Author Topic: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion  (Read 531129 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

New thread for discussion of the Starship prototype being built in Boca Chica, Texas.  Previous posts on these prototypes can be found in these threads:

Discussion 1

Discussion 2

Discussion 3

Discussion 4

Discussion 5

Discussion 6

Discussion 7

Discussion 8

Discussion 9

Discussion 10

Discussion 11

Discussion 12

SpaceX BFS : Phase 2 - Starship Orbital Prototype(s) - Photos and Updates -1

SpaceX BFS : Phase 2 - Starship Orbital Prototype(s) - Photos and Updates -3 (Latest)

SpaceX Texas launch site Discussion and Updates - Thread 10

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Offline CardBoardBoxProcessor

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So these obviously line up wiht the SPMTs holes. implying it can't go on top of them. We've seen SS can ride on the backs of SPMTs though. maybe SH cannot? But the metal is so much thicker than you'd assume it has to be.

Are rumors this is the base of the stacking crane correct? if so does that mean it is totally mobile and maybe disassemble??
With such a huge rocket you'd probably need ti to be mobile and move away from the rocket. But are there any other cranes that can move like this via SPMTs?   

Offline Framryk

Curses! As I was about to post, it moves to a new thread!  :o

Replying to the SPMT discussions (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=51736.msg2147775#msg2147775), we use a SPMT and transport frame. It's not part of the SPMT but is a bolted seismically qualified frame the SPMT moves under and lifts. There are clamps on the frame to secure a tall cylindrical load. It helps spread the load and the advantage is no crane needed, plus if the SPMT breaks down, you can lower it, tow it out of the way, and use the backup SPMT. Probably too small for SH or SS but I thought I'd share the concept.

Offline CardBoardBoxProcessor

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So you could theoretically assemble some sort of large mobile crane atop this?

Offline BlackholeLP

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Why would they assemble their own custom SPMT crane when they already have several cranes on site, and can seemingly rent as many as they want?

Especially considering that the SPMTs are presumably also rented items.

Offline eriblo

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So you could theoretically assemble some sort of large mobile crane atop this?
Sure, but there is currently nothing to suggest that this has anything to do with a crane. The gantry/bridge crane comments were likely due to those first seeing "large steel beams with fittings" going towards the High Bay not immediately recognizing how they fit together.

Offline Vonbraun

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Curses! As I was about to post, it moves to a new thread!  :o

Replying to the SPMT discussions (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=51736.msg2147775#msg2147775), we use a SPMT and transport frame. It's not part of the SPMT but is a bolted seismically qualified frame the SPMT moves under and lifts. There are clamps on the frame to secure a tall cylindrical load. It helps spread the load and the advantage is no crane needed, plus if the SPMT breaks down, you can lower it, tow it out of the way, and use the backup SPMT. Probably too small for SH or SS but I thought I'd share the concept.

I bet it will carry the starships to/from the launchpad. Currently they need to have crane on both sites at the time of transport, but if its loaded on the attachment platform prior, it can be picked up at any given time reducing the operational complexity/overhead.

Cranes are only needed to lift the rocket onto a transfer frame and the launch mount.
Once on a frame the roll lifts can move it at will but removing the need for a crane after landing will be a help.
I think its a need to lower the center of gravity towards the ground and that will help with head room in the High bay.

It also might be the start of a de-fueling rig for the landing pad.

Offline CardBoardBoxProcessor

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I agreed that it is not likely a crane. And obviously, not a gantry crane and those that think it is are not logical thinkers.

However, a large mobile tower crane is not out of the realm of possibility as nothing currently on site is able to stack a SS atop a SH ontop of the orbital launch frame. At least to my knowledge.

Offline fattybunter

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So then, it seems the new giant steel pieces are simply to create a mounting platform on the SPMT for SuperHeavy

Offline samgineer

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion
« Reply #10 on: 10/28/2020 05:12 pm »
I agreed that it is not likely a crane. And obviously, not a gantry crane and those that think it is are not logical thinkers.

However, a large mobile tower crane is not out of the realm of possibility as nothing currently on site is able to stack a SS atop a SH ontop of the orbital launch frame. At least to my knowledge.

Nothing on site because there is also no full SH/SS stack already completed...
I believe only and logical assumption is some kind of new mount/transport platform for Superheavy or/and Starship. It was made, whatever it is, in SpaceX´s ground equipment facility and I bet SpaceX is not trying to build custom cranes. There is lots and lots of COTS available cranes that can be modified for any usage and are fully certified.
« Last Edit: 10/28/2020 05:39 pm by samgineer »

Offline capoman

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion
« Reply #11 on: 10/28/2020 05:19 pm »
So then, it seems the new giant steel pieces are simply to create a mounting platform on the SPMT for SuperHeavy

Could it be used to move Starship from the landing pad after it's 15km hop? A full stack Starship might also be problematic to move due to it's 50m height as well. Obviously a crane will need to load it on. But would jive with timing of it's assembly.

Online baking

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion
« Reply #12 on: 10/28/2020 05:41 pm »
Looking good with the new cross bracing.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion
« Reply #13 on: 10/28/2020 05:43 pm »
 I'm sure there's a whole legion of engineers on the matter, but looking at that flimsy, sinkhole ridden highway, I'd be a little nervous about transporting a booster down it. I'd bet Johnnyhinbos's boat that it doesn't meet the specs the state has on file.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline eriblo

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion
« Reply #14 on: 10/28/2020 05:45 pm »
Attaching parts onto the SPMT.
So if they continue in a symmetric manner it currently looks like they are assembling 4 6 line SPMTs into a ~10 m wide and say ~25 long rectangle (one in each corner) with the previously seen parts forming the attachment between the long sides. These parts are notably no taller than the SPMTs, have the connecting beams to the outside and what looks like a fairly beefy low slung platform just in front of the respective SPMT. These platforms are at the corners of an inscribed rectangle that is at most 9 m wide and perhaps 6-7 m long. Dimensions questimated by comparing to the 2.4 m by 8.4 m SPMTs.

EDIT: Like baking's illustration although the exact dimensions are slightly different.
« Last Edit: 10/28/2020 05:50 pm by eriblo »

Offline enbandi

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion
« Reply #15 on: 10/28/2020 05:48 pm »
Looking good with the new cross bracing.

Had similar idea, but it is also problematic:
Bottom skirt reinforcements are 6-fold symmetric, no stong points to match this alignment.

Also the sides for this craddle are full height around, i dont see how they intend to go under for the lift.

Offline RotoSequence

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion
« Reply #16 on: 10/28/2020 05:49 pm »
Does anyone know what they've been up to in the ground facilities fabrication structure? Maybe their plans for the SPMT involve something in there.

Offline dglow

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion
« Reply #17 on: 10/28/2020 05:55 pm »
I'm sure there's a whole legion of engineers on the matter, but looking at that flimsy, sinkhole ridden highway, I'd be a little nervous about transporting a booster down it. I'd bet Johnnyhinbos's boat that it doesn't meet the specs the state has on file.

When will Texas improve that stretch of Hwy 4 and rename it to “Boca Chica Crawlerway”?

Offline eriblo

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion
« Reply #18 on: 10/28/2020 06:08 pm »
Looking good with the new cross bracing.

Had similar idea, but it is also problematic:
Bottom skirt reinforcements are 6-fold symmetric, no stong points to match this alignment.

Also the sides for this craddle are full height around, i dont see how they intend to go under for the lift.
Well, if you really want to kick the speculation hornets nest: What is really heavy, 9 m i diameter and has, last we heard, switched to 4-fold symmetry?
« Last Edit: 10/28/2020 06:17 pm by eriblo »

Offline stinger729

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Re: SpaceX Starship : Texas Prototype(s) Thread 13 : Discussion
« Reply #19 on: 10/28/2020 06:38 pm »
Looking good with the new cross bracing.

Had similar idea, but it is also problematic:
Bottom skirt reinforcements are 6-fold symmetric, no stong points to match this alignment.

Also the sides for this craddle are full height around, i dont see how they intend to go under for the lift.
Well, if you really want to kick the speculation hornets nest: What is really heavy, 9 m i diameter and has, last we heard, switched to 4-fold symmetry?

Why would they assemble this rig for transporting that right now though? The first super heavy prototype, if we're being highly optimistic is probably 3 weeks away from being ready for a transport. More likely 4+ weeks, it took them about 21 days to fully stack SN9s tank section.
« Last Edit: 10/28/2020 06:41 pm by stinger729 »

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