit not to be.

This level of concern-trolling is unbecoming.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/11/2021 09:51 pm
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.

Then what about 30 tests + Demo 1 + Demo 2 + Crew 1 + Inspiration 4? Is that enough? Is 50 tests enough? 100? 1,000?

As I said, no.

Quote
You are not an expert and you do not know. Systems engineering is all about statistical analysis of entire systems BY EXPERTS.

Which is both what I said and the point I was making.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: su27k on 11/12/2021 12:16 am
Quote
but rather to point out that when something happens that's not as-planned,
Or not as expected, we're accustomed to NASA hunkering down, putting everything on hold, and paralyzing by analyzing.

What a happy surprise that, in the current case, they didn't overreact, but came right out and said that it's been modeled and seen before and no big deal, let's launch the next one.

Which is what they said about seal burn through and foam liberation as well.

Right so instead of a FUD post why don't you impart your wisdom and let us all know what they should be doing?  They have done 30 tests so is it more testing that (in your opinion) should be done? if so how many tests are needed? 40, 50 or maybe 100 tests? Love to know what your magic number is?

Or maybe you think Dragon isn't safe at all. So, in your opinion, should it be grounded? And if so then what? A new magic chute design that doesn't behave this way. Again love to know of your wisdom on this.

FUD posts are easy. Coming up with solutions or real fixes are hard.

I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix. 
Since you are not a parachute expert, it's also not your job to decide that any fix is needed.  :)

I'm not deciding a fix is needed.  I am of the opinion that an investigation and thorough review is needed precisely for the reason that Wayne Hale said.

Wayne Hale gave no such reason, and he certainly did NOT suggest "an investigation and thorough review is needed", and he did NOT object to any of the actions NASA or SpaceX is taking. What he's objecting to is using the word "in family" to describe the event (even though Steve Stich didn't use this word exactly, just something similar).

He gave this space review article (https://www.thespacereview.com/article/3842/1) as the reason for this objection, if you actually read the article it's pretty clear that the objection to the word "in family" is because it has double and opposite meaning which could cause confusion:

Quote
In some cases, “in family” meant that data, or an observed result or event, was within a predicted range. But for other things, “in family” meant that an observed result or event may have been outside of a predicted range, but was still acceptable from a safety standpoint.

Wayne Hale's tweet does not support any of the arguments you're making, you're in fact missing his point entirely.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/12/2021 12:20 am
Wayne Hale's tweet does not support any of the arguments you're making, you're in fact missing his point entirely.

I disagree.  Look up "discrepant behavior" and see if you think he would do nothing about it.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: su27k on 11/12/2021 12:22 am
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.  I gave an example - Shuttle foam liberation caused less-than-catastrophic damage 112 times, and catastrophic damage on the 113th time.  This isn't about parachutes, it's about the idea that running a small number of tests is sufficient to demonstrate safety - it's not.  It's a part of the process that could be used to demonstrate safety.

Well duh, so what you're arguing exactly? That they didn't go through the process to demonstrate safety? What's your evidence that they didn't go through this process?

I propose SpaceX and NASA HAS gone through the process (which includes the 30 tests) and HAS demonstrated safety of the parachute system. Literally nobody is questioning this assertion except you and another non-expert guy on this forum.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: su27k on 11/12/2021 12:25 am
Wayne Hale's tweet does not support any of the arguments you're making, you're in fact missing his point entirely.

I disagree.  Look up "discrepant behavior" and see if you think he would do nothing about it.

People already explained to him it's not "discrepant behavior", he's not an expert on parachutes, he wouldn't know whether this is "discrepant behavior" or not, that would be up to the parachute experts. And his later tweets show he's satisfied with the explanation:

https://twitter.com/waynehale/status/1458611367552950272
Quote
One of the principles for High Reliability Organizations is Reluctance to Simplify. Today - on Twitter at least - there was a rich discussion delving into parachutes, testing, redundancy, etc. So we avoided the simplistic and ambiguous ‘in family’ characterization. So - Q. E. D.

https://twitter.com/waynehale/status/1458634083391713287
Quote
My thanks to @DutchSatellites @Free_Space aCHA and others who contributed so richly to the parachute discussion today. We are all smarter due to what you all shared!

Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: DigitalMan on 11/12/2021 03:08 am
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.

Then what about 30 tests + Demo 1 + Demo 2 + Crew 1 + Inspiration 4? Is that enough? Is 50 tests enough? 100? 1,000? You are not an expert and you do not know. Systems engineering is all about statistical analysis of entire systems BY EXPERTS. Which you already admit not to be.

This level of concern-trolling is unbecoming.

Where did the 30 tests number come from? I thought they had done more than that. I think it was 30 tests for the mark 2 parachutes, (or 1 and 2?), and more than 20 additional for the mark 3 parachutes.

So, more than 50, some of which were tests to failure to determine margins.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: eeergo on 11/12/2021 01:21 pm
I propose SpaceX and NASA HAS gone through the process (which includes the 30 tests) and HAS demonstrated safety of the parachute system. Literally nobody is questioning this assertion except you and another non-expert guy on this forum.

[...]

[Mr Wayne Hale]'s not an expert on parachutes, he wouldn't know whether this is "discrepant behavior" or not, that would be up to the parachute experts.

Just dropping in this bitter choir-preaching exchange (as usual when any comment about any of Musk's ventures is anything else than adulatory) to point out, since I am being referred to as "another non-expert guy" by your "inappelable highness", that I am indeed a S/C systems engineer in the industry. Not that my ego needs acknowledging by your takes, and I'm actually flattered we fall in the same category as Mr Hale in your sweeping characterizations of everyone who doesn't agree with your (very much non-expert) opinion - but your appeal to expertise in this occasion is very telling when you so openly dismissed expert studies in other topics (to the point of being moderated out).

Anyway, I'm out of here. Y'all are very welcome to think everything is completeley fine and no minimal thought should be given to a thorough review, let alone a design effort to avoid crowding in parachutes.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/12/2021 01:58 pm
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.  I gave an example - Shuttle foam liberation caused less-than-catastrophic damage 112 times, and catastrophic damage on the 113th time.  This isn't about parachutes, it's about the idea that running a small number of tests is sufficient to demonstrate safety - it's not.  It's a part of the process that could be used to demonstrate safety.

Well duh, so what you're arguing exactly? That they didn't go through the process to demonstrate safety? What's your evidence that they didn't go through this process?

I know they didn't in the 2 days between the parachute problem and the Crew-3 launch.

Quote
I propose SpaceX and NASA HAS gone through the process (which includes the 30 tests) and HAS demonstrated safety of the parachute system. Literally nobody is questioning this assertion except you and another non-expert guy on this forum.

What evidence do you have that they did?  To my knowledge, they didn't release any evidence of having done this.  I don't know that they didn't anymore than you do know that they did.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vettedrmr on 11/12/2021 03:23 pm
Can we bring this topic (chute anomaly) to a close?  NASA and SpaceX are the responsible parties, they reviewed the data and chose to launch Crew 3.  I assume they know more than we do.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: mn on 11/12/2021 03:33 pm
Can we bring this topic (chute anomaly) to a close?  NASA and SpaceX are the responsible parties, they reviewed the data and chose to launch Crew 3.  I assume they know more than we do.

The entire point of the argument is that history shows that NASA doesn't always know more and doesn't always reach the right conclusion.

Just to say that NASA decided and therefore it must be right is definitely not the right answer.

(Doesn't mean I think they are wrong in this case, but the question is 100% fair to discuss regardless of NASA's decision)

But yes I agree the discussion can be closed because we are just going in circles, everyone has already said what they have to say.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: su27k on 11/13/2021 04:01 am
I propose SpaceX and NASA HAS gone through the process (which includes the 30 tests) and HAS demonstrated safety of the parachute system. Literally nobody is questioning this assertion except you and another non-expert guy on this forum.

[...]

[Mr Wayne Hale]'s not an expert on parachutes, he wouldn't know whether this is "discrepant behavior" or not, that would be up to the parachute experts.

Just dropping in this bitter choir-preaching exchange (as usual when any comment about any of Musk's ventures is anything else than adulatory) to point out, since I am being referred to as "another non-expert guy" by your "inappelable highness", that I am indeed a S/C systems engineer in the industry. Not that my ego needs acknowledging by your takes, and I'm actually flattered we fall in the same category as Mr Hale in your sweeping characterizations of everyone who doesn't agree with your (very much non-expert) opinion - but your appeal to expertise in this occasion is very telling when you so openly dismissed expert studies in other topics (to the point of being moderated out).

I'm not the guy asking for parachute expert, that was Lee Jay. And you being S/C systems engineer doesn't give you the credential needed to diagnose on parachute issues, in this particular case you're no different from any other non-expert.

And Mr. Hale's later tweets showed why he's a true professional who're only interested in fact finding (which was accomplished through the discussion on twitter), unlike some here who will jump at any chance to attack SpaceX while blatantly ignoring huge safety issues from authoritarian countries like Russia.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: su27k on 11/13/2021 04:19 am
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.  I gave an example - Shuttle foam liberation caused less-than-catastrophic damage 112 times, and catastrophic damage on the 113th time.  This isn't about parachutes, it's about the idea that running a small number of tests is sufficient to demonstrate safety - it's not.  It's a part of the process that could be used to demonstrate safety.

Well duh, so what you're arguing exactly? That they didn't go through the process to demonstrate safety? What's your evidence that they didn't go through this process?

I know they didn't in the 2 days between the parachute problem and the Crew-3 launch.

Quote
I propose SpaceX and NASA HAS gone through the process (which includes the 30 tests) and HAS demonstrated safety of the parachute system. Literally nobody is questioning this assertion except you and another non-expert guy on this forum.

What evidence do you have that they did?  To my knowledge, they didn't release any evidence of having done this.  I don't know that they didn't anymore than you do know that they did.

That's the point, there is NO problem with the parachute. The 2 days are not for determining whether this behavior is problematic, that determination was done at least a year ago, before NASA signed the certification for operational missions. The 2 days is used to check the data to make sure they're in the expected range, and check the hardware to make sure they're in expected condition.

They've seen this behavior in testing, for NASA to sign off the certification a year ago means they (and SpaceX) has already determined this behavior is not a safety concern before that, otherwise they wouldn't allow Dragon to start operational missions.

As for the last question, I'm not sure what exactly you're asking. You're saying NASA and SpaceX didn't do the necessary work to certify Crew Dragon for operation a year ago? That's a pretty bold claim, in fact I have never seen anybody (including enemies of SpaceX) raised this concern, so that's all the evidence I need. But to be more specific, my evidence is:
1. I trust NASA and SpaceX has done their homework
2. I trust organizations with oversight responsibilities over NASA, such as ASAP and IG, has done their job and would raise alarm if they see anything problematic, just like ASAP has done in the past when they disclosed OFT-1's 2nd anomaly in orbit.
3. SpaceX has plenty of enemies in the industry (see leaked ULA lobby emails and Boeing funded smear campaign against Crew Dragon in space media) and in congress (see how the parachute test failure was disclosed in a congressional hearing), if NASA didn't dot all the i's and cross all the t's, I expect this will be used against SpaceX long before today.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lee Jay on 11/13/2021 04:38 am
I'm not a parachute expert so it's not my job to come up with a fix.  However, just being successful on 30 tests is not sufficient.

Apparently you’re not an expert in irony either.

You’re admittedly not an expert, yet claim that 30 tests is not sufficient. These two statements are logically incompatible.

No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.  I gave an example - Shuttle foam liberation caused less-than-catastrophic damage 112 times, and catastrophic damage on the 113th time.  This isn't about parachutes, it's about the idea that running a small number of tests is sufficient to demonstrate safety - it's not.  It's a part of the process that could be used to demonstrate safety.

Well duh, so what you're arguing exactly? That they didn't go through the process to demonstrate safety? What's your evidence that they didn't go through this process?

I know they didn't in the 2 days between the parachute problem and the Crew-3 launch.

Quote
I propose SpaceX and NASA HAS gone through the process (which includes the 30 tests) and HAS demonstrated safety of the parachute system. Literally nobody is questioning this assertion except you and another non-expert guy on this forum.

What evidence do you have that they did?  To my knowledge, they didn't release any evidence of having done this.  I don't know that they didn't anymore than you do know that they did.

That's the point, there is NO problem with the parachute.

How do you know that??

Quote
The 2 days are not for determining whether this behavior is problematic, that determination was done at least a year ago, before NASA signed the certification for operational missions.

As far as I can tell, that's an assumption you are making, not a fact you can demonstrate.

Quote
1. I trust NASA and SpaceX has done their homework
2. I trust organizations with oversight responsibilities over NASA, such as ASAP and IG, has done their job and would raise alarm if they see anything problematic, just like ASAP has done in the past when they disclosed OFT-1's 2nd anomaly in orbit.

I don't and neither should anyone else.  You've heard of "trust but verify?"  I accept evidence. I don't believe anyone or anything.

If this chute anomaly was expected and accounted for in the design of the system, then I haven't seen the evidence that that was the case.  That the system was certified is not evidence that this behavior was expected and accepted.  That it was accepted is not evidence that it's safe.

Learn from the past - normalization of deviance is deadly.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: su27k on 11/13/2021 05:00 am
No they aren't.  The point is, showing that something (anything) works properly 30 times in a row is not sufficient to determine that it will work properly every time.  I gave an example - Shuttle foam liberation caused less-than-catastrophic damage 112 times, and catastrophic damage on the 113th time.  This isn't about parachutes, it's about the idea that running a small number of tests is sufficient to demonstrate safety - it's not.  It's a part of the process that could be used to demonstrate safety.

Well duh, so what you're arguing exactly? That they didn't go through the process to demonstrate safety? What's your evidence that they didn't go through this process?

I know they didn't in the 2 days between the parachute problem and the Crew-3 launch.

Quote
I propose SpaceX and NASA HAS gone through the process (which includes the 30 tests) and HAS demonstrated safety of the parachute system. Literally nobody is questioning this assertion except you and another non-expert guy on this forum.

What evidence do you have that they did?  To my knowledge, they didn't release any evidence of having done this.  I don't know that they didn't anymore than you do know that they did.

That's the point, there is NO problem with the parachute.

How do you know that??

They said so during the pre-launch press conference.


Quote
Quote
The 2 days are not for determining whether this behavior is problematic, that determination was done at least a year ago, before NASA signed the certification for operational missions.

As far as I can tell, that's an assumption you are making, not a fact you can demonstrate.

Not an assumption, again, they clarified this during the pre-launch press conference.


Quote
Quote
1. I trust NASA and SpaceX has done their homework
2. I trust organizations with oversight responsibilities over NASA, such as ASAP and IG, has done their job and would raise alarm if they see anything problematic, just like ASAP has done in the past when they disclosed OFT-1's 2nd anomaly in orbit.

I don't and neither should anyone else.  You've heard of "trust but verify?"  I accept evidence. I don't believe anyone or anything.

If this chute anomaly was expected and accounted for in the design of the system, then I haven't seen the evidence that that was the case.  That the system was certified is not evidence that this behavior was expected and accepted.  That it was accepted is not evidence that it's safe.

Learn from the past - normalization of deviance is deadly.

That's BS, you have to trust without verify pretty much everything in your life just to get by, you can't verify your food/water won't poison you or your computer won't electrocute you or your car's brake won't cease to function on the highway.

What verification do you have that the Russians have fixed the problem causing the abort on MS-10? What verification do you have that the Russians have fixed the problem with the hole in MS-09? What verification do you have that the next Russian module wouldn't take ISS for another spin? What verification do you have that Arianespace has fixed the Ariane 5 fairing vibration issue? What verification do you have that ULA has fixed the RL-10 nozzle vibration issue?
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 11/25/2021 09:32 am
https://twitter.com/ShuttleAlmanac/status/1463766578911010822
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: space_19771999 on 11/28/2021 10:20 pm
Here is the complete set.
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: space_19771999 on 11/28/2021 10:21 pm
Title: Re: SpaceX F9 / Crew Dragon : Crew-2 : 22 April 2021 - DISCUSSION
Post by: SMS on 12/19/2021 11:04 am
More ISS photos from SpaceX Crew-2 (November 8, 2021):