Author Topic: LIVE: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 12, 2017  (Read 154259 times)

Offline SmallKing

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #260 on: 11/11/2017 11:57 am »
Maybe it is very common in US, Chinese launches have never been delayed by ships or aircrafts
Some are bound for happiness, some are bound to glory, some are bound to live with less, who can tell your story?

Offline centaurinasa

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #261 on: 11/11/2017 12:04 pm »
Cygnus spacecraft back to external ground supplied power.
To boldly go where no human has gone before !

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #262 on: 11/11/2017 12:15 pm »
Yeah, countries famous for their excellent safety cultures. Shoot the culprit hasn't proven it's effectiveness yet. Several things had to go wrong here. The NOTAM system is a mess. I don't know when it was implemented, probably during WW2 or something. I guess it made sense back then.

While I agree somewhat with you and I wouldn't live in a non-democratic country, there are certain cases in the Western World that really make me amused and even angry. The first time when I openly disagreed with how  things were being handled was when the Swine influenza became widespread in 2009, and borders weren't closed. The second time was during the refugee crisis in Europe (I'm living a country that's considered a hot-spot). And the third time is when flight violations aren't punished harshly enough.

This is just my opinion. Yes, I wouldn't live in China, but in our Western world, we have to agree that too much of a good thing isn't good at all. 

Right now we have an airplane pilot that violated safety rules. This shouldn't be left without consequences. Being a pilot is a responsible job. There need to be harsher punishments, not just fines.

Again, this is my opinion.

Offline centaurinasa

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #263 on: 11/11/2017 12:15 pm »
To boldly go where no human has gone before !

Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #264 on: 11/11/2017 12:22 pm »
Has anyone posted today's NOTAMs to the thread?  I took a quick look back at the earlier pages and didn't find them.

(See catdlr's FlightAware screen-caps up-thread.)

Has anyone confirmed that this JetBlu flight was in the NOTAM during the NOTAM duration?

I wonder if the fact that the flight departed Santiago, Dominican Republic  late, and is anticipated to arrive at Boston Logan late, is a factor?  They should have been beyond the the NOTAM area at launch time, if the flight was on-time.  If someone NOTAM searched with too restrictive a time duration, maybe they would have never seen the NOTAM?  Even so, that's still shoddy research.
***

If the NOTAM violation could be confirmed, then maybe a local reporter should get themselves out to Boston Logan and pursue the story when the flight arrives?

(Interviewing the passengers exiting the terminal would be of human-interest, but pointless for gathering information.

One probably wouldn't be allowed to interview the flight crew, and if they're smart, they wouldn't want to talk to reporters.  However, even "no comment, block the camera" video footage has some drama value.

However, maybe one could swing an interview with a Boston ATC supervisor?

A thought--I know; it will not happen.)
« Last Edit: 11/11/2017 12:35 pm by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline Lar

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #265 on: 11/11/2017 12:38 pm »
I think that assumes that this is newsworthy to general interest media. The specialised space coverage outfits may not have someone local ( and no funding to hire a stringer)... but I'm just guessing. Some of our members that work in the media might know better.
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Offline Chris Bergin

Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #266 on: 11/11/2017 12:42 pm »
Jet Blue is off the hook. Told it was a small plane, VFR, a few miles offshore, was not answering FAA warnings.  Bad pilot.


--

PS Let's keep it on this launch and scrub, not political stuff.
« Last Edit: 11/11/2017 12:49 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #267 on: 11/11/2017 12:43 pm »
A shot to help ease the frustration:

Quote
what a beautiful Antares launch it would have been this morning. here was my view just before sunrise at the press site.

next attempt tomorrow morning

https://twitter.com/trevormahlmann/status/929341292961828864

Offline KDH

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #268 on: 11/11/2017 12:51 pm »
Small GA planes can have GPS satnavs that are linked to the NOTAM system which flash up warnings in flight if you are going to violate a NOTAM.  Simple ones run on iPads and cost about $200 per year subscription.  You would normally upload the NOTAMs when doing your pre-flight planning.  However if you are old school you don't bother with any of that nonsense and just take off.  Plus you don't have to talk to ATC after you have taken off and left your ATZ - not that this is a good idea!

So quite easy to bust restricted airspace if you don't do your pre-flight checks or talk to ATC.

There is no way it would have been a large commercial plane as they have much more advanced systems than GA planes plus they will be flying IR and be under instruction from ATC.

Offline input~2

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #269 on: 11/11/2017 01:10 pm »
NOTAMs for to-morrow:

!CARF 11/045 (KZDC A0197/17)  ZDC AIRSPACE DCC ANTARES OA-8 STNR ALT RESERVATION WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 3757N07527W TO 3800N07514W TO 3759N07512W TO 3751N07517W TO 3757N07527W TO POINT OF ORIGIN AND WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 3750N07531W TO 3728N07539W TO 3723N07530W TO 3742N07530W TO 3739N07531W TO 3750N07531W TO POINT OF ORIGIN AND WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 3702N07502W TO 3705N07436W TO 3647N07436W TO 3648N07452W TO 3702N07502W TO POINT OF ORIGIN SFC-UNL 1711121200-1711121300

!CARF 11/046 (KZNY A0352/17)  ZNY AIRSPACE DCC ANTARES OA-8 STNR ALT RESERVATION WI AN AREA DEFINED AS 2846N06208W TO 3052N06420W TO 2907N06631W TO 2701N06420W TO 2846N06208W TO POINT OF ORIGIN SFC-UNL 1711121200-1711121300
« Last Edit: 11/11/2017 01:22 pm by input~2 »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #270 on: 11/11/2017 01:10 pm »
Quote
Forecast for Nov. 12: 90 Percent Favorable

Aside from the slight chance of cloud ceilings at 2,000 feet for Sunday morning’s launch attempt, conditions look excellent with no real weather concerns at this time. The Wallops range forecast is 90 percent favorable.

Canadian high pressure will ridge over the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic states today with dry and unseasonably cold conditions. The area of high pressure will remain over the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic states through Sunday morning’s launch attempt, before sliding off the coast Sunday afternoon. The low-level stratus cloudiness off the Wallops coastline this morning will remain off the Wallops coastline today. As the area of high pressure begins to slide off the Northeast coastline Sunday morning, there is a slight chance of the low-level stratus moving onshore over the Wallops Region Sunday morning.

The launch of Orbital ATK’s Antares rocket carrying the Cygnus cargo spacecraft was scrubbed for Nov. 11 after an aircraft was detected in the vicinity of the launch pad. The next launch attempt is set for Sunday, Nov. 12. The five-minute launch window opens at 7:14 a.m. EST.

Author Rob GarnerPosted on November 11, 2017Categories Antares, Cygnus, Orbital ATK

https://blogs.nasa.gov/orbital/2017/11/11/forecast-for-nov-12-90-percent-favorable/

Offline A12

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #271 on: 11/11/2017 01:14 pm »
Jet Blue is off the hook. Told it was a small plane, VFR, a few miles offshore, was not answering FAA warnings.  Bad pilot.

Maybe it is the one visibile on the flightaware screenshot below the islands.

Offline grythumn

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #272 on: 11/11/2017 02:32 pm »
Everyone at the Old Ferry thought it was a bigger plane west of us, fairly close.

Fairly crowded... need to get there earlier tomorrow.

-Bob

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #273 on: 11/11/2017 02:38 pm »
Quote
Orbital ATK‏ Verified account @OrbitalATK

We have confirmed that the aircraft that aborted today's launch attempt was a small aircraft flying at about 500ft approximately 6 miles offshore.

https://twitter.com/OrbitalATK/status/929363384079994880

Offline ZachS09

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #274 on: 11/11/2017 03:40 pm »
I hope that today’s scrub is not a bad omen for tomorrow’s attempt. I mean, the launch ending in an explosion shortly after liftoff.  :-\
Liftoff for St. Jude's! Go Dragon, Go Falcon, Godspeed Inspiration4!

Offline rayleighscatter

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #275 on: 11/11/2017 03:43 pm »
Everyone at the Old Ferry thought it was a bigger plane west of us, fairly close.

Fairly crowded... need to get there earlier tomorrow.

-Bob
I was there too, but can't make the round trip again tomorrow. Bummer.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #276 on: 11/11/2017 05:05 pm »
I'd place odds on this: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N16365
TCAS and ADS-B were activated. Given the airport the plane flew out of the plane was likely operating on UNICOM/CTAF via either 122.725 MHz, 122.8 MHz, 122.975 MHz, 123.050 MHz, and 123.075 MHz.

Scanner sites if you go back to the hour of the incident violated TFR's and would provide the ARTCC controller discussion with the pilot.

ADS-B position tracking for N16365: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N16365/history/20171111/1207Z/tracklog
UNICOM/CTAF: https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/air-traffic-services-process-brief-changing-unicom-frequencies
« Last Edit: 11/11/2017 05:09 pm by russianhalo117 »

Offline JAFO

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #277 on: 11/11/2017 05:13 pm »
Even the stuff I fly doesn't get real-time or graphic NOTAM depictions, but some bizjets might, and the experimental/kitplane I'm building with a Dynon Skyview will.
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Online AnalogMan

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #278 on: 11/11/2017 05:40 pm »
Looking Ahead: OA-8 Launch Milestones on Nov. 12
Rob Garner - November 11, 2017

On Nov. 12 Orbital ATK will launch its Cygnus spacecraft aboard an Antares rocket on a journey to the International Space Station from NASA’s Wallops Flight Facility on Virginia’s Eastern Shore. The five-minute launch window opens at 7:14 a.m. EST. Cygnus is carrying 7,400 pounds of crew supplies, hardware and scientific research equipment.

Milestones (Approximate Timing)

    12:50 a.m. EST — live video of the launch pad airs on Wallops’ Ustream
    6:45 a.m. — live launch commentary airs on NASA TV
    7:14 a.m. — five-minute launch window opens
    Launch + 3.7 seconds — liftoff
    L+ 3 min., 34 sec. — main engine cutoff (MECO)
    L+ 3 min., 40 sec. — first stage separation
    L+ 4 min., 11 sec. — fairing separtaion
    L+ 4 min., 16 sec. — interstage separtaion
    L+ 4 min., 24 sec. — second stage ignition
    L+ 7 min., 6 sec. — second stage burnout; orbit insertion
    L+ 9 min., 6 sec. — Cygnus  spacecraft separates — 121.3 miles altitude; 16,846 mph

https://blogs.nasa.gov/orbital/2017/11/11/looking-ahead-oa-8-launch-milestones-on-nov-12

Offline flyright

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Re: SCRUB: Cygnus OA-8 - Antares - November 11, 2017
« Reply #279 on: 11/11/2017 06:13 pm »
I'd place odds on this: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N16365
TCAS and ADS-B were activated. Given the airport the plane flew out of the plane was likely operating on UNICOM/CTAF via either 122.725 MHz, 122.8 MHz, 122.975 MHz, 123.050 MHz, and 123.075 MHz.

Scanner sites if you go back to the hour of the incident violated TFR's and would provide the ARTCC controller discussion with the pilot.

ADS-B position tracking for N16365: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N16365/history/20171111/1207Z/tracklog
UNICOM/CTAF: https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/advocacy-briefs/air-traffic-services-process-brief-changing-unicom-frequencies

It appears to me this plane was west of the restricted airspace and not the culprit.
Also, the flight track was at 2000 feet altitude, not 500 feet.
My guess, this was someone looking to get pictures of the launch and staying well clear of restricted space.
I don't think FlightAware is a good tool for tracking small aircraft, at 500' altitude and 6 miles offshore.



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