Flight 12 (Booster 19, Ship 39) pre-flight preparations

[catdlr]

it might be the docking adapter for the depot refueling.

Will a Starlink deploying Starship variant ever need orbital refilling? Are they just combining hardware to do various tests with the same Starship prototype?

The same question pops into my mind when I saw that B38 rollout. Yes, Kazioo, I agree, prototype of both. Time saving, one less flight. The final product(s) wouldn't have both.

Remember all the revisions of the payload door before they found one that worked. Now adding this to the mix wouldn't be what one would expect on a Fuel Depot test, but SpaceX is probably trying to validate some features of this in the next flight that doesn't interfere with the payload test.

[DanClemmensen]

Will a Starlink deploying Starship variant ever need orbital refilling? Are they just combining hardware to do various tests with the same Starship prototype?

This would be ideal for deploying a "marslink" constellation of satellites around Mars for comms and PNT. A case can be made that this should be put in place before the first landing. Roughly 24 big satellites in a medium mars orbit for comms and PNT, plus two or three for the Earth-to-Mars link. One mars-Pez should be able to handle 30 double-wides.

[InterestedEngineer]

it might be the docking adapter for the depot refueling.

Will a Starlink deploying Starship variant ever need orbital refilling? Are they just combining hardware to do various tests with the same Starship prototype?

The same question pops into my mind when I saw that B38 rollout. Yes, Kazioo, I agree, prototype of both. Time saving, one less flight. The final product(s) wouldn't have both.

Remember all the revisions of the payload door before they found one that worked. Now adding this to the mix wouldn't be what one would expect on a Fuel Depot test, but SpaceX is probably trying to validate some features of this in the next flight that doesn't interfere with the payload test.

Mass production encourages duplication of function over customization for each application.

Many urban Americans have a pickup and use the bed for its original intent maybe a few times a month.

The extended cab is used daily.

It's still cheaper and far more convenient than renting a truck that is needed for the few times a month. Last time I tried to rent a truck at Home Depot to deliver some long goods for a project their computer system broke and they couldn't rent anything.  I really need to buy a pickup.

Oscilloscope probes are standardized to 600V even though most of them never measure anything beyond 240V.

Smartphones have features I never use.  My original use, of all things, was a timer for my eggs, which the cell companies, when they used to control the firmware for phones, deleted from their lineups.

An Instant Pot can do everything from pressure cook to low&slow, because it's easier to have one item crowding our already crowded countertops, and a computer controlled pressure cookie can do a ton of other things with little additional cost.

It's hard to buy a printer that doesn't have a scanner, even though I rarely ever use the scanner.

We buy office suites, not spreadsheet tools or word processing tools.

The list is infinite

The whole idea of `the thing most only do this custom thing` comes from a notion of scarcity, in this case of scarcity of kg to orbit.   That's "old space" mentality, and it'll take least a decade of Starship flying payloads for it to go away.

Meanwhile I'm going to enjoy watching starships roll off the line with all the features needed to do the basic missions.

[catdlr]

it might be the docking adapter for the depot refueling.

Will a Starlink deploying Starship variant ever need orbital refilling? Are they just combining hardware to do various tests with the same Starship prototype?

Mass production encourages duplication of function over customization for each application.

Yes, and I agree with that assertion, but we will have an HLS version, a tanker, and a depot that might feature this Starlink door, along with the standard Starlink and perhaps some whale mouth version for lifting other commercial payloads that can't use the Starlink door, a space telescope, and oh, oh, the Earth and Mars version with all the windows and passengers. 

The picture attached illustrates a selection of all the variations available on their website. I consider the nosecone to have numerous variations, but similar construction to everything below it. Therefore, my post was specifically about the variation to the nosecone, not the rest of the vehicle, making it easy to vary just one part of the entire rocket.

[meekGee]

it might be the docking adapter for the depot refueling.

Will a Starlink deploying Starship variant ever need orbital refilling? Are they just combining hardware to do various tests with the same Starship prototype?

I'll repeat my earlier assertion:

Anything that's not a part of 2026 Mars is a "nice to have".

Of course they'll fly with a Starlink dispenser, and maybe even deploy some, but what they won't do is waste a flight that's not part of the Mars drive.

It's going to be refueling first, heat shield and recovery a close second, reuse third.

- Refuling is necessary.
- Heat shield is needed for Mars, and recovery helps avoid mishap issues on Earth.
- Reuse, if (big if) can be done quickly enough, can increase launch cadence and reduce required manufacturing, still for 2026.

Starlinks and the door and dispenser might be part of the Mars lander plan, and it never hurts to have it on board, so as long as it's a free ride why not.

Once 2026 goes by, it'll be Starlink and HLS.

[rsdavis9]

it might be the docking adapter for the depot refueling.

Will a Starlink deploying Starship variant ever need orbital refilling? Are they just combining hardware to do various tests with the same Starship prototype?

I'll repeat my earlier assertion:

Anything that's not a part of 2026 Mars is a "nice to have".

Of course they'll fly with a Starlink dispenser, and maybe even deploy some, but what they won't do is waste a flight that's not part of the Mars drive.

It's going to be refueling first, heat shield and recovery a close second, reuse third.

- Refuling is necessary.
- Heat shield is needed for Mars, and recovery helps avoid mishap issues on Earth.
- Reuse, if (big if) can be done quickly enough, can increase launch cadence and reduce required manufacturing, still for 2026.

Starlinks and the door and dispenser might be part of the Mars lander plan, and it never hurts to have it on board, so as long as it's a free ride why not.

Once 2026 goes by, it'll be Starlink and HLS.

It would be interesting to know if the reuse of f9 booster found any problems that increased the reliability of the rocket? In other words did they discover problems because they got the rocket back intact?

[ChrisC]

Y'all are spinning waaaay off topic here.  Pull it back to Flight 12 preps please?

I do like the concept of a single design for the V3 ship, initially, to cover both the Starlink delivery use case and the prop transfer test use case.  Of course they can fork it later, but for now, keep your options open and test those new outer mold lines.

In case you all didn't notice, recent imagery of S39 has shown that those hexagonal bumps appeared on the left side of the ship as well as the right side, as viewed from outside (I believe we initially only saw right side).  Still waiting for aft views.  These are the bumps that have been speculated to contain lidar or radar transmitters / receivers.

[catdlr]

Y'all are spinning waaaay off topic here.  Pull it back to Flight 12 preps please?

I do like the concept of a single design for the V3 ship, initially, to cover both the Starlink delivery use case and the prop transfer test use case.  Of course they can fork it later, but for now, keep your options open and test those new outer mold lines.

In case you all didn't notice, recent imagery of S39 has shown that those hexagonal bumps appeared on the left side of the ship as well as the right side, as viewed from outside (I believe we initially only saw right side).  Still waiting for aft views.  These are the bumps that have been speculated to contain lidar or radar transmitters / receivers.

Picture and locations attached.   Yes, I await an aft or section above the aft to see the other two pairs.

[SpaceLizard]

Y'all are spinning waaaay off topic here.  Pull it back to Flight 12 preps please?

I do like the concept of a single design for the V3 ship, initially, to cover both the Starlink delivery use case and the prop transfer test use case.  Of course they can fork it later, but for now, keep your options open and test those new outer mold lines.

In case you all didn't notice, recent imagery of S39 has shown that those hexagonal bumps appeared on the left side of the ship as well as the right side, as viewed from outside (I believe we initially only saw right side).  Still waiting for aft views.  These are the bumps that have been speculated to contain lidar or radar transmitters / receivers.

Picture and locations attached.   Yes, I await an aft or section above the aft to see the other two pairs.

I'm wondering if we can spy those spots on the future nosecones by the window before tiles go on, what might we see...

[StraumliBlight]

In case you all didn't notice, recent imagery of S39 has shown that those hexagonal bumps appeared on the left side of the ship as well as the right side, as viewed from outside (I believe we initially only saw right side).  Still waiting for aft views.  These are the bumps that have been speculated to contain lidar or radar transmitters / receivers.

Why would a lidar/radar sensor need to be embedded in the heat shield?

Starships will approach each other face on, when attempting to dock.

Maybe the 'bumpy' tiles are to shape the hypersonic airflow away from the flap hinges.

[catdlr]

In case you all didn't notice, recent imagery of S39 has shown that those hexagonal bumps appeared on the left side of the ship as well as the right side, as viewed from outside (I believe we initially only saw right side).  Still waiting for aft views.  These are the bumps that have been speculated to contain lidar or radar transmitters / receivers.

Why would a lidar/radar sensor need to be embedded in the heat shield?

Starships will approach each other face on, when attempting to dock.

Maybe the 'bumpy' tiles are to shape the hypersonic airflow away from the flap hinges.

Y'all are spinning waaaay off topic here.  Pull it back to Flight 12 preps please?

I do like the concept of a single design for the V3 ship, initially, to cover both the Starlink delivery use case and the prop transfer test use case.  Of course they can fork it later, but for now, keep your options open and test those new outer mold lines.

In case you all didn't notice, recent imagery of S39 has shown that those hexagonal bumps appeared on the left side of the ship as well as the right side, as viewed from outside (I believe we initially only saw right side).  Still waiting for aft views.  These are the bumps that have been speculated to contain lidar or radar transmitters / receivers.

Picture and locations attached.   Yes, I await an aft or section above the aft to see the other two pairs.

I'm wondering if we can spy those spots on the future nosecones by the window before tiles go on, what might we see...

Or just holes for them initially? I'll keep a lookout for them.  Thanks.

(Updated:  This is S43, and that black dot might be it.)

[r8ix]

It's the fiery side of the ship, so wouldn't they also need to be covered for the same reason the Starlinks are covered?  If on the shiny side, no I don't thing protection is neceaary.

Looks to me like they're on the shiny side (leeward), just close enough to the nose that they have tile protection. Look at the way the flaps are hinged, and the shiny straight down from the bumps.

[catdlr]

It's the fiery side of the ship, so wouldn't they also need to be covered for the same reason the Starlinks are covered?  If on the shiny side, no I don't thing protection is neceaary.

Looks to me like they're on the shiny side (leeward), just close enough to the nose that they have tile protection. Look at the way the flaps are hinged, and the shiny straight down from the bumps.

Yeah, forgot to delete that comment when I was composing that long post.

[catdlr]

Lewis Knaggs
@lewisknaggs42
·
B18 F3:4 rolled out of Starfactory. This is t he last section for B18. It first needs to be stacked under the forward portion on the right turn table and then that will be stacked on the aft of B18 which will complete the first V3 booster stacking.

https://twitter.com/lewisknaggs42/status/1981063574870249686

[DanClemmensen]

Will a Starlink deploying Starship variant ever need orbital refilling? Are they just combining hardware to do various tests with the same Starship prototype?

This would be ideal for deploying a "marslink" constellation of satellites around Mars for comms and PNT. A case can be made that this should be put in place before the first landing. Roughly 24 big satellites in a medium mars orbit for comms and PNT, plus two or three for the Earth-to-Mars link. One mars-Pez should be able to handle 30 double-wides.

And of course SpaceX already thought of this. There is a short segment of Elon's Mars presentation that shows a deployment of marslinks from a Pez in Mars orbit:
    https://www.spacex.com/humanspaceflight/mars
(42-minute presentation. The segment starts at minute 38.)

[catdlr]

There are also 2 interesting hexagonal-pyramid shaped tiles visible between the top of the nose vent thingy and the top of the forward flaps.

It would help me a lot if you could at least provide the link to the post so I can find what you are referring to.

Is it these two items?

Asymmetrical positioned.  I would like to see the other side, if there are two positions there as well.  Then I would like to see if a group of two pairs is positioned near the aft end.  If they are, then I'll give you my opinion.

Ryan Caton
@dpoddolphinpro
·
"For rendezvous, Starships will be equipped with DragonEye navigation sensors" - Fun Fact:
@SpaceX tested DragonEye on 2 Space Shuttle missions: STS-127 & STS-133.

This means that, technically, hardware derived from Shuttle-flown hardware will fly on Starship. So cool.

https://twitter.com/dpoddolphinpro/status/1983932272597254426

[AndrewM]

Starship Block 3 and HLS: The path to get back to the Moon [Nov. 1]

The first full flight test of Block 3 is scheduled to involve Booster 18 and Ship 39 and is expected to launch sometime in Quarter 1 of 2026. Currently, neither vehicle is complete in construction, and, based on the best timelines using past boosters and ships as reference points, neither will likely begin cryogenic proof testing until December.

4 Raptor 3s leaving McGregor potentially for Booster 18.

https://twitter.com/SpaceRhin0/status/1985869467818344704 [Nov. 4]

New High Score!

Earlier today we saw not one, not two, not three but four Raptor 3's roll past at McGregor! This included R3.54 which is a new high score for seen R3's!
This seems to indicate a big shift in the speed at which R3 is being tested!

📷: https://nsf.live/mcgregor

Next section (Aft 2) of Ship 39 moved on November 1st in preparation for stacking from the latest "daily".

An additional section (A3:4) rolled on November 4th.
https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1985919092172185698

Starship Flight 12: Ship 39 is making progress, with barrel section A3:4 rolling to MB2.

http://nsf.live/starbase

[StraumliBlight]

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1986086826600186264

SpaceX's Kiko Dontchev says at the Economist Space Summit this morning that the company's goal for 2025 is 165–170 Falcon 9 launches (currently at 140).

He adds the first V3 Starship launch could take place as soon as January; a booster will be rolling out to the pad for tests in "days to weeks".

[AndrewM]

Status of S39 as of the latest daily ("One last shower of flames from the old launch mount" | SpaceX Starbase) published November 5th.

[AndrewM]

More engines leaving McGregor potentially for Flight 12 and S39 in MB2.

https://twitter.com/SpaceRhin0/status/1986498135254839705?s=20 [Nov. 6]

1/2 for today so far, 4 more engines leaving the McGregor test area! This pace is starting to be impressive!
Interestingly R30 seemed to make its way back over to the test stands since yesterday...

📷: https://nsf.live/mcgregor

https://twitter.com/SpaceRhin0/status/1988014090422546702?s=20 [Nov. 10]

4 more out of McGregor!

They've been busy, R3.63, R3.57, R3.58 and R3.47 leaving the McGregor test area!

📷: https://nsf.live/mcgregor