Author Topic: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 22 : Discussion  (Read 544471 times)

Online Chris Bergin

New thread (22) for discussion of the Starship (and Booster) prototypes being built in Boca Chica, Texas.  Previous posts on these prototypes can be found in these threads:

Discussion 1

Discussion 2

Discussion 3

Discussion 4

Discussion 5

Discussion 6

Discussion 7

Discussion 8

Discussion 9

Discussion 10

Discussion 11

Discussion 12

Discussion 13

Discussion 14

Discussion 15

Discussion 16

Discussion 17

Discussion 18

Discussion 19

Discussion 20

Discussion 21

Thread 22 - you're in it!

UPDATES:

SpaceX BFS : Phase 2 - Starship Orbital Prototype(s) - Photos and Updates -3 (Previous)

SpaceX Boca Chica - Production Updates - MASTER Thread (4)

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Online Eer

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So, B3 static fire success. No evident residual fire after shutdown.

Couldn’t see much in the way of obvious hints of just when the static fire would occur…no obvious trivent, nor obvious pulsing of venting just before fire. So speak up if you saw things to watch for next time.

Edit: I put this here because I don’t see a prototype booster topic to use instead.
« Last Edit: 07/20/2021 12:33 am by Eer »
From "The Rhetoric of Interstellar Flight", by Paul Gilster, March 10, 2011: We’ll build a future in space one dogged step at a time, and when asked how long humanity will struggle before reaching the stars, we’ll respond, “As long as it takes.”

Offline cpushack

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So, B3 static fire success. No evident residual fire after shutdown.

Couldn’t see much in the way of obvious hints of just when the static fire would occur…no obvious trivent, nor obvious pulsing of venting just before fire. So speak up if you saw things to watch for next time.

No header tanks helps simplify the process no doubt.  Its very encouraging to see the static fire to work the very first try as well.

Offline Pete

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I like how the apparent reliability/maturity of the Raptors and the support equipment is improving.

Here we just had a test of three Raptors firing together, on a new vehicle with all-new plumbing and wiring, and it worked first try with no apparent issues.

That's a big step forward from the earlier static fire tests on the Starship where repeated delays, engine swapouts, more delays, aborts, and fires both big and small were so common.

Offline hallmh

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The guys on the NSF feed also commented that there was no 'honk' when the Raptors shut down. That's another sign of problem-solving and improvement.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/bccarcounters/status/1417406141517160452

Quote
Fueling startet at 6:37:52 - You can see the Right pipe suddenly becoming very frosty and skirt vent starts 5 seconds later.

Credit: @NASASpaceflight

twitter.com/bccarcounters/status/1417407498143817751

Quote
Also this vent might be a good new indicator for engine chill. Starts together with the vent increase from the bottom and shows the same kind of startup behavior we saw with tri on starship.

https://twitter.com/bccarcounters/status/1417407935580364807

Quote
Which puts me at the believe that the original T-0 before a hold was 6:58 locals time.

Wanna confirm or deny @elonmusk ?

Offline Slarty1080

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I like how the apparent reliability/maturity of the Raptors and the support equipment is improving.

Here we just had a test of three Raptors firing together, on a new vehicle with all-new plumbing and wiring, and it worked first try with no apparent issues.

That's a big step forward from the earlier static fire tests on the Starship where repeated delays, engine swapouts, more delays, aborts, and fires both big and small were so common.
Yes! and as well as the hardware improvements, it appears that the SpaceX engineering team have now built up a critical mass of experience with Raptor, the GSE and all of the set up processes.
My optimistic hope is that it will become cool to really think about things... rather than just doing reactive bullsh*t based on no knowledge (Brian Cox)

Offline capoman

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I like how the apparent reliability/maturity of the Raptors and the support equipment is improving.

Here we just had a test of three Raptors firing together, on a new vehicle with all-new plumbing and wiring, and it worked first try with no apparent issues.

That's a big step forward from the earlier static fire tests on the Starship where repeated delays, engine swapouts, more delays, aborts, and fires both big and small were so common.
Yes! and as well as the hardware improvements, it appears that the SpaceX engineering team have now built up a critical mass of experience with Raptor, the GSE and all of the set up processes.

Agree totally.

Iterative development in action. SpaceX has retired a lot of unknowns and risk and applied them to the Booster. Booster is actually simpler than Starship, one reason they made it look so easy, but it was all due to previous Starship and Raptor testing. Great job SpaceX! One step closer....

Offline ppb

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I like how the apparent reliability/maturity of the Raptors and the support equipment is improving.

Here we just had a test of three Raptors firing together, on a new vehicle with all-new plumbing and wiring, and it worked first try with no apparent issues.

That's a big step forward from the earlier static fire tests on the Starship where repeated delays, engine swapouts, more delays, aborts, and fires both big and small were so common.
Yes! and as well as the hardware improvements, it appears that the SpaceX engineering team have now built up a critical mass of experience with Raptor, the GSE and all of the set up processes.

Agree totally.

Iterative development in action. SpaceX has retired a lot of unknowns and risk and applied them to the Booster. Booster is actually simpler than Starship, one reason they made it look so easy, but it was all due to previous Starship and Raptor testing. Great job SpaceX! One step closer....
Recall Elon planned for this learning curve transition to booster development when he stated in his briefing a few years ago why they would start first with the Starship. But application of those lessons from the latter to the former was only possible because of the fantastic system engineering design decisions early on, such as two stage to orbit, stainless steel materials, common engines, etc. Watching the evolution has been a dream for anyone that’s been paying attention, particularly those of us with engineering experience.

Offline Alberto-Girardi

I agree with y'all. It is good to see the maturation and how spacex is gettin better, and it make me confident that they will do an orbital flight soon. it took several prototypes to get the first full scale ship, but it may took only one prototype to get a full booster.
I want to become an Aerospace Engineer!

Offline alugobi

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 22 : Discussion
« Reply #10 on: 07/20/2021 07:54 pm »
Raptor pics from the latest update show how much tidier and organized are all the plumbing and wiring harnesses. 

Offline AstroDave

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 22 : Discussion
« Reply #11 on: 07/20/2021 08:09 pm »
The guys on the NSF feed also commented that there was no 'honk' when the Raptors shut down. That's another sign of problem-solving and improvement.

  Has the "honk" ever been identified as to what that sound is/was? The honk's absence definitely stood out from video coverage, but I have never heard/read commentary on what produces that sound. If having honk absent is a good thing, kudos to a smooth test run.

Offline FlattestEarth

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 22 : Discussion
« Reply #12 on: 07/20/2021 10:16 pm »
Raptor pics from the latest update show how much tidier and organized are all the plumbing and wiring harnesses.

Yeah that boost aka r2 looks clean and production ready with its no gimbal casting.

Offline Gliderflyer

The guys on the NSF feed also commented that there was no 'honk' when the Raptors shut down. That's another sign of problem-solving and improvement.

  Has the "honk" ever been identified as to what that sound is/was? The honk's absence definitely stood out from video coverage, but I have never heard/read commentary on what produces that sound. If having honk absent is a good thing, kudos to a smooth test run.
In general it can be caused by multiple things, from a slight instability during a transient, to a normal sound caused by a gas shutdown purge. I don't think anyone has determined (for sure) if it is "good" or "bad" for Raptor.
I tried it at home

Offline gaballard

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 22 : Discussion
« Reply #14 on: 07/20/2021 11:44 pm »
Spied on the new engine turbopumps...
"The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible." - Clarke's Second Law

Offline Qau4

Uh why are they sleeving S21 aft dome with a booster aft section

Photo credit: Mary
If you’re arguing about flying metal tubes then maybe you should rethink your life.

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 22 : Discussion
« Reply #16 on: 07/21/2021 02:51 am »
Uh why are they sleeving S21 aft dome with a booster aft section

Photo credit: Mary
Obviously to see if we are paying attention. they could also simplify interfaces by doing so or they are just temporarily getting it out of the way or a test article et cetera.

Offline edzieba

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 22 : Discussion
« Reply #17 on: 07/21/2021 01:40 pm »
Uh why are they sleeving S21 aft dome with a booster aft section

Photo credit: Mary
Normal reason: Getting some extra practice in with two parts that would otherwise be going to scrapping anyway.

Suspicious reason: New test tank to see if a common aft cylinder section can be used for both Starship and Super Heavy aft domes for manufacturing streamlining.

Stop-chugging-the-RP1 reason: Three-stage vehicle stack with a 32-engine Super Heavy booster, a 3-Raptor/3-Rvac second stage, and a Starship upper stage.

Offline RotoSequence

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 22 : Discussion
« Reply #18 on: 07/21/2021 01:51 pm »
Uh why are they sleeving S21 aft dome with a booster aft section

Photo credit: Mary

Maybe its a multi-purpose structural test article: for validation of the Vacuum Raptor dome, and validation of the 20 engine outer ring structure.

Offline meekGee

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 22 : Discussion
« Reply #19 on: 07/21/2021 04:21 pm »
Uh why are they sleeving S21 aft dome with a booster aft section

Photo credit: Mary
Normal reason: Getting some extra practice in with two parts that would otherwise be going to scrapping anyway.

Suspicious reason: New test tank to see if a common aft cylinder section can be used for both Starship and Super Heavy aft domes for manufacturing streamlining.

Stop-chugging-the-RP1 reason: Three-stage vehicle stack with a 32-engine Super Heavy booster, a 3-Raptor/3-Rvac second stage, and a Starship upper stage.
Option 4:  an oops moment.
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

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