Author Topic: Commercial LEO Destinations Development  (Read 251812 times)

Online AmigaClone

Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #540 on: 08/24/2025 01:18 am »
The ISS can clearly accommodate 12+ month missions because it has already done so.  Yet, no long duration missions are currently planned on the ISS.  Why? – because it costs too much money.  NASA studied ways to provide long duration missions on ISS, and there were several ways to do it safely and effectively.  NASA rejected them all because it didn’t have enough money.

The cheapest way for a "year-long mission" would be launch a Crew Dragon with 4 NASA or international astronauts. Midway through that mission, an Axiom mission would be launched with the crew of that mission returning on the Dragon that has been in orbit nearly six months. In effect, it would take a page out of the Soviet/Russian use of visiting expeditions to perform spacecraft exchanges.

Offline vp.

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #541 on: 08/24/2025 06:23 am »
The cheapest way for a "year-long mission" would be ...

not to mention the Dragon cargo ships for food, water and clothing, the Progress ships to regularly reassemble the station; all the ground crews to manage the station, etc.

Offline daedalus1

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #542 on: 08/24/2025 06:39 am »
7 people in space permanently costs the same no matter how long an individual is there.
But 12 month flights need less crew transports than 6 month missions  - a big saving.
Also less temporary crew handovers which require more consumables.
The Russians have recently reduced their Soyuz launches from 2 per year to 3 every two years. That is purely to save money.
« Last Edit: 08/24/2025 06:41 am by daedalus1 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #543 on: 08/25/2025 05:32 pm »
Phil McAlister is not holding back, this is a glorious read: No Changes Allowed

Interesting read! Thanks for posting it. There was complaints by contractors of NASA' excessive requirements under the public-private partnership model but it wasn't clear what programs they were referring to. Now we know. I suspect that the same can be said for other public-private programs such as the spacesuits program but I admit that I don't know that for sure.
« Last Edit: 08/25/2025 05:34 pm by yg1968 »

Offline thespacecow

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #544 on: 08/29/2025 03:35 am »
Pam Melroy was on Payload Space podcast recently, defending her view wrt CLD: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-case-for-continuity-with-pam-melroy-former/id1627049050?i=1000723842023

Haven't finished listening to it, there's a lot to disagree with but this one takes the cake:

Quote
So, the requirements, process, you know, it's interesting. It's been a long time since NASA did that kind of deep requirements process. Probably the last time they did it was during Constellation, which was the human spaceflight program back in the early 2000s.

And a huge amount of effort went into it. And there was a lot of thinking through of an architecture where all the pieces were optimized to fit together. Frankly, we haven't really done a lot of that since.

...

We tried to do the same thing with commercial LEO destinations, didn't have enough time to get it as far down the road as possible.

So the best example for requirement process she can come up with is the trainwreck that is Constellation? Not COTS, not CRS, not Commercial Crew?

And they try to replicate Constellation - a cost plus program - requirement process on CLD, a commercial partnership? Looks like we found the root cause of the problem with CLD...

Offline Vultur

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #545 on: 08/29/2025 06:22 am »
Using Constellation as a positive example is somewhat unusual.

Offline edzieba

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #546 on: 09/03/2025 03:42 pm »
I don't think it was being used as a "positive example" just as a 'this was the last time we underwent such a complex requirements analysis'.

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #547 on: 09/07/2025 01:42 pm »
SAM.gov: Commercial Low Earth Orbit (LEO) Development Program Phase 2 - SAA [Sep 5]

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The purpose of this modification is to post the C3DO Draft Announcement for Partnership Proposal (AFPP).

Potential Participants are invited to submit written comments and questions regarding all aspects of the draft AFPP, see additional information in the attached cover letter.

SAM.gov: Commercial Low Earth Orbit (LEO) Destination Contract (CLDC) Technical Library [Sep 3]

Quote
This modification 3 is to notify industry of Data Drop 3 to the CLDC Technical Library.
« Last Edit: 09/07/2025 01:43 pm by StraumliBlight »

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #548 on: 09/29/2025 06:05 pm »
Aviation Week [Sep 29]

Quote
NASA is delaying plans to issue a solicitation for the next phase of a public-private partnership program to spur development of one or more new space stations in low Earth orbit (LEO) while it assesses feedback from industry.

Offline yg1968

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #549 on: 10/10/2025 05:38 pm »
T+311: Phil McAlister on Commercial LEO and NASA’s Human Spaceflight Budget:
https://mainenginecutoff.com/podcast/311

https://twitter.com/WeHaveMECO/status/1976700316549591186
« Last Edit: 10/11/2025 03:14 pm by yg1968 »

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #550 on: 12/06/2025 09:46 am »
SAM.gov: Commercial Low Earth Orbit (LEO) Destination Contract (CLDC) Technical Library [Dec 5]

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Modification 5

This modification 5 is to notify industry of Data Drop 4 (Uncontrolled Data) & the re-release of Data Drop 4 (Controlled Data) to the CLDC Technical Library. The following attachments are uploaded/updated:

120525 Data Drop 4 Uncontrolled Data is uploaded
091025 Data Drop 4 Controlled Data was temporarily deleted & re-released as 120525
Excel index file “CLDC Tech Library Contents” is updated through 120525 (Uncontrolled Data Drop 4 & Controlled Data Drop 4)

Offline JSz

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #551 on: 12/28/2025 07:19 pm »
If posts on X are any indication of the progress being made on the construction of individual orbital stations, the latest posts on their progress were published on:

Starlab Space + (Starlab): December 26, 2025
Vast (Haven-1): December 22, 2025
Axiom Space (Axiom): December 18, 2025
Sierra Space (LIFE): October 20, 2024
Max Space (Thunderbird): September 17, 2024
Blue Origin + (Orbital Reef): December 6, 2023
« Last Edit: 12/29/2025 02:29 pm by JSz »

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #552 on: 01/05/2026 11:20 pm »
Commerce, Justice, Science; Energy and Water Development; and Interior and Environment Appropriations Act, 2026 [Jan 5]

Quote from: Division A
Commercial Low Earth Orbit Destinations (CLD)

The agreement provides $273,200,000 for the CLD program. NASA is directed to brief the Committees no later than 60 days after the enactment of this act on its plans to ensure that at least one provider is available to provide services upon the decommissioning of the International Space Station (ISS).

Offline Tywin

Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #553 on: 01/06/2026 04:41 pm »
Commerce, Justice, Science; Energy and Water Development; and Interior and Environment Appropriations Act, 2026 [Jan 5]

Quote from: Division A
Commercial Low Earth Orbit Destinations (CLD)

The agreement provides $273,200,000 for the CLD program. NASA is directed to brief the Committees no later than 60 days after the enactment of this act on its plans to ensure that at least one provider is available to provide services upon the decommissioning of the International Space Station (ISS).

So, in 60 days the will decide the winner?
The knowledge is power...Everything is connected...
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Offline yg1968

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Re: Commercial LEO Destinations Development
« Reply #554 on: 01/06/2026 05:20 pm »
Commerce, Justice, Science; Energy and Water Development; and Interior and Environment Appropriations Act, 2026 [Jan 5]

Quote from: Division A
Commercial Low Earth Orbit Destinations (CLD)

The agreement provides $273,200,000 for the CLD program. NASA is directed to brief the Committees no later than 60 days after the enactment of this act on its plans to ensure that at least one provider is available to provide services upon the decommissioning of the International Space Station (ISS).

So, in 60 days they will decide the winner?

Not necessarily, it's just a report to inform Congress of NASA's plans.
« Last Edit: 01/06/2026 05:29 pm by yg1968 »

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