Author Topic: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6  (Read 598808 times)

Offline yg1968

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« Last Edit: 04/08/2025 12:41 pm by yg1968 »


Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #2 on: 04/08/2025 01:39 am »
https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/1909384195774070929

https://twitter.com/rookisaacman/status/1909392856956940384

Quote from: Senator Ted Cruz
This week the Senate Commerce Committee will hear from President Trump's nominee to be NASA Administrator, Jared Isaacman.

During our meeting, Mr. Isaacman committed to having American astronauts return to the lunar surface ASAP so we can develop the technologies needed to go on to Mars.

The moon mission MUST happen in President Trump's term or else China will beat us there and build the first moonbase.

Artemis and the Moon-to-Mars Program are critical for American leadership in space!

Quote from: Jared Isaacman
Very grateful for your support Mr. Chairman.
« Last Edit: 04/08/2025 01:46 am by yg1968 »

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #3 on: 04/08/2025 08:13 am »
I am not surprised by keeping the focus on the Moon right now.  I don't think SLS/Orion will be canceled immediately.  I think they are going to phase SLS and Orion out as they plan a more long term sustainable program.  I still think a wise move would be to ask for industry proposals on what they could do by early next decade before cutting or shortening the existing program.  They have to figure the politics into this if they want to keep support from Congress.

Offline catdlr

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #4 on: 04/08/2025 09:54 pm »
Cross-post:

NSF Phillip Sloss Quarterly Update,

NASA Artemis II, III, IV Quarterly Update #5, 2025 First Quarter in Review

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=58223.msg2678065#msg2678065

00:00 Intro
00:20 Quarter in review: three major themes
03:54 Artemis II status and outlook
08:00 Artemis III status and (cloudy) outlook
23:52 Artemis IV status and outlook
35:02 Artemis V and beyond
37:15 Thanks for watching!
PSA #3:  Paywall? View this video on how-to temporary Disable Java-Script: youtu.be/KvBv16tw-UM
A golden rule from Chris B:  "focus on what is being said, not disparage people who say it."


Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #6 on: 04/08/2025 10:37 pm »
Trump's NASA pick wants to prioritize Mars, setting stage for tense Senate hearing:
https://www.reuters.com/science/trump-nasa-nominee-says-agency-will-prioritize-mars-mission-2025-04-08/

Online TheRadicalModerate

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #7 on: 04/08/2025 11:26 pm »
Trump's NASA pick wants to prioritize Mars, setting stage for tense Senate hearing:
https://www.reuters.com/science/trump-nasa-nominee-says-agency-will-prioritize-mars-mission-2025-04-08/

So we have a single reporter who's produced nearly diametrically opposite stories on two successive days.

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #8 on: 04/08/2025 11:41 pm »
Trump's NASA pick wants to prioritize Mars, setting stage for tense Senate hearing:
https://www.reuters.com/science/trump-nasa-nominee-says-agency-will-prioritize-mars-mission-2025-04-08/
So we have a single reporter who's produced nearly diametrically opposite stories on two successive days.

About someone that will be trying to figure out how to 1) be confirmed as NASA Administrator, and 2) abide by the wishes of his future boss (who is known to be all over the place on many topics).

Tough job, will be interesting to watch what happens...
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline VSECOTSPE

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #9 on: 04/09/2025 04:03 am »
So we have a single reporter who's produced nearly diametrically opposite stories on two successive days.

It ain’t the reporter’s fault.   The subject matter went in diametrically opposite directions within a couple days.

Isaacman met with Cruz.  Cruz tweeted that they had a discussion about staying the course towards the Moon.  Isaacman tweeted thanks in response.  Reporter reported such.

A day or so later, reporter got ahold of Isaacman’s testimony, which make Mars central.  Reporter reported such.

Typical Trump II crosscurrents.  Par for the course with this Administration.  Not any journalist’s failing.

The most interesting comment is Britt’s tweet.  Unlike Cruz, she holds real power on appropriations.  And she inherited Shelby’s Alabama seat.  Yet she did not mention SLS...

Maybe just an oversight on her or her staff’s part.  Or maybe an indication there has been a deal with the White House that approps will let SLS die in exchange for something(s) else that keep MSFC and allies central.

Moon versus Mars is a meaningless debate as long as the US human space exploration program has to go through Orion/SLS.  SLS can’t support Mars, and Orion/SLS will struggle to deliver half the Apollo flight rate, at best.  Get off Orion/SLS, however, and human Mars missions or supra-Apollo lunar mission rates — or both — become possible.

The only thing that really matters is getting off Orion/SLS.  And Britt’s comment is the only one that impinges on that, and then only by omission.

If Isaacman endorses Orion/SLS tomorrow, nothing else discussed regarding human space exploration will matter much over the next four years..  If Isaacman does not endorse Orion/SLS, explicitly or by omission, then there’s still some room for change over the next four years.

FWIW...

Online TheRadicalModerate

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #10 on: 04/09/2025 09:32 am »
The most interesting comment is Britt’s tweet.  Unlike Cruz, she holds real power on appropriations.  And she inherited Shelby’s Alabama seat.  Yet she did not mention SLS...

She inherited Shelby's seat, but not his seniority.  Cruz doesn't hold much appropriations power, but he's doing weird stuff with the authorization bill.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #11 on: 04/09/2025 11:20 am »
So we have a single reporter who's produced nearly diametrically opposite stories on two successive days.

It ain’t the reporter’s fault.   The subject matter went in diametrically opposite directions within a couple days.

Isaacman met with Cruz.  Cruz tweeted that they had a discussion about staying the course towards the Moon.  Isaacman tweeted thanks in response.  Reporter reported such.

A day or so later, reporter got ahold of Isaacman’s testimony, which make Mars central.  Reporter reported such.

Typical Trump II crosscurrents.  Par for the course with this Administration.  Not any journalist’s failing.

The most interesting comment is Britt’s tweet.  Unlike Cruz, she holds real power on appropriations.  And she inherited Shelby’s Alabama seat.  Yet she did not mention SLS...

Maybe just an oversight on her or her staff’s part.  Or maybe an indication there has been a deal with the White House that approps will let SLS die in exchange for something(s) else that keep MSFC and allies central.

Moon versus Mars is a meaningless debate as long as the US human space exploration program has to go through Orion/SLS.  SLS can’t support Mars, and Orion/SLS will struggle to deliver half the Apollo flight rate, at best.  Get off Orion/SLS, however, and human Mars missions or supra-Apollo lunar mission rates — or both — become possible.

The only thing that really matters is getting off Orion/SLS.  And Britt’s comment is the only one that impinges on that, and then only by omission.

If Isaacman endorses Orion/SLS tomorrow, nothing else discussed regarding human space exploration will matter much over the next four years..  If Isaacman does not endorse Orion/SLS, explicitly or by omission, then there’s still some room for change over the next four years.

FWIW...
I don’t think SLS/Orion matter that much. The pot of money isn’t needed from them.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #12 on: 04/09/2025 12:54 pm »
See below:

NASA stream for the confirmation hearing:



Offline VSECOTSPE

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #13 on: 04/09/2025 01:05 pm »
I don’t think SLS/Orion matter that much. The pot of money isn’t needed from them.

I’d argue that the ~$5B in Artemis budget oxygen and the 30K+ of the limited national aerospace workforce that Orion/SLS is consuming annually matters a great deal.  But even if we set all that aside, the existence of Orion/SLS blocks pursuit of alternatives by NASA.  Until NASA is allowed to pursue alternatives, Orion/SLS is a huge limiter on what NASA can do in human space exploration.

If your point is that the private sector, especially SpaceX and Blue Origin, don’t need NASA money to send people to Mars or the Moon, I agree.  Especially in the case of SpaceX, NASA’s most important role going forward is as a well of technical expertise and federal funding is really secondary given massive StarLink revenue.

FWIW...

Offline DanClemmensen

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #14 on: 04/09/2025 01:36 pm »
If your point is that the private sector, especially SpaceX and Blue Origin, don’t need NASA money to send people to Mars or the Moon, I agree.  Especially in the case of SpaceX, NASA’s most important role going forward is as a well of technical expertise and federal funding is really secondary given massive StarLink revenue.
However, if NASA wants to go to the Moon but SpaceX is not really interested, then NASA must pay SpaceX enough to provide at least a small profit on the incremental cost of the Moon portion of the Starship program.

Offline VSECOTSPE

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #15 on: 04/09/2025 02:14 pm »
However, if NASA wants to go to the Moon but SpaceX is not really interested, then NASA must pay SpaceX enough to provide at least a small profit on the incremental cost of the Moon portion of the Starship program.

Agreed.  I was writing in terms of SpaceX going it alone.

Offline VSECOTSPE

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #16 on: 04/09/2025 02:22 pm »

Following up on my post yesterday...

The most interesting comment is Britt’s tweet.  Unlike Cruz, she holds real power on appropriations.  And she inherited Shelby’s Alabama seat.  Yet she did not mention SLS...

Maybe just an oversight on her or her staff’s part.  Or maybe an indication there has been a deal with the White House that approps will let SLS die in exchange for something(s) else that keep MSFC and allies central.

Based on Isaacman’s testimony, there may be a deal, and the deal may be SLS dies and MSFC gets more nuke propulsion funding:

Quote
We will focus our technology development efforts on the world’s greatest engineering challenges, such as the practical application of nuclear propulsion, so that we can truly unlock humankind’s ability to explore among the stars.

https://www.commerce.senate.gov/services/files/AF1E2124-BB39-4160-A28C-1F6CC2F020FD

In what’s otherwise very high level and rather bland testimony, nuclear propulsion kind of sticks out as a rather specific detail.

I could be wrong — it may just be the example that came to mind when Isaacman was writing this.  But it smells like a deal was struck.

FWIW...

Offline VSECOTSPE

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #17 on: 04/09/2025 02:33 pm »
She inherited Shelby's seat, but not his seniority.

She’s not a chair like Shelby was, but she got a seat on approps in her first term, which is unusual.  Usually congressmen have to earn their way onto approps.  In Monopoly terms, she got to pass “Go” and went straight to “Boardwalk”.  From that position, she can direct funding to SLS or whatever at MSFC, especially with an assist from the several other AL/LA/UT congressmen on approps in both houses,

She also gave the Republican response to one of Biden’s addresses.  So she has some pull or cache within the party.

Outwardly, she seems unimpressive to me.  Her rather weird response to the Biden address was mocked in places like SNL.  But she was Shelby’s chief of staff and so knows the value of pork and may be very good at pulling strings behind the curtain to ensure it keeps flowing.

FWIW...

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #18 on: 04/09/2025 06:15 pm »
IMO, everything seems pretty consistent with the idea of Marshall and others redirecting their focus from SLS to nuclear thermal propulsion. Jared mentioned nuclear propulsion explicitly. The old Moon to Mars leadership folk seemed pretty interested in nuclear thermal as well.

I think it’d be a good transition. It is still propulsion, it is a legitimate challenge that is difficult for the private sector to do, and the leadership and probably workforce would be able to passionately support it.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: NASA's Artemis Program Updates and Discussion Thread 6
« Reply #19 on: 04/09/2025 06:17 pm »

Following up on my post yesterday...

The most interesting comment is Britt’s tweet.  Unlike Cruz, she holds real power on appropriations.  And she inherited Shelby’s Alabama seat.  Yet she did not mention SLS...

Maybe just an oversight on her or her staff’s part.  Or maybe an indication there has been a deal with the White House that approps will let SLS die in exchange for something(s) else that keep MSFC and allies central.

Based on Isaacman’s testimony, there may be a deal, and the deal may be SLS dies and MSFC gets more nuke propulsion funding:

Quote
We will focus our technology development efforts on the world’s greatest engineering challenges, such as the practical application of nuclear propulsion, so that we can truly unlock humankind’s ability to explore among the stars.

https://www.commerce.senate.gov/services/files/AF1E2124-BB39-4160-A28C-1F6CC2F020FD

In what’s otherwise very high level and rather bland testimony, nuclear propulsion kind of sticks out as a rather specific detail.

I could be wrong — it may just be the example that came to mind when Isaacman was writing this.  But it smells like a deal was struck.

FWIW...
Agreed. I’ve called for this myself. It’s both logical and seems like nuclear thermal already has traction with the workforce.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

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