Total Members Voted: 318
This is why I said yes. I think on a regular basis, it doesn’t need to be locked to certain people, but as said, I think on launch days before, during, and some time after some people should have posting roles.(Pointing out the bottom post, not top. Good job Steven)
Yes - But with the caveat that it should only be enabled during launches/events. Not otherwise.
Quote from: Lars-J on 03/30/2021 05:24 pmYes - But with the caveat that it should only be enabled during launches/events. Not otherwise.I agree. People should be allowed to post new information between launches but shouldn't be allowed to argue/theorize on launch day.
I agree. People should be allowed to post new information between launches but shouldn't be allowed to argue/theorize on launch day.
Yes. Several of the people saying no are frequent violators of the updates only rule. Joey D literally just had a post removed a few minutes ago.
The issue is there are LOTs of people who have UPDATES threads on email notification. Very few notify on other threads like discussion threads. Getting pinged constantly as people give their hot takes or nube questions in the updates thread makes notifications more like spam.
How about a simple(?) filter for updates thread. If a post ends with a '?', reject it. Always.
I voted yes and only during live events to L2 Members which helps support the site... Other times are fine and anyone can make a mistake from time to time... You can still post it to the Discussion Thread...Edit to Add:
Yep, if for no other reason than it is probably confusing for the people who post in the updates thread without realising it is wrong (either they didn't check or didn't appreciate the rules). Having your post moved, or having people reply to it in an entirely different thread, probably doesn't make sense if you didn't know you'd posted incorrectly in the first place.And it's also likely to be a bit unnerving when you get shouted at in the forums.
I’d say no, but with some exceptions. It should by default NOT be restricted, but perhaps with some way to turn on restriction temporarily if mods see it’s a big problem.I have accidentally posted in the updates before but I quickly move it over to discussion.
As someone who has been lurking this forum for quite a few years now (I don't really have anything interesting to say, so that probably won't change) I do feel like part of the issue comes down to just how crowded this specific sub-section has become over the few years. There's a ton of threads with extremely similar sounding titles to the point where even I have difficulty keeping track of which thread I'm looking at, everything simply moves too quickly with threads constantly jumping up and down the stack every time you refresh the page. I was going to suggest building some kind of colour coded tagging system to make it easy to see the topic of each thread at a glance (I still think that would be useful) but really a easier solution might be to just use the thread sticky/pinning feature more effectively - What I mean by that is if the most recent Updates & Discussion threads were pinned to the top of the sub forum then they would be fixed into place on the page, becoming fixed points of reference which users would see as distinct from the regular threads that make up this forum - you could have something like:1: Starship SN11 Test Launch Campaign - UPDATES2: SpaceX Boca Chica - Production Updates - MASTER Thread (4)3: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 20 : DiscussionetcBut I'd also make sure that the threads follow the same naming convections as well. I'd also put UPDATES or DISCUSSION in all caps either at the start or end of each thread title, along with the thread no. in a fixed position, for example. So: 1: "SpaceX Boca Chica - Production Updates - MASTER Thread (4)"2: "SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 20 : Discussion"becomes: 1: "SpaceX Boca Chica : Production Master Thread 4 : UPDATES"2: "SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 20 : DISCUSSION"or maybe just: 1: "Starship Production Thread 4 : UPDATES"2: "Starship Prototype Thread 20 : DISCUSSION"Or something of that sort. Any new "official" threads for other topics (Superheavy?) could then follow a similar convention.Regardless I do think a large amount of the offtopic posting comes from just how busy this subforum is and how much threads jump around as a result, you shouldn't really have to dig for the correct thread when the thread in question is supposed to be the official discussion page for example. Currently I don't think the pins aren't really being used particularly well - I mean half the pinned threads right now are locked due to being years out of date.And yeah, as a lurker seeing threads constantly delve into off topic arguments has become very disheartening. Unfortunately as this forum continues to become more and more popular this doesn't seem like something that's going to change any time soon - I can't imagine the traffic when SpaceX eventually get to the point of full production orbital flights. The mods have done a great job keeping the forum relatively under control given the circumstances, but at some point I think some large scale rejuggling of the SpaceX section may need necessary to stop the whole thing spiralling out of the control. Perhaps the Starship sub-section has become so busy it needs to be split into multiple subforums, dare I suggest?Anyway, back to lurking.
Possibly the only limitation I can see is minimum number of posts such as 100 posts or something similar. Many of the people making the mistake are new to the forums and don't fully understand the rules as many other forums do not have these types of posting rules. Veteran posters do occasionally make this mistake also (including myself), but usually remove it as soon as they realize the mistake. It's easy to make this mistake due to the number of threads many of us have open due to the limited scope of threads. But I think a certain amount of experience in the forum is the best way to handle this.Edit: if a new user does have a useful update, they could always post in the discussion area for a veteran or mod to repost in updates.
No - Absolutely notIf we're going to start gate-keeping here, why not just drop the pretence and make the site read-only except to L2 members and verified aerospace professionals?
This forum does have the most strict and "precise" (and numerous) rules I have ever seen for a forum. It's like a condo HOA on steroids.
However, when you factor in the plethora of rules in combination of what is likely MANY new members that join specifically out of SpaceX interest...you are going to need more moderation than usual in the SpaceX forums.
Voted YES.The number of concern-trolling m*rons is becoming absolutely horrendous in launch updates threads.No matter how often you tell them NOT to post their idiotic arm-chair 'analyses' in the updates thread, they still do. It's annoying, it's tiring and worst of all it degrades the quality of this forum.So, for potentially 'exciting' update threads, such as the launch of Starship prototypes, I would very much like to see a limitation on who can post. Preferably a limitation to NSF staff only.
If they really have new info (like found debris or an image different than the dozens already there) they should be able to send it to a mod. No, you don't need to post right this second. What happens if your post is delayed? Does the world stop spinning? What happens if you have to post in the discussion thread? Does the world stop spinning?
Quote from: JimOnMars on 03/30/2021 09:54 pmIf they really have new info (like found debris or an image different than the dozens already there) they should be able to send it to a mod. No, you don't need to post right this second. What happens if your post is delayed? Does the world stop spinning? What happens if you have to post in the discussion thread? Does the world stop spinning?That's ridiculous. Mods don't have nearly enough time to cover the quantity of updates SpaceX generates and posting it in discussion doesn't help anything. IIRC, moving posts is actually a non-trivial PITA
Mods don't have time to comb through the update thread every 30 seconds waiting for a non-update, then go through the hassle to move it. If 100 people send them non-updates for the update thread, they can just dump them into the round file...they don't even have to read them if they don't want to. Easy Peasy.
Which is exactly what we have now. Mods don't have time to comb through the update thread every 30 seconds waiting for a non-update, then go through the hassle to move it....
Quote from: JimOnMars on 03/30/2021 10:10 pmWhich is exactly what we have now. Mods don't have time to comb through the update thread every 30 seconds waiting for a non-update, then go through the hassle to move it....Apparently they do. Or technically there are enough active non-mods reporting posts to mods to take action. It's actually quite remarkable in how fast posts are moderated in this forum.If you restrict who can post in a so-called "update thread" then by definition you will not get some legitimate updates from some folks who have them but are not "experienced enough" to be let into the "update thread club."I am all for making it "harder" to post in an update thread (confirmations followed by immediate temporary ban if you ignore the pop-up confirmations, etc.) That should cut down on incorrect posts while at the same time not discouraging wide participation.
Quote from: Rocket Science on 03/30/2021 06:20 pmI voted yes and only during live events to L2 Members which helps support the site... Other times are fine and anyone can make a mistake from time to time... You can still post it to the Discussion Thread...Edit to Add:That’s just pay to win.....
A single, solid post (containing actual updates) would qualify you for the "update thread club."
Why are the 'No' sayers not complaining that their posts were removed?
Quote from: JimOnMars on 03/30/2021 10:31 pmA single, solid post (containing actual updates) would qualify you for the "update thread club." How does one make a single, solid post to an update thread...if they have not yet made a single solid post to an update thread to "qualify?" And what happens when subsequent to qualification, they make an erroneous post? QuoteWhy are the 'No' sayers not complaining that their posts were removed? Edit: Sorry...I misread your statement..I am modifying my response:.The no sayers are not complaining because we understand the reason for the moderation.But this is not about people not wanting their posts moderated or moved. This is about potentially taking action (banning some class of member) that can discourage / prevent actual quality posts from being made. It's a trade-off worth discussion for sure. But you must understand that preventing a "class" of users from posting in a thread is in fact a trade-off: you may increase the signal to noise ratio...but you might also decrease the absolute signal.
I just used report to mod because this ENTIRE poll/thread is in the wrong place to begin with. It has nothing to do with SpaceX or SS. Anyone see the irony here?
I voted noEvery so often a newbie like Nomad shows up. A prescribed system of special, blessed update people will prevent/discourage wonderful sources from participating. Less is moreThe best moderator is NO moderator
Quote from: freddo411 on 03/31/2021 01:02 amI voted noEvery so often a newbie like Nomad shows up. A prescribed system of special, blessed update people will prevent/discourage wonderful sources from participating. Less is moreThe best moderator is NO moderatorBut this isn't the question.Currently there is a moderator who works his/her butt off to delete all these non-update posts.Nobody (except a rare few) seem to be asking to get rid of this moderator. Hip tip...won't happen.The question is to the manner of deletion. Either delete before the post (i.e. never let it happen in the first place) or delete after the post. Many people think that getting their posts deleted within minutes is the best way to welcome new members. Nothing says "Welcome brother! Welcome sister!" better than a big, fat DELETE.Personally, I think that's nuts. Just me, I guess.
Quote from: JimOnMars on 03/31/2021 02:18 amQuote from: freddo411 on 03/31/2021 01:02 amI voted noEvery so often a newbie like Nomad shows up. A prescribed system of special, blessed update people will prevent/discourage wonderful sources from participating. Less is moreThe best moderator is NO moderatorBut this isn't the question.Currently there is a moderator who works his/her butt off to delete all these non-update posts.Nobody (except a rare few) seem to be asking to get rid of this moderator. Hip tip...won't happen.The question is to the manner of deletion. Either delete before the post (i.e. never let it happen in the first place) or delete after the post. Many people think that getting their posts deleted within minutes is the best way to welcome new members. Nothing says "Welcome brother! Welcome sister!" better than a big, fat DELETE.Personally, I think that's nuts. Just me, I guess.. Sorry I didn’t really mean to get rid of the moderation scheme that is currently used here.I meant to imply that we should not have barriers for normal people posting into any threads. In other words moderation in a broad context.
Post, DELETE, Post, DELETE, Post, DELETE, Post, DELETE...why do you want this?Why is deleting people's posts not a barrier?
The question is to the manner of deletion. Either delete before the post (i.e. never let it happen in the first place) or delete after the post. Many people think that getting their posts deleted within minutes is the best way to welcome new members. Nothing says "Welcome brother! Welcome sister!" better than a big, fat DELETE.
My vote is for a a warning or a checkbox (are you sure this is an update, plz post questions in <link> thread)
Quote from: capoman on 03/30/2021 08:10 pmPossibly the only limitation I can see is minimum number of posts such as 100 posts or something similar. Many of the people making the mistake are new to the forums and don't fully understand the rules as many other forums do not have these types of posting rules. Veteran posters do occasionally make this mistake also (including myself), but usually remove it as soon as they realize the mistake. It's easy to make this mistake due to the number of threads many of us have open due to the limited scope of threads. But I think a certain amount of experience in the forum is the best way to handle this.Edit: if a new user does have a useful update, they could always post in the discussion area for a veteran or mod to repost in updates.Not sure if a post limit is the way to go. Highly knowledgeable users or actual industry users who don't post often will be left out. In my experience new users will start posting rubish or barely passable posts to reach 100 posts as soon as possible.
Lots of good suggestions. As of right now I'm not sure we have an easy technical way to implement some of them. I like the big popup but I myself don't know how to do it... (not to be confused with can't be done!!!) I REALLY like the suggestion to "make clicking on “quote” on an Updates post bring you to the Discussion page by default..." so far no one who's looked at it has sorted out how to do it.