Author Topic: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC  (Read 37024 times)

Offline John Alan

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #60 on: 08/05/2016 09:51 PM »
I guess what they really need at the Cape is a taller building to store and refurbish S1's in...
5 rocket lanes wide or so... same as building at 39... just much taller...
Tall enough with overhead traveling cranes to clear an S1 stood up vertically plus say 30ft...
Lined on both sides with walk thru fixed bases that stages can be stored vertically on securely...
Support areas, storage areas, etc behind bases and on the other side of the main walls both sides...
Catwalks up top both sides to assist with installing/removing beanie caps as needed...
Catwalks on the bases to secure and unsecure stages... elevator at far end to reach top or bottom catwalks...
One big end door with two lanes used for road trucks bringing in new or taking away used...
Also used to load and unload stages from this new FTS or any variations that follow...
An open area to stand up or lay stages down using two of many overhead cranes...
Rest is shop area to do refurb and swap out components if needed...

I can picture this shot... taken from the far end top catwalk just off the elevator...
50 spaces for 50 stages (25 a side) and about 1/2 in use... new, refurbs, and sooty ones...
Semi truck backing in a stage from Tx while RTS parked next to it is ready to load a refurb going to 40 for reuse...
Several stages laid down on rotary fixtures being worked on in the lower foreground...
And in the center bay.. a refurb was just pulled from along the wall and is starting to be turned to lay it down on the FTS...

 8)

Why vertical?  Just keep them horizontal until launch. 
The building is cheaper. 

Doesn't this photo say it all. 
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40857.msg1566313#msg1566313
Just a couple of manlifts and access stands are all that is needed.
Bring in one end, work on them and roll them out the other end and take them to the HIF at the pad.

And it could be done in multiple buildings, Spacex could use any unused buildings at the Cape.  After all, there isn't just one hangar at an airport for all the planes.

And if they have 50 stages, then something must be wrong with the reuse process.

My experience with farm pole barns and industrial steel frame buildings is the roof and floor is the largest cost.
Grain bins and silos same story... Go smaller and up is the cheapest volume to put up...
As you could store a S1 in a 20 ft square on the floor standing vertically... or 400 sq ft...
Laying down is what... 160 x 20 ft square... or 3200 sq ft... (I'm assuming S1 is 147ft tall - IIRC)
In the space of one S1 laying down... you can store 8 stages standing up along a wall...

Your photo... exactly my starting point... just make the building with a 180+ft high bay height...
Take the side two stages out and replace each one with 8 racks to stand stages up vertically... same space..
Take the other two stages shown out and make that two bays to back two trucks or the RTS in... to load or unload...
In that area shown in that camera frame... they can store 16 stages and handle two wide vehicles at once,,,
Call that the front bay... First of 3 bays in this 500 ft long whatever it is wide and 200+ft high with roof tall structure

Middle bay... 16 more racks along the walls... Middle area to lay down and work on 2 stages.
Back bay... no storage racks... main refurb area... looks just like that but 4 stages being worked on laying down.

So in one building...
Store 32 stages... not have to move any to get to a certain one you need out...
Work on up to 6 stages at once in a manner just like you described and they do now...

In fact.. to add to the original idea...
Build this refurb building on the west side of LC13 (LZ-1)
Truck doors facing inland toward the road.. Front bay...
Back work bay has another bay with a tall door facing toward the landing pads and the Ocean...
Just inside the door centered is a base to hold a rocket... the transfer base...
Outside is a slab with three hard stands in the ground like at the port...
Launch a FH and RTLS all three cores... no sweat...
Use the crawler crane to move all three stages from the pads to the three hardstands...
Defuel and make safe...
Use same crane to swing each stage inside to the transfer base...
Use the overhead crane to move each stage to a storage rack...
Close door and resume normal activities...  :)

Ok... 50 was too many...  :-[
But I always say in grain bins and farm buildings... room for more is always good... plan for worst case...

 8)   ;)
« Last Edit: 08/05/2016 09:58 PM by John Alan »

Offline Hobbes-22

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #61 on: 08/05/2016 10:17 PM »
Processing a stage while vertical is more complex, a man lift that reaches 50 m is far more expensive and time-consuming to run than one that reaches 5 m (which would be more than enough to access the highest point of a horizontal stage).
While adding height to a building is cheap, a building rated for a gantry crane that can lift 30 tons and has rails at 50+m up is not cheap.

Offline John Alan

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #62 on: 08/05/2016 11:20 PM »
Again... I will attempt to clarify my postings above for others...  >:(

All work is to be done to stages with them LAYING DOWN like they do now...
Stages NOT being worked on... are stood back up and PARKED on a open storage stand along the wall...

I never said work was to be done on stages while vertical... did I?
The top catwalk is just for someone to go up and spot and assist in installing/removing a beanie cap...
The lower catwalks around and along the storage stands are to reach the hold down latches safely...
NO need for a man lift higher then 20 ft in this building...

My thinking is get it all under one roof... workspace and storage
I can see them getting done with a stage and it's pouring rain outside...  :P
Or "I need the one in the back behind 3 other stages stored over in that hanger"...  ::)

I see separate gantry cranes used at work daily...they use two to pick up and turn large items...
Our largest are 100 ton beasts... 3 of em... 'A' bay is 100ft wide and 1000+ ft long...
All 3 are Compounds with two separate movable gantry hooks on each one...
In theory... 'A' bay could pick up a 1000 ft long 50 ft across object in the middle and at both ends...
Then roll it over 180 degrees with each lift...  :o

There are 100+ more smaller ones... 2 to 40 ton... spread across the 1,000,000+ sq ft building...
Picking up stuff and turning it 90 or 180 degrees is not hard with two gantry cranes...
Standing a rocket up or laying it down inside the building is a simple 90 degree roll maneuver...
Assuming max hook height is taller then the item to be turned...  ;)
« Last Edit: 08/06/2016 12:45 AM by John Alan »

Offline Jim

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #63 on: 08/06/2016 12:43 AM »

Stages NOT being worked on... are stood back up and PARKED on a open storage stand along the wall...

My thinking is get it all under one roof... workspace and storage


Why?  That is just more unnecessary handling (2 extra crane lifts). Just leave them as.
When they are horizontal there is access all the time.

Workspace and storage can be horizontal with no need for catwalks or any upperlevels. 

And 32 is still too many
« Last Edit: 08/06/2016 12:48 AM by Jim »

Offline Jim

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #64 on: 08/06/2016 12:47 AM »

While adding height to a building is cheap, a building rated for a gantry crane that can lift 30 tons and has rails at 50+m up is not cheap.

Add in hurricane rated.

Offline John Alan

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #65 on: 08/06/2016 01:04 AM »
And 32 is still too many

My thinking is total stages for FH and F9 fleet to have on hand for the two pads at the cape...

Lets drop it to 16 storage spots (one bay) and jump to 8 spots (two bays) for refurb then,,,

Two ship sets of in use FH plus room for one new set,,, that 9 cores...
F9... 2 new core spots... 4 working swap spots... always try and have one open spot.. 16 total then

I still think more is better however...  ;)
« Last Edit: 08/06/2016 01:07 AM by John Alan »

Offline guckyfan

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #66 on: 08/06/2016 05:05 AM »
And 32 is still too many

But they will likely accumulate that many before they have convinced their customers of reuse.

Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #67 on: 08/06/2016 07:44 AM »
You have to putt it on the facebook page ! It's brillant !

Offline mfck

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #68 on: 08/06/2016 10:23 AM »
Is it just me or does this thing look a bit overbuilt for F9? First BFR hardware, anybody?

Offline Jarnis

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #69 on: 08/06/2016 12:37 PM »
I think it is just you (and you grossly underestimate the size of the BFR)

Offline AnalogMan

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #70 on: 08/06/2016 01:33 PM »
Is it just me or does this thing look a bit overbuilt for F9? First BFR hardware, anybody?

I added a red circle to match the inner radius of curvature of the blue support ring giving an approximate idea of the size of the booster relative to the transporter.

Offline Hobbes-22

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #71 on: 08/06/2016 02:00 PM »
The transporter is 2.44 m wide at the front, so that diameter looks about right for a F9.

transporter stats


Length 106 Feet 6 Inches

Width 20 Feet at rear, 16 Feet-8 Inches in middle, 8 Feet at front

Height 5 Feet-3 Inches minimum to 7 Feet-3 Inches maximum
Engine    335 H.P. V12, Air Cooled

Wheels 76

Turning Radius 66 Feet

Weight-Empty 167,000 Pounds

Weight-Gross 327,000 Pounds

Speed Unloaded 13 MPH

Max Speed Loaded 5 MPH
« Last Edit: 08/06/2016 02:32 PM by Hobbes-22 »

Offline Kabloona

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #72 on: 08/06/2016 03:07 PM »
Is it just me or does this thing look a bit overbuilt for F9? First BFR hardware, anybody?

It's actually a bit undersized for F9 according to an onsite source on R****t who says the front end of the stage overhangs the transporter.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2016 03:09 PM by Kabloona »

Offline John Alan

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #73 on: 08/06/2016 03:16 PM »
And 32 is still too many

But they will likely accumulate that many before they have convinced their customers of reuse.

Agreed... That was my thinking in giving up twp repair stalls to gain 16 more storage spots...

The overall idea... is have the ability to 'make room' on the floor when needed... but only as needed...
They should only store a stage to make room for another...
And if put up...only take it down when it's needed again...

Is it just me or does this thing look a bit overbuilt for F9? First BFR hardware, anybody?

It's actually a bit undersized for F9 according to an onsite source on R****t who says the front end of the stage overhangs the transporter.

My opinion... the front overhang may be on purpose... time will tell...
« Last Edit: 08/06/2016 03:27 PM by John Alan »

Offline Jim

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #74 on: 08/06/2016 04:07 PM »
Of course, it is on purpose. The front overhang would be the top of the stage.  There is no need to support the stage at the very end.  See the pics of the previous transports.   That nixes your ideas.
« Last Edit: 08/06/2016 04:08 PM by Jim »

Offline mfck

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #75 on: 08/06/2016 04:21 PM »
Is it just me or does this thing look a bit overbuilt for F9? First BFR hardware, anybody?

It's actually a bit undersized for F9 according to an onsite source on R****t who says the front end of the stage overhangs the transporter.

It is not by chance that I made my remark looking at it en face. But yeah, four times the diameter might be too much. We don't really know what length BFR is, afaik

Edit: to clarify, the blue part is obviously F9 sized. I was looking at the white I-beams
« Last Edit: 08/06/2016 04:24 PM by mfck »

Offline vicarofdidley

Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #76 on: 08/06/2016 09:18 PM »
I have changed my mind on the name for the new transporter:

"I can't believe it's not butter"

Online mme

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #77 on: 08/06/2016 09:19 PM »
And 32 is still too many

But they will likely accumulate that many before they have convinced their customers of reuse.
I think people overestimate customer's reluctance to fly on a reused boosters.  The real issue is how long until SpaceX is confident in their qualification and how many more tweaks (if any) are required to improve surviving reentry.

I think at some point soon SpaceX will start disassembling boosters they don't intent to refly.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Okie_Steve

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #78 on: 08/07/2016 01:35 AM »
Was an s1 ever tested to failure in compression? If they start disassembling thing like accordioned engine landed stages it might provide interesting data to crush one before recycling it. Mental image of giant coke can crusher ...

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #79 on: 08/07/2016 03:13 AM »
Mental image of giant coke can crusher ...
Mental image of a giant boot on vertical stage, with a toe tapping ever so gently on the side ...

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