Author Topic: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida  (Read 206407 times)

Offline Jcc

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #220 on: 09/19/2020 09:55 pm »
This suddenly got really interesting:
So can anyone explain what purpose the evaporation unit serves in a methane production process?   The simplest explanation may just be that they have some wastewater to get rid of.

If they are doing electrolysis, that may require very pure water (distilled).  In which case they need to re-condense the steam rather than venting it, so they will need to add condensing coils or something. Maybe they are just testing out the boiler.
The same company sells other units with a condenser.  The Flash unit seems to only be used when the evaporated water isn't needed for another purpose.

OK, but where is the water coming from that is being evaporated, and why? After another look at the above video, maybe the water supply for electrolysis is going through reverse osmosis purification in one of the trailers, which will produce waste brine, and that is what the flash evaporator is for.

Offline danneely

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #221 on: 09/19/2020 10:38 pm »
This suddenly got really interesting:
So can anyone explain what purpose the evaporation unit serves in a methane production process?   The simplest explanation may just be that they have some wastewater to get rid of.

If they are doing electrolysis, that may require very pure water (distilled).  In which case they need to re-condense the steam rather than venting it, so they will need to add condensing coils or something. Maybe they are just testing out the boiler.
The same company sells other units with a condenser.  The Flash unit seems to only be used when the evaporated water isn't needed for another purpose.

OK, but where is the water coming from that is being evaporated, and why? After another look at the above video, maybe the water supply for electrolysis is going through reverse osmosis purification in one of the trailers, which will produce waste brine, and that is what the flash evaporator is for.

If you evaporate brine, you'll end up with nasty crusty and corroded heating elements.

Offline Nevyn72

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #222 on: 09/19/2020 11:02 pm »
I find this whole concept of evaporating the 'waste' water to atmosphere somewhat strange.

Why invest all that time and money in equipment and energy when you could just pipe it a short distance sideways into the pond on the adjacent land?  ???

Offline Jcc

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #223 on: 09/19/2020 11:15 pm »
I find this whole concept of evaporating the 'waste' water to atmosphere somewhat strange.

Why invest all that time and money in equipment and energy when you could just pipe it a short distance sideways into the pond on the adjacent land?  ???

If the brine is excessively concentrated you would violate environmental regulations by doing so. They sell the equipment for that purpose, check the website.
https://www.purestream.com/project-3

One last edit to this post: the “fracking fluid” trailers mentioned in the video are probably there to hold the brine to be transported offsite for disposal. If the flash evaporator takes out 90% of the water, that is 1/10th the number of trailer loads that have to be removed.
« Last Edit: 09/20/2020 02:15 pm by Jcc »

Offline Jcc

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #224 on: 10/04/2020 01:17 am »
I don’t see a need to produce large quantities of LOX in Cocoa. Doesn’t KSC and CCAFS have a ready supply?


Offline grimlocks

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #225 on: 12/27/2020 08:36 am »
Whatever they're doing, they're still doing it.
https://twitter.com/John_Winkopp/status/1338259704821276672

Offline sghill

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #226 on: 01/03/2021 11:04 am »
I don’t see a need to produce large quantities of LOX in Cocoa. Doesn’t KSC and CCAFS have a ready supply?

Do you see them needing to produce Methane at Cocoa (which was where the speculation started)?  I assume if this is what they are actually doing, it's just a development setup.


Step 1 is getting a Starship to Mars. Step 2 is bringing it back.

Perhaps they are experimenting with the ISRU plant design for LOX and methane. It's on the critical system development path, it is needed early-on, and there are benefits to having it even during the testing program.

Deployable, transportable ISRU production development is a major program in its own right, and probably deserves its own discussion thread, but I can see them starting work on it a good long while ago to meet future deadlines.

Also, I recall Jim stating once that the LOX used at KSC and CCAFS is brought in by train. Can't do that on Mars.
« Last Edit: 01/03/2021 11:10 am by sghill »
Bring the thunder!

Online gongora

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #227 on: 01/03/2021 02:39 pm »
Where did this discussion on making methane and lox come from?  Those seem like rather odd conclusions based on the equipment shown.

Offline Jcc

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #228 on: 01/10/2021 02:50 pm »
Where did this discussion on making methane and lox come from?  Those seem like rather odd conclusions based on the equipment shown.

It came from this:

This suddenly got really interesting:



Offline ThatOldJanxSpirit

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #229 on: 02/06/2021 05:59 pm »
Lots more interesting stuff at Cisco, from John Winkopp on twitter


https://mobile.twitter.com/john_winkopp/status/1357798272123998208?s=21

Offline harrystranger

Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #230 on: 02/24/2021 04:06 am »
It can be really hard to interpret satellite imagery! Local knowledge & an understanding of an area’s history are crucial pieces of the puzzle.
- Rob Simmon

Offline sdsds

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #231 on: 02/24/2021 04:39 am »
[...] Some plans in PDF's below.

Of note is an argon tank in the existing warehouse. Welding? Or plasma propulsion? Hmm. (See attachment 1.)

Better though is the hot tub. Like the argon tank it's shown in the Plans-3.pdf. And sure enough, Google Maps satellite imagery confirms it's there. Party on!! (See attachments 2 & 3.)
— 𝐬𝐝𝐒𝐝𝐬 —

Offline hoku

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #232 on: 02/24/2021 08:33 pm »
https://twitter.com/octagrabber/status/1364283801984249857

Is there any sighting of Octagrabber #3 being assembled at Cidco Rd.? The "all knowing", so somewhat cryptic Octagrabber tweet account hints at this.

Offline deadman1204

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #233 on: 02/24/2021 08:37 pm »
Lots more interesting stuff at Cisco, from John Winkopp on twitter


https://mobile.twitter.com/john_winkopp/status/1357798272123998208?s=21

That youtube is SUPER suspect and doubtful. Its gonna be a LONG time before rocket fuel can be made on mars. The entire mining and processing thing tends to get waved over with a magic wand. Its not a solved problem. Its a decade of testing and work if your very lucky and EXTREMELY well funded.

Offline MTom

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #234 on: 02/24/2021 11:13 pm »
Lots more interesting stuff at Cisco, from John Winkopp on twitter


https://mobile.twitter.com/john_winkopp/status/1357798272123998208?s=21

That youtube is SUPER suspect and doubtful. Its gonna be a LONG time before rocket fuel can be made on mars. The entire mining and processing thing tends to get waved over with a magic wand. Its not a solved problem. Its a decade of testing and work if your very lucky and EXTREMELY well funded.

In the mentioned video there are a lot of facts collected. There are some speculation too, while trying to connecting the dots.
What is suspect there? Could you point it?

Offline hoku

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #235 on: 03/19/2021 10:00 am »
https://twitter.com/octagrabber/status/1364283801984249857

Is there any sighting of Octagrabber #3 being assembled at Cidco Rd.? The "all knowing", so somewhat cryptic Octagrabber tweet account hints at this.

... OG3 has been spotted - cudos to

https://twitter.com/SpaceXFleet/status/1372707651814047744
https://twitter.com/LPS16319016/status/1372712618033618945

Offline enbandi

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #236 on: 04/02/2021 11:11 pm »
From a recent permit application:
Quote
2. FACILITY DESCRIPTION
The Cidco facility is located at 850 Cidco Road in Cocoa, Florida. Previously used for rocket subassemblies, SpaceX now uses the Cidco facility as a base for miscellaneous operations to support SpaceX’s other facilities throughout the Brevard County area. The Cidco facility consists of a warehouse with two large bays; an attached machine shop and spray booth; an outdoor covered abrasive blasting area; a vehicle refueling station with three (3) 500-gallon aboveground tanks for storing non-road diesel, diesel, and/or gasoline;2 a separate covered area (i.e. Big Tent) where metal panels are cut with plasma cutters and a water jet; and a new nitric acid-based silica purification process equipped with an industrial wastewater evaporation tower. The Cidco facility was previously the site of rocket assembly but is now used exclusively for the activities detailed below in support of SpaceX’s rocket launch operations. With the exception of plasma cutters, the various activities at the Cidco facility are exempt from air construction permitting.

2.1 Warehouse
The warehouse consists of two bays, a machine shop, and a spray booth. The various fabrication processes which take place at the Cidco facility are used to create custom piping systems, support structures, control panels,  and other miscellaneous equipment required for SpaceX’s rocket launch operations. These activities are carried out primarily in the main warehouse at the Cidco facility. The West Bay is open to the atmosphere on the north and south ends and is devoted to cutting and welding of large pipes and beams.3 The East Bay is enclosed and includes various work-stations where control panels are fabricated. An attached machine shop is home to a variety of metal lathes, where custom parts and fittings are made. 

2.2  Spray Booth and Abrasive Blasting
The spray booth is located in the north-east corner of the main warehouse. The spray booth is used for coating support structures and other equipment to be used at SpaceX’s rocket launch pads. Prior to spray coating, items are first taken to the abrasive blasting booth behind the warehouse. The booth is enclosed on two sides and is partially covered by a netting on the two open sides. The netting mitigates the release of dust from blasting activities. Structures are blasted with grinding material (e.g., Starblast) to clean the surface in preparation for coating.4 Once the surface has been blasted clean, the structures are moved to the spray booth for coating. Coating operations are conducted inside the spray booth with gravity-fed spray guns.5 Emissions from the spray booth are controlled by a dust collector and fume hood which filter particulate matter (PM) from overspray before exhausting to the atmosphere.

2.3 Big Tent
The Big Tent is a covered area separated from the main warehouse. The Big Tent houses a plasma cutter used to cut metal sheets (EU001) and a water jet used to carve custom panels from sheet metal.6 Plasma cutting operations include cutting of various metal components used at the launch and landing pads for rockets and spacecraft, as well as repair of these components and structures. The tent is enclosed with openings on the north and south sides of the tent. Emissions from plasma cutting activities are controlled by a fume extraction system.

2.4 Silica Purification Process
The Cidco facility also includes a silica purification process. Bales of silica fibers are treated to be used in the manufacture of light-weight “bricks” used on the exterior of spacecraft. These bricks are manufactured at a separate SpaceX facility.   Bales of silica fiber are delivered to the Cidco facility for processing and purification before being used as raw material for brick production. Bales weigh approximately 25 kilograms and are stored in a covered storage pavilion. To begin processing, bales are loaded manually into an insulation blower which cuts the fibers into small pieces before blowing the silica into a series of heated tanks of nitric acid. SpaceX can process a single bale in 10-15 minutes.  The series of nitric acid tanks are fed by a 68% nitric acid solution delivered to the Cidco facility by truck. The solution is diluted to 15% nitric acid solution in the first tank with hot water produced by a series of four (4) natural gas-fired hot water heaters. Each natural gas heater has a maximum heat input capacity of  0.199 MMBtu/hr. Hot water generated using the hot water heaters is also circulated in coils around tanks to maintain the tanks at a target temperature. The nitric acid concentration is diluted in each progressive tank. After passing through the final tank, the silica-acid solution is discharged with a concentration of 1.5% nitric acid solution into a rotary drum which separates the silica slurry from the solution.   The silica slurry is shipped to another SpaceX facility located in Cape Canaveral and the acid solution is neutralized to a pH between 6 and 8 and sent to an evaporation tower. The evaporation tower has a maximum heat input capacity of 7.5 MMBtu/hr and combusts natural gas to heat and evaporate the wastewater generated in the silica preparation process.7 Emissions of PM resulting from dissolved solids in the wastewater are controlled by the tower’s packed bed mist eliminators.

Offline Jansen

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #237 on: 04/06/2021 08:31 pm »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #238 on: 05/15/2021 12:05 pm »
twitter.com/julia_bergeron/status/1393537522056192001

Quote
It appears a new stack has been added to the Starship heat shield processing area at Cidco Rd. Activity continues today on Octagrabber 3 which is expected to be onboard A Shortfall of Gravitas, currently located in Fourchon being readied for operations.

Edit to add:

https://twitter.com/julia_bergeron/status/1393540562377220096

Quote
Inbound! More of Octagrabbers structure happened to arrive as I was leaving.
« Last Edit: 05/15/2021 12:36 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Online matthewkantar

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Re: Cidco Rd. Manufacturing Site in Cocoa, Florida
« Reply #239 on: 05/15/2021 04:57 pm »
twitter.com/julia_bergeron/status/1393537522056192001

Quote
It appears a new stack has been added to the Starship heat shield processing area at Cidco Rd. Activity continues today on Octagrabber 3 which is expected to be onboard A Shortfall of Gravitas, currently located in Fourchon being readied for operations.

Edit to add:

https://twitter.com/julia_bergeron/status/1393540562377220096

Quote
Inbound! More of Octagrabbers structure happened to arrive as I was leaving.

I am pretty sure those are a a pair of self tipping hoppers.

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