Author Topic: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC  (Read 36318 times)

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2376
  • Canada
  • Liked: 328
  • Likes Given: 537
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #20 on: 08/05/2016 01:38 AM »
Does the new "Falcon Transport" allows the core to be carry with the legs extended? Is there enough ground clearance.

Offline Mike_1179

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 557
  • New Jersey
  • Liked: 226
  • Likes Given: 50
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #21 on: 08/05/2016 01:48 AM »
Does the new "Falcon Transport" allows the core to be carry with the legs extended? Is there enough ground clearance.


Using the pick-up truck for scale, almost certainly not. The overall top of steel is maybe a meter higher than the height of the truck. The side of the core can't be more than 3 meters off the ground.

So post-landing Ops could be:
1. Jack up stage on hold down points
2. Remove legs
3. Use crane to rotate and place on transporter
4. Tow stage on transporter to HIF
5. Use HIF crane to remove from transporter
« Last Edit: 08/05/2016 01:50 AM by Mike_1179 »

Online yokem55

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 530
  • Oregon (Ore-uh-gun dammit)
  • Liked: 303
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #22 on: 08/05/2016 03:45 AM »
Is this just a replacement for the k-mag? Or will it also be able to assist with taking the stage down to horizontal?

Online meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8179
  • N. California
  • Liked: 4419
  • Likes Given: 868
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #23 on: 08/05/2016 03:52 AM »
Does the new "Falcon Transport" allows the core to be carry with the legs extended? Is there enough ground clearance.


Using the pick-up truck for scale, almost certainly not. The overall top of steel is maybe a meter higher than the height of the truck. The side of the core can't be more than 3 meters off the ground.

So post-landing Ops could be:
1. Jack up stage on hold down points
2. Remove legs
3. Use crane to rotate and place on transporter
4. Tow stage on transporter to HIF
5. Use HIF crane to remove from transporter

Agreed.  This doesn't look at first blush like a "derector" - just a carrier.
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline Scylla

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 472
  • Clinton NC, USA
  • Liked: 638
  • Likes Given: 50
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #24 on: 08/05/2016 04:14 AM »
Couple more pics from Stephen C. Smith.
http://spaceksc.blogspot.com/2016/08/on-road-again.html
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Offline nacnud

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2214
  • Liked: 369
  • Likes Given: 177
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #25 on: 08/05/2016 04:31 AM »
There are lots of culture ship names that I think would be fun for this. I like

Not Invented Here
Recent Convert
What Are The Civilian Applications?   
Only Slightly Bent




Offline Space Ghost 1962

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2783
  • Whatcha gonna do when the Ghost zaps you?
  • Liked: 2897
  • Likes Given: 2249
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #26 on: 08/05/2016 04:56 AM »
My favorite Banks title for this is I Said, I've Got A Big Stick.

Works for me!

Oh, and if ULA needs one for Vulcan eventually ... there's always I Blame The Parents  :o

Online guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6652
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1721
  • Likes Given: 1666
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #27 on: 08/05/2016 05:34 AM »
Agreed.  This doesn't look at first blush like a "derector" - just a carrier.

Yes but it looks massive enough to add one later when the landing frequence justifies it.

Online meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8179
  • N. California
  • Liked: 4419
  • Likes Given: 868
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #28 on: 08/05/2016 07:27 AM »
Agreed.  This doesn't look at first blush like a "derector" - just a carrier.

Yes but it looks massive enough to add one later when the landing frequence justifies it.
That would be grand.  The part with the cranes is a bit of a hack...
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline douglas100

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2168
  • Liked: 221
  • Likes Given: 102
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #29 on: 08/05/2016 08:14 AM »
Agreed.  This doesn't look at first blush like a "derector" - just a carrier.

Yes but it looks massive enough to add one later when the landing frequence justifies it.
That would be grand.  The part with the cranes is a bit of a hack...

Someone (Jim, I think) called such a device, simply, a "retriever." Nice and simple, and covers all ops, including rotating the stage horizontal.

Agree about the cranes, although I think we'll see them used for some time yet. After all, that's the way they handle the stage at McGregor.

Another thing which would speed up the flow at the landing pad would be redesigned legs that can be retracted or be quickly removed.  A retriever could be designed to lower the stage with the legs extended but it would need to be designed for considerable ground clearance. Better to deal with them with the vehicle vertical.

So you could imagine a sequence something like this:
1. Retriever approaches the stage with a small platform plate carrying jacks which it places beneath the vehicle,
2. Jacks extend, engage with the hold downs and lift the vehicle clear of the ground,
3. Legs retracted or removed.
4. Strongback on the retriever swings vertical and its clamp engages with the top of the stage.
5. Strongback and base platform rotate the vehicle to horizontal.
6. Go home.

Kind of the reverse of pad erection, really. Of course there would be other safing ops besides the basic handling.
Douglas Clark

Offline Hobbes-22

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
  • Acme Engineering
    • Acme Engineering
  • Liked: 129
  • Likes Given: 81
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #30 on: 08/05/2016 09:00 AM »
Is this just a replacement for the k-mag? Or will it also be able to assist with taking the stage down to horizontal?

The company is called Kamag.

Offline iamlucky13

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1660
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 93
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #31 on: 08/05/2016 09:44 AM »

Other names from Iain Banks that might fit:

Trade Surplus - fitting for a used item
The Ends Of Invention
Screw Loose
Cargo Cult
Prime Mover
Only Slightly Bent - fitting for a used item
Size Isn't Everything
Just Passing Through
Recent Convert    
Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The
Heavy Messing
Fate Amenable To Change - fitting for an item that might otherwise be scrapped
Someone Else's Problem
I Said, I've Got A Big Stick - fitting for Falcon FT's stick-like proportions
Awkward Customer
Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory - Needs to be saved for some future SpaceX creation even more surprising than an ASDS
Now Look What You've Made Me Do
You Naughty Monsters
Don't Try This At Home
You'll Clean That Up Before You Leave fitting for filthy, re-entered stage
Contents May Differ

« Last Edit: 08/05/2016 09:44 AM by iamlucky13 »

Offline flyright

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 135
  • Denver, Colorado
  • Liked: 143
  • Likes Given: 246
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #32 on: 08/05/2016 02:00 PM »

...

So you could imagine a sequence something like this:
1. Retriever approaches the stage with a small platform plate carrying jacks which it places beneath the vehicle,
2. Jacks extend, engage with the hold downs and lift the vehicle clear of the ground,
3. Legs retracted or removed.
4. Strongback on the retriever swings vertical and its clamp engages with the top of the stage.
5. Strongback and base platform rotate the vehicle to horizontal.
6. Go home.

Kind of the reverse of pad erection, really. Of course there would be other safing ops besides the basic handling.

I think prior to this sequence it would still be necessary to have a crane attach the cap and stabilize the stage prior to having the retriever lift it.
Or maybe the retriever could somehow perform the same function as part of step 4. (move step 4 to be step 2)

Offline Alastor

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 263
  • Liked: 137
  • Likes Given: 308
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #33 on: 08/05/2016 02:14 PM »
So you could imagine a sequence something like this:
1. Retriever approaches the stage with a small platform plate carrying jacks which it places beneath the vehicle,
2. Jacks extend, engage with the hold downs and lift the vehicle clear of the ground,
3. Legs retracted or removed.
4. Strongback on the retriever swings vertical and its clamp engages with the top of the stage.
5. Strongback and base platform rotate the vehicle to horizontal.
6. Go home.

Kind of the reverse of pad erection, really. Of course there would be other safing ops besides the basic handling.

Given the weight of the stage and position of the different CoGs, in all likelihood, once you reach step 5 of your list, what is realistically more likely to happen is the retriever going vertical  when you attempt to lower the stage. Then, as a step 6, the new CoG of the stage+retriever assembly being out of the support polygon defined by the jacks, the assembly will topple (provided the stage doesn't magically refuel ant decide to liftoff), and kaboom.

There is one very important thing that all those suggesting the retriever could easily replace the cranes missed : The polygon of support of two cranes working together is huge, and the stage is located right in the middle. To make it possible for the retriever to replace them, you'd need one hell of a counterweight or a hold-down as there certainly is for the erector.

Offline vicarofdidley

Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #34 on: 08/05/2016 02:19 PM »

And please...someone from SpaceX reading this...please give this guy/gal below a golden ticket tour and use his/her name suggestion for the OTS. 

It'll have a name rather than an acronym with SpaceX

How about "Of Course I Won't Drop It"?   ???

Unfortunally...I did drop something...in my keyboard...when I read that name.  :o

I'll happily accept anything SpaceX want to offer me!
Sorry about the keyboard!!  :-\

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32196
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 10843
  • Likes Given: 321
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #35 on: 08/05/2016 02:20 PM »
Agreed.  This doesn't look at first blush like a "derector" - just a carrier.

Yes but it looks massive enough to add one later when the landing frequence justifies it.

It might be too massive.  The frame replaces all the Kamag vehicles in the previous transport method.  There is no way to rotate the existing frame to vertical on the OTS.  Another frame would be required with the appropriate hydraulics.  So take a similar frame and pin it at the end of the existing frame and rotate it vertical.  Add clamps and attached a F9 first stage to it.  If you look at the OTS, it has a "short" wheel base when compared to the stage frame, and it is inboard some distance from the hinge point of the second frame with the F9 S1 clamped to it.  I don't think it would be stable.    There needs to be jacks/outriggers near the hinge point.
The second frame has to be lighter than the existing one for this to work because of loading as shown earlier
« Last Edit: 08/05/2016 02:24 PM by Jim »

Offline Wolfram66

Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #36 on: 08/05/2016 02:47 PM »
It'll have a name rather than an acronym with SpaceX

How about "Of Course I Won't Drop It"?   ???

Other names from Iain Banks that might fit:

Trade Surplus
The Ends Of Invention
Screw Loose
Cargo Cult
Prime Mover
Only Slightly Bent
Size Isn't Everything
Just Passing Through
Recent Convert    
Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The
Heavy Messing
Fate Amenable To Change
Someone Else's Problem
I Said, I've Got A Big Stick
Awkward Customer
Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory
Now Look What You've Made Me Do
You Naughty Monsters
Don't Try This At Home
You'll Clean That Up Before You Leave
Contents May Differ


My tops
Trade Surplus
Prime Mover
Just Passing Through
I Said, I've Got A Big Stick [I like, but a little too much cheek?]

Offline Wolfram66

Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #37 on: 08/05/2016 02:58 PM »
Agreed.  This doesn't look at first blush like a "derector" - just a carrier.

Yes but it looks massive enough to add one later when the landing frequence justifies it.
That would be grand.  The part with the cranes is a bit of a hack...

or is this related to Falcon Heavy assembly and transport. IDK how they will assemble the triple core.
This from the DeltaIVHeavy process

Nasa.Gov


UniverseToday.com


MadeInAlabama.com

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32196
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 10843
  • Likes Given: 321
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #38 on: 08/05/2016 03:20 PM »
Delta IV transporter is the opposite.  It has wheels at both ends and is detectable.  The front end can be used to move upper stages and encapsulated payloads.
« Last Edit: 08/05/2016 03:21 PM by Jim »

Offline Mike_1179

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 557
  • New Jersey
  • Liked: 226
  • Likes Given: 50
Re: Falcon Transport System seen finally at KSC
« Reply #39 on: 08/05/2016 03:22 PM »

or is this related to Falcon Heavy assembly and transport. IDK how they will assemble the triple core.
This from the DeltaIVHeavy process


Based on the width of the HIF, I remember someone saying Falcon Heavy will be assembled on the TE.

1. Bring empty TE into HIF
2. Use HIF crane to lift one cores into TE one at a time
3. Attach cores together
4. Roll TE to pad

And now I've way off topic here.

A relevant question - why did SpaceX need to buy this instead of using what they had done for transporting used stages the last few times? Is it just cheaper than renting the service of a rigger?

Tags: