SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 14 : Discussion

[Chris Bergin]

New thread (14) for discussion of the Starship prototype being built in Boca Chica, Texas.  Previous posts on these prototypes can be found in these threads:

Discussion 1

Discussion 2

Discussion 3

Discussion 4

Discussion 5

Discussion 6

Discussion 7

Discussion 8

Discussion 9

Discussion 10

Discussion 11

Discussion 12

Discussion 13 (Previous)

Thread 14 - you're in it!

UPDATES:

SpaceX BFS : Phase 2 - Starship Orbital Prototype(s) - Photos and Updates -3 (Previous)

SpaceX Boca Chica - Production Updates - MASTER Thread (4) (New/Current)

Starship SN8 Test Launch - UPDATES (New/Current).

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RULES

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[nameUnavailabl]

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=52205.msg2159367#msg2159367

The pipe's diameter is larger than [the downcomer's bottom section on] the thrust puck sitting next to them.

[nameUnavailabl]

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=52205.msg2159367#msg2159367

The pipe's diameter is larger than [the downcomer's bottom section on] the thrust puck sitting next to them.

[WiresMN]

This is the second thrust puck we have seen utilizing this configuration and there a few SS's in the works that need thrust domes, so my money is on another puck for a SS. EM stated a few days ago that there were bigger changes coming for SS15 and above.

[nameUnavailabl]

Yes, the puck is for SS, maybe for SN16 as one with the same design has already arrived earlier.

And the pipes for SH downcomer.

MAYBE, this is what was holding SH stacking.
And as this is not in the whole one piece which can be because they might stack them while stacking each barrel section of LOX tank for easeness.

Let's wait and watch.

[gsa]

Sorry to interrupt this heated flamy/melty discussion.
Is there a nosecone access hatch on SN9? Couldn't find it on any of pictures.

I guess this photo answers my question.
It also implies that SN9's nosecone is welded only from the outside.

[magnemoe]

Repeating an question do they need an methane header tank with the larger downcommer?
Having just an pipe with an valve on top will simplify stuff, for one you don't have too pump liquid methane from the main tank to the headers as the top of the old header tank was above the valves between main and header tank.
The LOX header tank is separate and you can always pump to top it up

[Okie_Steve]

Probably better asked on the engineering thread.

[xvel]

Repeating an question do they need an methane header tank with the larger downcommer?
Having just an pipe with an valve on top will simplify stuff, for one you don't have too pump liquid methane from the main tank to the headers as the top of the old header tank was above the valves between main and header tank.
The LOX header tank is separate and you can always pump to top it up

probably:

[Crispy]

Repeating an question do they need an methane header tank with the larger downcommer?
Having just an pipe with an valve on top will simplify stuff, for one you don't have too pump liquid methane from the main tank to the headers as the top of the old header tank was above the valves between main and header tank.
The LOX header tank is separate and you can always pump to top it up

probably:

Ah, but:

[vaporcobra]

As someone noted, Super Heavy needs much taller transfer tubes but... two tubes with a larger diameter were delivered SpaceX probably isn't going to ship a narrow, thin ~40m metal tube in one piece. Much more reasonable to, say, ship multiple segments from Hawthorne and complete the final weld or two after delivery.

[Paul_G]

Ah, but:

When you fire up the engines using the closed off downcommer, would you be able to pressurise it enough so that you don’t collapse the downcommer when you start sucking fuel? By keeping the header tank it seems easier to manage autogenous pressurization.

[Paul_G]

Sorry to interrupt this heated flamy/melty discussion.
Is there a nosecone access hatch on SN9? Couldn't find it on any of pictures.

I guess this photo answers my question.
It also implies that SN9's nosecone is welded only from the outside.

In todays video from Mary, at around the 3:13 mark, there seems to be one of those wide yellow forced air vent tubes going in to a hole on the right hand side of the worker at a slightly higher level - could there be an access hatch on the side?

[RoboGoofers]

As someone noted, Super Heavy needs much taller transfer tubes but... two tubes with a larger diameter were delivered SpaceX probably isn't going to ship a narrow, thin ~40m metal tube in one piece. Much more reasonable to, say, ship multiple segments from Hawthorne and complete the final weld or two after delivery.

I don't understand why they need the downcomers preassembled at all. Is welding stainless pipe segments different from the rest of the stainless welding they're doing?

[aip]

I don't understand why they need the downcomers preassembled at all. Is welding stainless pipe segments different from the rest of the stainless welding they're doing?

I think the Boca Chica build site is best thought of as an assembly location, where the largest pieces possible are received and assembled into a Starship. The less work done at the site, the better, reducing the work required by the limited number of people that can work at the build site.

The only way to triple the number of people working on the Starship project is to outsource work. Even if they acquire every lot in Boca Chica, tripling the parking lot size AND the number of work stations just isn't possible at the site. But there are many oil & gas manufacturers in Texas with millions of square feet of under-utilized shop space that can build parts to spec for SpaceX.

[Kang54]

International interest is high (article by yours truly in today's edition of Danish newspaper Politiken)...

This looks interesting! I might have to buy a copy of Politiken tomorrow .

[TomH]

Business Insider article re the Environmental approvals given to SX in 2014 for Boca Chica, how progress at BC has deviated from the original plan, and discussion on whether environmental issues will become impediments before SS/SH can go orbital:

https://www.businessinsider.com/spacex-faa-boca-chica-texas-environmental-impact-statement-written-reevaluation-2020-10

[[email protected]]

Sorry to interrupt this heated flamy/melty discussion.
Is there a nosecone access hatch on SN9? Couldn't find it on any of pictures.

I guess this photo answers my question.
It also implies that SN9's nosecone is welded only from the outside.

I had found the fairing hatch location (© Bocachicagal). They had to welded the stiffners connecting two sections on the inside

[gsa]

Is there a nosecone access hatch on SN9? Couldn't find it on any of pictures.

I guess this photo answers my question.

In todays video from Mary, at around the 3:13 mark, there seems to be one of those wide yellow forced air vent tubes going in to a hole on the right hand side of the worker at a slightly higher level - could there be an access hatch on the side?

It also implies that SN9's nosecone is welded only from the outside.

I had found the fairing hatch location (© Bocachicagal). They had to welded the stiffners connecting two sections on the inside

I think you both are right. I've already seen it in today's video also. Guess they couldn't decide which side to make the hatch on, so they did markings twice.
One thing is certain: the hatch was made inside the high bay. We've seen that spot many times before, it was empty.

[OTV Booster]

As someone noted, Super Heavy needs much taller transfer tubes but... two tubes with a larger diameter were delivered SpaceX probably isn't going to ship a narrow, thin ~40m metal tube in one piece. Much more reasonable to, say, ship multiple segments from Hawthorne and complete the final weld or two after delivery.

It's hard to tell the length of that flatbed. Standard is 53ft (16.2m) but Texas allows 57ft (17.4m) trailers. Those tubes (4 actually) are ~.5m short of the tail end of the trailer and far enough from the front to leave room for the cone. The front tube on the far side is shorter than the others to help make room.

How solid is that 40m downcomer length? That's not the type of freight that would be stacked without more substantial crating. If we see at least one more segment ship in I'd say it's a lock on it being the SH downcomer.

Photo from BCG