Author Topic: Boca Chica Resort  (Read 40205 times)

Offline LMT

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Boca Chica Resort
« on: 08/11/2020 05:29 am »
SpaceX application:  Resort Development Manager

--

- Blue Origin-style suborbital tourism resort?

- Spacediving?

- Marsliner LEO AG package?

- Other profitable possibilities?

Offline RotoSequence

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #1 on: 08/11/2020 05:47 am »
SpaceX application:  Resort Development Manager

--

- Blue Origin-style suborbital tourism resort?

- Spacediving?

- Marsliner LEO AG package?

- Other profitable possibilities?

When I saw this the other day, I figured SpaceX's intentions are to bootstrap somewhere for engineers and VIPs to go when working on Starship related endeavors, with the benefits of coordinated architectural design and aesthetics, and not needing to rely on speculative commercial partnerships to create a resort that's suitable for their goals of frequent space flights for everything from Department of Defense missions to space tourists.

Offline llanitedave

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #2 on: 08/11/2020 05:51 am »
As long as they have a beach nearby, should be great!   ;D
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline CameronD

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #3 on: 08/11/2020 06:08 am »
SpaceX application:  Resort Development Manager

Where's Walt Disney when they need him?

"MuskWorld", "Three Starships over Texas"..
« Last Edit: 08/11/2020 06:10 am by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline CuddlyRocket

Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #4 on: 08/11/2020 10:41 am »
SpaceX application:  Resort Development Manager

When I saw this the other day, I figured SpaceX's intentions are to bootstrap somewhere for engineers and VIPs to go when working on Starship related endeavors, with the benefits of coordinated architectural design and aesthetics, and not needing to rely on speculative commercial partnerships to create a resort that's suitable for their goals of frequent space flights for everything from Department of Defense missions to space tourists.

I suspect that, in the short term at least, it's to stop wasting engineering management time (possibly even Elon's) in sorting this stuff out when they could be working on Starship design and manufacture! And if properly organised it may be less expensive overall. But, I'm sure SpaceX is well aware of the inherent commercial possibilities in the medium to longer term and would explore the possibilities of capturing some of the profits.

Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #5 on: 08/11/2020 12:17 pm »
Here's a link to the Teslarati article on this.
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-spaceport-resort-developer-texas-rocket-factory-job-opening/

The author speculates about how the resort(s) might include the floating launch platforms, as well as BC.
« Last Edit: 08/11/2020 12:17 pm by Texsun »

Offline danneely

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #6 on: 08/11/2020 02:35 pm »
I find this a bit concerning.  Trying to build anything resembling a conventional resort in BC after using "It's too dangerous to live here" as a cudgel to pressure the remaining home owners to sell, would generate a huge amount of fully deserved negative press.

I really hope this is either just a fancy job title for Out of Town Employee Airstream Accommodations Manager, or despite saying Boca Chica in the title the actual plan is to build a resort somewhere between BC and Brownsville.

Offline jpo234

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #7 on: 08/11/2020 03:37 pm »
I find this a bit concerning.  Trying to build anything resembling a conventional resort in BC after using "It's too dangerous to live here" as a cudgel to pressure the remaining home owners to sell, would generate a huge amount of fully deserved negative press.

I really hope this is either just a fancy job title for Out of Town Employee Airstream Accommodations Manager, or despite saying Boca Chica in the title the actual plan is to build a resort somewhere between BC and Brownsville.

Another possibility is, that they have actually decided to go with the off-shore launch platform. That could eventually free BC to become the spaceport terminal with amenities.
BTW, this would still mean that BC is not suitable for permanent habitation while the R&D testing is going on.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline taidman

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #8 on: 08/11/2020 03:51 pm »
I find this a bit concerning.  Trying to build anything resembling a conventional resort in BC after using "It's too dangerous to live here" as a cudgel to pressure the remaining home owners to sell, would generate a huge amount of fully deserved negative press.

I really hope this is either just a fancy job title for Out of Town Employee Airstream Accommodations Manager, or despite saying Boca Chica in the title the actual plan is to build a resort somewhere between BC and Brownsville.

Anyone good at GIS? Any large plots available between BC and Brownsville?

Offline su27k

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #9 on: 08/11/2020 05:17 pm »
I find this a bit concerning.  Trying to build anything resembling a conventional resort in BC after using "It's too dangerous to live here" as a cudgel to pressure the remaining home owners to sell, would generate a huge amount of fully deserved negative press.

I don't think there's a contradiction here. SpaceX didn't say "It's too dangerous to live here", they said there will be a lot more disruptions, the guests in the resort wouldn't mind disruptions if they're in the resort to watch the disruptions. And I assume they can ask guests to sign waivers, like the waivers handed out to guests watching a launch, I think there's a difference between heading into potentially dangerous area willingly and having potential danger moving in next door of your home.

Anyway, they advertised this position a few months ago, it did generate some negative press and they removed the job ads quickly. Now that they're doing this again, I wonder if something changed.
« Last Edit: 08/11/2020 05:34 pm by su27k »

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #10 on: 08/11/2020 05:29 pm »
I find this a bit concerning.  Trying to build anything resembling a conventional resort in BC after using "It's too dangerous to live here" as a cudgel to pressure the remaining home owners to sell, would generate a huge amount of fully deserved negative press.

I really hope this is either just a fancy job title for Out of Town Employee Airstream Accommodations Manager, or despite saying Boca Chica in the title the actual plan is to build a resort somewhere between BC and Brownsville.

Anyone good at GIS? Any large plots available between BC and Brownsville?
Since its a "space"resort, and "will be" 100% effectively controlled by SX, any guests, patrons, contractors, and employees will naturally observe all safety procedures, including going outside, vacating the area, retreating outside checkpoints...  (And this is moot because of the beach and HW4, but SX would not have to get external authority for these disruptions). And the houses will not be used as anyone's permanent main residence. (EM has other sofas!)

Its pretty clear that Elon likes the scene where the team is living on the job and works 24/7 (well 12 hrs a day). Everyone is fired up by the mission, the technical challenges, the engineering the successes. They live/camp together and party together. Just like the Falcon 1. Lots of workers in various industries "bunk" on site. However at BC, even that is transformed!

Visitors, investors, even dignitaries may be put up there! "Come down to BC and meat the crew, see how we do things, its a great atmosphere." - no spoiling the effect by sending people to a drab business hotel in Brownsville. 
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #11 on: 08/11/2020 05:33 pm »
"Sorry Elon I absolutely said I'd see the kids this weekend".
"No problem, bring them down here".
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #12 on: 08/11/2020 05:51 pm »
I find this a bit concerning.  Trying to build anything resembling a conventional resort in BC after using "It's too dangerous to live here" as a cudgel to pressure the remaining home owners to sell, would generate a huge amount of fully deserved negative press.

I really hope this is either just a fancy job title for Out of Town Employee Airstream Accommodations Manager, or despite saying Boca Chica in the title the actual plan is to build a resort somewhere between BC and Brownsville.

Anyone good at GIS? Any large plots available between BC and Brownsville?

Think you can get a medium to large cruise ship really cheap right now. As long as you don't pack it up beyond 16% of it's rated capacity and maintain strict health protocols it should be worked. It is a lot easier than finding enough land between Boca Chica and Brownsville to developed from scratch into  some sort of resort. Could be a floating launch viewing stand for Starship test flights.

Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #13 on: 08/11/2020 05:53 pm »
The guests at the "resort" (let's just say, "deluxe accommodations") will likely be limited to paying customers awaiting their flight, SpaceX employees from other locations on site to work, and others from among the strictly Space Business crowd.

I can't imagine any good reason to be inviting tourists just for the sake of them having a Kodak moment, taking a tour, and heading home.

Well, except for space alien tourists, of course.
« Last Edit: 08/11/2020 05:55 pm by Texsun »

Offline jpo234

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #14 on: 08/11/2020 08:09 pm »
The guests at the "resort" (let's just say, "deluxe accommodations") will likely be limited to paying customers awaiting their flight, SpaceX employees from other locations on site to work, and others from among the strictly Space Business crowd.

I can't imagine any good reason to be inviting tourists just for the sake of them having a Kodak moment, taking a tour, and heading home.

Well, except for space alien tourists, of course.

Haven't you seen the crowds that came to watch the FH launch? Now imagine the interest the first manned flight to Mars would create. Or "just" Maezawa san flying around the Moon...

If (I know it's a big if) #dearmoon launches on schedule in '23, then lunar test flights can't be more than a year away.
« Last Edit: 08/11/2020 08:11 pm by jpo234 »
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline ShSch

Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #15 on: 08/11/2020 10:16 pm »
The guests at the "resort" (let's just say, "deluxe accommodations") will likely be limited to paying customers awaiting their flight, SpaceX employees from other locations on site to work, and others from among the strictly Space Business crowd.

I can't imagine any good reason to be inviting tourists just for the sake of them having a Kodak moment, taking a tour, and heading home.

Well, except for space alien tourists, of course.

Haven't you seen the crowds that came to watch the FH launch? Now imagine the interest the first manned flight to Mars would create. Or "just" Maezawa san flying around the Moon...
They will all go to South Padre Island where launch viewing facilities have already been installed: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46358.0

Offline JohnM

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #16 on: 08/11/2020 11:25 pm »

Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #17 on: 08/12/2020 01:49 am »
The guests at the "resort" (let's just say, "deluxe accommodations") will likely be limited to paying customers awaiting their flight, SpaceX employees from other locations on site to work, and others from among the strictly Space Business crowd.

I can't imagine any good reason to be inviting tourists just for the sake of them having a Kodak moment, taking a tour, and heading home.

Well, except for space alien tourists, of course.

Haven't you seen the crowds that came to watch the FH launch? Now imagine the interest the first manned flight to Mars would create. Or "just" Maezawa san flying around the Moon...

If (I know it's a big if) #dearmoon launches on schedule in '23, then lunar test flights can't be more than a year away.

I wasn't saying "people" aren't interested. I was saying there is no good reason for SpaceX to build a resort for them. S. Padre is right there and they are accustomed to catering to the masses.

Why would SpaceX want to hire resort expertise? This is the question. I don't think the first answer is tourism.

Maezawa-san is more in the ballpark for the reasoning behind SpaceX wanting nice digs on hand for VIPs.

Offline RotoSequence

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #18 on: 08/12/2020 01:51 am »
I wasn't saying "people" aren't interested. I was saying there is no good reason for SpaceX to build a resort for them. S. Padre is right there and they are accustomed to catering to the masses.

Why would SpaceX want to hire resort expertise? This is the question. I don't think the first answer is tourism.

Maezawa-san is more in the ballpark for the reasoning behind SpaceX wanting nice digs on hand for VIPs.

South Padre has a rather roundabout route to Boca Chica as well.

Offline DiskOperatingSystem

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #19 on: 08/12/2020 02:07 am »
How might this change up the environmental review that Boca Chica is currently under? It seems as if SpaceX will hire a resort developer and A) either have to go through yet another major environmental review or B) integrate the current plans into the review. The speed at which the spaceport is going up seems like it would make the review more difficult. I just hope the Resort Developer takes into account the incredible nature around the area and integrates it rather than destroy it.

Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #20 on: 08/12/2020 03:21 am »
I wasn't saying "people" aren't interested. I was saying there is no good reason for SpaceX to build a resort for them. S. Padre is right there and they are accustomed to catering to the masses.

Why would SpaceX want to hire resort expertise? This is the question. I don't think the first answer is tourism.

Maezawa-san is more in the ballpark for the reasoning behind SpaceX wanting nice digs on hand for VIPs.

South Padre has a rather roundabout route to Boca Chica as well.

The view of the skies above BC from S. Padre leave little need for most to travel to BC to watch the show. It is quite a haul between the two by road.

Line of sight from the tip of S. Padre appears to be roughly four or five times the distance between the SS build site and the launch site. It is close enough that I heard tell that some folks already are watching the action from cameras on S. Padre. (should we all raise out hands?)

The tourists don't have to go to BC to see the show, though it might be nice if there were a place to visit in BC to buy SpaceX trinkets, and to have a Starship Bacon Blastoff Burger, Raptor Fries and a LOX Shake while gazing upon the wonder of the place.

Offline LMT

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #21 on: 08/12/2020 04:18 am »
Boca Chica spacediving

El Cerro de la Viga would make a scenic spacediving landing zone.  All give thanks at la Iglesia de la Viga before catching the bus back. 

"Aiming to make it super fun!"
-Elon
« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 05:55 am by LMT »

Offline RotoSequence

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #22 on: 08/12/2020 04:34 am »
I wasn't saying "people" aren't interested. I was saying there is no good reason for SpaceX to build a resort for them. S. Padre is right there and they are accustomed to catering to the masses.

Why would SpaceX want to hire resort expertise? This is the question. I don't think the first answer is tourism.

Maezawa-san is more in the ballpark for the reasoning behind SpaceX wanting nice digs on hand for VIPs.

South Padre has a rather roundabout route to Boca Chica as well.

The view of the skies above BC from S. Padre leave little need for most to travel to BC to watch the show. It is quite a haul between the two by road.

Line of sight from the tip of S. Padre appears to be roughly four or five times the distance between the SS build site and the launch site. It is close enough that I heard tell that some folks already are watching the action from cameras on S. Padre. (should we all raise out hands?)

The tourists don't have to go to BC to see the show, though it might be nice if there were a place to visit in BC to buy SpaceX trinkets, and to have a Starship Bacon Blastoff Burger, Raptor Fries and a LOX Shake while gazing upon the wonder of the place.

I don't think they're building it with intentions to just sit back and watch.  :P

Offline Dave G

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #23 on: 08/12/2020 10:08 am »
Line of sight from the tip of S. Padre appears to be roughly four or five times the distance between the SS build site and the launch site.

Line of sight from the tip of South Padre Island to the launch site near Boca Chica Beach is 4.9 miles.
Line of sight from the the Build site is 2.1 miles.
So that's only 2-3 times further from South Padre Island.

Of course, this all assumes they will launch orbital missions from land.
Remember, SpaceX is currently hiring people to build an offshore launch site near South Texas.
There are also indications SpaceX is having trouble getting FAA approval to launch the full SH+SS stack from Boca Chica.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #24 on: 08/12/2020 01:26 pm »
I have expected to see SpaceX land purchases outside the future keep-out zone, displacing Nomadd for the second time. 8)

Offline taidman

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #25 on: 08/12/2020 01:46 pm »
I would love to see a new innovation hub (think Silicon Valley or NC Research Triangle) focused on aerospace tech. Seems like there's a ton of land in the area and SpaceX is the perfect anchor tenant.

Offline jpo234

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #26 on: 08/12/2020 02:30 pm »

Haven't you seen the crowds that came to watch the FH launch? Now imagine the interest the first manned flight to Mars would create. Or "just" Maezawa san flying around the Moon...
They will all go to South Padre Island where launch viewing facilities have already been installed: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46358.0
I know. But SpaceX could offer a lot more, something like the Kennedy Space Center Bus Tour, access to a retired StarShip or a real SuperHeavy.

And why? For the same reason NASA does: To inspire people to support their endeavors and of course for profit.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #27 on: 08/12/2020 02:53 pm »
And why? For the same reason NASA does: To inspire people to support their endeavors and of course for profit.

Okay, you nailed the Why, now consider "Where?"

Would such a museum/display better serve the goal of public inspiration at a location with frequent seasonal tourist traffic (i.e.: Spring Break?) and the highway/lodging/dining infrastructure to support it, or, would it be more effective in this role if located on an obscure, dead-end two-lane road with a Border Patrol checkpoint and frequent closures for testing rockets?  ::)

Offline toren

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #28 on: 08/12/2020 03:28 pm »
And why? For the same reason NASA does: To inspire people to support their endeavors and of course for profit.

Okay, you nailed the Why, now consider "Where?"

Would such a museum/display better serve the goal of public inspiration at a location with frequent seasonal tourist traffic (i.e.: Spring Break?) and the highway/lodging/dining infrastructure to support it, or, would it be more effective in this role if located on an obscure, dead-end two-lane road with a Border Patrol checkpoint and frequent closures for testing rockets?  ::)

Embrace the power of 'and'.  SPI is well organized for tourism (to say the least), has invested in launch viewing facilities already, and presumably has entrepreneurs who will put together related activities and attractions with little or no urging from SpaceX.  OTOH, Boca Chica is the real deal for SpaceX fans and space flight aficionados, a classic destination, and folks will endure driving a few miles and some schedule inconvenience to experience it, particularly if they are welcomed.

(Remember that you're dealing with a guy who promotes companies by selling flamethrowers, and just said 'super fun'.  This could be really good...)

Offline philw1776

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #29 on: 08/12/2020 03:29 pm »
I find this a bit concerning.  Trying to build anything resembling a conventional resort in BC after using "It's too dangerous to live here" as a cudgel to pressure the remaining home owners to sell, would generate a huge amount of fully deserved negative press.

I really hope this is either just a fancy job title for Out of Town Employee Airstream Accommodations Manager, or despite saying Boca Chica in the title the actual plan is to build a resort somewhere between BC and Brownsville.

Anyone good at GIS? Any large plots available between BC and Brownsville?

Think you can get a medium to large cruise ship really cheap right now. As long as you don't pack it up beyond 16% of it's rated capacity and maintain strict health protocols it should be worked. It is a lot easier than finding enough land between Boca Chica and Brownsville to developed from scratch into  some sort of resort. Could be a floating launch viewing stand for Starship test flights.

Interesting suggestion.
My take is that anything in the ocean has maintenance costs several orders of magnitude greater than anything land based.  A no go despite the illusion of "cheap" purchase price.
SpaceX has shown it can construct new buildings quickly. Land there is cheap if needed.
FULL SEND!!!!

Offline Yazata

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #30 on: 08/12/2020 03:40 pm »
It seems to me that Boca Chica and South Padre needn't be an either-or matter. If Starship ever really happens, BC will displace or at least rival Cape Canaveral in the popular imagination. There's more than one viewing spot at the Cape, isn't there? There's going to be enough excitement around this thing for both South Padre and BC.

Elon has long said that one of his motivations is to revive the old popular excitement about space travel. So there's his motivation for catering to 'the masses' right there.

While Boca Chica has some obvious disadvantages compared to South Padre, it has some advantages as well from the SpaceX perspective. For one thing, SpaceX would control the resort activities at BC and would reap whatever financial rewards they generate. In South Padre, the existing resort infrastructure would be the ones profiting.

And even when launches aren't occurring, Boca Chica offers visitors the opportunity to view the Starship fabrication and launch facilities close up, taking in the views that Mary presents us every day. Lots of people would pay to visit Elon-World just to see Nomadd's proliferating nosecones. 

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #31 on: 08/12/2020 03:47 pm »
Tongue In Cheek: SX is not allowed to close the road or beach on certain key summer weekends.
Making a "resort" ensures that the site is not wasted on those days, and it can continue to be economically active.

But more seriously: it is a public road, which can not be (permanently) closed to the public due to the beach and the nature reserve.... and other property some of which may never be SX owned. Therefore more and more people are going to drive down to look and film etc.
So either ban all stopping, get infractions ticketed or fined etc... and put up tall fences .... or say "how do we manage the situation?"
You manage it by making a visitor centre, a restaurant, some parking.... and selling badges made from scrap Starships!
It also furthers the other goal of SX of enthusing and educating people about spaceflight. Plus it makes it possible for locals to see what a nice welcoming company SX is and that there is no need to protest against their encroachment. (It can also display the measures SX takes to preserve wildlife etc...)
And for all the big pieces of Starship, that are too big to move far, but it would be a crime against history to scrap.... it gives them a place and a purpose.

« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 03:51 pm by DistantTemple »
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #32 on: 08/12/2020 04:49 pm »
 I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I'm also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 05:46 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #33 on: 08/12/2020 05:29 pm »
I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I''m also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
There will never be a "couple of hundred" tourist VEHICLES allowed at the launch site, or even the build site. They will stay in a car park at the visitor centre, or for the VIP's in the village. A tour "bus" will take them on a tour to these facilities.
Most of the reserve requires waders or a canoe! And managed visitors are less likely to go tramping around the marsh to the back of anywhere, unlike you amazing residents!
But I share your worry. It is out of character for me to champion an industrial development in a remote wild nature reserve and beauty spot! However SX/EM is sufficient reason for me!
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Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #34 on: 08/12/2020 05:42 pm »

Embrace the power of 'and'.  SPI is well organized for tourism (to say the least), has invested in launch viewing facilities already, and presumably has entrepreneurs who will put together related activities and attractions with little or no urging from SpaceX.  OTOH, Boca Chica is the real deal for SpaceX fans and space flight aficionados, a classic destination, and folks will endure driving a few miles and some schedule inconvenience to experience it, particularly if they are welcomed.

(Remember that you're dealing with a guy who promotes companies by selling flamethrowers, and just said 'super fun'.  This could be really good...)

I'm with you and that is what I've implied so far. There should be a Visitor's Center with souvenirs, food, informative experiences, tours, etc. for those who want an up close and personal perspective.

That operation would have little to do with SpaceX hiring designers/executives/staff with resort expertise.

It seems to me more likely the reason for such job listings is part of a plan to provide on-site resort-level accommodation for those visitors directly related to operations, such as employees from afar, customers of SpaceX services, suppliers, contractors, passengers, etc.


Offline Kansan52

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #35 on: 08/12/2020 06:09 pm »
So this multistory resort facing the launch site will have blast louvers facing the launch site like KSC Launch Control?

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #36 on: 08/12/2020 06:30 pm »
I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I''m also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
There will never be a "couple of hundred" tourist VEHICLES allowed at the launch site, or even the build site. They will stay in a car park at the visitor centre, or for the VIP's in the village. A tour "bus" will take them on a tour to these facilities.
Most of the reserve requires waders or a canoe! And managed visitors are less likely to go tramping around the marsh to the back of anywhere, unlike you amazing residents!
But I share your worry. It is out of character for me to champion an industrial development in a remote wild nature reserve and beauty spot! However SX/EM is sufficient reason for me!
It's a public highway. I don't know how you think anybody is going to "allow" anything. People don't come to buy stuffed spaceships . They come to see rockets, and looking at a hazy view from 5 miles off is a little different than standing in one's shadow. Most aren't going to make an appointment for a shuttle ride when they can just drive there.
 It's a public beach with parking for well over six vehicles, unless they want to drive on the sand. Something will have to give, and I'm sure lots of people won't like it, whatever it is. The company has a bad habit of making plans without consulting anybody whose cooperation they need, government or otherwise.
« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 06:42 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #37 on: 08/12/2020 06:41 pm »
Well I'm not there.... but if a family drives to the SX visitor "experience" whatever that is... I suggest they will be able to purchase a ticket on some kind of tour to the launch site and to the construction area. If that was in a tour vehicle like a minibus with guide, then they would get some access, and see some things up close... that would not be possible by driving their own cars up to the site and trying to stop outside.
I'm guessing that after  walking around a "rocket garden", eating at the restaurant, and having such an official tour, they will be less likely to drive back to the launch site to try to look over the fence!
Obviously I'm incorrect... just how much, 10% or 90%.
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Offline DanielW

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #38 on: 08/12/2020 06:49 pm »
I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I''m also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
There will never be a "couple of hundred" tourist VEHICLES allowed at the launch site, or even the build site. They will stay in a car park at the visitor centre, or for the VIP's in the village. A tour "bus" will take them on a tour to these facilities.
Most of the reserve requires waders or a canoe! And managed visitors are less likely to go tramping around the marsh to the back of anywhere, unlike you amazing residents!
But I share your worry. It is out of character for me to champion an industrial development in a remote wild nature reserve and beauty spot! However SX/EM is sufficient reason for me!
It's a public highway. I don't know how you think anybody is going to "allow" anything. People don't come to buy stuffed spaceships . They come to see rockets, and looking at a hazy view from 5 miles off is a little different than standing in one's shadow. Most aren't going to make an appointment for a shuttle ride when they can just drive there.
 It's a public beach with parking for well over six vehicles, unless they want to drive on the sand. Something will have to give, and I'm sure lots of people won't like it, whatever it is. The company has a bad habit of making plans without consulting anybody whose cooperation they need, government or otherwise.

You should try to talk them into contracting with some tunneling company, if one can be found, and giving pad tours that way. Doubles as a quick and safe exit for pad crew in the case of something unfavorable happening with several million pounds of fuel and oxidizer.

Offline danneely

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #39 on: 08/12/2020 08:03 pm »
I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I''m also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
There will never be a "couple of hundred" tourist VEHICLES allowed at the launch site, or even the build site. They will stay in a car park at the visitor centre, or for the VIP's in the village. A tour "bus" will take them on a tour to these facilities.
Most of the reserve requires waders or a canoe! And managed visitors are less likely to go tramping around the marsh to the back of anywhere, unlike you amazing residents!
But I share your worry. It is out of character for me to champion an industrial development in a remote wild nature reserve and beauty spot! However SX/EM is sufficient reason for me!
It's a public highway. I don't know how you think anybody is going to "allow" anything. People don't come to buy stuffed spaceships . They come to see rockets, and looking at a hazy view from 5 miles off is a little different than standing in one's shadow. Most aren't going to make an appointment for a shuttle ride when they can just drive there.
 It's a public beach with parking for well over six vehicles, unless they want to drive on the sand. Something will have to give, and I'm sure lots of people won't like it, whatever it is. The company has a bad habit of making plans without consulting anybody whose cooperation they need, government or otherwise.

You should try to talk them into contracting with some tunneling company, if one can be found, and giving pad tours that way. Doubles as a quick and safe exit for pad crew in the case of something unfavorable happening with several million pounds of fuel and oxidizer.

having a water table only a few feet below ground level (at sea level) makes any sort of substantial underground structure impractical.  If it's air filled there will be zillions of tons of hydrostatic pressure trying to push it up, and you're one crack away from it all flooding.

Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #40 on: 08/12/2020 08:16 pm »

You should try to talk them into contracting with some tunneling company, if one can be found, and giving pad tours that way.

That sounds rather, ahem, Boring, to me.  8)
« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 08:19 pm by Texsun »

Offline Mandella

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #41 on: 08/12/2020 08:42 pm »
If land inland is available, I suspect SpaceX will pull a Disneyworld and set up a resort area well away from the actual operations. They can make it look as futuristic and SpaceX-ey all they want safely back from the dangerzone -- even perhaps relocating Hoppy and other relics too sentimentally evocative to scrap to the resort area.

And they might not be able to stop people from driving down the main road during no launch times, but they certainly can make their own authorized tours much better in comparison. And of course they will have a viewing area closer to the launch site than the resort, and you'll only be able to get into it from the official tour.

And personally, I will be pretty disappointed if Nomadd's roof is not part of the official tour.

;)
« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 08:44 pm by Mandella »

Offline CJ

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #42 on: 08/12/2020 09:57 pm »
At first, I'd assumed that the "resort" was for SpaceX employees only - a resort-style accommodation for them (A great idea when trying to attract workers). Now, I'm wondering if those here have it right; it might be open to the public, at least in part.

I know that (pre-pandemic) I was considering a drive to have a look-see at Boca Chica. This was just after Starhopper's 150M hop, when they relocated it close to the fence. I wanted to see Starhopper (even if all I could do was drive by), and also check out the beach. It's over a thousand-mile drive each way for me, but I like visiting Texas anyway, and I had a condo lined up on South Padre. (I love beaches, and my state, Arizona, is a tad lacking in them). I've driven to Florida to see Kennedy SC (And took the tour), I've visited Houston to see MC and the facilities there (the rocket garden at both is a highlight!), so yep, I'd be very interested in a Space-X resort, or even just a few facilities (like, a tour, and a restaurant with Starship fins). If that restaurant  was open to the public, I'd certainly want to be a customer if I was visiting the area. I haven't even considered actual launches in the above, but those will be a vast draw, whether there is a SpaceX resort or not.

SpaceX would have several motives here. One is boosting public support via engagement. Another is profit to offset costs. I can see big drawbacks too, but, I've guessed wrong about SpaceX too many times to bet against them trying something a bit outlandish (like, a certain Space-X related tunneling company selling not-a-flamethrowers....). True, they are basically just roofer's torches, but still, not exactly conventional marketing. 

Edit to add: it occurs to me that there's another angle - cross-marketing. What if the tours are not trams, but full self-driving Teslas? (The tech to do this is either close or existing; it'd be for a very limited area and a per-programed route, and with speed limits near walking speed, etc.) I realize that this, and much of the above, would require government approval, but given how desirous local governments are of tourism, I suspect that it would not be too difficult. Also, Space-X has done things with Tesla before - such as sending one out past Mars.
« Last Edit: 08/12/2020 10:07 pm by CJ »

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #43 on: 08/13/2020 12:14 am »
 People wanting to see the beach might find it a little disappointing for a while. The hurricane really did a job on it. 7 miles of trash and vegetation covering the sand.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline meberbs

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #44 on: 08/13/2020 01:07 am »
For all of the posts in this thread talking about tourists, and such, I feel like most of them are missing the point

My first, and still only, thought on hearing about this is not for tourists stopping by for tours or something, but as an initial stop and preparation spot for tourists whose real destination is at least a few hundred km in the "up" direction. Even if by that point launches are offshore, the will want a place to gather everyone and make sure they are ready to head to LEO, the moon, or Mars.

Maybe there would be accommodations for people staying on the planet too, but that would not be the main purpose.

Offline CJ

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #45 on: 08/13/2020 01:14 am »
People wanting to see the beach might find it a little disappointing for a while. The hurricane really did a job on it. 7 miles of trash and vegetation covering the sand.

I used to live near a beach, so I can well envision that after a major storm (I've seen driftwood and debris 10ft deep), and fully sympathize. I wonder if Padre Island is similar? (Though that's kind of academic for me at the moment, as I won't be traveling anywhere during the pandemic).

One the resort issue though, I wonder if it's occurred to SpaceX that, if public engagement is part of their motive, that a very good way of attaining that in the space fan community (their primary customer base) would be to hire (at a high salary - it'd be worth it) well known Boca Chica content providers as tour guides. I'm serious, I think it'd be a good move on all fronts (assuming the content providers were willing, of course). This dynamic has worked very well in the "influencer" market, where people popular on youtube, instagram, etc, get major $. 

You should also get free passes for the volcano lair roller coaster ride. :)

Offline Dave G

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #46 on: 08/13/2020 10:17 am »
I suggest they will be able to purchase a ticket on some kind of tour to the launch site and to the construction area...

Boca Chica beach is open to the public.
Texas state laws are somewhat particular about limiting access to public beaches.
For every test or launch operation, SpaceX has to get permission to close the beach.
They're also not allowed to close the beach on summer weekends or holidays, except in special cases.
See here for details.

Online edzieba

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #47 on: 08/13/2020 10:39 am »
Another reason for a 'resort' in the nearer term is accommodation for staff and guests associated with payload launches. Both the technicians handling and prepping payload for Starship, and executives of the company paying for the launch, will need or want access to the launch site and viewing for the launch. Trucking to and from Brownsville is OK, but accommodation on site saves time.

On ecologically low-impact site access for tourism: eschew road access, view and access the site from off-shore via boats chartered from South Padre Island. SPI is an existing resort with infrastructure to handle general public visits and accommodation, access via boat gets a unique view and with a short pier can access and tour the sites directly with minimal impact on the wetlands, in a way driving a car to the perimeter cannot. Saves on infrastructure SpaceX themselves have to build, and SPI would likely welcome additional business so may provide some funding or other incentives themselves.

Offline Eka

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #48 on: 08/13/2020 10:59 am »
I'm pretty sure my credentials as a SpaceX fan are fairly well established. Trouble is, I'm also so a bit of a tree hugger. I'm not too sure about abandoning even the pretense of being a wildlife refuge out here. The factory and the launches aren't the problem. The traffic is. My one hope is that the heavy construction traffic that does most of the killing will taper off eventually. I'd hate to see it replaced by a couple hundred tourists every day.
As stated by EM, Starships will be made a hundred a year for at least a decade plus once production goes into full swing. This is a minimum by his stated goals for colonizing Mars. A sizable facility will be needed for staging people and supplies for that colonization effort. Figure each flight to Mars requires 8 to 10 launches. At peak that is a minimum of 8,000 launches every 26 months. Yes, SpaceX must also use other launch locations, but BC and the Port of Brownsville will become very busy.

Noise alone will cause them to use offshore facilities for most traffic. Hence why I say the Port of Brownsville will get very busy. Near each synod transfer window a minimum of 12 launches and 24 landings a day will happen from each launch pad just for fueling the Mars bound fleet. For each cargo or passenger ship that goes, there is a Superheavy/Starship launch, and Superheavy landing. These will be much harder to do off shore due to the cargo and passenger loading.* The cargo ship launches and some of the fueling flights can be spread out to stage the ships in orbit. Only a final top off and go in the window is needed for them, but the passenger ships must fuel and go.

I haven't even mentioned facilities to support in space training operations, ground crews, etc. Eventually having many thousands of people involved in ground support isn't out of the question. This is all on top of manufacturing personnel.

* Cargo and passenger launches need time for loading that doesn't have launches and landing happening. Refueling launches don't need this.
We talk about creating a Star Trek future, but will end up with The Expanse if radical change doesn't happen.

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #49 on: 08/13/2020 01:53 pm »
I suggest they will be able to purchase a ticket on some kind of tour to the launch site and to the construction area...

Boca Chica beach is open to the public.
Texas state laws are somewhat particular about limiting access to public beaches.
For every test or launch operation, SpaceX has to get permission to close the beach.
They're also not allowed to close the beach on summer weekends or holidays, except in special cases.
See here for details.

This entire summer is a special case. They don't even fill out that part of the form since the beach is closed anyhow.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline kkattula

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #50 on: 08/14/2020 03:22 pm »
For all of the posts in this thread talking about tourists, and such, I feel like most of them are missing the point

My first, and still only, thought on hearing about this is not for tourists stopping by for tours or something, but as an initial stop and preparation spot for tourists whose real destination is at least a few hundred km in the "up" direction. Even if by that point launches are offshore, the will want a place to gather everyone and make sure they are ready to head to LEO, the moon, or Mars.

Maybe there would be accommodations for people staying on the planet too, but that would not be the main purpose.

Exactly. 

Elon wants to send a million people to Mars in the next few decades. Those people are going to need to be gathered together and organized for each launch, even if most training is done elsewhere. And it will be concentrated by the synodic period into a few months every couple of years.

Imagine you're about to leave Earth forever. Wouldn't you want to enjoy some luxury in your last few days, and say your goodbyes to family, who have come to see you off, in pleasant surrounds? They will want somewhere nice to stay too.

There may even be a quarantine period, during which you want to keep the waiting passengers happy and calm.
« Last Edit: 08/14/2020 03:23 pm by kkattula »

Offline Llian Rhydderch

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #51 on: 08/15/2020 10:37 pm »
Found an interesting paragraph about SpaceX building "food services and lodging" in a 2013 public document:

Quote
Some food services and lodging may be built along State Highway 4 to accommodate the increased
demand of laborers, personnel, and spectators for the launches. Although there is no commercial zoning
in this portion of Cameron County, appropriate permitting through Cameron County would be required
prior to the construction or operation of such projects.
  link

This likely covers the airstreams, food trucks, and new flaperon-restaurant near the build site (so maybe fits in another thread???) but also would seem to fit the recent resort plans tweeted last week.
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Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #52 on: 08/15/2020 11:27 pm »
What you quote says "build". Then you mention caravans, and an existing building.....  Build is an expectation of building.... so back along rout 4 some 8 - 10 miles I found this ... it is on Google streetview, so may be a couple of years old! but its an existing site.... away from the environmentally protected wetlands.... not ever so far from where the Port connector is due to be built, so convenient assuming -as i do - that SX will have a site on the BC ship canal! for workers to get therer or to the urrent BC site! And its very convenient for the airport, or going into town!
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Offline Texsun

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Offline Mandella

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #54 on: 08/19/2020 08:03 pm »
According to this tweet, they are planning it to be for the workers first, but are open to expanding it for guests.

Ah well, guess I'll have to wait a bit more for my SpaceX Interplanetary Travel Theme Park.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1296159417163948033

Musk -- "Mostly for employees, but we’ll support public access whenever it’s safe & secure. Public support is critical to making life multiplanetary."

Offline meberbs

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #55 on: 08/19/2020 08:39 pm »
For all of the posts in this thread talking about tourists, and such, I feel like most of them are missing the point

My first, and still only, thought on hearing about this is not for tourists stopping by for tours or something, but as an initial stop and preparation spot for tourists whose real destination is at least a few hundred km in the "up" direction. Even if by that point launches are offshore, the will want a place to gather everyone and make sure they are ready to head to LEO, the moon, or Mars.

Maybe there would be accommodations for people staying on the planet too, but that would not be the main purpose.
Guess I was wrong, the position is geared towards accomodations for employees rather than future customers, though the use for future customers is not excluded.

Offline DiskOperatingSystem

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #56 on: 08/20/2020 01:57 am »
As Elon implied in his recent tweet, this facility will be for employees for some much needed R&R and eventually might be open to the public. So, in terms of employee comfort and Elon’s implication that it will be “lots of fun”, what ideas do you have for how the resort can be fun, relaxing, and a place suited for an actual spaceport?

My ideas:
- Obviously expanding the observation deck at the restaurant. Possibly adding in outdoor screens to display telemetry and camera views.
- A Retro-Futuristic 50’s diner.
- A bar called “Mars Bar”
- SpaceX store with their premium products and items only available in Boca Chica.
- A drive in movie theatre. This way you don’t need to do more to the natural environment and you can double it as a place for camera views of launches. Could allow new feature films out in theatres so employees don’t have to drive to Brownsville. Also could have an ice cream place.
- Small pier/boardwalk. Don’t want to harm the natural ecosystem more, but it’d be a place to walk out to the beach directly from Highway 4.
- Good, comfortable, scenic, and quiet housing with outdoor decks. This area would also be a place to escape from the public’s eye, so privacy is key.
- Gym and Basketball court.
- Small medical center.
- Barber/Salon.
- Facility for resident services
- Supercharges (can’t wait to see Semis and Cybertrucks at Boca Chica. That’ll go a long way to making it feel futuristic.)
- Solar Power Facility
- Post Office
- Simulated Martian Habitat so you could have a place to get acquainted with where you’re going and have some safe, simulated fun on Earth if you don’t feel like going to Mars but still work at the port.
- SpaceX Museum with early parts, Merlin and Raptor engines, spacesuits, concept drawings, etc. on display. Could have a planetarium too.
- Starship and Superheavy storage facility. Could have it attached to museum to show off real fleet of starships so you’d have an exhibit that’s always in motion and changing. You’re gonna need somewhere to store ships while not in use so...
- Maybe an indoor observation deck as well?
- Show off the nature reserve. Boca Chica should remain beautiful as it is now as much as possible.
- Eventually will need a place for guests and their needs as well as prep area for flights (maybe).

BUT, this all sounds like a small city. This list includes basic things needed for living. It will be a small city, but I’m curious about other people’s ideas for how to make Boca Chica Resort a FUTURISTIC SPACEPORT. What amenities scream FUTURE and SPACEPORT to you? Again, this is for employees so what ideas do we have for a relaxing and fun place with services for employees?

Online lykos

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #57 on: 08/20/2020 08:33 am »
-Hotel
-Indoor/outdoor swimming pool
-Park
-Gas-Station
-Garage/car-repair
-Shopping-Center
-Churches
-Rent a car/bike/bicycle
-Bus-Station
-Heli-port
-Visitor-info-center/Travel agency
-Watertower
-Pet shop
-Police-station
-Fire department
........

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #58 on: 09/12/2020 10:04 pm »
I've been wondering what they would do with SN5/6 and subsequent Starship discards.  Could add the fairing, cut out windows, and repurpose them as residences.  Would be pretty wild.  And a bit like living on Mars in the early days.
« Last Edit: 09/12/2020 10:09 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline Tomness

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #59 on: 09/12/2020 10:12 pm »
I've been wondering what they would do with SN5/6 and subsequent Starship discards.  Could add the fairing, cut out windows, and repurpose them as residences.  Would be pretty wild.  And a bit like living on Mars in the early days.

Sold to Tesla to make Signature Founder's Edition CyberTrucks?

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #60 on: 09/13/2020 01:06 pm »
I've been wondering what they would do with SN5/6 and subsequent Starship discards.  Could add the fairing, cut out windows, and repurpose them as residences.  Would be pretty wild.  And a bit like living on Mars in the early days.

A future SpaceX rocket garden needs historical artifacts.

Offline Ludus

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #61 on: 09/14/2020 03:38 am »
This is an interesting Elon twitter comment that seems relevant to SpaceX BC public face.

What’s needed if SpaceX wants to do a visitor center is a direct fast connection to South Padre Island.

Elon very rarely tweets openings for small business like this. The solution seems like the odd perfect fit for a hovercraft. Here’s an example:
https://www.hovercraft.com/content/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=179_241&products_id=696

This one happens to be called “Dragonflight”. $375k Up to 30 passengers. 35 mph. It seems like it could make the trip from SPI in less than 15 minutes and go up on the beach at Boca anywhere SpaceX wants to put a visitor center.

It makes sense that attention will go up as soon as SpaceX starts flying SN8 looking like a shiny SciFi rocket so quite soon.

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #62 on: 09/14/2020 03:43 pm »
My mad obsession... ATM    hovercraft... Thus time not for transporting SS and SH to the offshore pad, but as a FERRY from S Padre island.  Good businesses there!

Edit:(15:09:2020: 00:03) I honestly didn't notice Ludus' post just two above mine...... saying "Hovercraft"!!!!!!
« Last Edit: 09/14/2020 11:04 pm by DistantTemple »
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Offline Nomadd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #63 on: 09/14/2020 04:20 pm »
My mad obsession... ATM    hovercraft... Thus time not for transporting SS and SH to the offshore pad, but as a FERRY from S Padre island.  Good businesses there!
Asynchronous Transfer Method? Automated Tourist Machine?
« Last Edit: 09/14/2020 04:21 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline danneely

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #64 on: 09/14/2020 05:07 pm »
My mad obsession... ATM    hovercraft... Thus time not for transporting SS and SH to the offshore pad, but as a FERRY from S Padre island.  Good businesses there!
Asynchronous Transfer Method? Automated Tourist Machine?

At the moment, none of those.  :)

Offline ZChris13

Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #65 on: 09/15/2020 08:04 am »
Nomadd, are the mud flats of the south Texas coast as infested with feet and hovercraft skirt shredding oysters as the mud flats of the South Carolina coast?

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #66 on: 09/15/2020 01:06 pm »
Nomadd, are the mud flats of the south Texas coast as infested with feet and hovercraft skirt shredding oysters as the mud flats of the South Carolina coast?
One day in a kayak taught me that you'd better have razor blade proof shoes if you ever need to tow it across the shallows. Those mollusks could also carve up a boat hull pretty efficiently.
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline Dave G

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #67 on: 09/15/2020 04:26 pm »
Waiiiillll "nobody will take a hovercraft seriously" !
I doubt they would allow it.

The whole area around Boca Chica is environmentally protected wetlands.
For example, the phrase "sea turtle" occurs 98 times in the Environmental Impact Statement (link here).
Hovercraft could easily destroy nesting sites. And that's just 1 environmentally protected species.

If they want to allow boats into Boca Chica, the best way may be for SpaceX to build a pier off Boca Chica Beach.
Many public beaches have piers. People seem to like them.
« Last Edit: 09/15/2020 04:27 pm by Dave G »

Offline smisamore

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #68 on: 09/15/2020 09:13 pm »
Waiiiillll "nobody will take a hovercraft seriously" !
I doubt they would allow it.

The whole area around Boca Chica is environmentally protected wetlands.
For example, the phrase "sea turtle" occurs 98 times in the Environmental Impact Statement (link here).
Hovercraft could easily destroy nesting sites. And that's just 1 environmentally protected species.

If they want to allow boats into Boca Chica, the best way may be for SpaceX to build a pier off Boca Chica Beach.
Many public beaches have piers. People seem to like them.
AFAIK all of the piers along the south Texas coast are, for the most part, fishing piers. I'm speaking of those that go out from the beach into the gulf, not any that are up in the bays or ship channels of course.

First, I would think a pier at Boca Chica Beach would have to be extremely long to get out into water that's deep enough to safely dock or berth a ship of any reasonable size. Maybe barges wouldn't need that much draft, but that would depend on the cargo weight.

However, the real issue would be dealing with the sea conditions. Even on beautiful sunny days, it can get pretty choppy due to the ever-present winds. Obviously, ships have no problem dealing with this coming in and out of the Brownsville ship channel, but it would be "interesting" to say the least, to see how they would deal with that setting next to a half mile long (or longer) pier sticking out from a beach. I would think there would also have to be a pretty high pier elevation to deal with as well.

This is all based on my vast knowledge from being a tourist to these areas since 1980... I now defer to the local experts to correct all of my assumptions.....  ::)
« Last Edit: 09/16/2020 02:44 am by smisamore »
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Offline cosmicvoid

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #69 on: 09/16/2020 07:12 am »
I spent ~15 years working on Asynchronous Transfer Mode - ATM in Telecoms, rising to a VP of the ATM Forum (Most of my 35 patents relate to ATM).

Interesting. Back in the late 1990's, my local telco (Detroit, MI area) offered a introductory trial of DSL internet service ( a whopping 1 mbps speed ). The interface was an IBM PC hosted ATM card.
Infiinity or bust.

Offline waveney

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #70 on: 09/16/2020 09:38 am »
I spent ~15 years working on Asynchronous Transfer Mode - ATM in Telecoms, rising to a VP of the ATM Forum (Most of my 35 patents relate to ATM).

Interesting. Back in the late 1990's, my local telco (Detroit, MI area) offered a introductory trial of DSL internet service ( a whopping 1 mbps speed ). The interface was an IBM PC hosted ATM card.

I have 6 of those cards, 2 ATM switches, 3 VoD servers, ~20 STBs and two large boxes of other interfaces gathering dust in my loft...

(We may be a little off topic)
« Last Edit: 09/16/2020 09:40 am by waveney »

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #71 on: 09/16/2020 03:49 pm »
TOW what a blast from the past.  I loved the thermal optics.
Except for the part where sneezing could cost you a $20,000 missile. The target in the originals looked kind of small in the sights at almost 2 miles.
« Last Edit: 09/16/2020 03:50 pm by Nomadd »
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline cuddihy

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #72 on: 09/16/2020 05:55 pm »
Is it actually
Nomadd, are the mud flats of the south Texas coast as infested with feet and hovercraft skirt shredding oysters as the mud flats of the South Carolina coast?
One day in a kayak taught me that you'd better have razor blade proof shoes if you ever need to tow it across the shallows. Those mollusks could also carve up a boat hull pretty efficiently.

Is it actually crazy to suggest some minor channel dredging into South Bay?

Offline Dave G

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #73 on: 09/16/2020 06:00 pm »
Is it actually crazy to suggest some minor channel dredging into South Bay?

I doubt they would allow it.

The whole area around Boca Chica is environmentally protected wetlands.
For example, the phrase "sea turtle" occurs 98 times in the Environmental Impact Statement (link here).
And that's just 1 environmentally protected species.

Offline cuddihy

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #74 on: 09/16/2020 06:46 pm »
You may be overestimating the sensitivity. There are numerous protected wetlands all over the country, even in national parks, that have boat channels in or around them...virtually every estuary is an environmentally protected wetland.

https://www.fedcenter.gov/assistance/facilitytour/construction/dredging/

basically, they just have to make a case to the Army Corps of Engineers (not the EPA) that is is a worthwhile effort & the benefits outweigh any potential risks to the environment. Very similar to how the environmental impact review of the launch site was originally done. In this case, there is virtually ZERO risk the dredging will disturb harmful chemicals or pollutants, which is one common pitfall in new dredging.

It's not too hard to make a case that a single (relatively shallow) channel into South Bay, with relatively light usage, will not have catastrophic effects on Sea Turtle populations....especially since the turtles high risk area is the beach, not the Bay.

*edit: good paper about estimating dredging costs here: https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.aspenational.org/resource/resmgr/Techical_Papers/13_June_TP.pdf

I estimate based on google maps there's only about 1.5 miles of dredging from the mouth of South bay, to about  4-5 feet average depth necessary. Because it's really for private use, you could make the channel width as narrow as 100 ft wide on average. Comes to a total of only about 140,000 CY of dredge, which would probably cost well under $400,000 or so. The pier...now that may not be cheap, especially if it was for vehicles. But you're still well under a million for the whole project.

If the problem this is aimed at solving is desirable housing for SpaceX workers, totaling many $M worth of salaries, who don't want to live in Brownsville but could settle for SPI or Port Isabel, it's definitely worth exploring.
« Last Edit: 09/16/2020 08:05 pm by cuddihy »

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #75 on: 09/16/2020 07:24 pm »
You may be overestimating the sensitivity. There are numerous protected wetlands all over the country, even in national parks, that have boat channels in or around them...virtually every estuary is an environmentally protected wetland.

https://www.fedcenter.gov/assistance/facilitytour/construction/dredging/

basically, they just have to make a case to the Army Corps of Engineers (not the EPA) that is is a worthwhile effort & the benefits outweigh any potential risks to the environment. Very similar to how the environmental impact review of the launch site was originally done. In this case, there is virtually ZERO risk the dredging will disturb harmful chemicals or pollutants, which is one common pitfall in new dredging.

It's not too hard to make a case that a single (relatively shallow) channel into South Bay, with relatively light usage, will not have catastrophic effects on Sea Turtle populations....especially since the turtles high risk area is the beach, not the Bay.
I think there would be less dredging, if the (barge) loading quay was in South Bay, immediately across the road from the landing pad. However 4ft deep by at least 50ft wide is not small.... and dredging makes a big mess. Its not just the dredged area its the disturbed sediment in the water, and the wider area where that is then deposited. Maybe the best way here would be to dig it from a pontoon, and lift it ashore, to use to build up low lying areas... although as it is soft mud it would not be good for such fill.
A hovercraft would only need the slope up to the road carefully smoothed, and it could then drive straight to the landing pad!
The biggest cost would be the hovercraft itself which would have to be custom designed and built, as there are very few large enough, and none intended for large monolithic freight. Also horizontal transport appears essential, (a hovercraft is lighter and more prone to move more quickly with the sea than a heavy barge) ... a point of continuous argument here!
« Last Edit: 09/16/2020 07:25 pm by DistantTemple »
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Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #76 on: 09/16/2020 07:36 pm »
Madder and madder....

It would be rather an eyesore but...

Build a longish pier on stilts, quite a long way across South Bay, to massively reduce the need for dredging! I assume piled or similar foundations could be done just by pilling, and no cores would have to be drilled out. Even if some were it would still be much less disturbance of the waterway, and life than dredging a channel.

Tug and other boat movements however could be destructive, so it should be limited to SS and SH transport, and not SX general marine fleet!
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline cuddihy

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #77 on: 09/16/2020 08:26 pm »

I think there would be less dredging, if the (barge) loading quay was in South Bay, immediately across the road from the landing pad. However 4ft deep by at least 50ft wide is not small.... and dredging makes a big mess. Its not just the dredged area its the disturbed sediment in the water, and the wider area where that is then deposited. Maybe the best way here would be to dig it from a pontoon, and lift it ashore, to use to build up low lying areas... although as it is soft mud it would not be good for such fill.
A hovercraft would only need the slope up to the road carefully smoothed, and it could then drive straight to the landing pad!
The biggest cost would be the hovercraft itself which would have to be custom designed and built, as there are very few large enough, and none intended for large monolithic freight. Also horizontal transport appears essential, (a hovercraft is lighter and more prone to move more quickly with the sea than a heavy barge) ... a point of continuous argument here!

I think you mean Boca Chica Bay, which is across from the landing pad. Yes, it has a deeper average depth, especially closer to the road. But the area at the neck where it joins South Bay is actually shallow, which looks like a greater overall dredge length overall--impacts, costs, etc. Also, it puts people at the landing pad, where only a few people work...most work at the factory, which is where the transport is needed.

I don't think the type of soil dredged is an issue, once it dries out  above the water line it's not soft mud.

From a "disturbing the water /soil", it might make more sense to build a short causeway from the facotry up South Bay past the shallows & then a pier where South Bay opens up to deeper waters...but that would be very visible change to the current wetlands /South Bay appearance, so probably not going to happen as it may motivate otherwise indifferent parties to oppose it.

Offline Arb

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #78 on: 09/16/2020 11:12 pm »
Extract from NOAA Chart 11302 showing Boca Chica and South Bay, the place under discussion, with soundings (depth) in feet at mean lower low water:

Offline docmordrid

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #79 on: 09/17/2020 01:43 am »
Madder and madder....

It would be rather an eyesore but...

Build a longish pier on stilts, quite a long way across South Bay, to massively reduce the need for dredging! I assume piled or similar foundations could be done just by pilling, and no cores would have to be drilled out. Even if some were it would still be much less disturbance of the waterway, and life than dredging a channel.

Tug and other boat movements however could be destructive, so it should be limited to SS and SH transport, and not SX general marine fleet!

Nawww...solve all your problems at once! 

DM

Offline launchwatcher

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #80 on: 09/17/2020 09:35 pm »
Madder and madder....

It would be rather an eyesore but...

Build a longish pier on stilts, quite a long way across South Bay, to massively reduce the need for dredging! I assume piled or similar foundations could be done just by pilling, and no cores would have to be drilled out. Even if some were it would still be much less disturbance of the waterway, and life than dredging a channel.

Tug and other boat movements however could be destructive, so it should be limited to SS and SH transport, and not SX general marine fleet!

Nawww...solve all your problems at once! 


What idiot designed that crazy thing?  Miss all the arresting wires on landing and you probably get sucked into the forward port-side lift fan.

Offline docmordrid

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #81 on: 09/18/2020 10:26 am »

What idiot designed that crazy thing?  Miss all the arresting wires on landing and you probably get sucked into the forward port-side lift fan.

Marvel & Disney. In the Marvelverse Helicarrier carries Quinjets, VTOL via lift fans.
« Last Edit: 09/18/2020 10:30 am by docmordrid »
DM

Offline Mandella

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #82 on: 09/18/2020 05:17 pm »

What idiot designed that crazy thing?  Miss all the arresting wires on landing and you probably get sucked into the forward port-side lift fan.

Marvel & Disney. In the Marvelverse Helicarrier carries Quinjets, VTOL via lift fans.

Plus, the fans are folded down when the Helicarrier is in "surface stealth" mode. It looks like a regular floating carrier and aircraft can take off and land normally.

That said, they messed up the logic a bit by showing planes launching horizontally off the decks while air born.

Offline cuddihy

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #83 on: 09/18/2020 05:35 pm »
Extract from NOAA Chart 11302 showing Boca Chica and South Bay, the place under discussion, with soundings (depth) in feet at mean lower low water:

Thanks Arb! Looking at this, maybe it would be a lot better to put a pier across from launch site in the tongue of Boca Chica Bay that has the depth. You'd still have to do some dredging near the neck to make the trip less risky of running aground.

I guess you could also leverage Tesla / The Boring Company automated transport to move people from a pier at the launch site to the factory.

-so: a bit of dredging at "the neck", some channel markers in South Bay & the tongue that goes near the launch pad, some dredging (for a basin) & a pier across from the launch site, and then a small "station" & 5-6 Tesla model Xs to move people from the launch site to the factory & back...probably also need to pave a back road to make this happen without being a bit too dangerous on the highway.

Timewise: You're looking at 30-40 min to transport from a pier at SPI or Port Isabel to a pier at the launch site, then you have to wait for the Teslas to show up and take you to the factory -- say 15-20 min? OOPS, no faster than driving from SPI...
« Last Edit: 09/18/2020 05:45 pm by cuddihy »

Offline Nomadd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #84 on: 09/18/2020 11:07 pm »
 One of the attractions will be "The Esperson Quicksand challenge".
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline Llian Rhydderch

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #85 on: 09/19/2020 03:17 am »
Extract from NOAA Chart 11302 showing Boca Chica and South Bay, the place under discussion, with soundings (depth) in feet at mean lower low water:

Would be much easier to get to the resort via the bay some days.

For example, today.  After a couple days of winds from the north...

the South Bay was almost at road level a mile or so west of the the build site today.
And down by the SN 7.1 tank-that-still-exists, perhaps as testing was affected by heavy rain last night, it's even higher down that long reach of South Bay that touches the launch site proper.
Re arguments from authority on NSF:  "no one is exempt from error, and errors of authority are usually the worst kind.  Taking your word for things without question is no different than a bracket design not being tested because the designer was an old hand."
"You would actually save yourself time and effort if you were to use evidence and logic to make your points instead of wrapping yourself in the royal mantle of authority.  The approach only works on sheep, not inquisitive, intelligent people."

Offline Azular

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #86 on: 09/19/2020 03:30 am »
One of the attractions will be "The Esperson Quicksand challenge".

Hovercraft. No problem. In normal use they fly over the ground/water not in/on it   8)

Used in environmentally sensitive areas because of the ease of access and negligible disturbance of everything they fly over

Used in personally sensitive applications like under water munitions detection (good to not get blown up)

For passenger carrying a good starting point would be the Griffon Hoverwork model 12000TD

Capacity of 80 passengers and/or up to 12 tonne. 50 knots, so South Padre to Boca Chica less than 10 minutes.  Door-door let's say 15 minutes

Necessary infrastructure is minimal - a concrete pad to set down on for embarkation/disembarkation

These babies are powered by two diesel electric engines, total 1586 kw

If you don't like the diesel then I would like to believe that it would not be beyond the whit of a collaboration between Tesla and Griffon Hoverwork to replace these by electric motors  :)

Bernard
Be careful what you wish for.  You may get it

Offline ShaunML09

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #87 on: 10/21/2020 08:32 pm »
Of course the one time Elon replies to a tweet I wrote, its about a Tiki Bar in Boca Chica... ;D

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1319009651694993409

Online Cheapchips

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #88 on: 10/22/2020 10:20 pm »
All that gantry crane talk and it should have been about whether they'd install a bar at the top.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1319396588293222400?s=19

Offline WiresMN

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #89 on: 10/22/2020 10:27 pm »
Someone here did say that it would be a perfect spot for a VIP viewing Room. VIP's do like to drink too. Now will it be a tiki bar as well? One can only hope.

Offline Texsun

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #90 on: 10/25/2020 05:19 pm »
The Bali Hai-bay Tiki Bar might be apropos?   8)

Offline darkenfast

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #91 on: 10/25/2020 08:04 pm »
A bar owner in my town tried to re-model one of his places into a tiki bar.  He had grown up in Hawaii and really liked the style.  Unfortunately, he is White and a local university professor of something-studies started a protest against his businesses for the crime of "cultural misappropriation".  He had to abandon the plans and publicly grovel to the PC crowd for having offended them.  It would be interesting to see what happens when a similar attack is launched against Musk for either this or a mariachi band.  It's ridiculous but true. 
Writer of Book and Lyrics for musicals "SCAR", "Cinderella!", and "Aladdin!". Retired Naval Security Group. "I think SCAR is a winner. Great score, [and] the writing is up there with the very best!"
-- Phil Henderson, Composer of the West End musical "The Far Pavilions".

Offline launchwatcher

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #92 on: 10/26/2020 01:46 am »
A bar owner in my town tried to re-model one of his places into a tiki bar.  He had grown up in Hawaii and really liked the style.  Unfortunately, he is White and a local university professor of something-studies started a protest against his businesses for the crime of "cultural misappropriation". 
Tiki Bars Save Lives:
Quote
Divine Intervention: Priests on a Floating Tiki Bar Rescue Man on Lake George

A man from Albany was saved from possibly drowning in Lake George earlier this month by a Tiki Tours charter carrying seven Catholic priests from the Paulist Fathers.

Jimmy Macdonald, a former amateur boxer who now is a drug treatment counselor, was kayaking along the shore just north of Lake George Village when things started to go badly. ...
Source: https://www.glensfallsliving.com/blog/hometown-news-august-26


Online edzieba

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #93 on: 10/26/2020 10:42 am »
Given it's a 360 viewing area, it could be called the Really Really Low Earth Orbit.

Offline aip

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #94 on: 11/15/2020 05:19 pm »
I've been going through old posts and saw a potential match for this piece in the SpaceX jigsaw puzzle:

And one metallic mystery module.

Might this be a prototype for the high bar viewing windows? It kind of makes sense to base the bar window design off of the Crew Access Arm at 39A.
« Last Edit: 11/19/2020 01:21 pm by Chris Bergin »

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #95 on: 11/15/2020 05:21 pm »
I've been going through old posts and saw a potential match for this piece in the SpaceX jigsaw puzzle:

And one metallic mystery module.

Might this be a prototype for the high bar viewing windows? It kind of makes sense to base the bar window design off of the Crew Access Arm at 39A.
Or - the bar IS a swing arm...
« Last Edit: 11/19/2020 01:21 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #96 on: 11/15/2020 06:13 pm »
Okay - I’ll just toss this out there once...

They set up a finished stand behind or beside the high bay. Plunk down SN5 or 6 on it. Add a fairing section to make it full size. Cut out the bulkhead centers. Run an elevator up inside it to a internal deck inside the nosecone. Put in a hatch (door). Connect it with the “swing arm” to the high bay top level - Star Bar.

Just sayin
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Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #97 on: 11/15/2020 06:50 pm »
Okay - I’ll just toss this out there once...

They set up a finished stand behind or beside the high bay. Plunk down SN5 or 6 on it. Add a fairing section to make it full size. Cut out the bulkhead centers. Run an elevator up inside it to a internal deck inside the nosecone. Put in a hatch (door). Connect it with the “swing arm” to the high bay top level - Star Bar.

Just sayin
High bay 81m?     SH 72m,     SS 50m     Stand ym?     So some combination needed... or a fake launch stand... most likely a shortened SH..... but most impressive would be the full 122m. However to make best use of the lift several exits and bridges to the HighBay at various levels would be useful! Quite a bit of strengthening needed to make it a permanent structure, however there is plenty of room inside for this.
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline Kit344

Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #98 on: 12/18/2020 03:57 pm »
I was reading about the history of Boca Chica on a couple of other websites, including Wikipedia.

I'm just trying to understand how many original residents of Boca Chica village are still living there ?

It seems to be possibly less than 10.
Does anyone here know the answer to this ?

I hope that this is appropriate for this forum, if not could you please point to a more suitable place.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #99 on: 12/18/2020 04:22 pm »
I was reading about the history of Boca Chica on a couple of other websites, including Wikipedia.

I'm just trying to understand how many original residents of Boca Chica village are still living there ?

It seems to be possibly less than 10.
Does anyone here know the answer to this ?

I hope that this is appropriate for this forum, if not could you please point to a more suitable place.

Check out this thread, much more info and probably a better place to ask: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=49090.0

Offline Kit344

Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #100 on: 12/18/2020 04:34 pm »
I was reading about the history of Boca Chica on a couple of other websites, including Wikipedia.

I'm just trying to understand how many original residents of Boca Chica village are still living there ?

It seems to be possibly less than 10.
Does anyone here know the answer to this ?

I hope that this is appropriate for this forum, if not could you please point to a more suitable place.

Check out this thread, much more info and probably a better place to ask: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=49090.0

Thanks, I just found that after I posted here, it seems like the less than 10 was about right.
I had previously assumed that it was closer to 50 or 100.

Offline kessdawg

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #101 on: 01/12/2021 05:25 pm »
Not sure how official it is, but the Boca Chica restaurant has a listing on Google Maps. The Prancing Pony

Offline Tommyboy

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #102 on: 01/12/2021 06:52 pm »
Not sure how official it is, but the Boca Chica restaurant has a listing on Google Maps. The Prancing Pony
For the people like me who have to google that reference: It's from The Lord of the Rings.

Offline raivo45

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #103 on: 01/12/2021 07:04 pm »
Pretty sure anyone can add these location names on google maps. Elon called it "The Pranching Pony", while responding to someone on Twitter a few days ago. Probably not serious tho...  :'(

Offline jstrotha0975

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #104 on: 01/12/2021 08:54 pm »
I've been trying to push Starship Dining Facility myself.
« Last Edit: 01/13/2021 03:23 pm by jstrotha0975 »

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #105 on: 01/14/2021 08:15 pm »
Pretty sure anyone can add these location names on google maps. Elon called it "The Pranching Pony", while responding to someone on Twitter a few days ago. Probably not serious tho...  :'(

AIUI. A tweet by Elon is official notice of something in one of his companies. Unless clarified or cancel in a later tweet.
 

Offline raivo45

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #106 on: 01/15/2021 03:43 pm »
Pretty sure anyone can add these location names on google maps. Elon called it "The Pranching Pony", while responding to someone on Twitter a few days ago. Probably not serious tho...  :'(

AIUI. A tweet by Elon is official notice of something in one of his companies. Unless clarified or cancel in a later tweet.

I said that he's probably not serious because I assume "The Prancing Pony" is probably copyrighted/trademarked by whoever owns the rights to Tolkien's books. I don't really know how these things work so I might be wrong...

Online edzieba

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #107 on: 01/15/2021 04:16 pm »
Pretty sure anyone can add these location names on google maps. Elon called it "The Pranching Pony", while responding to someone on Twitter a few days ago. Probably not serious tho...  :'(

AIUI. A tweet by Elon is official notice of something in one of his companies. Unless clarified or cancel in a later tweet.

I said that he's probably not serious because I assume "The Prancing Pony" is probably copyrighted/trademarked by whoever owns the rights to Tolkien's books. I don't really know how these things work so I might be wrong...
Copyright does not work that way (you cannot name a fictional entity in a book/film/etc and then attempt to demands rights for that name from real entities). And there are already multiple pubs (and other establishments) worldwide named 'The Prancing Pony'.

Offline waveney

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #108 on: 01/15/2021 06:13 pm »
Pretty sure anyone can add these location names on google maps. Elon called it "The Pranching Pony", while responding to someone on Twitter a few days ago. Probably not serious tho...  :'(

AIUI. A tweet by Elon is official notice of something in one of his companies. Unless clarified or cancel in a later tweet.

I said that he's probably not serious because I assume "The Prancing Pony" is probably copyrighted/trademarked by whoever owns the rights to Tolkien's books. I don't really know how these things work so I might be wrong...
Copyright does not work that way (you cannot name a fictional entity in a book/film/etc and then attempt to demands rights for that name from real entities). And there are already multiple pubs (and other establishments) worldwide named 'The Prancing Pony'.

Trademarking is a much stronger protection, but it requires it to have been explicitly trademarked and fees paid around the world to maintain the protection.   Copyrighting is much much weaker (but free).  A phrase such as "The Prancing Pony" is not copywriteable, but it could have been trademarked (but wont have been).

Offline DistantTemple

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #109 on: 01/15/2021 07:10 pm »
Pretty sure anyone can add these location names on google maps. Elon called it "The Pranching Pony", while responding to someone on Twitter a few days ago. Probably not serious tho...  :'(

AIUI. A tweet by Elon is official notice of something in one of his companies. Unless clarified or cancel in a later tweet.

I said that he's probably not serious because I assume "The Prancing Pony" is probably copyrighted/trademarked by whoever owns the rights to Tolkien's books. I don't really know how these things work so I might be wrong...
Copyright does not work that way (you cannot name a fictional entity in a book/film/etc and then attempt to demands rights for that name from real entities). And there are already multiple pubs (and other establishments) worldwide named 'The Prancing Pony'.

Trademarking is a much stronger protection, but it requires it to have been explicitly trademarked and fees paid around the world to maintain the protection.   Copyrighting is much much weaker (but free).  A phrase such as "The Prancing Pony" is not copywriteable, but it could have been trademarked (but wont have been).
Since Elon called this "The Prancing Pony", I predict that the first settlement on Mars will be called Rivendell.
It also suggests that Mars is only the first step, and as Gwynne says, Musk's aim for Mars is limited, but the aim is to be "out there among the stars".
I suggest Elon has sold us the Mars objective, as its achievable, and has the justification of preserving the seed of humanity, whereas privately to him this is the beginning of a much longer journey.
« Last Edit: 01/15/2021 08:26 pm by DistantTemple »
We can always grow new new dendrites. Reach out and make connections and your world will burst with new insights. Then repose in consciousness.

Offline Lar

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #110 on: 01/16/2021 02:31 am »
Since Elon called this "The Prancing Pony", I predict that the first settlement on Mars will be called Rivendell.
It also suggests that Mars is only the first step, and as Gwynne says, Musk's aim for Mars is limited, but the aim is to be "out there among the stars".
I suggest Elon has sold us the Mars objective, as its achievable, and has the justification of preserving the seed of humanity, whereas privately to him this is the beginning of a much longer journey.
The Stars, our Destiny. 
O that I live to see that day.

Let's bring it back on topic tho....
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Eka

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #111 on: 01/16/2021 06:06 pm »
Pretty sure anyone can add these location names on google maps. Elon called it "The Pranching Pony", while responding to someone on Twitter a few days ago. Probably not serious tho...  :'(

AIUI. A tweet by Elon is official notice of something in one of his companies. Unless clarified or cancel in a later tweet.

I said that he's probably not serious because I assume "The Prancing Pony" is probably copyrighted/trademarked by whoever owns the rights to Tolkien's books. I don't really know how these things work so I might be wrong...
Copyright does not work that way (you cannot name a fictional entity in a book/film/etc and then attempt to demands rights for that name from real entities). And there are already multiple pubs (and other establishments) worldwide named 'The Prancing Pony'.

Trademarking is a much stronger protection, but it requires it to have been explicitly trademarked and fees paid around the world to maintain the protection.   Copyrighting is much much weaker (but free).  A phrase such as "The Prancing Pony" is not copywriteable, but it could have been trademarked (but wont have been).
Since Elon called this "The Prancing Pony", I predict that the first settlement on Mars will be called Rivendell.
It also suggests that Mars is only the first step, and as Gwynne says, Musk's aim for Mars is limited, but the aim is to be "out there among the stars".
I suggest Elon has sold us the Mars objective, as its achievable, and has the justification of preserving the seed of humanity, whereas privately to him this is the beginning of a much longer journey.
Gwynne is the star one. Her goal is to go to the stars.

As for The Prancing Pony, that name is ancient. The first use of it is likely lost to time.
We talk about creating a Star Trek future, but will end up with The Expanse if radical change doesn't happen.

Offline RoadWithoutEnd

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #112 on: 01/20/2021 11:07 am »
The restaurant is low-key gonna end up very interesting.  I think it was Mary who said that Elon's letting the landscapers play around with the look and the design strategy.  The way everything just seems to look cooler and cooler over time in BC, that place could end up being a surprise diamond.
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Offline LMT

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #113 on: 01/26/2021 03:31 pm »
Resort trivia:  The first attempted rocket-assisted landing at Boca Chica occurred in 1933. 

Prelude to Boca Chica spacediving?

"The rocketeer who never was"
-by Mark Wade

Quote
By April 1933, Swan lined up an agreement with a newspaper for a spectacular stunt in Texas. As part of a skydiving exhibition at the Del Mar Beach Resort on Boca Chica, he worked out an elaborate routine. He would bail out of an aircraft, dropping flares and rockets on small chutes as he was in free fall. Finally he would ignite a rocket strapped to his back and head toward the beach, to land in front of the crowd.
« Last Edit: 01/27/2021 12:19 pm by LMT »

Offline Ludus

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Re: Boca Chica Resort
« Reply #114 on: 07/05/2021 10:34 pm »
I was curious how far Starbase was from South Padre Island with an existing resort community so I looked on Google Earth. The Starbase work is too recent to even show up, so it shows things before that.

Turns out Boca Chica/ Starbase is 5.5 miles from South Padre Island in a straight line. About 11 miles of Loop tunnels would let Starbase be only a few minutes from South Padre resorts for authorized people but restrict access to others.

South Padre Island seems much better suited as a place for employees and visitors or for SpaceX to build anything related to that rather than right next to Starbase itself. The problem is it’s too far away by road. Loop would correct that.


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