Author Topic: How far off shore have the launch rigs to be to be noise acceptable?  (Read 6381 times)

Offline Starships for Scotland

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How far off shore have the launch rigs to be to be noise acceptable? Phobos & Deimos.
With March 3th, 2022 being the 200th pre-anniversary of Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott being born in Linlithgow  and serving his apprenticeship in the Aberdeen space-ship yards, let us hope 2022 will be the year SpaceX Starships come to Scotland.

Offline Slarty1080

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How far off shore have the launch rigs to be to be noise acceptable? Phobos & Deimos.
20 miles perhaps.
My optimistic hope is that it will become cool to really think about things... rather than just doing reactive bullsh*t based on no knowledge (Brian Cox)

Offline FlattestEarth

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Online nicp

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A further question is where can you launch Super Heavy / Starship such that noise is not going to adversely affect whales / dolphins / porpoises / pick your favorite marine life-form.
For Vectron!

Offline Mark K

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A further question is where can you launch Super Heavy / Starship such that noise is not going to adversely affect whales / dolphins / porpoises / pick your favorite marine life-form.

Depends on how they launch. the coupling isn't that good between air and water. This isn't sea lauch where the end is stuck in the water. It will be higher up probably. It would be interesting to see the acoustic data.

Offline Starships for Scotland

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Just asking as Scotland has plenty old oil rigs.
With March 3th, 2022 being the 200th pre-anniversary of Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott being born in Linlithgow  and serving his apprenticeship in the Aberdeen space-ship yards, let us hope 2022 will be the year SpaceX Starships come to Scotland.

Offline cuddihy

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A further question is where can you launch Super Heavy / Starship such that noise is not going to adversely affect whales / dolphins / porpoises / pick your favorite marine life-form.

Yes, but a fairly easy question to answer. The answer is, anywhere.
Thereís no fences in the ocean and marine mammals are known to move around quite a bit and to be surprisingly resilient to human noises. Also not too much acoustic energy moves through the air/sea surface interface, so itís not a real problem the way underwater explosions or active military sonar may be.
« Last Edit: 04/27/2021 06:16 pm by cuddihy »

Offline Vultur

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Where do the noise limits come from, anyway? I mean, I suppose in regulatory terms from the FAA, but what are they based on (ie how is it determined what's acceptable vs not)?

Offline Starships for Scotland

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In Scotland it will be when people on shore get upset.
With March 3th, 2022 being the 200th pre-anniversary of Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott being born in Linlithgow  and serving his apprenticeship in the Aberdeen space-ship yards, let us hope 2022 will be the year SpaceX Starships come to Scotland.

Offline born01930

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In Scotland it will be when people on shore get upset.

If they can suffer a band of bagpipes, I think SS/SH will be barely noticeable

Offline AC in NC

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In Scotland it will be when people on shore get upset.

Welcome.  Have a look around and see how things operate here.  It has a certain culture.

Both your threads are probably better as Questions in this Thread https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=52841.0 in the Facilities Section.

And use a google query like this https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anasaspaceflight.com+offshore+noise
to research the many questions where they've probably already been discussed.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Where do the noise limits come from, anyway? I mean, I suppose in regulatory terms from the FAA, but what are they based on (ie how is it determined what's acceptable vs not)?
There have been plenty of studies on different types of noises including music for intensity and duration versus hearing damage.  There have been studies on noise at and around airports.  There are noise abatement procedures on flights at specific airports to keep noise below certain limits.  The FAA will have plenty of history to draw on for noise regulations.

Offline Vultur

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There have been plenty of studies on different types of noises including music for intensity and duration versus hearing damage.  There have been studies on noise at and around airports.  There are noise abatement procedures on flights at specific airports to keep noise below certain limits.  The FAA will have plenty of history to draw on for noise regulations.

Hmm, ok.

I was mostly wondering because the OSHA noise/hearing protection limits I'm familiar with assume an 8-hour-workday exposure, and rocket launches are brief; and because the 20 miles quoted seems really far given what a Shuttle launch sounded like from 3-4 miles away.

Sure, Super Heavy will be larger than Shuttle, but wouldn't noise go down as inverse square since the sound waves would spread out?

Offline Slarty1080

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There's also sonic booms on return and the vague possibility of a larger booster later.
My optimistic hope is that it will become cool to really think about things... rather than just doing reactive bullsh*t based on no knowledge (Brian Cox)

Offline Daan

There's also sonic booms on return and the vague possibility of a larger booster later.

What do you mean by "larger booster"? Like Super Heavy with 37 Raptors?

Offline deadman1204

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A further question is where can you launch Super Heavy / Starship such that noise is not going to adversely affect whales / dolphins / porpoises / pick your favorite marine life-form.

Yes, but a fairly easy question to answer. The answer is, anywhere.
Thereís no fences in the ocean and marine mammals are known to move around quite a bit and to be surprisingly resilient to human noises. Also not too much acoustic energy moves through the air/sea surface interface, so itís not a real problem the way underwater explosions or active military sonar may be.

You obviously no literally nothing about this. Its one thing to have a guess, but you are attempting to sound authoritative.
The ocean isn't a wide open evenly dispersed area. Sea life gathers in specific areas and depths. 20 miles might be much further out than where whales normally feed. It could also be the exact distance for optimal feeding for them. Ecosystems are far more complex than you suspect.
« Last Edit: 04/28/2021 03:46 pm by deadman1204 »

Online daveglo

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There's also sonic booms on return and the vague possibility of a larger booster later.

The sonic boom issue is MUCH larger than the launch noise.  Elon has said the booster would return in similar fashion to F9.  While I haven't seen any informed discussion regarding the exact landing approach profile, some trial simulations by onespeed (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47179.msg2212011#msg2212011) indicate the booster may be supersonic all the way down below 4km altitude.  That would put a pretty good shock wave down to ground level, from what I can tell.
« Last Edit: 04/28/2021 04:02 pm by daveglo »

Offline Starships for Scotland

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Ok I will just wait till Super Heavy flies and find out for real.
With March 3th, 2022 being the 200th pre-anniversary of Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott being born in Linlithgow  and serving his apprenticeship in the Aberdeen space-ship yards, let us hope 2022 will be the year SpaceX Starships come to Scotland.

Offline jstrotha0975

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There's too many splinter threads. This is just stupid now.

Offline AC in NC

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There's too many splinter threads. This is just stupid now.
An unfortunate side-effect of Enthusiastic Noobs in combination with a Welcoming Culture.  When Customer Service is too good (like here and Chik-Fil-A), your only bad experiences come when you NEED management to be rude.   ;)

Tags: Phobos Deimos 
 

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