Quote from: Danderman on 10/20/2018 12:03 amLet’s say you were starting up a new company to prospect for ores on asteroids. How could you make revenue in the near term?If discoveries of ores on asteroids could be protected, and such claims were transferable similar to patents, then we might see an industry of prospecting firms.The undesirable effect of this would be that the required investments for actually extracting the minerals would go up, as you have to pay the prospecting firms who can find and claim valuable locations far faster than extraction activities can be set up.
Let’s say you were starting up a new company to prospect for ores on asteroids. How could you make revenue in the near term?If discoveries of ores on asteroids could be protected, and such claims were transferable similar to patents, then we might see an industry of prospecting firms.
Quote from: high road on 10/20/2018 11:28 amQuote from: Danderman on 10/20/2018 12:03 amLet’s say you were starting up a new company to prospect for ores on asteroids. How could you make revenue in the near term?If discoveries of ores on asteroids could be protected, and such claims were transferable similar to patents, then we might see an industry of prospecting firms.The undesirable effect of this would be that the required investments for actually extracting the minerals would go up, as you have to pay the prospecting firms who can find and claim valuable locations far faster than extraction activities can be set up.On the other hand, there is an economic benefit to knowing for sure there are resources to be found and where they are. For this reason mining patents may actually accelerate resource extraction because it removes some of the risk.
I am discussing an intellectual property rights regime that allows companies that prospect for asteroidal minerals to sell their claims.For people who don't know much about running a business, it's easy to talk about mining Mars and selling the ores back on Earth as a business plan. But, in the Real World, people have to have money to live on. Investors want to see some return on their investment in their lifetime. So, finding a near term source of revenue is important for space prospecting companies.
Quote from: Danderman on 10/20/2018 12:04 amActually, there is a public benefit from knowing where mineral resources are among the asteroids.There's a benefit to building airports, too. But not before the airplane was invented. Building airports before 1903 would not have been a good use of resources. Better to wait for the airplane to be invented and be ready to use the airport.It's inefficient to use resources to find the mineral resources of asteroids significantly before that information can be put to use.
Actually, there is a public benefit from knowing where mineral resources are among the asteroids.
Quote from: billh on 10/21/2018 08:07 pmQuote from: high road on 10/20/2018 11:28 amQuote from: Danderman on 10/20/2018 12:03 amLet’s say you were starting up a new company to prospect for ores on asteroids. How could you make revenue in the near term?If discoveries of ores on asteroids could be protected, and such claims were transferable similar to patents, then we might see an industry of prospecting firms.The undesirable effect of this would be that the required investments for actually extracting the minerals would go up, as you have to pay the prospecting firms who can find and claim valuable locations far faster than extraction activities can be set up.On the other hand, there is an economic benefit to knowing for sure there are resources to be found and where they are. For this reason mining patents may actually accelerate resource extraction because it removes some of the risk.Bingo.A small amount of dollars could unlock the location of valuable ores in space. This knowledge could spur the Big Guys to get into the space mining business.
https://twitter.com/PlanetaryRsrcs/status/1057626101776834560
“Ethereum smart contract functionality is a natural solution for private-ordering and commerce in space—the only domain of human activity not ordered around territorial sovereignty—in which a diverse range of actors from a growing number of countries must coordinate and transact,” said Israel.
Blockchain venture production studio those 4 words don't make a lot of sense strung together like that.
I smell an ICO (or perhaps an exit scam on space angels/VC crowd?)
Quote from: Danderman on 10/17/2018 05:08 amI am discussing an intellectual property rights regime that allows companies that prospect for asteroidal minerals to sell their claims.For people who don't know much about running a business, it's easy to talk about mining Mars and selling the ores back on Earth as a business plan. But, in the Real World, people have to have money to live on. Investors want to see some return on their investment in their lifetime. So, finding a near term source of revenue is important for space prospecting companies.How would such claims be made? I can give some spectroscopal "evidence" that I found borax on Vesta and therefore the Bad Astra Mineral Foundation claims mining rights on Vesta (which will soon have B.A.M.F. burned into its surface by orbital laser, thank you) , but if someone else beats me to it I'm not going to really be able to defend that claim. Nor will I really be able to determine the mass removed from "my" rock to understand the value thereof to sue in some hypothetical claim.If it comes down to the IP that determines those resources, the only real solution is to keep the information as private as one can, get the goods as quickly as possible. A gentleman's agreement between any major players might be the best that could be hoped for, and that might be enough, as arming drones and standing armies of probably useless lawyers would just eat into the profits. There's enough out there for Everyone and will be for awhile.
Quote from: ChrisWilson68 on 10/20/2018 08:28 pmQuote from: Danderman on 10/20/2018 12:04 amActually, there is a public benefit from knowing where mineral resources are among the asteroids.There's a benefit to building airports, too. But not before the airplane was invented. Building airports before 1903 would not have been a good use of resources. Better to wait for the airplane to be invented and be ready to use the airport.It's inefficient to use resources to find the mineral resources of asteroids significantly before that information can be put to use.There are some really good, boring financial reasons why that kind of venture doesn't happen. Unless they are spending a private fortune (thanks, Elon! thanks, Jeff!), investors tend to want their money back, with interest. Compared to rocket science, it's pretty simple:Expected-return = (1 + risk-free-rate + risk-premium) ^ yearsRisk-free-rate is what you could make putting the money into something like US government or AAA rated private bonds.Risk-premium is where the fun happens. How much more are you going to ask in return for the chance that the whole thing goes south, and you get little or no money back?Years is a best guess of how long it'll take to receive your money and interest back.When you're talking decades for a return, not only does that 'years' exponential do the compounding interest thing on you, but Risk-premium balloons, because of all the technical, government and business risks associated with having a lot of contingencies over time.PR is a classic example of the hazards. It's not comparable to, say, a new gold mining venture, because there the technology, logistics and markets are pretty well understood, though risky in themselves. It's more like betting on a gold mine in Utah, in 1803, before there was a government, any transportation network, or the technology to do mass mineral extraction and refining. Not. Gonna. Happen. The risk has to be taken in smaller steps.And, yes, I was involved in venture capital in a prior life.
Quote from: toren on 10/23/2018 05:00 pmQuote from: ChrisWilson68 on 10/20/2018 08:28 pmQuote from: Danderman on 10/20/2018 12:04 amActually, there is a public benefit from knowing where mineral resources are among the asteroids.There's a benefit to building airports, too. But not before the airplane was invented. Building airports before 1903 would not have been a good use of resources. Better to wait for the airplane to be invented and be ready to use the airport.It's inefficient to use resources to find the mineral resources of asteroids significantly before that information can be put to use.There are some really good, boring financial reasons why that kind of venture doesn't happen. Unless they are spending a private fortune (thanks, Elon! thanks, Jeff!), investors tend to want their money back, with interest. Compared to rocket science, it's pretty simple:Expected-return = (1 + risk-free-rate + risk-premium) ^ yearsRisk-free-rate is what you could make putting the money into something like US government or AAA rated private bonds.Risk-premium is where the fun happens. How much more are you going to ask in return for the chance that the whole thing goes south, and you get little or no money back?Years is a best guess of how long it'll take to receive your money and interest back.When you're talking decades for a return, not only does that 'years' exponential do the compounding interest thing on you, but Risk-premium balloons, because of all the technical, government and business risks associated with having a lot of contingencies over time.PR is a classic example of the hazards. It's not comparable to, say, a new gold mining venture, because there the technology, logistics and markets are pretty well understood, though risky in themselves. It's more like betting on a gold mine in Utah, in 1803, before there was a government, any transportation network, or the technology to do mass mineral extraction and refining. Not. Gonna. Happen. The risk has to be taken in smaller steps.And, yes, I was involved in venture capital in a prior life.This is the precise reason for mining patents - to allow prospectors to get to revenue much sooner than if they have to wait for ore to be returned to Earth.
Quote from: Asteroza on 11/01/2018 12:14 amI smell an ICO (or perhaps an exit scam on space angels/VC crowd?)Explain further?