Quote from: john smith 19 on 01/03/2017 07:20 amI guess what I'm trying to say is what is so bad about living anywhere on Earth that only moving to another planet will fix it?Do you believe that's the only possible situation that would motivate someone to move to Mars?
I guess what I'm trying to say is what is so bad about living anywhere on Earth that only moving to another planet will fix it?
This is a weird debate: the people who want to go vs the people who cannot imagine anyone wanting to go
That being said, I won't be going. Life is going well enough that barring event that makes it impossible to physically or morally raise my family here on earth, we will be sticking around. I am fully prepared to support my or someone else's kids going though. Whether by using EloNet as my ISP, passing a few dollars to amazon, or some likeable individual's goFundme page.
Oh I'm sure a lot of people want to go, at first. But when the hype is over and no fame awaits anymore,
and Mars proves to be a rather unattractive place to live, who's still going to pay 500k to live there forever?
I'm just saying that idealism won't do it in the long term.
The intrigue of Mars is, it's Mars. What you can do on Mars that you can't do on Earth is: 1) Study Mars up close, run experiments, etc. Including studying old life if found, or why life didn't form..
2) Try new things like planet terraforming,
colony building on a different planet, and experiments in new forms of government that may not be possible given the space is all taken up on Earth.
And finally, every new frontier generates it's own energy which creates new forms of growth. Travel to Mars will be no different, creating or fostering new industries and new possibilities.
Mars being an economy that pays for itself is not an issue really.
Most of the $$$ for Mars will be spent on Earth to suppliers and "shippers".
Deep pockets will pay for the up-keep (either personal fortunes, companies, governments and combinations of above).
When the economics of going change with new technology like ITS, people will go, then this becomes a poll for the departing passengers.
Quote from: KelvinZero on 01/03/2017 08:44 amThis is a weird debate: the people who want to go vs the people who cannot imagine anyone wanting to go Oh I'm sure a lot of people want to go, at first. But when the hype is over and no fame awaits anymore, and Mars proves to be a rather unattractive place to live
Musk does not think there is anything that is valuable enough to justify the shipping costs.
The fact that Musk makes offhand remarks all the time, some of which he walks back? Irrelevant. The fact that many other people ran numbers disproving it? Irrelevant.
So maybe folks will decide to go because they want to and can physically, emotionally and financially have the ability to go. An interesting question is how long might a moderately well off middle aged person be able to stay on Mars. To that end, I created a table that has so many assumptions: - $160k (adjusted for 4% inflation) net cost of staying on Mars which may represent very expensive shopping from Earth that gets delivered every few years, plus expenses incurred on planet. wiith Arrival on or around 2032. This person may remain cash positive until they are 84 years old. See the graphic below.
The prospect of sending money home from comparatively high paying jobs in distant places motivates a lot of people in the current world economy.Other than few space tourists who paid tens of millions for the privelege, no one has ever traveled in space as a free agent, not an employee of a government. There is no reference for the market price of labor in such circumstances. I'm suggesting it's extremely high compared to anywhere on earth. The cost of living will also be extremely high but a frugal Mars settler might be able to remit six figure sums back to the folks at home on a regular basis.
Not forgetting the 298 objects over 3.9m in diameter that made it to Mars surface last year
[planet terraforming]This looks to be completely off the table as a) It violates "planetary protection" rules
based in the US under US Federal law.
with a very significant fee up front
Eg. Having children is a strong drive. Deeply rooted in biology. It isn't a general thought process, it's specific to having kids. It isn't a general mechanism that can apply to anything else.Likewise, exploration is a drive for some people. But exploration isn't colonisation. Adventure is also a pull for some, but settling isn't adventure. (It's the opposite, it's the thing you do when you're all adventured out.)