Author Topic: NASA - Europa Clipper updates and discussion  (Read 389745 times)

Offline Targeteer

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #860 on: 09/17/2024 03:13 pm »
Press conference started
Best quote heard during an inspection, "I was unaware that I was the only one who was aware."

Offline redliox

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #861 on: 09/17/2024 03:35 pm »
They confirmed they're going to try to launch on 10th of October.
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Offline Targeteer

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #862 on: 09/18/2024 05:36 pm »
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/8-things-to-know-about-nasas-mission-to-an-ocean-moon-of-jupiter/

8 Things to Know About NASA’s Mission to an Ocean Moon of Jupiter
Sept. 17, 2024
Best quote heard during an inspection, "I was unaware that I was the only one who was aware."

Online catdlr

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #863 on: 09/20/2024 12:01 am »
https://twitter.com/NASAJPL/status/1836509559562866816


Europa and Beyond: A Deep Dive into Ocean Worlds in Our Solar System (Live Public Talk)



Quote

Started streaming 2 minutes ago
“Follow the water” has long been the mantra of astrobiologists in search of life in the universe, as H2O remains the fundamental building block of all life as we know it. To truly understand the nature of possible ecosystems outside our planet, we must directly investigate the liquid water that our NASA missions have discovered within moons and planets across our solar system.

From Callisto and Ganymede to Enceladus, what could future exploration of these watery worlds look like?

Join us for a live talk where we’ll discuss the scientific allure of ocean worlds, how we might investigate the surface of these celestial bodies, and learn about robotic technologies being developed at JPL that could someday penetrate a frozen world’s icy shell to explore a vast ocean hidden beneath.

Speakers:
Dr. Cynthia Phillips, planetary geologist and Europa Clipper project staff scientist at NASA JPL
Dr. Benjamin Hockman, robotics technologist at NASA JPL

Host:
Gregory Smith, communications and education directorate at NASA JPL

Co-host:
Laurance Fauconnet, solar system public engagement lead at NASA JPL

NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory
« Last Edit: 09/20/2024 12:05 am by catdlr »
It's Tony De La Rosa, ...I don't create this stuff, I just report it.

Online Blackstar

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #864 on: 09/20/2024 02:03 am »
So I'm going to Florida to see this launch. Does anybody have the launch dates/times? I know the October 10 time, but not the rest.

Offline Remes

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #865 on: 09/20/2024 05:39 am »
So I'm going to Florida to see this launch. Does anybody have the launch dates/times? I know the October 10 time, but not the rest.

Oct 10, 2024 12:31 PM EDT

https://science.nasa.gov/mission/europa-clipper/launch-windows/


https://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/launches-and-events/events-calendar/2024/october/rocket-launch-spacex-falcon-heavy-europa-clipper#FeelTheHeat

Sold out. :( That was fast.
« Last Edit: 09/20/2024 05:58 am by Remes »

Offline duh

Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #866 on: 09/20/2024 03:58 pm »
100.000 chest x-rays radiation dose per fly by.

At the risk of being pedantic and showing my insular background, it is only recently (within the past few years) that I have learned that 100.000 is 1e+5 or one hundred thousand. It is also roughly in that same time frame that a billion could mean 1e+9 or 1e+12.

My initial reaction was why so much precision (decimal points) when expressing a number for number of x-rays that could be simply expressed as an integer. Then my impression changed significantly (to put it mildly) when I woke up to this representing 1e+5 xrays.

Stirs memories of a Mars probe unfortunately plunged into the Martian atmosphere to a catastrophic end when when group was using imperial units and another was using metric. Hmm, even that could be interesting if one group used cgs and the other used mks.


Offline deadman1204

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #867 on: 09/23/2024 02:20 pm »
At the risk of being pedantic and showing my insular background, it is only recently (within the past few years) that I have learned that 100.000 is 1e+5 or one hundred thousand. It is also roughly in that same time frame that a billion could mean 1e+9 or 1e+12.
This is one of those cases as an american where we can say the others are wrong heh.
British have this wierd thing where "billion" is a million, and visa versa.

However the root milli is latin for a thousand thousands - aka a million. Then as you count up, billion, trillion, quadrillion, ect, the prefix starts counting up directly as 2, 3, 4, ect.

Offline deadman1204

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #868 on: 09/24/2024 12:44 am »
How long is it estimated that Europa has been active? When did it fall into resonance with Gannymede? Because before that point it would've just been a frozen moon with no heat inside.

i just found an answer to this. The JPL Von Karmen lecture of this month is about Icy worlds. Dr Cynthia Phillips mentions that its thought Europa has had an ocean for most all its life - so ~4 billion years. Muy Interesante

edit: link to the lecture:
« Last Edit: 09/24/2024 12:46 am by deadman1204 »

Offline redliox

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #869 on: 09/25/2024 11:07 pm »
https://x.com/EuropaClipper/status/1839024890286059968
https://blogs.nasa.gov/europaclipper/
Quote
on NASA’s Europa Clipper Spacecraft
Technicians work to complete operations before propellant load occurs ahead of launch for NASA’s Europa Clipper spacecraft inside the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida on Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2024. Europa could have all the “ingredients” for life as we know it: water, organics, chemical energy, and stability. Europa Clipper’s launch period opens on October 10, 2024.
This image shows technicians working to complete operations prior to propellant load for NASA’s Europa Clipper spacecraft inside the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida on Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2024. Photo credit: NASA/Kim Shiflett
Technicians completed loading propellants in the agency’s Europa Clipper spacecraft on Sunday, Sept. 22, inside the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

Housed in the largest spacecraft NASA has ever built for a planetary mission, Europa Clipper’s propulsion module is an aluminum cylinder 10 feet (3 meters) long and 5 feet (1.5 meters) wide, and it holds the spacecraft’s array of 24 engines and 6067.6 pounds (2,752.2 kilograms) of propellant in two propulsion tanks, as well as the spacecraft’s helium pressurant tanks. The fuel and oxidizer held by the tanks will flow to the 24 engines, creating a controlled chemical reaction to produce thrust in space during its journey to determine whether there are places below the surface of Jupiter’s icy moon, Europa, that could support life.

After launch, the spacecraft plans to fly by Mars in February 2025, then back by Earth in December 2026, using the gravity of each planet to increase its momentum. With help of these “gravity assists,” Europa Clipper will achieve the velocity needed to reach Jupiter in April 2030.

NASA is targeting launch on Thursday, Oct. 10, aboard a Space X Falcon Heavy rocket from NASA Kennedy’s historic Launch Complex 39A.
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Online LouScheffer

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #870 on: 09/26/2024 03:50 am »
Quote
on NASA’s Europa Clipper Spacecraft
Technicians work to complete operations before propellant load occurs ahead of launch for NASA’s Europa Clipper spacecraft inside the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida on Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2024. Europa could have all the “ingredients” for life as we know it: water, organics, chemical energy, and stability. Europa Clipper’s launch period opens on October 10, 2024.
This image shows technicians working to complete operations prior to propellant load for NASA’s Europa Clipper spacecraft inside the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility at the agency’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida on Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2024. Photo credit: NASA/Kim Shiflett
Technicians completed loading propellants in the agency’s Europa Clipper spacecraft on Sunday, Sept. 22, inside the Payload Hazardous Servicing Facility at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

Housed in the largest spacecraft NASA has ever built for a planetary mission, Europa Clipper’s propulsion module is an aluminum cylinder 10 feet (3 meters) long and 5 feet (1.5 meters) wide, and it holds the spacecraft’s array of 24 engines and 6067.6 pounds (2,752.2 kilograms) of propellant in two propulsion tanks, as well as the spacecraft’s helium pressurant tanks. The fuel and oxidizer held by the tanks will flow to the 24 engines, creating a controlled chemical reaction to produce thrust in space during its journey to determine whether there are places below the surface of Jupiter’s icy moon, Europa, that could support life.

After launch, the spacecraft plans to fly by Mars in February 2025, then back by Earth in December 2026, using the gravity of each planet to increase its momentum. With help of these “gravity assists,” Europa Clipper will achieve the velocity needed to reach Jupiter in April 2030.

NASA is targeting launch on Thursday, Oct. 10, aboard a Space X Falcon Heavy rocket from NASA Kennedy’s historic Launch Complex 39A.
Technical nit-pick here.  I believe the Mars flyby will *decrease* Europa Clipper's momentum.  This places the periapsis inside the Earth's orbit, so when it returns to Earth it can profit from the Earth flyby.  This flyby more than compensates for the loss of momentum at Mars, by a ratio of about 4:1 .   Juno did exactly the same thing, but with a Deep Space Maneuver instead of a Mars flyby.

To get an intuitive feel for how this (counter-intuitive) maneuver works, imagine the limiting case of a deep space maneuver out somewhere past Pluto.  At this point, it takes an arbitrarily small delta-v to remove the angular momentum completely.  Now the spacecraft falls straight for the Sun.  When it reaches the Earth, it will be going very nearly the same speed it left (minus some tiny amount from the maneuver).  But then, if it makes a flyby with a 90 degree turn in the Earth's orbital direction, it gains 30 km/sec in the Solar reference frame.  So the tiny deep space burn was massively multiplied by the next orbital flyby. 

A deep space burn at about Mars orbit (or a Mars deflection) does not gain such a huge amount, but still gains about 4:1 in delta-V.

Offline redliox

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #871 on: 09/26/2024 05:57 am »
Technical nit-pick here.  I believe the Mars flyby will *decrease* Europa Clipper's momentum.  This places the periapsis inside the Earth's orbit, so when it returns to Earth it can profit from the Earth flyby.  This flyby more than compensates for the loss of momentum at Mars, by a ratio of about 4:1 .   Juno did exactly the same thing, but with a Deep Space Maneuver instead of a Mars flyby.

To get an intuitive feel for how this (counter-intuitive) maneuver works, imagine the limiting case of a deep space maneuver out somewhere past Pluto.  At this point, it takes an arbitrarily small delta-v to remove the angular momentum completely.  Now the spacecraft falls straight for the Sun.  When it reaches the Earth, it will be going very nearly the same speed it left (minus some tiny amount from the maneuver).  But then, if it makes a flyby with a 90 degree turn in the Earth's orbital direction, it gains 30 km/sec in the Solar reference frame.  So the tiny deep space burn was massively multiplied by the next orbital flyby. 

A deep space burn at about Mars orbit (or a Mars deflection) does not gain such a huge amount, but still gains about 4:1 in delta-V.

I noticed that too; more specifically, when I saw an animation of the Martian flyby the trajectory was moving opposite the Martian moons and towards the sunward, i.e. inward, side of Mars' orbit.  Ironically JUICE's Earth-Moon flyby did the same thing to orient it for a Venus flyby, so braking flybys popular of late but I do remember design concerns about minimizing deep space maneuvers.
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Offline Torten

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #872 on: 09/26/2024 10:54 am »
Really looking forward to this mission. Europa is a very curious body and after Mars is probably the most interesting exobiological site in the Solar system.

I'm hopeful that Europa Clipper will be able to withstand the radiation for long enough to get an extended mission, perhaps for further flybys of Europa, or a series of flybys in the reduced radiation enviroment around Callisto.

Offline redliox

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #873 on: 09/26/2024 04:44 pm »
Really looking forward to this mission. Europa is a very curious body and after Mars is probably the most interesting exobiological site in the Solar system.

I'm hopeful that Europa Clipper will be able to withstand the radiation for long enough to get an extended mission, perhaps for further flybys of Europa, or a series of flybys in the reduced radiation enviroment around Callisto.

Oh I agree, and have similar hopes for mission extensions. 

JUICE is supposed to do a series of Callisto flybys, although when I last read about those they'd be repetitive to the point that a strip of the moon gets most of the coverage; alot of intense study but the rest of Callisto might get neglected; I would like to think 'Clipper could image more of it during its main tour or extensions.

I'm slightly worried for the electronics, but there's enough confidence they'll hold at least for the main mission.  I wager a single mission extension of 2 years, like Galileo's GEM campaign, would be enough of a slight gamble.  Otherwise, I assume how much fuel leftover from the main mission would be the driver along with funding, of course.
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Offline vjkane

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #874 on: 09/26/2024 07:14 pm »
Oh I agree, and have similar hopes for mission extensions. 

JUICE is supposed to do a series of Callisto flybys, although when I last read about those they'd be repetitive to the point that a strip of the moon gets most of the coverage; alot of intense study but the rest of Callisto might get neglected; I would like to think 'Clipper could image more of it during its main tour or extensions.

I'm slightly worried for the electronics, but there's enough confidence they'll hold at least for the main mission.  I wager a single mission extension of 2 years, like Galileo's GEM campaign, would be enough of a slight gamble.  Otherwise, I assume how much fuel leftover from the main mission would be the driver along with funding, of course.

I think that any mission extensions will focus on Europa to both tighten the observation net and follow up on earlier discoveries. Might also include observations of Jupiter.

Not much point to adding science observations of Ganymede given that JUICE will orbit it nor Callisto given that a planned/approved Chinese mission will orbit it. Io is too deep in the radiation well, I suspect.

Offline redliox

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #875 on: 09/26/2024 09:40 pm »
Not much point to adding science observations of Ganymede given that JUICE will orbit it nor Callisto given that a planned/approved Chinese mission will orbit it. Io is too deep in the radiation well, I suspect.

I have mixed feelings about the Chinese, but still it'll expand knowledge and having 3 of 4 Galilean moons with massively updated maps is a scientific godsend.  It would be interesting when shielding becomes strong enough to handle Io, although I'd like to think flybys to investigate its plumes nowadays could be possible.

As for 'Clipper, is there any way to guess how much fuel could be leftover for an extension?
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Offline deadman1204

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #876 on: 09/27/2024 03:16 pm »
Not much point to adding science observations of Ganymede given that JUICE will orbit it nor Callisto given that a planned/approved Chinese mission will orbit it. Io is too deep in the radiation well, I suspect.

I have mixed feelings about the Chinese, but still it'll expand knowledge and having 3 of 4 Galilean moons with massively updated maps is a scientific godsend.  It would be interesting when shielding becomes strong enough to handle Io, although I'd like to think flybys to investigate its plumes nowadays could be possible.

As for 'Clipper, is there any way to guess how much fuel could be leftover for an extension?
I imagine it depends on how well launch and insertion goes. Remember jwst? it has more fuel than expected because Ariane 5 did such a perfect insertion.

Offline redliox

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #877 on: 09/29/2024 09:40 pm »
Falcon 9's grounded for a bit; any chance we should worry for 'Clipper's ride?
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Offline MDMoery

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #878 on: 09/29/2024 10:16 pm »
Falcon 9's grounded for a bit; any chance we should worry for 'Clipper's ride?

I would think that an interplanetary trajectory would not have to worry about second stage disposal on Earth.

Offline theinternetftw

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Re: Europa Clipper
« Reply #879 on: 09/29/2024 10:26 pm »
I would think that an interplanetary trajectory would not have to worry about second stage disposal on Earth.

The problem is that the second stage in question had a problem with its second burn (which just happened to be its disposal burn). The Europa Clipper launch has two S2 burns (ascent/orbit insertion, and Earth departure burn), so ostensibly the same problem could surface in the later burn the Clipper launch performs. That's even assuming the problem is limited to later burns of the second stage, as opposed to it not affecting the first burn purely due to luck.

As far as timeline impacts go, the Clipper launch window is from October 10th to November 6th (that extension into November is relatively recent, due to improved Falcon Heavy performance.)

There will probably be more on the stoppage and RTF going forward in the Europa Clipper launch thread and the Crew 9 launch thread (Crew 9 is the mission on which the deorbit burn was off nominal.)

Edit: Misread the number of burns. Parking orbit insertion is combined with initial ascent, thus two S2 burns total, not three.
« Last Edit: 09/30/2024 05:07 pm by theinternetftw »

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