Author Topic: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011  (Read 187066 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #300 on: 04/29/2011 09:28 pm »
Questions...on longer scrub (LCA):

Mike L - set up to try for Monday, able to go to Wednesday before standdown. Haven't given up on launching before Atlas. Changeout the box is a signifcant deal and a two day retest, that would probably drive us past this window (before Atlas).

How soon did you know it was a scrub situation?

Mike L - Within the first hour, 90 minutes, (two hours or so). We know these orbiters really well.

Mike M - saw it was the entire string of heaters.

Randy Segal (we know him :)) on APUs.

Mike L - both the other APUs were fine.

And Mark Kirkman...on 135's schedule and heater strings.

Mike M - 135 not yet directly tied, can go to the other side of Atlas and another week or two. No final answer, but not imminent.

It was multiple heaters on String B which was gone. String A was fine. We switched alternate power feeds to see if it was the ground power problem side on String B, wasn't.

Mike M - probably a feed to the whole string that's a problem.

Todd H on LCA changeout and astrovan fun:

Mike L - I can talk to the astrovan at any time. Didn't want to let them into the BDA.

LCA - working a detailed plan. Difficult to changeout and the good 48 hour retest on that guy. Access is on the left side of the ship. One entry level platform.

File 9 checkout is the name for the Heater checks. Mainly checkout on orbit by switching the strings. Last performance on orbit was fine.

Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Ronsmytheiii

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23394
  • Liked: 1879
  • Likes Given: 1023
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #301 on: 04/29/2011 09:31 pm »
Would have had a go for weather RTLS and TAl sites (a little salt in the wound -Mike Moses)

Offline D.A.

  • Member
  • Posts: 74
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #302 on: 04/29/2011 09:32 pm »
No question about the OMS pod issue yet. I wonder if they'll do some troubleshooting on it while they are working on the APU issue.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #303 on: 04/29/2011 09:41 pm »
On cutoff to go for Monday...

RSS to park Sunday afternoon 3pm. So need to get into launch preps at that time. Noonish on Sunday is the cut off.

Bill Harwood on Obama's scrub conversation and Gabby (bet Bill would have asked engineering questions if he wasn't given one of the last questions).

Bob Cabana - He said he understands, didn't really talk to him too much.

Would wind of delayed launch anyway?

Mike M - Was within limits. TAL sites - ZAR was go, just. Salt in the wound.

No firm commitment on the President coming back for the launch.

Mike M says they may talk to Atlas, but might be better to let them go. Dynamic situation.

Bob C notes Obama's kids had great questions about Atlantis.

James Dean on knowing there was a scrub coming.

Mike L - (proud) Well I know the ship very well :) Was a coincidence with the timing of the crew walkout.

Bob C - President had a physical and cleared to meet the crew per quarentine rules (interesting).

On how many heaters. Mike M gets excited and starts counting from a schematic :D

Each heater is a wrap around the line.

That's pretty much it.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17980
  • Liked: 4047
  • Likes Given: 2089
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #304 on: 04/29/2011 09:41 pm »
Heh -- funny line from Mike Moses about deleting emails with greater than 48-hour weather forecast. ;D  That's at least three along similar lines from current and former flight directors in the last few months.
« Last Edit: 04/29/2011 09:44 pm by psloss »

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #305 on: 04/29/2011 09:42 pm »
Oh, Mike M wants to praise ET-122. Reports are the tank looked like every other tank, was flawless :)
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline racshot65

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2577
  • Aaron Kalair
  • Coventry, England
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #306 on: 04/29/2011 09:42 pm »
Bob Cabana

Would have loved to see endeavour lift off this afternoon would rather be on the ground wishing I was flying than in the air wishing I was on the ground

Even though we scrubbed the president decided to continue with the visit and he and his family enjoyed it

Saw Atlantis in OPF. Came to LCC met with crew, (in good spirits). Met with crew families.

He understands its hard for folks losing jobs it will be focusing on doing bigger and better things.

Will have a good future with commercial space and a large vehicle to go beyond earth due to the tremendous work force at NASA

Hope to have him back for another launch

Crew staying in quarantine with families


Mike Moses

Team did an amazing job to get to tanking, weather front last night hit later than expected threw them into a loop for RSS retract,  and was 5 hours late but an on time tanking

Weather briefing showed good day to tank, leaky hydrogen fill line, hooked it up to different tank to bleed down pressure

APU – system used to generate hydraulic power,

Had a problem in one of heathers in fuel line. In orbit if you cant keep heater on line freezes up and when it thaws it make rupture the line. Leaking hydrazine causes a fire on re entry

2 heaters on APU 1 both required for operations. If you lost last heater on orbit you may not have time to react. If this occurred on orbit they would have evualted it and may have been able to periodically use to keep it warm. Would have burned it to depletion  would not have to worry about it. Wouldn’t have had to terminate mission if one APU fails in orbit.

Team made a good call on scrub talked about it to make sure they understood it correctly. The hydrogen oxygen cooling the line provided a free orbit check out.

Atlas launch on 6th last possible attempt on Wed

Potential issues after that with Soyuz undocking, could undock with shuttle present but not dock shuttle at same time. Will need to talk to Russians


Mike Leinbach

Tanking went perfectly when fuel line chilled down the thermostat didn’t come on. Had to get into crew module to command the heater on, needed to wait till ET load was done to do this.

Didn’t work commanding it on from crew module.

Talked for a few hours about launching like this, was straight forward scrub. No redundancy on a critical component

ET empty now. 24 hours to fully drain little bit left to boil off, and then need to inert with helium

Tomorrow afternoon going into aft of orbiter and get hands on the fuel line, thermostat and heater.

First step will be to spray mist on the thermostat to cool it down and try and turn it on. If this works it may be a broken thermostat that needs replacing

May be a problem in a box called LCA. Box of switches, if something’s wrong in this it’s a big job and will take some time to change out.

Troubleshooting currently supports Launch attempt Monday morning




Questions

Q: If it becomes more invasive will you be able to make next launch on other side of Atlas ?

A: Are set up to try for Monday can go till Wednesday.  LCA change out is big. Retest requires 2 days.


Q: Did you meet Giffords?

A: No


Q: How quickly did you know this would be a show stopper?

A: Within first hour and half. Initial signature looked like it was just 1 element on line that failed, but after a longer period it was clear it was the entire string of heaters


Q: Will assume the other APU’s are fine and not work on them?

A: Yes


Q: Are you tied to Atlantis in terms of schedule?

A: Not 1 to 1 tie yet, can go to other side of Atlas and another week or two without problems


Q: If you had to R&R LCA how long will it take?

A: Working on a plan. Difficult to change out. Retest takes 48 hours as there are multiple systems that go through it. A few days for sure.


Q: Why did astro van go to LCC parking lot ?

A: Started going to pad as they were still talking. Knowing they were going to scrub they didn’t want them to go into blast danger area.


Q: Going into the aft compartment is hazard to make sure you damage nothing how much access will you need and do you have spare parts needed?

A: Need to go in left door of aft. Have all the spares needed


Q: Has this issue happened in the past ?

A: Similar failure before (doesn’t remember number). Looked at history to give them a starting point. Heater performance is in file 9 checkout. Need to shield each individual thermostat to check them out on ground. This is time consuming so they check them out on orbit. If there’s no problems on orbit they consider them ready to go for next flight. Last issue like this was 2 years ago.


Q: Do signs point towards a thermostat failure?

A: It depends, a thermostat running a little low that doesn’t function during checkout is a quick change out. All the heaters on front aft share a common ground so opening up causes it to pull down a switch in LCA box. So a single failure of a thermostat could still cause this failure.


Q:  Was the weather at the launch time go?

A: Winds at KSC were not a problem. TAL site (Zaragoza) was good.


Q: Will the congress woman stay for launch?

A: Don’t know


Q: Any chance Atlas will move for shuttle?

A: Will talk to them


Q: How will the astronauts be spending the next couple of days ?

A: They will have time with families. Time at beach house. Going over procedures to make sure there ready and listening to how the teams are doing on troubleshooting. Mainly relaxing in crew quarters.


Q: Did the crew know before they even walked out a scrub was probable

A: They know the ship well so they probably understood it was a significant problem


Q: Does meeting with the president stretch the crew quarantine rules?

A: No president and first lady had a physical and were cleared.


Q: Do the two lines involved each have 4 heaters?

A: 12 heaters on line. Not all will cycle at pad temps. Only 4 will cycle at pad temps. 2 heaters per fluid line, 1 working, 1 was not.


Q: Does the switch box take so long due to testing or getting to it?

A: Have to get to the avionics bay and this is a lot of work. And retest is a lot of work.


Q: How does the weather look for Monday – Wednesday?

A: Don’t know, doesn’t matter much. KSC Looks like the same weather pattern as now. TAL weather should improve.

Offline arkaska

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3042
  • Sweden
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 4
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #307 on: 04/29/2011 09:44 pm »
Do they always empty out the LCC of all the chairs and everything?

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17980
  • Liked: 4047
  • Likes Given: 2089
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #308 on: 04/29/2011 09:45 pm »
Do they always empty out the LCC of all the chairs and everything?
That was one of the firing rooms no longer being used.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #309 on: 04/29/2011 09:46 pm »
Right, that does it for today.

We're already collating info in L2 and that'll be the basis of the next article. We'll stay on this thread until we either move to a new launch day thread, or an interim troubleshooting thread.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17980
  • Liked: 4047
  • Likes Given: 2089
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #310 on: 04/29/2011 09:49 pm »
Q: Do signs point towards a thermostat failure?

A: It depends, a thermostat running a little low that doesn’t function during checkout is a quick change out. All the heaters on front aft share a common ground so opening up causes it to pull down a switch in LCA box. So a single failure of a thermostat could still cause this failure.
This was a nice summary of what we'll be wondering about on the weekend.

Offline John44

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3887
  • Netherlands
    • space-multimedia
  • Liked: 258
  • Likes Given: 0

Offline MadameConcorde

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
  • The sky is my home
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #312 on: 04/29/2011 10:06 pm »
Here in Orlando, our tour bus was just leaving KsC for the Causeway when they announced the launch scrub with Monday as a new launch possibility.

Considering the APU and heaters problem what are the chances thqt they would have Endeavour all back in 100 percent flying condition for Monday launch?

I will still be here on Monday qnd Tuesday but I won't be able to extend much longer after that.  I am asking one of you if they could give me a calendar of possible launch dates after Monday if they decide to postpone further.

Would pushing the launch date later not influence Altantis launch dats an if so how far in time can Atlantis launch be pushed without creating problems relating to budget/finacing that last launch/mission?

I really hope they have the shuttle fixed and ready for go on Monday still wanting to know what would hqppen fi they decide to postpone to a further date.

I would be terribly unhappy to have to return to Europe without seeing Endeavour off to the skies and up to Space.


***
For once you have tasted Concorde you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
***
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde

Offline Space Pete

Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #313 on: 04/29/2011 10:25 pm »
Atlas launch on 6th last possible attempt on Wed

Potential issues after that with Soyuz undocking, could undock with shuttle present but not dock shuttle at same time. Will need to talk to Russians.

Now this is interesting - if the Soyuz TMA-20 undocking is permitted during the docked timeframe, then that means we could get a flyabout after all. :)
NASASpaceflight ISS Editor

Offline Ford Mustang

  • Live Coverage Editor
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12473
  • Virginia
    • Astro95Media
  • Liked: 375
  • Likes Given: 36
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #314 on: 04/29/2011 10:31 pm »
Here in Orlando, our tour bus was just leaving KsC for the Causeway when they announced the launch scrub with Monday as a new launch possibility.

Considering the APU and heaters problem what are the chances thqt they would have Endeavour all back in 100 percent flying condition for Monday launch?

I will still be here on Monday qnd Tuesday but I won't be able to extend much longer after that.  I am asking one of you if they could give me a calendar of possible launch dates after Monday if they decide to postpone further.

Would pushing the launch date later not influence Altantis launch dats an if so how far in time can Atlantis launch be pushed without creating problems relating to budget/finacing that last launch/mission?

I really hope they have the shuttle fixed and ready for go on Monday still wanting to know what would hqppen fi they decide to postpone to a further date.

I would be terribly unhappy to have to return to Europe without seeing Endeavour off to the skies and up to Space.




We simply won't know until they get into the aft tomorrow.  If the heater works, then it's a thermostat change.  If the heater doesn't, it's into the LCA and that could take a few days.  Please read what was transcribed above, it has all the answers you are looking for.

Offline shuttlefanatic

  • Launches: 61-C, 91, 100, 119, 133, 134, 135. Landings: 26, 28, 32, 36, 41, 40, 44, 42, 58, 64, 66, 67, 76, 92, 100, 124, 126, 128.
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • SSP MET 11056d 21h 57m Flight time 1330d 16h 18m
  • San Diego, CA
    • Final thoughts...
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #315 on: 04/29/2011 11:32 pm »
"I'd rather be on the ground wishing we were in the air, than in the air and wishing we were on the ground" - epic Bob Cabana quote.
We pilots say that all the time :)

Offline Rocket Science

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10586
  • NASA Educator Astronaut Candidate Applicant 2002
  • Liked: 4548
  • Likes Given: 13523
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #316 on: 04/29/2011 11:54 pm »
"I'd rather be on the ground wishing we were in the air, than in the air and wishing we were on the ground" - epic Bob Cabana quote.
We pilots say that all the time :)
I loved it when he said that... Another one I learned during training was "the two most useless things during a engine failure at takeoff, is the altitude above you and the runway behind you"...
Words of wisdom Bob!!
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator

Offline Orbiter

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2995
  • Florida
  • Liked: 1548
  • Likes Given: 1385
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #317 on: 04/30/2011 12:19 am »
They mentioned today that a previous shuttle mission had a similar type of problem but they didn't remember which STS it was - anyone have any clue?

Orbiter
KSC Engineer, astronomer, rocket photographer.

Offline shuttlefanatic

  • Launches: 61-C, 91, 100, 119, 133, 134, 135. Landings: 26, 28, 32, 36, 41, 40, 44, 42, 58, 64, 66, 67, 76, 92, 100, 124, 126, 128.
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • SSP MET 11056d 21h 57m Flight time 1330d 16h 18m
  • San Diego, CA
    • Final thoughts...
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #318 on: 04/30/2011 12:30 am »
They mentioned today that a previous shuttle mission had a similar type of problem but they didn't remember which STS it was - anyone have any clue?


FWIW, from back when the scrub was first announced.  Not sure if either were what was being referenced:

For what it's worth...
STS 2 was delayed 8 days (for APU scrub)
STS 31 delayed 14 days.
Those were different situations, STS-31 turnaround was complicated by HST battery charging.

Offline SpaceAndrew25

  • Member
  • Posts: 28
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SCRUB: STS-134 - LAUNCH DAY UPDATES - April 29, 2011
« Reply #319 on: 04/30/2011 12:40 am »
I believe NASA intentionally sabotaged the launch so that they can move it to a day it will get more attention.  :P ;)

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0