Author Topic: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****  (Read 110919 times)

Offline sanman

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Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« on: 05/10/2025 10:49 am »
Hi, is it alright if I create a separate spoiler thread for more detailed and unhindered discussion of Andor Season 2 (and even Season 1 as well, since not everyone may have seen that)?

I just got through with watching up to Episode 9 of the latest Season 2 release, and was eager to delve into the topic.
(May take me a bit, as I'll have to make a list, so feel free to jump in ahead of me with whatever)

*** Fair Warning:  SPOILERS Ahead  ****
*** Do Not Proceed if You haven't seen Andor Season 2, and don't like Spoilers ****

EDIT: Also, here's link to old Season 1 thread

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=56423.0
« Last Edit: 05/13/2025 05:22 pm by sanman »

Offline sanman

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #1 on: 05/10/2025 02:47 pm »
Gee, lots of thoughs here.

Maybe before commenting, I should ask for help on answers to help me fill in some blanks here and there.

Who was that "Lady in Red" whom Bix takes Andor to see? Is she a "Force sensitive" (like Donny Yen's monk character in Rogue One)?
I ask, because she seems to give Cassian a brief encounter with something higher than his usual travails of existence - ie. something supernatural, metaphysical... spiritual?
And yet he dismisses her as a cook -- before later discovering that her "hokey" healing powers did indeed do some magic.

In that scene on the prairie, just before Andor comes swooping in with his TIE fighter to blast the baddies, we get a close-up shot of a stormtrooper taking aim. Was that the shot which killed Brasso? Because next we see of him, he's dead on the ground. I'd liked his character a lot. If only Cassian had arrived a few seconds sooner...

That TIE fighter model looked familiar. Was this one that was introduced in Rogue One? Somehow I remember they had some aerodynamic TIE models in that movie.

Near the end of Ep 9, we see Wilmon lying injured with his Gormand girlfriend tending to him. Did they explicitly show how he got injured? Because I don't remember that moment.

What exactly were those "variations" on the rhydonium device? Just different configurations for building a powerful bomb?
I forget what exactly the device was supposed to be used for.

That scene where Saw Guerrera seems to inspire/motivate Wilmon to take off his mask, whereupon he starts choking -- what exactly was he inhaling? I thought they were still on the same planet with the same usual atmosphere. I didn't quite understand that bit.

What was Luthen trying to do by offering Bix an assignment while Cassian was away? Was he trying to get her killed and out of the way -- perhaps even cynically hoping that her death would make Andor more vengeful and even more committed to the rebel cause? Scary.

Who was that young guy Bix saw in her nightmare? Not the torture doctor guy - the other young guy. Was he the guy that Cassian just casually shot dead back in Season1? If so, how did Bix even know about him? (Sorry, couldn't be bothered to look for that episode to review)

What should we assume happened to Mon's banker friend? What exactly did assassin-girl do to him?

Why haven't we seen Emperor Palpatine yet? Are they possibly saving Ian Macdermid for a reveal cameo at the end, just like they gave us marauding Darth Vader at end of Rogue One? Or do you think we'll get nothing?

Will we get a glimpse of Galen Erso (Jyn Erso's father)?

Are Deirdre & whatsisname already married, or just living together?
(I guess if mom's only just met her, then there probably hasn't been a wedding yet, but it wasn't clear)

Why wasn't Jimmy Smits (LA Law guy) back to play Bail Organa?


Offline sanman

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #2 on: 05/10/2025 02:56 pm »
That scene where Saw Guerrera seems to inspire/motivate Wilmon to take off his mask, whereupon he starts choking -- what exactly was he inhaling? I thought they were still on the same planet with the same usual atmosphere. I didn't quite understand that bit.

Okay, wait - I found this:


Online Blackstar

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #3 on: 05/10/2025 03:39 pm »
Gee, lots of thoughs here.

Maybe before commenting, I should ask for help on answers to help me fill in some blanks here and there.

Who was that "Lady in Red" whom Bix takes Andor to see? Is she a "Force sensitive" (like Donny Yen's monk character in Rogue One)?
I ask, because she seems to give Cassian a brief encounter with something higher than his usual travails of existence - ie. something supernatural, metaphysical... spiritual?
And yet he dismisses her as a cook -- before later discovering that her "hokey" healing powers did indeed do some magic.

She's introduced as a "Force healer," and Cassian dismisses that as just superstition and hokum. One of the premises of the show is that almost nobody knows about the Jedi, the Sith, or the Force. Most people encounter none of that, so it's just superstition and rumor.

The key takeaway from that scene is that she refers to Cassian as "a messenger," and there are a lot of examples of that once you think about it--he carries messages forward.

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #4 on: 05/10/2025 03:42 pm »

What exactly were those "variations" on the rhydonium device? Just different configurations for building a powerful bomb?
I forget what exactly the device was supposed to be used for.


Rhydonium is fuel and it is toxic. The device is a kind of safe cracker. They were going to try and steal from one of eight different pipelines, and the operator had to be able to deal with each of them. That's a key point when Saw kills the spy--the guy asked which site they were going to hit, and that convinced Saw that the guy was a spy and they would be ambushed.

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #5 on: 05/10/2025 03:42 pm »
That scene where Saw Guerrera seems to inspire/motivate Wilmon to take off his mask, whereupon he starts choking -- what exactly was he inhaling? I thought they were still on the same planet with the same usual atmosphere. I didn't quite understand that bit.

Okay, wait - I found this:




I was going to send you there. Saw is crazy. He knows he is crazy. And the rhydonium exposure now helps explain a lot of why he is crazy.

But just because he is crazy does not mean he is wrong.

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #6 on: 05/10/2025 03:43 pm »
Why wasn't Jimmy Smits (LA Law guy) back to play Bail Organa?

They said it was due to scheduling. He had another commitment. Of course, it also could have been that he wanted more money than they were willing to pay.

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #7 on: 05/10/2025 03:44 pm »
What should we assume happened to Mon's banker friend? What exactly did assassin-girl do to him?

I assume that she landed the flyer, shot him, and buried him somewhere he won't be found.

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #8 on: 05/10/2025 03:46 pm »
That TIE fighter model looked familiar. Was this one that was introduced in Rogue One? Somehow I remember they had some aerodynamic TIE models in that movie.

No. Unique design, with lots of extra tech. We can assume that because it never showed up in Star Wars or later films that the Empire never put it into production.

Offline sanman

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #9 on: 05/10/2025 04:21 pm »
She's introduced as a "Force healer," and Cassian dismisses that as just superstition and hokum. One of the premises of the show is that almost nobody knows about the Jedi, the Sith, or the Force. Most people encounter none of that, so it's just superstition and rumor.

What you say is consistent with the original Star Wars movie. And yet Darth Vader & Order 66 aren't 500 years old. Prior to their destruction/extermination, the Jedi were a major reality and key elements of law enforcement in the Old Republic not that long ago. How do we reconcile that radical change in public knowledge? Or should we just accept it as part of suspension of disbelief?

Quote
The key takeaway from that scene is that she refers to Cassian as "a messenger," and there are a lot of examples of that once you think about it--he carries messages forward.

To me, when she said that, she was speaking in a greater sense, rather than just his immediate operational role.

A messenger -- foreshadowing his key achievement in Rogue One, which was to transmit the Death Star plans to the rebel alliance via the comms tower at Skariff.
Without that, they couldn't have won at Yavin, and all would have been lost.

Offline sanman

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #10 on: 05/10/2025 04:30 pm »
Why wasn't Jimmy Smits (LA Law guy) back to play Bail Organa?

They said it was due to scheduling. He had another commitment. Of course, it also could have been that he wanted more money than they were willing to pay.

Gee, I can imagine how that conversation might have gone -- "did he have a number"?  :P  :-X

Offline sanman

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #11 on: 05/10/2025 05:28 pm »
So I wanted to make some points, but not right off the bat, since they'll probably come across as nitpickery. But it's for discussion, so:

I felt the whole "France in Space" thing was a little too on the nose.
("Long, long ago... Il Etait Un Fois... La France")

Classical Star Wars has been more allegorical, and drew from a mix of sources, without any one influence predominating over all others. Yes, we could compare the Empire to an evil fascist regime like the Reich -- the fact that their main henchmen were named "stormtroopers" and the ominous Stukka-style scream of the TIE fighters were strong hints. But there were so many other influences (LotR, Hidden Fortress, etc) that these rounded out the mix.

Here we got full-on Gormand-is-France, right down to them speaking faux-French. I feel they didn't have to go that specific, and reproduce a literal near carbon-copy of France. Sometimes the Uncanny Valley of over-similarities disrupted my story immersion and took me out of it.

In addition to Andor & Co tying up with the French Underground Resistance, we even got Les Miserables, where Syril Karn is obsessively chasing Cassian, like Inspector Javert relentlessly chasing the hero Jean Valjean.
(We're going to need a parody trailer for that: "Don't make me angry, Mr Karn -- you wouldn't like me when I'm angry")

In some ways, I think this entire storyline would have been more suitable for Blake's 7, since that had more menace and less fairytale elements in it. But Rogue One itself tried to minimize the fairytale elements and focus on the Dirty Dozen mission aspect.

I feel like the story has turned a corner with the death of Syril Karn and the departure of Bix. Now we'll get Alan Tudyk as K2SO, and more Orson Krennic too, hopefully, as the final 3 episodes try to bridge with Rogue One.


When we saw Cassian Andor die along with Jyn Erso at the end of Rogue One, it always struck me as strange how they just platonically hold hands and hug, as the blast wave from the Death Star's strike advances towards them.
I thought they should have kissed or something, to make it more dramatic. But now that we see the Andor series, and his relationship with Bix, then it sets things straight.

When they made Rogue One, did they then already have the idea for making Cassian Andor's backstory into a full story of its own?

Likewise, when the name of the series was announced as "Andor" the choice of title struck me as a little strange, since it wasn't like he was already a huge tentpole character in the Star Wars universe, like Obi-Wan.

So in retrospect, it does perhaps now seem pluasible/likely to me that the Rogue One movie and the idea behind the Andor series were both conceived together. Does anybody know?

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #12 on: 05/10/2025 06:26 pm »
So I wanted to make some points, but not right off the bat, since they'll probably come across as nitpickery. But it's for discussion, so:

I felt the whole "France in Space" thing was a little too on the nose.
("Long, long ago... Il Etait Un Fois... La France")

Classical Star Wars has been more allegorical, and drew from a mix of sources, without any one influence predominating over all others. Yes, we could compare the Empire to an evil fascist regime like the Reich -- the fact that their main henchmen were named "stormtroopers" and the ominous Stukka-style scream of the TIE fighters were strong hints. But there were so many other influences (LotR, Hidden Fortress, etc) that these rounded out the mix.

Here we got full-on Gormand-is-France, right down to them speaking faux-French. I feel they didn't have to go that specific, and reproduce a literal near carbon-copy of France. Sometimes the Uncanny Valley of over-similarities disrupted my story immersion and took me out of it.

In addition to Andor & Co tying up with the French Underground Resistance, we even got Les Miserables, where Syril Karn is obsessively chasing Cassian, like Inspector Javert relentlessly chasing the hero Jean Valjean.
(We're going to need a parody trailer for that: "Don't make me angry, Mr Karn -- you wouldn't like me when I'm angry")

In some ways, I think this entire storyline would have been more suitable for Blake's 7, since that had more menace and less fairytale elements in it. But Rogue One itself tried to minimize the fairytale elements and focus on the Dirty Dozen mission aspect.

I feel like the story has turned a corner with the death of Syril Karn and the departure of Bix. Now we'll get Alan Tudyk as K2SO, and more Orson Krennic too, hopefully, as the final 3 episodes try to bridge with Rogue One.


When we saw Cassian Andor die along with Jyn Erso at the end of Rogue One, it always struck me as strange how they just platonically hold hands and hug, as the blast wave from the Death Star's strike advances towards them.
I thought they should have kissed or something, to make it more dramatic. But now that we see the Andor series, and his relationship with Bix, then it sets things straight.

When they made Rogue One, did they then already have the idea for making Cassian Andor's backstory into a full story of its own?

Likewise, when the name of the series was announced as "Andor" the choice of title struck me as a little strange, since it wasn't like he was already a huge tentpole character in the Star Wars universe, like Obi-Wan.

So in retrospect, it does perhaps now seem pluasible/likely to me that the Rogue One movie and the idea behind the Andor series were both conceived together. Does anybody know?

This video may explain the parallels between our historic rebellions and Star Wars lore.

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Offline sanman

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #13 on: 05/10/2025 06:47 pm »

This video may explain the parallels between our historic rebellions and Star Wars lore.

So it' can also be useful to reference Game of Thrones here. People often said while that show superficially seemed to be about swords and sorcery fantasy, it was actually about politics. Likewise that's what we have with Andor.
In our discussion thread on the 3rd Star Wars trilogy, I'd mentioned how it felt like that whole storyline was a ham-handed attempt to replicate a Game of Thrones storyline in the Star Wars universe. That failed, and it didn't look good on Kathleen Kennedy.
But this time with Andor, they seem to have re-attempted this and paid more attention to getting it right.

Still, I don't think there was any need to reproduce "France in Space" in order to tell the story they wanted.

Do you remember that Swedish Chef from the Muppet Show?
They made him speak something that sounded like a parody of Swedish -- for laughs, of course.



That's what the "French" spoken on Ghormand sounded like to me -- a nonsense parody of French

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Offline sanman

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #15 on: 05/11/2025 04:21 am »
https://gizmodo.com/andor-season-2-syril-death-fascism-star-wars-2000600158

Syril definitely seemed like the guy who'd drank the kool-aid, and bought into what the Empire was supposed to be to its supporters. To him, Cassian was a terrorist and a threat to society.

But near the end, when he discovers what the Empire's plans were for Ghormand, then his world collapses. His most basic fundamental truths are shattered.

Then when he finally spots Andor and comes at him, he's venting all his frustrations of shattered dreams onto a guy who has no idea what the heck is going on with him. At the time, Cassian must have been feeling like one of the other Sarah Connors.

While he'd also taken out his rage on Dedre, the fact that he doesn't go into full rebellion against the Empire is rather telling. He's too confused and too limited in his scope of thought, unable to do much more than lash out against what's immediately in front of him.

What would he have done if he'd lived? Just ran home back to mom?

Offline catdlr

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #16 on: 05/11/2025 04:23 am »
https://gizmodo.com/andor-season-2-syril-death-fascism-star-wars-2000600158

This is an interesting article, and now this from a different angle from "The Force Famdom" but from a different slant:  "What's If I'm Wrong." What if we've been living based on a Lie?

« Last Edit: 05/11/2025 04:31 am by catdlr »
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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #17 on: 05/11/2025 04:23 am »
"Even Syril’s blaster went on a character arc".

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Offline sanman

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #18 on: 05/11/2025 04:35 am »
"Even Syril’s blaster went on a character arc".

So does that mean this blaster goes on to be something special? Does it get used in Rogue One, for example?
I'm briefly remihded of Kylo Ren's obsession with collecting relics associated with the Dark Side of the Force.
Would this blaster be an example of something associated with the Light Side?

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Re: Andor **** SPOILER Discussion ****
« Reply #19 on: 05/11/2025 05:11 am »
"Even Syril’s blaster went on a character arc".

So does that mean this blaster goes on to be something special? Does it get used in Rogue One, for example?
I'm briefly remihded of Kylo Ren's obsession with collecting relics associated with the Dark Side of the Force.
Would this blaster be an example of something associated with the Light Side?


That gun doesn't appear in *Rogue One* unless it's pivotal in the last three episodes of *Andor*. The fact that it was mentioned in this scene is interesting. Yes, it gives the producers a way to reintroduce Melshi after we last saw him at the conclusion of the prison break. However, his return could have been simply a mention during a troop roll call. To me, the gun still has a "life" in it that may play out next week. It shows the details that the writers have included, with even the smallest elements carefully written and remembered. 
PSA #3:  Paywall? View this video on how-to temporary Disable Java-Script: youtu.be/KvBv16tw-UM
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