MMX : JAXA : Phobos Sample Return

[Fuji]

JAXA plans probe to bring back samples from moons of Mars
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/06/10/national/science-health/jaxa-plans-probe-bring-back-samples-martian-moons/


Landing target is Phobos or Deimos and utilized SLIM technology.

http://www8.cao.go.jp/space/comittee/27-kagaku/kagaku-dai2/siryou1-6.pdf

[metaluna4]

Just in case anyone's interested in the contents of the table I did a quick translation. If anything's incorrect don't hesitate to blame me!

[TrevorMonty]

If any space agency can pull this mission of it is JAXA, sample returns seem to be their specialty.

Coincidentally last weeks FISO podcast was about a manned mission to Phobo.
http://spirit.as.utexas.edu/~fiso/archivelist.htm

A robotic mission would be a prerequisite for this manned mission. If JAXA does it all the better for NASA.

[JH]

Just in case anyone's interested in the contents of the table I did a quick translation. If anything's incorrect don't hesitate to blame me!

Just checking, but under system components/elec-elec shouldn't it be (electrical propulsion)? The characters look the same as under system components/chem-elec. Thank you for the translation, by the way.

[ThereIWas3]

I think you are correct.  電気 means 'electricity'.
The symbol 電 represents a rain cloud with lightning coming out of it,
and appears in words like 'telephone' and 'electric train'. 

[metaluna4]

Yeah, you're right. Thanks! Fixed it.

[Blackstar]

Apparently some JAXA representatives made a presentation about this mission at a recent COSPAR conference in Brazil. They primarily talked about science goals, but a colleague who was there said that it is a real mission.

I also met somebody who was brought in as a science adviser to them. The Japanese have a history of creating foreign science advisory teams to critique their plans. This person also said that it is a real mission.

I think that this is actually a good idea and a clever one. First, Japan already has experience with sample return, with both H1 and soon H2. So they have the technology and the operational experience. Second, if they do this mission they will do something that nobody else (not NASA, Russia, India or China) has done before. Third, by doing the mission it sets them up to participate in a future NASA-led Mars sample return mission. So there are a lot of positives to doing a Phobos sample return mission.

[Star One]

Sample return seems to becoming something of a speciality for JAXA these days. Scientifically it also sounds a very worthy goal.

[Blackstar]

Well, NASA has already done sample return (Genesis, Stardust), and will have new capabilities with OSIRIS-REx soon. We don't series produce science spacecraft, so there's no real standardization of hardware except for some sensors. I don't know anything about H2, but I can almost guarantee that it has significant differences compared to H1 because it was built later (and it should have them--H1 was lacking in redundancy). So we have to qualify things when we talk about hardware heritage. This is my sorta roundabout way of saying that their Phobos sample return mission will not be a H2 clone.

But what they have developed is the technology, and an understanding of how the technology works (and what does not work). And they also have developed the operational knowledge. H1 provided a number of great engineering lessons in what not to do. The Japanese know that now, and they won't do it with H2. And they'll gain even more knowledge with H2.

So, yeah, they have this capability and they are smart to apply it to Phobos. I hope they go through with that mission, because it is valuable from a scientific standpoint as well as a political partnership one.

[TrevorMonty]

Instead of returning a sample to earth via small capsule what about to cislunar space. Use a Orion mission to pick it up, would allow for a larger sample.

[whitelancer64]

Instead of returning a sample to earth via small capsule what about to cislunar space. Use a Orion mission to pick it up, would allow for a larger sample.

Actually, the sample would likely be smaller. While dispensing with the return capsule, now the spacecraft must carry much more fuel in order to slow down to enter orbit around the Moon. Direct Earth reentry is far more mass-efficient.

Also the cost associated with using an SLS launch to send an Orion capsule to retrieve the sample is prohibitive.

[Blackstar]

Instead of returning a sample to earth via small capsule what about to cislunar space. Use a Orion mission to pick it up, would allow for a larger sample.

Actually, the sample would likely be smaller. While dispensing with the return capsule, now the spacecraft must carry much more fuel in order to slow down to enter orbit around the Moon. Direct Earth reentry is far more mass-efficient.

Also the cost associated with using an SLS launch to send an Orion capsule to retrieve the sample is prohibitive.

Agreed. There is an interesting proposal for doing this with Orion and a lunar sample called Orion-MoonRise. I rather like that concept, which allows for a much larger sample because Orion would be in the vicinity of the Moon to retrieve something boosted up from it. But coming back from outside the Earth-Moon system you might just as well go into the atmosphere and use that for braking.

[Zed_Noir]

Instead of returning a sample to earth via small capsule what about to cislunar space. Use a Orion mission to pick it up, would allow for a larger sample.

Actually, the sample would likely be smaller. While dispensing with the return capsule, now the spacecraft must carry much more fuel in order to slow down to enter orbit around the Moon. Direct Earth reentry is far more mass-efficient.

Also the cost associated with using an SLS launch to send an Orion capsule to retrieve the sample is prohibitive.

Maybe it might be doable with a different launcher & space vehicle.

[TrevorMonty]

Instead of returning a sample to earth via small capsule what about to cislunar space. Use a Orion mission to pick it up, would allow for a larger sample.

Actually, the sample would likely be smaller. While dispensing with the return capsule, now the spacecraft must carry much more fuel in order to slow down to enter orbit around the Moon. Direct Earth reentry is far more mass-efficient.

Also the cost associated with using an SLS launch to send an Orion capsule to retrieve the sample is prohibitive.

I wasn't think of dedicated Orion. If NASA was doing Cislunar mission just add pickup of sample to it.
As has been pointed out due to DV changes required, the sample may as well go straight to earth.

[tul]

The design of the probe will be finished at the end of FY 2016. Launch is still planned for August 2022.

http://mepag.nasa.gov/meeting/2016-03/17_Miyamoto.pdf

[Star One]

A couple of updates on this mission from Jeff Foust's Twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/741349890333265924

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/741351506553786368

[Fuji]

JAXA ISAS's MMX（Martian Moons eXploration） Home page.
http://mmx.isas.jaxa.jp/

[Fuji]

JAXA and CNES Make and Sign Implementing Arrangement　on Martian Moons Exploration (MMX)
http://global.jaxa.jp/press/2017/04/20170410_cnes.html

JAXA expects CNES to share technical expertise and to render assistance in the following three research topics for MMX research and development phase;

    - Near-infrared Spectrometer (MacrOmega)
    - Flight Dynamics
    - Feasibility of the Small Lander to be equipped

[bolun]

JAXA and CNES Make and Sign Implementing Arrangement　on Martian Moons Exploration (MMX)
http://global.jaxa.jp/press/2017/04/20170410_cnes.html

JAXA expects CNES to share technical expertise and to render assistance in the following three research topics for MMX research and development phase;

    - Near-infrared Spectrometer (MacrOmega)
    - Flight Dynamics
    - Feasibility of the Small Lander to be equipped

France-Japan space cooperation CNES and JAXA to explore Mars' moons together

https://presse.cnes.fr/en/france-japan-space-cooperation-cnes-and-jaxa-explore-mars-moons-together

[titusou]

New CG been posted by JAXA:



Titus

[catdlr]

November 16, 2017
RELEASE 17-090
NASA Selects Instrument for Future International Mission to Martian Moons

NASA has selected a science instrument for an upcoming Japan-led sample return mission to the moons of Mars planned for launch in 2024. The instrument, a sophisticated neutron and gamma-ray spectrograph, will help scientists resolve one of the most enduring mysteries of the Red Planet -- when and how the small moons formed.

The Mars Moons eXploration (MMX) mission is in development by the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA). MMX will visit the two Martian moons, Phobos and Deimos, land on the surface of Phobos, and collect a surface sample. Plans are for the sample to be returned to Earth in 2029. NASA is supporting the development of one of the spacecraft’s suite of seven science instruments.

“Solving the riddle of how Mars’ moons came to be will help us better understand how planets formed around our Sun and, in turn, around other stars,” said Thomas Zurbuchen, associate administrator for NASA’s Science Mission Directorate (SMD) at Headquarters in Washington. “International partnerships like this provide high-quality science with high- impact return.”

The selected instrument, named MEGANE (pronounced meh-gah-nay, meaning “eyeglasses” in Japanese), will be developed by a team led by David Lawrence of the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Maryland. MEGANE will give MMX the ability to “see” the elemental composition of Phobos, by measuring the energies of neutrons and gamma-rays emitted from the small moon. The elementary particles are emitted naturally as a result of the high-energy cosmic rays and solar energetic particles that continually strike and penetrate the surface of Phobos.

“With MMX, we hope to understand the origin of the moons of Mars,” said Masaki Fujimoto, director of the department of solar system science in JAXA’s Institute of Space and Aeronautical Sciences. “They may have formed as the result of a large impact on Mars, or they may be captured asteroids of a sort that may have brought a great deal of water to both Mars and Earth.”

MEGANE will be developed under NASA’s Discovery Program, which provides frequent, low-cost access to space using principal investigator-led space science investigations relevant to SMD’s planetary science program.

“We’ll see the composition of the region from which MMX collects its sample,” said Thomas Statler, program scientist for MMX at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “This will help us better understand what we discover in the laboratory when the mission returns the sample to Earth for analysis.”

The Discovery Program is managed by NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama for SMD, which conducts a wide variety of research and scientific exploration programs for Earth studies, space weather, the solar system and universe.

For more information about the Discovery Program, visit:

https://planetarymissions.nasa.gov/

For information about NASA and space science, visit:

https://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/index.html

-end-

[Star One]

Solving the riddle of how Mars’ moons came to be will help us better understand how planets formed around our Sun and, in turn, around other stars,” said Thomas Zurbuchen, associate administrator for NASA’s science mission directorate. “International partnerships like this provide high-quality science with high-impact return.”

“We’ll see the composition of the region from which MMX collects its sample,” said Thomas Statler, program scientist for MMX at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “This will help us better understand what we discover in the laboratory when the mission returns the sample to Earth for analysis.”

https://astronomynow.com/2017/11/20/nasa-confirms-contribution-to-japanese-led-mars-mission/

[redliox]

Establishing a thread for JAXA's MMX mission, planned for launch in September 2024.

Mission's website: http://mmx.isas.jaxa.jp/en/index.html
PDF Roadmap of the mission: http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/en/topics/files/MMX170412_EN.pdf

While still in Phase A, I am excited for Japan's mission since it will investigate both moons with emphasis on (as well as sample return from) Phobos.

[Star One]

Japan will send a rover to Martian moons with help from Germany and France

We might be able to study the Martian moons Phobos and Deimos a lot more closely in the coming decade. Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) has teamed up with Germany's and France's space agencies to send a spacecraft with a rover to the red planet's faithful companions. In fact, JAXA has just finalized its agreement to work with the German Aerospace Center (DLR) on the study-phase activities for its Martian Moons eXploration (MMX) mission.

[Tywin]

The spacecraft will carry a German-French rover that will land on either Phobos or Deimos and explore the surface in detail for several months

"The world-first exploration of the Martian moons with a rover is a major technical challenge that we are tackling within the framework of our strong and proven partnership with Japan and France," says Pascale Ehrenfreund, Chair of the DLR Executive Board. "Together, we want to push the boundaries of what is technically feasible in robotic exploration and expand our knowledge about the origin of the solar system."

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/A_Rover_for_Phobos_and_Deimos_999.html

The mission will be amazing...

[eeergo]

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1230040907061153792

[K-P]

Glad to hear at least some updates on this mission.

I still don't understand why such "low-hanging fruits" like Phobos and Deimos have been totally forgotten all these years by NASA/ESA?
You could do Mars-science and asteroid science at the same location and take advantage of the existing orbiter network for data transmissions.
There's also less risk with this mission compared to typical asteroid mission because of the pretty well known characteristics and existing surface mapping of those bodies from previous Mars missions.

So, only Japan, only now, is the only entity even planning such a mission.
Why so...? (of course USSR/Russia had its try but...)

With the modern nanosat capability there should be a piggyback mission to those moons each and every time something else is launched to the red planet, in my opinion...

[redliox]

I still don't understand why such "low-hanging fruits" like Phobos and Deimos have been totally forgotten all these years by NASA/ESA?
You could do Mars-science and asteroid science at the same location and take advantage of the existing orbiter network for data transmissions.
There's also less risk with this mission compared to typical asteroid mission because of the pretty well known characteristics and existing surface mapping of those bodies from previous Mars missions.

The answer is simple: the glory of their parent planet outshines them.  A consolation prize is the fact Mars Express has an orbit that allows it to encounter Phobos, which prior to this mission has been the best source of recent science on the moons (with Phobos obviously hogging the attention).  There have been mission concepts proposed in the Discovery lineup many times before, but it's a big field to fight against.

So, only Japan, only now, is the only entity even planning such a mission.
Why so...? (of course USSR/Russia had its try but...)

Most likely they're eager to make some discoveries of their own plus apply their experience with the Hayabusa asteroid missions.

I'm excited for this mission.  It was something long-overdue!

[Star One]

Here’s the official press release:

http://mmx-news.isas.jaxa.jp/?p=1016&lang=en

[yoichi]

https://global.jaxa.jp/press/2020/09/20200910-2_e.html

8K Camera on the Martian Moons eXploration (MMX) Spacecraft to Take Ultra High Definition Images of Mars
September 10, 2020 (JST)

National Research & Development Agency
Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA)
Japan Broadcasting Corporation (NHK)

The Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) and Japan Broadcasting Corporation (NHK) have decided to jointly develop a “Super Hi-Vision Camera” that is capable of filming 4K and 8K images in space for JAXA’s Martian Moons eXploration (MMX) mission. This would be the first time in history that 8K ultra high definition images of Mars and its moons are taken in proximity. By combining the actual flight data of the MMX spacecraft and the images taken by the Super Hi-Vision Camera, the exploration of the MMX spacecraft around Mars and its moons (the Martian system), 300 million kilometers from the Earth, will be recreated.

JAXA is currently developing the MMX spacecraft to be launched in JFY 2024, with the aim of clarifying the origin of the Martian moons and the evolutionary process of the Martian system. MMX is an internationally high-profile sample-return mission that aims to conduct scientific observations of the Martian moons, Phobos and Deimos, and of Mars, as well as land on Phobos to collect "sand" from its surface to return to Earth.

NHK is developing the Super Hi-Vision Camera in order to visualize MMX's challenges in ultra high definition images and broadcast them widely, with cooperation from JAXA. Images taken at regular intervals are partially transmitted to Earth to create a smooth image. The original image data is planned to be stored in a recording device in MMX's return capsule and brought back to Earth.

Over the years, JAXA and NHK have continued to take on the challenge of delivering images of space development since the live broadcasting from the space shuttle in 1992, followed by high-definition filming from the Kaguya lunar orbiter, 4K filming from the International Space Station (ISS), and visualizing the asteroid probe Hayabusa2 landing operation. This time, JAXA and NHK aim to take the world's first 8K images of Mars and its moons by utilizing the expertise accumulated through the past cooperation. In addition, JAXA and NHK aim to visualize the actual behavior of the spacecraft with the Super Hi-Vision Camera, providing a high level of reality by combining the 4K/8K images and MMX's flight data. These can also be used for the operation of the spacecraft.

By filming MMX's mission in the Martian system, 300 million kilometers away from Earth, with the newly developed Super Hi-Vision Camera, JAXA and NHK will work together to convey the appeal of a new horizon that has never been seen in detail before, to many people in a vivid and inspiring way.

[eeergo]

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1423192052284678145

[russianhalo117]

MMX 2021 animation:

[MattMason]

MMX 2021 animation:

This latest animation shows things are streamlined more on the vehicle; appears quite a bit of mass has been dropped.

Hopefully that extra mass doesn't include the DLR rover. While the official JAXA site still has a post about rover testing, I've not found new information on if it will still be included. I'd like to think it will be; JAXA likes their low-gravity rovers and did well with them on Hayabusa 2.

[russianhalo117]

Update:

[russianhalo117]

Japanese version:



English version:

[redliox]

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1445297712094658562

[redliox]

Trying to calculate how close one has to get to either of the moons for a decent view; does anyone have any spreadsheets on calculating Martian orbits?

[Blackstar]

Trying to calculate how close one has to get to either of the moons for a decent view; does anyone have any spreadsheets on calculating Martian orbits?

That sorta depends on your optical system, of course. Bigger optical system, the farther away the spacecraft can be for a decent image. This one was taken by MRO from 5,800 kilometers away:

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/multimedia/20080409.html

[Comga]

https://global.jaxa.jp/press/2020/09/20200910-2_e.html

8K Camera on the Martian Moons eXploration (MMX) Spacecraft to Take Ultra High Definition Images of Mars
September 10, 2020 (JST)

National Research & Development Agency
Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA)
Japan Broadcasting Corporation (NHK)

The Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) and Japan Broadcasting Corporation (NHK) have decided to jointly develop a “Super Hi-Vision Camera” that is capable of filming 4K and 8K images in space for JAXA’s Martian Moons eXploration (MMX) mission. This would be the first time in history that 8K ultra high definition images of Mars and its moons are taken in proximity. By combining the actual flight data of the MMX spacecraft and the images taken by the Super Hi-Vision Camera, the exploration of the MMX spacecraft around Mars and its moons (the Martian system), 300 million kilometers from the Earth, will be recreated.
(Snip)

Why do this?
The image of Phobos posted by Blackstar is taken by MRO using HiRISE. That’s a Time Delay Imager with IIRC ~14k rows and an image length limited by the data storage.  Its images can be much larger than 8k by 8k but the choke point is downlink speed. They can only run HiRISE for a few minutes per day.
Ralph on New Horizons took 5k wide images in monochrome and four “colors” yet it and the other six instruments managed to fill the tens of Gb SSDRs diring the single flyby, and that took over a year to downlink, even while transmitting at twice the planned rate.
What does taking enormous single images really buy them?
It does require them to use smaller pixels or a larger camera.
What’s the rush in a rendezvous mission?

[Phil Stooke]

I think the answer to 'why do this' is that it is an outreach camera.  Remember Kaguya, which bristled with science instruments but also carried a camera system which produced beautiful videos of flight across the lunar surface.  It was also associated with the Japanese public broadcaster NHK.  Here they are again associated with this camera, and what does the release say?  "By combining the actual flight data of the MMX spacecraft and the images taken by the Super Hi-Vision Camera, the exploration of the MMX spacecraft around Mars and its moons ... will be recreated."

The actual flight data is the science.  The other images will be combined to 'recreate' the mission.  For outreach.  I remember grizzled geologists weeping with joy at the big screens showing Kaguya movies at LPSC (well, maybe that's putting it a bit strong, but I might have heard a sniffle) and I expect the same here.

[redliox]

Is there a benefit to using a quasi orbit versus a syndonic orbit? If what I read on quasi is right, it's basically traveling the same period as your target but zooming by thanks to high eccentricity. Is the high eccentricity to minimize maneuvering post-capture?

Dawn and most of the (orbital) asteroid missions seem to go slow and incrementally cuddle up to their targets. MMX seems less patient, but the goal is to return to Earth instead of loitering for science. Any reason for some of these differences?

[Timber Micka]

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1470664863319937025

[jackvancouver]

https://global.jaxa.jp/press/2020/09/20200910-2_e.html

8K Camera on the Martian Moons eXploration (MMX) Spacecraft to Take Ultra High Definition Images of Mars

I honestly think this is the coolest part of the mission. I've always seen it as public outreach that full motion video (remember each time NHK and JAXA team up, the cameras run at full frame rate. 1080i for the Lunar probe, 4K 29.97p for the Sony A7SII mounted to the station, and I really hope this is 8K 60fps on MMX) gives a more impactful impression on people vs low frame rate or stills in the right orbit.

Also, they planned long term for dead pixel replacement algorithms if you look back at the lunar mission briefs.

[Dalhousie]

Although there have been mentions, there does not seem to be a dedicated thread for this mission, due to launch next year.  Here are some links to kick things off.

https://www.mmx.jaxa.jp/en/

https://www.isas.jaxa.jp/en/missions/spacecraft/developing/mmx.html

[zubenelgenubi: There is already a thread.  Threads merged.  Thank you for the updates.]

[Dalhousie]

Australia-Japan leaders support in principle the landing of the MMX (Martian Moons eXploration) capsule in Australia.

https://www.isas.jaxa.jp/en/topics/003227.html

[Dalhousie]

JAXA and NASA sign the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) for cooperation on the MMX mission

https://www.isas.jaxa.jp/en/topics/003375.html

[Blackstar]

https://twitter.com/CNES/status/1671065692576120833

[Blackstar]

New MMX briefing.

[Blackstar]

https://www.leonarddavid.com/japans-mission-to-the-red-planet-probing-the-mysterious-moons-of-mars/?fbclid=IwAR1kgNGqvws9aADZFUY71awj8mKTTiH4kAPwQQw9yKrCUk_s-hCqRtq23X0

[redliox]

https://www.leonarddavid.com/japans-mission-to-the-red-planet-probing-the-mysterious-moons-of-mars/?fbclid=IwAR1kgNGqvws9aADZFUY71awj8mKTTiH4kAPwQQw9yKrCUk_s-hCqRtq23X0

Nice the mission's being talked about, although it's behind a paywall at Spaceref.com.

[Blackstar]

https://www.leonarddavid.com/japans-mission-to-the-red-planet-probing-the-mysterious-moons-of-mars/?fbclid=IwAR1kgNGqvws9aADZFUY71awj8mKTTiH4kAPwQQw9yKrCUk_s-hCqRtq23X0

Nice the mission's being talked about, although it's behind a paywall at Spaceref.com.

Yeah, I noticed that. Sorry.

[tul]

Because of the difficulties with the H3 Japan delayed the launch of the MMX mission to 2026. New return date is 2031.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20231206/k10014279131000.html

https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/science-nature/science/20231206-154061/

[JulesVerneATV]

The Japanese space agency JAXA confirmed the two-year delay in the launch of the Martian Moons eXploration, or MMX, mission, blaming it in part on the H3 rocket that will launch the spacecraft.
https://spacenews.com/japanese-mars-mission-launch-delayed-to-2026/
“Owing to evaluate the demonstration results of the second H3 rocket test vehicle and considering the importance to ensure sufficient time for preliminary verification of MMX on the ground, the launch schedule for Japanese rockets has been reviewed,” the agency said in a Jan. 10 statement to SpaceNews.
The H3 made its inaugural launch in March 2023 but failed to reach orbit when its second stage engine did not ignite, likely because of an electrical issue. JAXA announced Dec. 27 it had scheduled the second H3 launch for as soon as Feb. 14, carrying a test payload and two smallsats.
MMX was scheduled to launch in September 2024. It would have entered orbit around Mars in August 2025 and remained there for three years before heading back to Earth, returning in September 2029.

[redliox]

Major pity on the delay, but glad it's not a cancelation.  JAXA will still end up with the honor of bringing the first samples from the vicinity of Mars back to Earth.

[Zed_Noir]

Major pity on the delay, but glad it's not a cancelation.  JAXA will still end up with the honor of bringing the first samples from the vicinity of Mars back to Earth.

Wonder if using another launcher is an option for JAXA to avoid the 2 year delay?

[Blackstar]

Major pity on the delay, but glad it's not a cancelation.  JAXA will still end up with the honor of bringing the first samples from the vicinity of Mars back to Earth.

Wonder if using another launcher is an option for JAXA to avoid the 2 year delay?

What other launcher does Japan have that has this capability?

[DanClemmensen]

Major pity on the delay, but glad it's not a cancelation.  JAXA will still end up with the honor of bringing the first samples from the vicinity of Mars back to Earth.

Wonder if using another launcher is an option for JAXA to avoid the 2 year delay?

What other launcher does Japan have that has this capability?

I think "another launcher" is a polite euphemism for "Falcon 9".

[Blackstar]

Major pity on the delay, but glad it's not a cancelation.  JAXA will still end up with the honor of bringing the first samples from the vicinity of Mars back to Earth.

Wonder if using another launcher is an option for JAXA to avoid the 2 year delay?

What other launcher does Japan have that has this capability?

I think "another launcher" is a polite euphemism for "Falcon 9".

Not Japanese.

The idea that SpaceX solves all problems is simplistic and naive.

[DanClemmensen]

Major pity on the delay, but glad it's not a cancelation.  JAXA will still end up with the honor of bringing the first samples from the vicinity of Mars back to Earth.

Wonder if using another launcher is an option for JAXA to avoid the 2 year delay?

What other launcher does Japan have that has this capability?

I think "another launcher" is a polite euphemism for "Falcon 9".

Not Japanese.

The idea that SpaceX solves all problems is simplistic and naive.

No, but it might solve this particular problem.

Falcon 9 has become the default alternate launcher when the primary launcher in not available for whatever reason, even when there are political or business reasons to want to avoid it. Examples are OneWeb (a competitor), Kuiper (wrong multibillionaire) and Copernicus (not European). "Not Japanese" may give way to the desire to actually launch.

[TheKutKu]

Major pity on the delay, but glad it's not a cancelation.  JAXA will still end up with the honor of bringing the first samples from the vicinity of Mars back to Earth.

Wonder if using another launcher is an option for JAXA to avoid the 2 year delay?

MMX's mass was reported as 4,000 kg in 2020 https://www.mext.go.jp/kaigisiryo/content/000034537.pdf and inserted in a direct Mars transfer orbit; which is awfuly close to Falcon 9's advertised payload to mars of 4,020 kg (which also isn't a static thing, but slightly varies for each synods);

4 years later I have no doubt that the inevitable minor mass creep makes it impossible for JAXA to launch it on a Falcon 9, so the alternative is a Falcon Heavy which is possibly unavailable to order and launch on such a relatively short notice and, anyway, more expensive than a H3 and maybe unafordable for JAXA's planned budget (minimum of $97 Million vs $50-90M variously reported for H3).

ULA is booked, Ariane 64 will not be ready for the launch, HIIA is both booked, phasing out and not powerful enough, LVM3 is not capable, there are no alternatives.

[DanClemmensen]

Major pity on the delay, but glad it's not a cancelation.  JAXA will still end up with the honor of bringing the first samples from the vicinity of Mars back to Earth.

Wonder if using another launcher is an option for JAXA to avoid the 2 year delay?

MMX's mass was reported as 4,000 kg in 2020 https://www.mext.go.jp/kaigisiryo/content/000034537.pdf and inserted in a direct Mars transfer orbit; which is awfuly close to Falcon 9's advertised payload to mars of 4,020 kg (which also isn't a static thing, but slightly varies for each synods);

4 years later I have no doubt that the inevitable minor mass creep makes it impossible for JAXA to launch it on a Falcon 9, so the alternative is a Falcon Heavy which is possibly unavailable to order and launch on such a relatively short notice and, anyway, more expensive than a H3 and maybe unafordable for JAXA's planned budget (minimum of $97 Million vs $50-90M variously reported for H3).

ULA is booked, Ariane 64 will not be ready for the launch, HIIA is both booked, phasing out and not powerful enough, LVM3 is not capable, there are no alternatives.

It appears that the alternatives are an expended F9, or an FH. Or they can wait for the H3.

[TheKutKu]

Major pity on the delay, but glad it's not a cancelation.  JAXA will still end up with the honor of bringing the first samples from the vicinity of Mars back to Earth.

Wonder if using another launcher is an option for JAXA to avoid the 2 year delay?

MMX's mass was reported as 4,000 kg in 2020 https://www.mext.go.jp/kaigisiryo/content/000034537.pdf and inserted in a direct Mars transfer orbit; which is awfuly close to Falcon 9's advertised payload to mars of 4,020 kg (which also isn't a static thing, but slightly varies for each synods);

4 years later I have no doubt that the inevitable minor mass creep makes it impossible for JAXA to launch it on a Falcon 9, so the alternative is a Falcon Heavy which is possibly unavailable to order and launch on such a relatively short notice and, anyway, more expensive than a H3 and maybe unafordable for JAXA's planned budget (minimum of $97 Million vs $50-90M variously reported for H3).

ULA is booked, Ariane 64 will not be ready for the launch, HIIA is both booked, phasing out and not powerful enough, LVM3 is not capable, there are no alternatives.

It appears that the alternatives are an expended F9, or an FH. Or they can wait for the H3.

4,020 kg to TMI are for the expended F9 https://www.spacex.com/vehicles/falcon-9/; there is no alternative that is as cheap as an H3.

[DanClemmensen]

Major pity on the delay, but glad it's not a cancelation.  JAXA will still end up with the honor of bringing the first samples from the vicinity of Mars back to Earth.

Wonder if using another launcher is an option for JAXA to avoid the 2 year delay?

MMX's mass was reported as 4,000 kg in 2020 https://www.mext.go.jp/kaigisiryo/content/000034537.pdf and inserted in a direct Mars transfer orbit; which is awfuly close to Falcon 9's advertised payload to mars of 4,020 kg (which also isn't a static thing, but slightly varies for each synods);

4 years later I have no doubt that the inevitable minor mass creep makes it impossible for JAXA to launch it on a Falcon 9, so the alternative is a Falcon Heavy which is possibly unavailable to order and launch on such a relatively short notice and, anyway, more expensive than a H3 and maybe unafordable for JAXA's planned budget (minimum of $97 Million vs $50-90M variously reported for H3).

ULA is booked, Ariane 64 will not be ready for the launch, HIIA is both booked, phasing out and not powerful enough, LVM3 is not capable, there are no alternatives.

It appears that the alternatives are an expended F9, or an FH. Or they can wait for the H3.

4,020 kg to TMI are for the expended F9 https://www.spacex.com/vehicles/falcon-9/; there is no alternative that is as cheap as an H3.

But H3 is delayed, so you need to compare it to other LVs that have not yet flown successfully. Clearly, it will be better to use H3 if JAXA determines that MMX can be deferred long enough.

[vjkane]

But H3 is delayed, so you need to compare it to other LVs that have not yet flown successfully. Clearly, it will be better to use H3 if JAXA determines that MMX can be deferred long enough.

MMX is a Japanese national space agency mission. On of their goals is to use the national H3 launcher.

[DanClemmensen]

But H3 is delayed, so you need to compare it to other LVs that have not yet flown successfully. Clearly, it will be better to use H3 if JAXA determines that MMX can be deferred long enough.

MMX is a Japanese national space agency mission. On of their goals is to use the national H3 launcher.

Certainly. Another of their goals is to launch on schedule, based on orbital mechanics. They may need to decide which goal takes precedence. That may become a choice they must make.

[vjkane]

Certainly. Another of their goals is to launch on schedule, based on orbital mechanics. They may need to decide which goal takes precedence. That may become a choice they must make.

They have already made that decision and delayed MMX.

[Blackstar]

Flyby of Deimos:

https://www.youtube.com/live/cHiASEowrio

[StraumliBlight]

Developed by the Japanese space agency JAXA, the spacecraft will explore Phobos from orbit and collect samples from its surface. On board MMX is the IDEFIX rover – a collaboration between the German Aerospace Center (DLR) and the French space agency CNES.

IDEFIX will land on Phobos, analyse its surface properties and help select a suitable landing site for the MMX mothership.

The MMX mission is scheduled to launch from Japan’s Tanegashima Space Center in 2026.

This animation shows the planned mission timeline – from the journey to Mars and its moons, the exploration of Phobos from orbit and on the surface with the IDEFIX rover, to the sample collection by the mothercraft and its return to Earth.

[Blackstar]

[Apollo22]

So Japan will sample Phobos while China sample Mars. The late 2020's (2028 ?) will be pretty exciting !

[Blackstar]

One of the things I like about this MMX mission is that it may be the rare case where a mission can definitively answer a question. Often in science, the answer to one question is a bunch of more complicated questions and hopefully the beginning of settling that first question. But it can take decades to do so.

There are two theories about the origins of Mars' moons Phobos and Deimos. One is that they are captured asteroids and the other is that they are chunks of Mars. There is data that supports both theories, and neither one of them has a preponderance of evidence.

But when MMX brings back samples of Phobos (which will also include material from Mars), this should allow a definitive answer to which theory is correct.

[StraumliBlight]

Andrew Jones Bluesky [Sep 29]

JAXA's Hiroshi Yamakawa says MMX Phobos sample return mission almost ready, undergoing final testing. Launch in 2026, return to Earth with samples of the Martian moon in 2031.

[AndrewM]

Some updates over the last few months.

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1973296837000937947?s=20 [Oct. 1]

The fifth instalment of “MMX aims for Phobos” is in the September issue of ISAS News (No.534)! This month, we look at the role of the Super Hi-Vision (SHV) cameras & the Interplanetary Radiation Environment Monitor (IREM) in advancing exploration technology. (Article in Japanese)

Related article

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1975108773682516142?s=20 [Oct. 6]

At the #IAC2025, MMX was a highlight of the JAXA pavilion! A 1:20 scale MMX was on display, with a capsule used in balloon experiments to test the return of the sample in 2031. Friday welcomed the public who realised how large the spacecraft must be when they saw the capsule 👀

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1983443693441859697?s=20 [Oct. 29]

The October issue (No. 535) of #ISASNews features our 6th instalment of “MMX Aims for Phobos!” on “decluttering” 📦. There is only so much mass that we can launch, and a round-trip to Mars is heavy business. Decluttering and careful selection were essential before lift-off 🚀

Related Article

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1987716858879873162?s=20 [Nov. 9]

Your message, to the Mars orbit! 🚀
Support MMX project by sending a message to be onboard the spacecraft launching in FY2026.
You’ll receive a certificate upon submission! 🛰️
Apply now: http://goodluck-mmx.jp
📅 Nov 10, 2025 – Jan 18, 2026
*English site coming soon.

The English website is now also available here: https://goodluck-mmx.jp/en/

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1991053833024516280?s=20 [Nov. 19]

Mitsubishi Electric who developed the MMX spacecraft system made this video to explain how MMX will let us know its position 🛰️📡, even at distances as far as the Martian moons when the signal from the Earth will be weak 👀 (Subtitled in Japanese) 📺:

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/1996852171846176774?s=20 [Dec. 5]

The 7th instalment of “MMX Aims for Phobos!” Is out in the November issue of #ISASNews (No. 535)! Due to the distance between Earth and the Martian moon, Phobos, MMX must decide on its own where to land. Introducing the “autonomous descent technology” ⬇️ (In Japanese)

Related Article

[Blackstar]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/192271236@N03/54997401734/

Phobos.

[Galactic Penguin SST]

From Ars Technica:

The H3 scored a series of successful flights until December, when it failed to deliver a Japanese navigation satellite to orbit. There’s still time for engineers to investigate the failure and return the H3 to flight before MMX’s planetary launch window in October, but the H3 failure introduced some doubt into a scheduled that seemed assured before last month.

[Blackstar]

I'm working on a big article about the history of Phobos/Deimos exploration missions, focusing mainly on all the proposed human and robotic missions. I already had draft text about how the H3 failure might affect the MMX mission. I might hold my article until there's more clarity on this subject. The mission was originally scheduled for launch in 2024, but delayed by one Mars launch window due to the failure of the first H3 launch.

[AndrewM]

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/2009550727895515205?s=20 [Jan. 9]

[#GoodLuckMMX message submission period extended!]

Write us a message to travel onboard the #MMX spacecraft during the round-trip to the Martian moons, as we prepare for departure in FY2026! 🚀

Messages accepted until 2026/02/23
Send your message here 👉 https://goodluck-mmx.jp/en/

https://twitter.com/mmx_jaxa_en/status/2011347553728807053?s=20 [Jan. 14]

The December 2025 issue (No. 535) of #ISASNews features the 8th instalment of “MMX Aims for Phobos!”. This article’s theme is on “Robots for Phobos Exploration” and will feature the robot that will collect the samples, as well as the robotic rover that will explore the surface!

https://www.isas.jaxa.jp/outreach/isas_news/files/ISASnews537.pdf

https://twiter.com/ambafrancejp_jp/status/2013523784356241423?s=20 [Jan. 20]

The French delegation, during its visit to Japan, visited the Mitsubishi Electric Kamakura Works (@ME_JP_official), where the rover “IDEFIX” — a powerful symbol of the strong cooperation between the two countries — is stored. This rover is designed to explore the surface of the Martian moons. 
France expresses its gratitude to JAXA for the trust placed in French space expertise and sincerely wishes for the success of the Martian Moons eXploration (MMX) mission. 🛰️🚀

[zubenelgenubi]

Cross-post:

https://twitter.com/usembassytokyo/status/2019215733184721060 [Feb. 4]

The 🇺🇸🇯🇵 partnership is as pioneering in space as it is on Earth. During a visit to Mitsubishi Electric, Deputy Chief of Mission Aaron Snipe learned about @JAXA_jp’s groundbreaking, collaborative mission to send a probe to study Mars’ two moons and bring back the first samples from the larger one, Phobos. He also joined @ISAS_JAXA Director General Masaki Fujimoto and Mitsubishi Electric Senior General Manager Takashi Ichikawa to view Japan’s new HTV-X2 spacecraft, which will transport crucial life-support items and science and technology experiments to the @Space_Station later this year. @NASA