Author Topic: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread 1  (Read 291189 times)

Offline Mongo62

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: 11/22/2014 09:45 pm »
You mean on this Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship.  ;D

Offline symbios

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: 11/22/2014 09:57 pm »
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk answer to reply of his original tweet
Quote
Base is 300 ft by 100 ft, with wings that extend width to 170 ft. Will allow refuel & rocket flyback in future.
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Offline tobi453

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: 11/22/2014 10:02 pm »
So the first stage lands on the barge, is refueled and flies back to the launch site?

Amazing! 8)

Offline sdsds

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: 11/22/2014 10:37 pm »
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk answer to reply of his original tweet
Quote
Base is 300 ft by 100 ft, with wings that extend width to 170 ft. Will allow refuel & rocket flyback in future.

That, as a tweet from Musk, is a huge confirmation/affirmation of their vision. Particularly (IMO) for the center core of the FH.
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Offline sanman

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: 11/22/2014 11:29 pm »
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk answer to reply of his original tweet
Quote
Base is 300 ft by 100 ft, with wings that extend width to 170 ft. Will allow refuel & rocket flyback in future.

So he's saying that rocket descending from space gets to touch down on barge, then gets to refuel there, and then gets to blast off again to fly itself back to launch port?

Holy smokes!  :o

Don't you need just a little servicing in between, before rocket can take off from barge again?



Offline Billium

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Offline sanman

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: 11/22/2014 11:34 pm »
Okay, but would any hydraulics be necessary on that landing deck platform, to keep it level and the rocket stage balanced, just in case there are any waves or swells in the water?

Offline MechE31

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: 11/22/2014 11:45 pm »
This isn't Engineering 101, but it isn't post-graduate study either.  The rocket walls are relatively thin metal.  They are somewhat reinforced (with stringers) against losing their shape, but that strength lies mostly along the walls, not through them.  Furthermore, that strength is mostly in tension, not in compression.

When you apply a transverse force to the rocket (for instance, by fixing the bottom end to the ground and then pulling the top sideways (or blowing wind across it)), then in the absence of other forces there will be a compressive force on the rocket wall away from the wind, and a tensile force on the rocket wall that has the wind pushing on it.  If nothing else were done, there would be a tendency for the tube to buckle on the side away from the wind, once the compressive force exceeds the compressive strength of the wall.

But, if you pressurize the tank, then you have a tensile force added uniformly to the all sides of the rocket.  The side away from the wind will not buckle until the compressive force due to the wind exceeds the tensile force due to the internal pressure.  That net compressive force must exceed the rocket's wall strength for buckling to occur.

It is possible, if the pressurization is too high, for the windward side to suffer tensile failure, but that would take some doing...

Another example would be in how concrete is reinforced for use in bridges.  Concrete is the opposite of metal: it is good for compression and poor in tension.  So to make it stronger, you compress it, so you don't have a net tension right away.

Was that clear as mud?  My profession is computer programmer, but my degree was mechanical engineering.

While I agree with what you said, remember that F9R Dev 1 spent a lot time in TX upright with no other support than at the base and it can get pretty windy in McGregor.

Offline Chris Bergin

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Offline sanman

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: 11/23/2014 12:24 am »
Sorry, this is probably a dumb question - but why would you want an inbound spacecraft to land on this, only to have it fly off to another location? Wouldn't you just want to land at that other location in the first place, rather than onto this barge temporarily? What is the purpose/benefit of using this barge as a temporary landing spot?

I thought the whole idea behind the barge was just to use it in the interim, until re-entry and landings are improved to be able to land on land properly with high confidence.

Is this autonomous barge supposed to be a long-term addition to the SpaceX equipment lineup?



« Last Edit: 11/23/2014 12:25 am by sanman »

Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: 11/23/2014 12:29 am »
Looks pretty long term given the future refuel and relaunch back to land comment. ISTM that function would be for low propellant margin launches like GTO, BEO, heavy payloads etc. Those that otherwise be fated to go into the drink.
« Last Edit: 11/23/2014 12:30 am by docmordrid »
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Offline RonM

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: 11/23/2014 12:33 am »
Sorry, this is probably a dumb question - but why would you want an inbound spacecraft to land on this, only to have it fly off to another location? Wouldn't you just want to land at that other location in the first place, rather than onto this barge temporarily? What is the purpose/benefit of using this barge as a temporary landing spot?

I thought the whole idea behind the barge was just to use it in the interim, until re-entry and landings are improved to be able to land on land properly with high confidence.

Is this autonomous barge supposed to be a long-term addition to the SpaceX equipment lineup?

You can use less fuel for boost back or even skip it entirely. That will get you more payload to orbit. Could be useful to recover the central core on a Falcon Heavy.

We'll see how well it works.

Offline dorkmo

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: 11/23/2014 12:42 am »
Apparently this is how they will station keep... http://www.thrustmaster.net/spacex-announces-spaceport-barge-positioned-thrustmasters-thrusters/

in the pic you can see the 5 containerized pieces, 2 hydraulic units at each end, 1 communication/control at the very top to the left

Offline docmordrid

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: 11/23/2014 12:43 am »
Apparently this is how they will station keep... http://www.thrustmaster.net/spacex-announces-spaceport-barge-positioned-thrustmasters-thrusters/

In their press release they constantly refer to the autonomous spaceport in the plural. Maybe Chris can ask about a  naming contest? ;)
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: 11/23/2014 12:53 am »
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk answer to reply of his original tweet
Quote
Base is 300 ft by 100 ft, with wings that extend width to 170 ft. Will allow refuel & rocket flyback in future.

So he's saying that rocket descending from space gets to touch down on barge, then gets to refuel there, and then gets to blast off again to fly itself back to launch port?

Holy smokes!  :o

Don't you need just a little servicing in between, before rocket can take off from barge again?
This is what is meant by "rapid reusability." :)
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Offline sanman

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: 11/23/2014 01:02 am »
This is what is meant by "rapid reusability." :)

Okay, but so that probably means there's going to be another ship with personnel on it nearby, and after the "all clear" has been given, they quickly dock, secure the rocket, hook up fluid lines, replenish the fluids, kick the tires, then get back onto their boat and sail off to a safe distance to watch rocket take off from barge again?

What keeps upright rocket securely on the barge platform, so that it doesn't tip over due to ocean swells and waves? Is the deck kept level by hydraulic actuators? Presumably, F9R legs don't have any active balancing actuation capability, do they?

Offline Jdeshetler

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: 11/23/2014 01:07 am »
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Autonomous spaceport drone ship. Thrusters repurposed from deep sea oil rigs hold position within 3m even in a storm.

Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Base is 300 ft by 100 ft, with wings that extend width to 170 ft. Will allow refuel & rocket flyback in future.



I wonder if there's extra points for landing in the yellow circle!

Well, it would be NICE if those lines and labels was added to make some office bets... ::)

Offline RocketmanUS

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: 11/23/2014 01:15 am »
Is it possible SpaceX will have the autonomous spaceport drone ship just off shore ( few miles ) and ship the stage back? That is to avoid possible future mishaps with a stage landing on land near people and infrastructure.

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: 11/23/2014 01:23 am »
An explicit confirmation of land-and-fly-back was what I wanted for Christmas. It's the solution that always made the most amount of sense.

Same with earlier deployment of legs, BTW.  The late deploy was bothering me all this time, and now it appears that it is just a temporary thing.

Awesome.
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Offline dorkmo

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Re: SpaceX's Autonomous Spaceport Drone Ship Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: 11/23/2014 01:24 am »
Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Autonomous spaceport drone ship. Thrusters repurposed from deep sea oil rigs hold position within 3m even in a storm.

Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk
Base is 300 ft by 100 ft, with wings that extend width to 170 ft. Will allow refuel & rocket flyback in future.



I wonder if there's extra points for landing in the yellow circle!

Well, it would be NICE if those lines and labels was added to make some office bets... ::)

perhaps a dart board theme?

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