I see about 10 people max waving placards which might even include family members. I only hope these people never end up working at SpaceX waiting for the time to strike. Better not as more...
Quote from: jak Kennedy on 05/09/2018 07:31 pmI see about 10 people max waving placards which might even include family members. I only hope these people never end up working at SpaceX waiting for the time to strike. Better not as more...If Tesla is any indication of Musk's treatment of workers SpaceX could benefit from a union. And personally knowing a few engineers at SpaceX the overtime abuse of new and young engineers is rampant. For many it's stick with it to get your stock vested and move on to better paying positions in the LA aerospace scene.
Quote from: psionedge on 05/10/2018 08:40 amQuote from: jak Kennedy on 05/09/2018 07:31 pmI see about 10 people max waving placards which might even include family members. I only hope these people never end up working at SpaceX waiting for the time to strike. Better not as more...If Tesla is any indication of Musk's treatment of workers SpaceX could benefit from a union. And personally knowing a few engineers at SpaceX the overtime abuse of new and young engineers is rampant. For many it's stick with it to get your stock vested and move on to better paying positions in the LA aerospace scene.Let's keep in mind that salaried workers (engineers, office staff, etc) typically work under a different set of rules than hourly workers (techs, machinists, etc) in the aerospace business, and elsewhere.It's a given in the aerospace industry that young engineers are going to be expected to work 60 hours per week on a regular basis, and 80+ hrs per week during crunch times. That's just the price you pay for working at a top-tier aerospace company, or even a small start-up.That's different from the situation of unionized aerospace machinists, who work under a totally different wage structure, management structure, and "rules," whether explicit or implicit."Abuse" of young salaried engineers is the expected norm, and they know it when they sign up; "abuse" of hourly machinists is not. ;-)
Hard, challenging work and long hours is not abuse... it is called a profession.
Quote from: AncientU on 05/10/2018 03:27 pmHard, challenging work and long hours is not abuse... it is called a profession.Expecting 80 hour weeks is abusive. When you have to choose between your job and having a family, that's not a profession, that's being a wage slave.
I'm a salaried engineer in the aerospace profession, and I have never been required to work 60 or 80 hour weeks. Not once.
It's really despairing when some people appear to take pride on exploitative work conditions as a status. Reminds me of when I was in college and there were certain students (usually those with worse grades after all was said and done) who took pride on their lack of life outside their academic career, the insane hours they passed in the library or in front of their computers, the many all-nighters they pulled and their "dedication" to their studies. In reality, they ate like crap (which brought its own set of problems pretty swiftly), had no life balance, were miserable, and generally extremely ineffective in their time management, dozing off in the desk for hours, taking lots of "break times" to smoke or take coffee. End result was, barring some special cases, an inferior long-term comprehension of what they worked on, and getting burned after a few such cycles.There always will be crunch times, periods of sacrifice of personal life to professional development, and the need to put all hands on deck to bring forward an enterprise. They can lead to 60 or 80h working weeks or even to sleeping in the office, and most people will live through them.Promoting it as "expected" or "the price to pay" for some perceived prestige though, is just dumb and an insult to hard-won improvements in the treatment of hired professionals. Gross overtime should be totally extraordinary and well-remunerated. Otherwise either your working ways are ineffective and problematic, or the company structure is, and should either hire more people or streamline processes.In any case, let's keep this thread focused on discussing and keeping updates on ULA's strike and its workers' conditions, not general rumblings.
Let's see the data, because spreading anecdotal experience and FUD is easy. On Glassdoor SpaceX has a rating of 4.4, vs ULA's 2.7, OATK's 3.6. Elon Musk has a 97% approval rating vs Tory Bruno's 49%.Not bad for a company apparently run by an exploitative monster. But this is off-topic here.
That isn't "data", it is popularity contest. Results of a cult of personality.
Quote from: AbuSimbel on 05/10/2018 03:41 pmLet's see the data, because spreading anecdotal experience and FUD is easy. On Glassdoor SpaceX has a rating of 4.4, vs ULA's 2.7, OATK's 3.6. Elon Musk has a 97% approval rating vs Tory Bruno's 49%.Not bad for a company apparently run by an exploitative monster. But this is off-topic here. That isn't "data", it is popularity contest. Results of a cult of personality.
Quote from: Jim on 05/11/2018 01:20 pmQuote from: AbuSimbel on 05/10/2018 03:41 pmLet's see the data, because spreading anecdotal experience and FUD is easy. On Glassdoor SpaceX has a rating of 4.4, vs ULA's 2.7, OATK's 3.6. Elon Musk has a 97% approval rating vs Tory Bruno's 49%.Not bad for a company apparently run by an exploitative monster. But this is off-topic here. That isn't "data", it is popularity contest. Results of a cult of personality.In some sciences, opinions are data. Being subjective doesn't make them any less real.
Quote from: Ad_Astra7 on 05/09/2018 01:55 pmThis is unfortunate for both sides. How has SpaceX been able to keep its union happy?What union?
This is unfortunate for both sides. How has SpaceX been able to keep its union happy?