Poll

Should IPD be considered on the timeline of the Raptor development?

Yes, IPD milestones directly flowed into Raptor.
5 (15.6%)
Yes, But only include the milestones I'll post about.
1 (3.1%)
Yes, But only as a general disclaimer at the beginning of the timeline.
10 (31.3%)
No, IPD milestones flowed into Raptor but all technology builds on past technology.
8 (25%)
No.
8 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Voting closed: 08/25/2020 07:14 pm


Author Topic: SpaceX Raptor engine - General Thread 2  (Read 1289126 times)

Offline Ocisly

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Re: SpaceX Raptor engine - General Thread 2
« Reply #2800 on: 02/03/2021 03:48 pm »
Raptor does seem to be still quite fragile, at least during start-up transients.  Making a highly reusable engine with record breaking chamber pressures and thermal fatigue inducing wall heat fluxes is exceptionally difficult and with over 50 built to date (a similar number to the entire shuttle program for RS25's), we are still seeing regular swap outs from hot fires of test vehicles.  This debugging phase of development could be resolved already or it could take years to identify and fix the issues.  With 40 ish engines on a Starship launch they are going to need highly reliable engines very soon.
Careful, you'll be accused of "concern trolling". Way too many amazing peoples who are denying reality. Raptors will be the limiting factor in getting to orbit.

Wrong.

The engines have worked fine on the way up, functioning flawlessly for more than four and a half minutes. These engines would have no problem "in getting to orbit." The problems have occurred while trying to land.

Furthermore, the section of EDL currently being tested is very likely a lot easier than than the initial atmospheric interface upon return from Mars.

Name calling further harms the veracity of your unreasoned post , btw. Some of us have seen a test program before.

The problem with the raptors is that starting them results in damages 50% of the time. They are still experimental and not up to the task of spaceflight.

Offline kevinof

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Re: SpaceX Raptor engine - General Thread 2
« Reply #2801 on: 02/03/2021 03:55 pm »
You don't know that. You don't know it was a raptor problem and are just guessing and have provided zero evidence.

They had two flights and 6 raptors fired and kept going for the full flight. The issue on relight may be a vehicle problem and nothing to do with the raptor.


Raptor does seem to be still quite fragile, at least during start-up transients.  Making a highly reusable engine with record breaking chamber pressures and thermal fatigue inducing wall heat fluxes is exceptionally difficult and with over 50 built to date (a similar number to the entire shuttle program for RS25's), we are still seeing regular swap outs from hot fires of test vehicles.  This debugging phase of development could be resolved already or it could take years to identify and fix the issues.  With 40 ish engines on a Starship launch they are going to need highly reliable engines very soon.
Careful, you'll be accused of "concern trolling". Way too many amazing peoples who are denying reality. Raptors will be the limiting factor in getting to orbit.

Wrong.

The engines have worked fine on the way up, functioning flawlessly for more than four and a half minutes. These engines would have no problem "in getting to orbit." The problems have occurred while trying to land.

Furthermore, the section of EDL currently being tested is very likely a lot easier than than the initial atmospheric interface upon return from Mars.

Name calling further harms the veracity of your unreasoned post , btw. Some of us have seen a test program before.

The problem with the raptors is that starting them results in damages 50% of the time. They are still experimental and not up to the task of spaceflight.

Offline Ocisly

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Re: SpaceX Raptor engine - General Thread 2
« Reply #2802 on: 02/03/2021 03:58 pm »
You don't know that. You don't know it was a raptor problem and are just guessing and have provided zero evidence.

They had two flights and 6 raptors fired and kept going for the full flight. The issue on relight may be a vehicle problem and nothing to do with the raptor.


Raptor does seem to be still quite fragile, at least during start-up transients.  Making a highly reusable engine with record breaking chamber pressures and thermal fatigue inducing wall heat fluxes is exceptionally difficult and with over 50 built to date (a similar number to the entire shuttle program for RS25's), we are still seeing regular swap outs from hot fires of test vehicles.  This debugging phase of development could be resolved already or it could take years to identify and fix the issues.  With 40 ish engines on a Starship launch they are going to need highly reliable engines very soon.
Careful, you'll be accused of "concern trolling". Way too many amazing peoples who are denying reality. Raptors will be the limiting factor in getting to orbit.

Wrong.

The engines have worked fine on the way up, functioning flawlessly for more than four and a half minutes. These engines would have no problem "in getting to orbit." The problems have occurred while trying to land.

Furthermore, the section of EDL currently being tested is very likely a lot easier than than the initial atmospheric interface upon return from Mars.

Name calling further harms the veracity of your unreasoned post , btw. Some of us have seen a test program before.

The problem with the raptors is that starting them results in damages 50% of the time. They are still experimental and not up to the task of spaceflight.

I could go through all the times raptors have had to be replaced or fixed from static fires but I cba.

Offline kessdawg

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Re: SpaceX Raptor engine - General Thread 2
« Reply #2803 on: 02/03/2021 04:37 pm »
Can we please put the quote above the response in posts? It makes reading nested quotes easier.

Re: SpaceX Raptor engine - General Thread 2
« Reply #2804 on: 02/03/2021 04:57 pm »
Raptor does seem to be still quite fragile, at least during start-up transients.  Making a highly reusable engine with record breaking chamber pressures and thermal fatigue inducing wall heat fluxes is exceptionally difficult and with over 50 built to date (a similar number to the entire shuttle program for RS25's), we are still seeing regular swap outs from hot fires of test vehicles.  This debugging phase of development could be resolved already or it could take years to identify and fix the issues.  With 40 ish engines on a Starship launch they are going to need highly reliable engines very soon.
Careful, you'll be accused of "concern trolling". Way too many amazing peoples who are denying reality. Raptors will be the limiting factor in getting to orbit.

I find it a bit baffling that I reported this post and the only result is a mod actually liking it...  Itís clearly disrespectful. I donít like it when people dismiss others as concern-trolls, but calling everyone that disagrees with you a amazing people in denial is even worse. The poster could have expressed their opinion in a respectful manner, and choose not to. If  one did the same and went to the sls  section of the forum saying Ďthere are too many sls amazing peoples here denying reality etc.í the post would be rightfully removed, and I donít understand why the same doesnít apply here.
Failure is not only an option, it's the only way to learn.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the custody of fire" - Gustav Mahler

Offline Ocisly

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Re: SpaceX Raptor engine - General Thread 2
« Reply #2805 on: 02/03/2021 05:08 pm »
Raptor does seem to be still quite fragile, at least during start-up transients.  Making a highly reusable engine with record breaking chamber pressures and thermal fatigue inducing wall heat fluxes is exceptionally difficult and with over 50 built to date (a similar number to the entire shuttle program for RS25's), we are still seeing regular swap outs from hot fires of test vehicles.  This debugging phase of development could be resolved already or it could take years to identify and fix the issues.  With 40 ish engines on a Starship launch they are going to need highly reliable engines very soon.
Careful, you'll be accused of "concern trolling". Way too many amazing peoples who are denying reality. Raptors will be the limiting factor in getting to orbit.

I find it a bit baffling that I reported this post and the only result is a mod actually liking it...  Itís clearly disrespectful. I donít like it when people dismiss others as concern-trolls, but calling everyone that disagrees with you a amazing people in denial is even worse. The poster could have expressed their opinion in a respectful manner, and choose not to. If  one did the same and went to the sls  section of the forum saying Ďthere are too many sls amazing peoples here denying reality etc.í the post would be rightfully removed, and I donít understand why the same doesnít apply here.

My comment wasn't directed at anyone so I don't know why you would report it. It just frustrates me when you don't go along with the fantasies of colonies on Mars, rockets replacing airplanes etc. you get called a "concern troll" by rose tinted glasses wearing superfans.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2021 05:14 pm by Ocisly »

Online Chris Bergin

Re: SpaceX Raptor engine - General Thread 2
« Reply #2806 on: 02/03/2021 05:15 pm »
New thread time, given the handbags swinging here - leaving them above so people can see what we mean. Happens when you have a one million read thread and lots of posts - people lose focus and start bickering with one other person in front of thousands of people (why? It's not a good look! ;D )

New thread:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=52988.0
« Last Edit: 02/03/2021 05:21 pm by Chris Bergin »
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