Author Topic: Boca Chica Resort  (Read 40202 times)

Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #20 on: 08/12/2020 03:21 am »
I wasn't saying "people" aren't interested. I was saying there is no good reason for SpaceX to build a resort for them. S. Padre is right there and they are accustomed to catering to the masses.

Why would SpaceX want to hire resort expertise? This is the question. I don't think the first answer is tourism.

Maezawa-san is more in the ballpark for the reasoning behind SpaceX wanting nice digs on hand for VIPs.

South Padre has a rather roundabout route to Boca Chica as well.

The view of the skies above BC from S. Padre leave little need for most to travel to BC to watch the show. It is quite a haul between the two by road.

Line of sight from the tip of S. Padre appears to be roughly four or five times the distance between the SS build site and the launch site. It is close enough that I heard tell that some folks already are watching the action from cameras on S. Padre. (should we all raise out hands?)

The tourists don't have to go to BC to see the show, though it might be nice if there were a place to visit in BC to buy SpaceX trinkets, and to have a Starship Bacon Blastoff Burger, Raptor Fries and a LOX Shake while gazing upon the wonder of the place.

Offline LMT

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #21 on: 08/12/2020 04:18 am »
Boca Chica spacediving

El Cerro de la Viga would make a scenic spacediving landing zone.  All give thanks at la Iglesia de la Viga before catching the bus back. 

"Aiming to make it super fun!"
-Elon
« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 05:55 am by LMT »

Offline RotoSequence

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #22 on: 08/12/2020 04:34 am »
I wasn't saying "people" aren't interested. I was saying there is no good reason for SpaceX to build a resort for them. S. Padre is right there and they are accustomed to catering to the masses.

Why would SpaceX want to hire resort expertise? This is the question. I don't think the first answer is tourism.

Maezawa-san is more in the ballpark for the reasoning behind SpaceX wanting nice digs on hand for VIPs.

South Padre has a rather roundabout route to Boca Chica as well.

The view of the skies above BC from S. Padre leave little need for most to travel to BC to watch the show. It is quite a haul between the two by road.

Line of sight from the tip of S. Padre appears to be roughly four or five times the distance between the SS build site and the launch site. It is close enough that I heard tell that some folks already are watching the action from cameras on S. Padre. (should we all raise out hands?)

The tourists don't have to go to BC to see the show, though it might be nice if there were a place to visit in BC to buy SpaceX trinkets, and to have a Starship Bacon Blastoff Burger, Raptor Fries and a LOX Shake while gazing upon the wonder of the place.

I don't think they're building it with intentions to just sit back and watch.  :P

Offline Dave G

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #23 on: 08/12/2020 10:08 am »
Line of sight from the tip of S. Padre appears to be roughly four or five times the distance between the SS build site and the launch site.

Line of sight from the tip of South Padre Island to the launch site near Boca Chica Beach is 4.9 miles.
Line of sight from the the Build site is 2.1 miles.
So that's only 2-3 times further from South Padre Island.

Of course, this all assumes they will launch orbital missions from land.
Remember, SpaceX is currently hiring people to build an offshore launch site near South Texas.
There are also indications SpaceX is having trouble getting FAA approval to launch the full SH+SS stack from Boca Chica.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #24 on: 08/12/2020 01:26 pm »
I have expected to see SpaceX land purchases outside the future keep-out zone, displacing Nomadd for the second time. 8)

Offline taidman

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #25 on: 08/12/2020 01:46 pm »
I would love to see a new innovation hub (think Silicon Valley or NC Research Triangle) focused on aerospace tech. Seems like there's a ton of land in the area and SpaceX is the perfect anchor tenant.

Offline jpo234

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #26 on: 08/12/2020 02:30 pm »

Haven't you seen the crowds that came to watch the FH launch? Now imagine the interest the first manned flight to Mars would create. Or "just" Maezawa san flying around the Moon...
They will all go to South Padre Island where launch viewing facilities have already been installed: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46358.0
I know. But SpaceX could offer a lot more, something like the Kennedy Space Center Bus Tour, access to a retired StarShip or a real SuperHeavy.

And why? For the same reason NASA does: To inspire people to support their endeavors and of course for profit.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #27 on: 08/12/2020 02:53 pm »
And why? For the same reason NASA does: To inspire people to support their endeavors and of course for profit.

Okay, you nailed the Why, now consider "Where?"

Would such a museum/display better serve the goal of public inspiration at a location with frequent seasonal tourist traffic (i.e.: Spring Break?) and the highway/lodging/dining infrastructure to support it, or, would it be more effective in this role if located on an obscure, dead-end two-lane road with a Border Patrol checkpoint and frequent closures for testing rockets?  ::)

Offline toren

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #28 on: 08/12/2020 03:28 pm »
And why? For the same reason NASA does: To inspire people to support their endeavors and of course for profit.

Okay, you nailed the Why, now consider "Where?"

Would such a museum/display better serve the goal of public inspiration at a location with frequent seasonal tourist traffic (i.e.: Spring Break?) and the highway/lodging/dining infrastructure to support it, or, would it be more effective in this role if located on an obscure, dead-end two-lane road with a Border Patrol checkpoint and frequent closures for testing rockets?  ::)

Embrace the power of 'and'.  SPI is well organized for tourism (to say the least), has invested in launch viewing facilities already, and presumably has entrepreneurs who will put together related activities and attractions with little or no urging from SpaceX.  OTOH, Boca Chica is the real deal for SpaceX fans and space flight aficionados, a classic destination, and folks will endure driving a few miles and some schedule inconvenience to experience it, particularly if they are welcomed.

(Remember that you're dealing with a guy who promotes companies by selling flamethrowers, and just said 'super fun'.  This could be really good...)

Offline philw1776

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #29 on: 08/12/2020 03:29 pm »
I find this a bit concerning.  Trying to build anything resembling a conventional resort in BC after using "It's too dangerous to live here" as a cudgel to pressure the remaining home owners to sell, would generate a huge amount of fully deserved negative press.

I really hope this is either just a fancy job title for Out of Town Employee Airstream Accommodations Manager, or despite saying Boca Chica in the title the actual plan is to build a resort somewhere between BC and Brownsville.

Anyone good at GIS? Any large plots available between BC and Brownsville?

Think you can get a medium to large cruise ship really cheap right now. As long as you don't pack it up beyond 16% of it's rated capacity and maintain strict health protocols it should be worked. It is a lot easier than finding enough land between Boca Chica and Brownsville to developed from scratch into  some sort of resort. Could be a floating launch viewing stand for Starship test flights.

Interesting suggestion.
My take is that anything in the ocean has maintenance costs several orders of magnitude greater than anything land based.  A no go despite the illusion of "cheap" purchase price.
SpaceX has shown it can construct new buildings quickly. Land there is cheap if needed.
FULL SEND!!!!

Offline Yazata

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #30 on: 08/12/2020 03:40 pm »
It seems to me that Boca Chica and South Padre needn't be an either-or matter. If Starship ever really happens, BC will displace or at least rival Cape Canaveral in the popular imagination. There's more than one viewing spot at the Cape, isn't there? There's going to be enough excitement around this thing for both South Padre and BC.

Elon has long said that one of his motivations is to revive the old popular excitement about space travel. So there's his motivation for catering to 'the masses' right there.

While Boca Chica has some obvious disadvantages compared to South Padre, it has some advantages as well from the SpaceX perspective. For one thing, SpaceX would control the resort activities at BC and would reap whatever financial rewards they generate. In South Padre, the existing resort infrastructure would be the ones profiting.

And even when launches aren't occurring, Boca Chica offers visitors the opportunity to view the Starship fabrication and launch facilities close up, taking in the views that Mary presents us every day. Lots of people would pay to visit Elon-World just to see Nomadd's proliferating nosecones. 

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #31 on: 08/12/2020 03:47 pm »
Tongue In Cheek: SX is not allowed to close the road or beach on certain key summer weekends.
Making a "resort" ensures that the site is not wasted on those days, and it can continue to be economically active.

But more seriously: it is a public road, which can not be (permanently) closed to the public due to the beach and the nature reserve.... and other property some of which may never be SX owned. Therefore more and more people are going to drive down to look and film etc.
So either ban all stopping, get infractions ticketed or fined etc... and put up tall fences .... or say "how do we manage the situation?"
You manage it by making a visitor centre, a restaurant, some parking.... and selling badges made from scrap Starships!
It also furthers the other goal of SX of enthusing and educating people about spaceflight. Plus it makes it possible for locals to see what a nice welcoming company SX is and that there is no need to protest against their encroachment. (It can also display the measures SX takes to preserve wildlife etc...)
And for all the big pieces of Starship, that are too big to move far, but it would be a crime against history to scrap.... it gives them a place and a purpose.

« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 03:51 pm by DistantTemple »
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #32 on: 08/12/2020 04:49 pm »
 I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I'm also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 05:46 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #33 on: 08/12/2020 05:29 pm »
I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I''m also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
There will never be a "couple of hundred" tourist VEHICLES allowed at the launch site, or even the build site. They will stay in a car park at the visitor centre, or for the VIP's in the village. A tour "bus" will take them on a tour to these facilities.
Most of the reserve requires waders or a canoe! And managed visitors are less likely to go tramping around the marsh to the back of anywhere, unlike you amazing residents!
But I share your worry. It is out of character for me to champion an industrial development in a remote wild nature reserve and beauty spot! However SX/EM is sufficient reason for me!
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #34 on: 08/12/2020 05:42 pm »

Embrace the power of 'and'.  SPI is well organized for tourism (to say the least), has invested in launch viewing facilities already, and presumably has entrepreneurs who will put together related activities and attractions with little or no urging from SpaceX.  OTOH, Boca Chica is the real deal for SpaceX fans and space flight aficionados, a classic destination, and folks will endure driving a few miles and some schedule inconvenience to experience it, particularly if they are welcomed.

(Remember that you're dealing with a guy who promotes companies by selling flamethrowers, and just said 'super fun'.  This could be really good...)

I'm with you and that is what I've implied so far. There should be a Visitor's Center with souvenirs, food, informative experiences, tours, etc. for those who want an up close and personal perspective.

That operation would have little to do with SpaceX hiring designers/executives/staff with resort expertise.

It seems to me more likely the reason for such job listings is part of a plan to provide on-site resort-level accommodation for those visitors directly related to operations, such as employees from afar, customers of SpaceX services, suppliers, contractors, passengers, etc.


Offline Kansan52

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #35 on: 08/12/2020 06:09 pm »
So this multistory resort facing the launch site will have blast louvers facing the launch site like KSC Launch Control?

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #36 on: 08/12/2020 06:30 pm »
I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I''m also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
There will never be a "couple of hundred" tourist VEHICLES allowed at the launch site, or even the build site. They will stay in a car park at the visitor centre, or for the VIP's in the village. A tour "bus" will take them on a tour to these facilities.
Most of the reserve requires waders or a canoe! And managed visitors are less likely to go tramping around the marsh to the back of anywhere, unlike you amazing residents!
But I share your worry. It is out of character for me to champion an industrial development in a remote wild nature reserve and beauty spot! However SX/EM is sufficient reason for me!
It's a public highway. I don't know how you think anybody is going to "allow" anything. People don't come to buy stuffed spaceships . They come to see rockets, and looking at a hazy view from 5 miles off is a little different than standing in one's shadow. Most aren't going to make an appointment for a shuttle ride when they can just drive there.
 It's a public beach with parking for well over six vehicles, unless they want to drive on the sand. Something will have to give, and I'm sure lots of people won't like it, whatever it is. The company has a bad habit of making plans without consulting anybody whose cooperation they need, government or otherwise.
« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 06:42 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #37 on: 08/12/2020 06:41 pm »
Well I'm not there.... but if a family drives to the SX visitor "experience" whatever that is... I suggest they will be able to purchase a ticket on some kind of tour to the launch site and to the construction area. If that was in a tour vehicle like a minibus with guide, then they would get some access, and see some things up close... that would not be possible by driving their own cars up to the site and trying to stop outside.
I'm guessing that after  walking around a "rocket garden", eating at the restaurant, and having such an official tour, they will be less likely to drive back to the launch site to try to look over the fence!
Obviously I'm incorrect... just how much, 10% or 90%.
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline DanielW

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #38 on: 08/12/2020 06:49 pm »
I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I''m also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
There will never be a "couple of hundred" tourist VEHICLES allowed at the launch site, or even the build site. They will stay in a car park at the visitor centre, or for the VIP's in the village. A tour "bus" will take them on a tour to these facilities.
Most of the reserve requires waders or a canoe! And managed visitors are less likely to go tramping around the marsh to the back of anywhere, unlike you amazing residents!
But I share your worry. It is out of character for me to champion an industrial development in a remote wild nature reserve and beauty spot! However SX/EM is sufficient reason for me!
It's a public highway. I don't know how you think anybody is going to "allow" anything. People don't come to buy stuffed spaceships . They come to see rockets, and looking at a hazy view from 5 miles off is a little different than standing in one's shadow. Most aren't going to make an appointment for a shuttle ride when they can just drive there.
 It's a public beach with parking for well over six vehicles, unless they want to drive on the sand. Something will have to give, and I'm sure lots of people won't like it, whatever it is. The company has a bad habit of making plans without consulting anybody whose cooperation they need, government or otherwise.

You should try to talk them into contracting with some tunneling company, if one can be found, and giving pad tours that way. Doubles as a quick and safe exit for pad crew in the case of something unfavorable happening with several million pounds of fuel and oxidizer.

Offline danneely

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #39 on: 08/12/2020 08:03 pm »
I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I''m also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
There will never be a "couple of hundred" tourist VEHICLES allowed at the launch site, or even the build site. They will stay in a car park at the visitor centre, or for the VIP's in the village. A tour "bus" will take them on a tour to these facilities.
Most of the reserve requires waders or a canoe! And managed visitors are less likely to go tramping around the marsh to the back of anywhere, unlike you amazing residents!
But I share your worry. It is out of character for me to champion an industrial development in a remote wild nature reserve and beauty spot! However SX/EM is sufficient reason for me!
It's a public highway. I don't know how you think anybody is going to "allow" anything. People don't come to buy stuffed spaceships . They come to see rockets, and looking at a hazy view from 5 miles off is a little different than standing in one's shadow. Most aren't going to make an appointment for a shuttle ride when they can just drive there.
 It's a public beach with parking for well over six vehicles, unless they want to drive on the sand. Something will have to give, and I'm sure lots of people won't like it, whatever it is. The company has a bad habit of making plans without consulting anybody whose cooperation they need, government or otherwise.

You should try to talk them into contracting with some tunneling company, if one can be found, and giving pad tours that way. Doubles as a quick and safe exit for pad crew in the case of something unfavorable happening with several million pounds of fuel and oxidizer.

having a water table only a few feet below ground level (at sea level) makes any sort of substantial underground structure impractical.  If it's air filled there will be zillions of tons of hydrostatic pressure trying to push it up, and you're one crack away from it all flooding.

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