Author Topic: Superluminal communication  (Read 14890 times)

Offline BSu

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Superluminal communication
« on: 06/29/2018 07:53 am »
Has there been any progress toward possible FTL communication for instant signaling between planets? If so would then then allow for communication into the near past (6-12 months)?

Offline nacnud

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #1 on: 06/29/2018 08:15 am »
No

Offline BSu

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #2 on: 06/29/2018 08:56 am »
Is there any active research in this field? I would  imagine it would be a topic of interest for a variety of reasons:

1. Real time communication (and control) with probes in space and other planets.

2. Real time communication with astronauts.

3. Possibilty of sending information backward in time.

Offline 1

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #3 on: 06/29/2018 10:07 am »
a) Welcome to the forum, but
b) you've posted the same question in three different threads. Please don't do that.

The answer, for all practical purposes, is 'no'. FTL only exists as a hypothetical concept.

Offline ppnl

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #4 on: 06/29/2018 05:05 pm »
Is there any active research in this field? I would  imagine it would be a topic of interest for a variety of reasons:

1. Real time communication (and control) with probes in space and other planets.

2. Real time communication with astronauts.

3. Possibilty of sending information backward in time.

There is very little to research as known science is pretty clear on the subject. If we ever do discover any FTL effect it will probably be from a totally unexpected result. Not something you can have a research project for.

Offline Bill Christie

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #5 on: 11/22/2018 10:46 pm »
Is there any active research in this field? I would  imagine it would be a topic of interest for a variety of reasons:

1. Real time communication (and control) with probes in space and other planets.

2. Real time communication with astronauts.

3. Possibilty of sending information backward in time.
We detect em wave signals front on only and therefore consider the travel time to be the distance divided by the speed of light. On average it takes about 14 minutes for light to get from Mars to earth. However, if matter is a rotating planar wave with greater velocity at greater radii, then signals would be instantaneous albeit very weak signals. If we could detect such weak signals, we might detect and communicate with intelligent life far away.
Real time communication might become possible, but I don't think going back in real time is (cause and effect).
 

Offline meberbs

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #6 on: 11/23/2018 07:13 pm »
We detect em wave signals front on only and therefore consider the travel time to be the distance divided by the speed of light. On average it takes about 14 minutes for light to get from Mars to earth. However, if matter is a rotating planar wave with greater velocity at greater radii, then signals would be instantaneous albeit very weak signals. If we could detect such weak signals, we might detect and communicate with intelligent life far away.
Real time communication might become possible, but I don't think going back in real time is (cause and effect).
I am not sure what you think you mean by "front on only" for em waves, but I think you are confused because that term does not make sense in context.

Your statement about "if matter is a rotating planar wave" does not fit with any possible view of the universe that is consistent with what we know about physics.

Your statement about real time communication being possible, while stating that time travel is not possible is inconsistent due to special relativity. Special relativity states that those 2 things are equivalent, because there is no universal definition of "instantaneous." There is no frame to consider the universal frame, so any instantaneous communication could be used to also send messages back in time and create a time loop.

Offline Bill Christie

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #7 on: 11/24/2018 06:53 am »
We detect em wave signals front on only and therefore consider the travel time to be the distance divided by the speed of light. On average it takes about 14 minutes for light to get from Mars to earth. However, if matter is a rotating planar wave with greater velocity at greater radii, then signals would be instantaneous albeit very weak signals. If we could detect such weak signals, we might detect and communicate with intelligent life far away.
Real time communication might become possible, but I don't think going back in real time is (cause and effect).
I am not sure what you think you mean by "front on only" for em waves, but I think you are confused because that term does not make sense in context.

Your statement about "if matter is a rotating planar wave" does not fit with any possible view of the universe that is consistent with what we know about physics.

Your statement about real time communication being possible, while stating that time travel is not possible is inconsistent due to special relativity. Special relativity states that those 2 things are equivalent, because there is no universal definition of "instantaneous." There is no frame to consider the universal frame, so any instantaneous communication could be used to also send messages back in time and create a time loop.
Thank you for your comments.

Imagine a photon coming around the sun and heading to earth. The path of that photon might bend somewhat but it lands on earth with a translational motion head on into someone's eyeball. Now imagine a photon whose path is bent so much that its path comes into a rotation. It will create a positron and electron. The hypothesis here is that the electron is a rotating wave. The em planar wave fronts fluctuate as they rotate about an axis.

We know that the electron moves in the direction of its axis of spin. In accordance with em wave theory, the electric field is perpendicular to the magnetic field and both are perpendicular to the direction of motion. Thus, when an electron rotating wave moves through space, its planar wave fronts must incline in order to maintain that perpendicular direction. Thus its effective length at any one time contracts and its time cycle slows down as the rotating planar wave fronts must travel a longer helical path through space. That is the Special Theory of Relativity for constant motion.

Time travel is merely slowing down ones clock while stationary observers keep their faster pace. The apparent connection between space and time is due to the rotating wave function of matter. If there are rotating waves, then perhaps highly evolved intelligence somewhere has increased detection of their weak signals and and used them in long distance communication.

The rotating wave model above assumes constant motion. It has four degrees of freedom: the x,y,z of space for the electron's translational (forward) motion and the rotational vector for time. For the General Theory a 5th degree of freedom is required to allow for gravity.

Offline meberbs

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #8 on: 11/24/2018 04:15 pm »
Imagine a photon coming around the sun and heading to earth. The path of that photon might bend somewhat but it lands on earth with a translational motion head on into someone's eyeball.
The path can bend when it interacts with a medium, but it will then continue in a straight line unless the medium changes again. If there is a medium, its velocity is now less than the universal constant c though, so that is irrelevant to your previous statements. The path can also be bent by gravity, but this is really space-time being bent, is very slight, and basically is the light following the closest thing to a straight line that exists in bent space-time.

Now imagine a photon whose path is bent so much that its path comes into a rotation. It will create a positron and electron.
Bending so much it "comes into a rotation" is a phrase that makes no sense in this context. No matter what you mean, there is no way for a typical photonto spontaneously create a positron and an electron. Typical photons have nowhere near the energy and field strength to make this happen, and require multiple photons moving in (roughly) opposite directions. The situations where it is possible to generate electrons and positrons from photons have nothing to do with bent paths or rotations.

The hypothesis here is that the electron is a rotating wave. The em planar wave fronts fluctuate as they rotate about an axis.
Your hypothesis here is ill-defined and contrary to every experiment ever done on an electron, which all show the electron is a point particle (which due to quantum mechanics acts as a local wave, but "rotation" is not one of its fundamental properties.)

We know that the electron moves in the direction of its axis of spin.
No, spin does not refer to real motion of the electron, since it is a point particle.

In accordance with em wave theory, the electric field is perpendicular to the magnetic field and both are perpendicular to the direction of motion.
That is for EM wves far from any charges, not fields near an electron which is what you are now talking about.

Thus, when an electron rotating wave moves through space, its planar wave fronts must incline in order to maintain that perpendicular direction. Thus its effective length at any one time contracts and its time cycle slows down as the rotating planar wave fronts must travel a longer helical path through space. That is the Special Theory of Relativity for constant motion.
None of that makes any sense at all, besides the fact that you started from your nonsensical and incorrect hypothesis.

Time travel is merely slowing down ones clock while stationary observers keep their faster pace. The apparent connection between space and time is due to the rotating wave function of matter. If there are rotating waves, then perhaps highly evolved intelligence somewhere has increased detection of their weak signals and and used them in long distance communication.

The rotating wave model above assumes constant motion. It has four degrees of freedom: the x,y,z of space for the electron's translational (forward) motion and the rotational vector for time. For the General Theory a 5th degree of freedom is required to allow for gravity.
Again all nonsense. It sounds like you are referencing some made-up "rotating wave model" which does not in any way accurately describe the universe due to multiple inconsistencies with existing experiments. Specifics are hard to get into due to no actual definition of what the model is, just a bunch of statements that amount to word salad.
« Last Edit: 11/24/2018 04:15 pm by meberbs »

Offline HVM

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #9 on: 03/28/2022 03:33 pm »
The one know superluminal phenomena is based on wave-particle duality of photons. Best way to understand this is a Double-slit experiment. Here is a educational and articulate video of that subject. (Warning: "viewer discretion is advised". Contains some facts of the operations done by Central Intelligence Agency of United States of America)


Offline Mark7777777

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #10 on: 03/29/2022 05:55 am »
For those that believe Mike McCulloch's quantised inertia theory (https://quantizedinertia.com/) and I know many on threads here say they don't, Mike says there's a possibility for near instantaneous back and forth communication across the width of the Milky Way galaxy and further.

The idea is if a Rindler horizon can be detected with an instrument, e.g. an ultra-sensitive temperature sensor, then such a "receiver" instrument can be used to detect a signal.

According to this idea, the radius of the Rindler horizon ranges from a few centimetres for extremely accelerated objects (e.g. photons, electrons) all the way up to the distance to the cosmic horizon as acceleration of an object reduces.

So the acceleration of the matter or photons in the "transmitter" would need to be "tuned" (e.g. by slowing down light or electrons) to reach the distance to the horizon where a "receiver" resides.


Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #11 on: 03/29/2022 06:05 am »
Quite simple then.  Let us know when you've got it working.

Offline aceshigh

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #12 on: 04/01/2022 08:14 pm »
Well, when my wife asks me if I have been drinking with friends and why I did not answer the cell phone ringing, she usually knows the answer before I even thought about it.

If that is not evidence for superluminal communication and effect before cause, then I donīt know what it is.

Offline jpo234

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #13 on: 04/09/2023 10:43 pm »
Sabine Hossenfelder on why she thinks that FTL is possible:

You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Online MickQ

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #14 on: 04/13/2023 05:28 am »
A force field  🤔

Offline joabel1971

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #15 on: 04/13/2023 05:51 am »
A force field  🤔

A zero-emissions, propellable, Impermeable Complex-Plasma Barrier is accurate.

About 1/2 of academia loses it's mind when people call them "force-fields", but I don't have a cognitive dissonance when people use that term. 

Nevertheless, if you got the term from Star Wars or Star Trek, then yes, you understand how such a device is SUPPOSED to behave & function.
 

Offline Twark_Main

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #16 on: 04/15/2023 05:06 pm »
A force field  🤔

Not so exotic. Gravity is a "force field" too. More technically it's an acceleration field, but it becomes a force when using a test particle of a given mass.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_field
"The search for a universal design which suits all sites, people, and situations is obviously impossible. What is possible is well designed examples of the application of universal principles." ~~ David Holmgren

Offline Slarty1080

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #17 on: 06/04/2023 07:17 am »
Has there been any progress toward possible FTL communication for instant signaling between planets? If so would then then allow for communication into the near past (6-12 months)?

No there has been no progress and if relativity is entirely accurate then there never will be progress. But what if relativity is not entirely accurate? Every scientific theory is open to revision and correction so despite the vast amount of supporting experimental data, relativity could be inaccurate. However if it is modern physics is going to be in need of revision and there will be no point in poking around in the blackened shards of physics as we know it looking for answers.

It's a bit like asking what is north of the North Pole. There is nothing north of the North Pole, but if one day someone found such a place there would be no point in appealing to spherical geometry to answer questions about it, because spherical geometry would clearly be flawed in some way.
My optimistic hope is that it will become cool to really think about things... rather than just doing reactive bullsh*t based on no knowledge (Brian Cox)

Offline 93143

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #18 on: 07/20/2023 11:04 pm »
if relativity is entirely accurate then there never will be progress.

That's not true.  You don't even need negative mass to create a wormhole you can send information through.  There's been suggestive work on warp drives with locally non-negative energy densities too (the objections generally focus on the various energy conditions, which are often used as rule-of-thumb sanity checks but are not laws of physics).

None of this violates general relativity in any way.  Special relativity yes, but special relativity assumes flat space and is therefore not sufficiently general to draw any conclusions from.

The physical understanding of this stuff is still in its infancy, and a lot of work remains to be done before we can seriously contemplate engineering any of it, or really even declare with any confidence that we ever will.  Warp drive papers in particular tend to be a bit self-conscious at this point; I get the impression that it's not taken all that seriously as a research focus.

Offline mandrewa

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Re: Superluminal communication
« Reply #19 on: 07/21/2023 01:44 am »
Quantum mechanics, or some versions of quantum mechanics, tells us that the universe is fundamentally non-local, and that there is no speed limit when it comes to entangled entities.  So if I were somehow entangled with another entity 10 billion light years away, certain changes in my state would instantaneously change the entity that is entangled with me despite it being 10 billion light years away.

But even though something has moved 10 billion light years in an instant you cannot turn this into a useful movement of information.  Despite the instant change it would still take at least 10 billion years to communicate in a way that would be relevant to a conscious mind with anything across that gap.

Yes, something moved instantly.  And this is happening all the time.  But it has no relevance to your conscious experience.  You are not a part of that.

So I don't think it's just the theory of relativity that tells us we cannot transmit useful information faster than light. I believe quantum mechanics, or at least some versions of quantum mechanics, is also saying that there is a problem.

But this is a partial truth at best, because we don't actually have one theory of quantum mechanics.  We have about 30 different versions of quantum mechanics, some of which don't seem to make sense at all, and they don't agree with one another.

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