Don't care about sailors and what not. I was wondering if workers have already been seen walking on the chopstick arms while they have been up. I can't recall seeing this, but maybe someone else has?
Elon Musk@elonmuskReplying to @elonmusk @DimaZeniuk and 10 othersAnd we need to add 3 more Raptor Vacuum engines, because it’s inevitable9:03 PM · Apr 8, 2023·55.7K Views
Found this interesting tweet regarding a potential stretched variant of the Starship:https://twitter.com/TylerG1998/status/1644878801770278913If Musk is to be believed, SpaceX may be in the early stages of conceptualizing a taller Starship version measuring over 420 feet tall, bigger than the Interplanetary Transport System proposal (the initial design study for the Starship).
Quote from: Vahe231991 on 04/09/2023 03:45 amFound this interesting tweet regarding a potential stretched variant of the Starship:If Musk is to be believed, SpaceX may be in the early stages of conceptualizing a taller Starship version measuring over 420 feet tall, bigger than the Interplanetary Transport System proposal (the initial design study for the Starship).An extra 10m is an extra 5 segments. That's a lot more fuel.Each segment weighs 1.6t, so along with 3x3 = 9t of RaptorVac engines the dry mass increases 17t and with 3t of extra landing fuel means non-payload mass to LEO increases by 20t.OTOH, instead of 1200t of fuel, at 9m * 4.52 * pi * 0.8t/m3 = 570t of extra fuel to LEO, or 1770t of fuel total.With 6.5 km/sec deltaV required to get to LEO and an exhaust velocity of 3.6km/sec that's a mass ratio of 6, so that's 370t to LEO, or about 220t of payload.Reusable.So those extra 5 rings and 3 raptor Vacs will double the payload to LEO.That's going to allow Mars Injection boosts from LEO with only 3 refuelings, and only 8 refuelings to get a full load of fuel.
Found this interesting tweet regarding a potential stretched variant of the Starship:If Musk is to be believed, SpaceX may be in the early stages of conceptualizing a taller Starship version measuring over 420 feet tall, bigger than the Interplanetary Transport System proposal (the initial design study for the Starship).
Quote from: InterestedEngineer on 04/09/2023 10:42 pmQuote from: Vahe231991 on 04/09/2023 03:45 amFound this interesting tweet regarding a potential stretched variant of the Starship:If Musk is to be believed, SpaceX may be in the early stages of conceptualizing a taller Starship version measuring over 420 feet tall, bigger than the Interplanetary Transport System proposal (the initial design study for the Starship).An extra 10m is an extra 5 segments. That's a lot more fuel.Each segment weighs 1.6t, so along with 3x3 = 9t of RaptorVac engines the dry mass increases 17t and with 3t of extra landing fuel means non-payload mass to LEO increases by 20t.OTOH, instead of 1200t of fuel, at 9m * 4.52 * pi * 0.8t/m3 = 570t of extra fuel to LEO, or 1770t of fuel total.With 6.5 km/sec deltaV required to get to LEO and an exhaust velocity of 3.6km/sec that's a mass ratio of 6, so that's 370t to LEO, or about 220t of payload.Reusable.So those extra 5 rings and 3 raptor Vacs will double the payload to LEO.That's going to allow Mars Injection boosts from LEO with only 3 refuelings, and only 8 refuelings to get a full load of fuel.Would the Mechazilla need to be taller to incorporate this increase? Might explain why the tower at Roberts Road hasn't been stacked yet (Just waiting for this change to occur)??
Quote from: catdlr on 04/09/2023 10:49 pmQuote from: InterestedEngineer on 04/09/2023 10:42 pmQuote from: Vahe231991 on 04/09/2023 03:45 amFound this interesting tweet regarding a potential stretched variant of the Starship:If Musk is to be believed, SpaceX may be in the early stages of conceptualizing a taller Starship version measuring over 420 feet tall, bigger than the Interplanetary Transport System proposal (the initial design study for the Starship).An extra 10m is an extra 5 segments. That's a lot more fuel.Each segment weighs 1.6t, so along with 3x3 = 9t of RaptorVac engines the dry mass increases 17t and with 3t of extra landing fuel means non-payload mass to LEO increases by 20t.OTOH, instead of 1200t of fuel, at 9m * 4.52 * pi * 0.8t/m3 = 570t of extra fuel to LEO, or 1770t of fuel total.With 6.5 km/sec deltaV required to get to LEO and an exhaust velocity of 3.6km/sec that's a mass ratio of 6, so that's 370t to LEO, or about 220t of payload.Reusable.So those extra 5 rings and 3 raptor Vacs will double the payload to LEO.That's going to allow Mars Injection boosts from LEO with only 3 refuelings, and only 8 refuelings to get a full load of fuel.Would the Mechazilla need to be taller to incorporate this increase? Might explain why the tower at Roberts Road hasn't been stacked yet (Just waiting for this change to occur)??Gonna need a bigger crane.(queue Jaws meme)
Superheavy’s grid fins are a key part of the vehicle’s recovery hardware, but the perpetually extended state looks quite different compared to Falcon 9. Let’s take a look at how these grid fins work and why they can stay extended at all times. (1/10)📸 @RGVaerialphotos
The 4 grid fins are arranged in a 120-60-120-60 pattern, unlike the equal spacing on Falcon 9. Elon stated in the first @erdayastronaut tour that they are positioned this way to increase pitch control, which is optimal for Superheavy. (2/10)🖼️ @ChameleonCir
These grid fins can pivot freely, however, they are NOT able to fold down. Removing the folding system deletes the extra complexity and potential failure areas that may be introduced. (3/10)🖼️ @ChameleonCir
If we look at them from the top, we can see that they really are quite thin. During some portions of the flight, there may be drag produced that isn’t optimal, however, SpaceX believes that the benefits outweigh the negatives. (4/10)📸 @RGVaerialphotos
There have been 2 grid fin designs to date. The first debuted on B4 and was a 4x4 grid pattern. B7 introduced a new design with a tighter 6x6 grid. Both of these have been made of welded steel unlike those cut from a single titanium block on Falcon 9 . (5/10)🖼️ @ChameleonCir
On the Booster’s forward dome, 4 electric motor assemblies and 4 pivoting points are placed on an L-channel to connect with the fins. This hardware is installed before stacking the Booster in the bays. (6/10)📸 @RGVaerialphotos
Before we get into how the grid fins are actually moved, let’s look at the fins themselves. The back side has 1 large pivot point in the middle and a smaller attachment point coming off of it to connect to the motor. (7/10)📸 @CosmicalChief
Once the grid fin is inserted into the Booster, the pivot point connects to the receptacle in the Booster and a curved component connects the motor assembly to the grid fin. When complete, the grid fins can be controlled freely. (8/10)🖼️ @ChameleonCir
Booster 7, and this time-lapsed clip shows some of the tests that they get put through. It’s sort of similar to how the flaps on the Ships get tested periodically. (9/10)🎥 @NASASpaceflight
As we approach the first launch, hopefully, we get to see Booster 7 actually use these grid fins to control itself and steer toward the targeted splashdown zone, but no matter what, it will be quite a sight to see. (10/10)
Quote from: Vahe231991 on 04/09/2023 03:45 amFound this interesting tweet regarding a potential stretched variant of the Starship:https://twitter.com/TylerG1998/status/1644878801770278913If Musk is to be believed, SpaceX may be in the early stages of conceptualizing a taller Starship version measuring over 420 feet tall, bigger than the Interplanetary Transport System proposal (the initial design study for the Starship).I wouldn’t think of it that way. It’ll just stretch over time like most launch vehicles, including especially Falcon 9.
ok, but grid fins, are not used for booster flight guide path, right? Are not capables for that, I know are basically for hold booster vertical, right?
...Catching the Starship is a completed different thing. I would think they would land on a pad to begin with and then be transported back to the tower for stacking. ...
Quote from: joek on 04/10/2023 01:50 pmQuote from: spacenut on 04/10/2023 01:38 pm...Catching the Starship is a completed different thing. I would think they would land on a pad to begin with and then be transported back to the tower for stacking. ...Starship pad landing would require legs or ...? Have we seen any indication of such on later starships?They could add legs, but I doubt it. Crashing on the pad (which is now much smaller) causes all kinds of problems with debris.I think they will keep landing in the ocean until they are confident enough about the level of precision needed to land on the chopsticks.
Quote from: spacenut on 04/10/2023 01:38 pm...Catching the Starship is a completed different thing. I would think they would land on a pad to begin with and then be transported back to the tower for stacking. ...Starship pad landing would require legs or ...? Have we seen any indication of such on later starships?
The grid fins are strong enough to catch the booster using the chopsticks on the tower. IF the booster is ever stretched, the chopsticks would have to be higher on the tower for catching.
Quote from: RamsesBic on 04/10/2023 01:55 pmQuote from: joek on 04/10/2023 01:50 pmQuote from: spacenut on 04/10/2023 01:38 pm...Catching the Starship is a completed different thing. I would think they would land on a pad to begin with and then be transported back to the tower for stacking. ...Starship pad landing would require legs or ...? Have we seen any indication of such on later starships?They could add legs, but I doubt it. Crashing on the pad (which is now much smaller) causes all kinds of problems with debris.I think they will keep landing in the ocean until they are confident enough about the level of precision needed to land on the chopsticks.In other words get booster catching reliable and routine and then try to catch starship. In the meantime I would expect legs for landing the starship just to test it out(legs) and be able to inspect the heat shield.
