Author Topic: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024  (Read 100483 times)

Offline StraumliBlight

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Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« on: 04/06/2024 06:13 pm »
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At Starbase on Thursday, April 4, SpaceX Chief Engineer Elon Musk provided an update on the company’s plans to send humanity to Mars, the best destination to begin making life multiplanetary.



https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1776669517860786631?s=46&t=u9hd-jMa-pv47GCVD-xH-g

« Last Edit: 04/06/2024 07:32 pm by StraumliBlight »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #1 on: 04/06/2024 06:54 pm »
 :o

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #2 on: 04/06/2024 06:59 pm »
The whole presentation on YT:


Offline leovinus

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #3 on: 04/06/2024 07:00 pm »
:o
While I need to watch the presentation, doubling the payload would roughly halve the number of HLS tanker flights it seems. At the price of extending the development by x months of course. So is this is "double payload" concept indeed to address concerns or more like "Well, because we can"?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #4 on: 04/06/2024 07:10 pm »
Elon said if flight 4 goes well with booster return then may try to come back to tower as soon as flight 5 !

He thinks a successful booster catch with the chopsticks this year is 80 - 90%
« Last Edit: 04/06/2024 07:12 pm by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #5 on: 04/06/2024 07:14 pm »
Raptor 3 has been really simplified.

Offline novo2044

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #6 on: 04/06/2024 07:22 pm »
Raptor 3 has been really simplified.
Well per Elon they simple moved a lot of external stuff and made it internal as well as adding integrated cooling channels so the surface appearance is somewhat misleading.  He also mentioned building them is challenging, which makes sense.  They are pretty cagey with the details of Raptor but would be fascinating to see how they crammed all the conduits into the walls of the engine

Offline ZachF

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #7 on: 04/06/2024 07:56 pm »
Looks like it’s getting an old soviet style hot staging interstage.

Starship 3 is not that far away from the old ITS specs…  :o
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Offline ZachF

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #8 on: 04/06/2024 08:06 pm »
Also note, aiming for $2m for 200 tonnes, which is $10/kg LEO.. even missing by a factor of 5 is still a crazy $50/kg.

Canard redesign doesn’t look as bad as I was fearing it could.
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #9 on: 04/06/2024 08:16 pm »
https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1776676390735163511

Quote
Some interesting notes:

Flight 4 in a month or so. Aim to get through the high heating regime. Into the ocean at a controlled spot - a virtual tower (soft water landing technique).

If that works, "Flight 5 will land on the Tower" (catch the booster with the chopsticks).

99 percent of all mass from Earth to orbit when Starship is flying (fully operational).

Goal to get 200 tons to orbit with full reusability.

Two pinpoint soft landings are required for Ship for catches. Maybe next year.

Two Towers by sometime next year. Two at Starbase. Two at the Cape - first operation middle of next year (will be 39A).

Planning to build another roughly six boosters and ships and that production rate will increase a lot next year. That's why we're building the giant factory.

Per Mars, need more ships than boosters. - "aim to ramp production to pretty high numbers, ultimately probably a ship every, like multiple ships per day".

Next year aiming to demonstrate ship-to-ship propellant transfer.

Lunar Starship - "we need landing legs. And you don't need a heat shield and you don't need flaps because there's no atmosphere. So the Moon ship would be specialized".

Performance - "we've made dramatic progress on every level for Starship has evolved from, you know, optimistically 185 tons to 280".

"We'll aim to get the booster engines over 330 tons of thrust, which would mean 10,000 tons of total thrust at liftoff. Raptor 3 also will not need a heat shield".

Cost: "The Starship 3 (much taller version) will be 400 times more payload for less than the cost of a Falcon 1. Ultimately, I think we might be able to get the cost per flight to Earth orbit down to around $2 million or $3 million".

Lots about Mars Base Alpha.

Long-term - "we'll probably have some offshore launch sites".

Quote
Some nice slides from the update:

Offline Twark_Main

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #10 on: 04/06/2024 11:04 pm »
Quote from: Elon Musk
@25:50

You'll actually want to take apart the ship and use it for raw materials on Mars, because the ship materials will be so valuable. Most of the ships you wouldn't want to bring back, you just want to use them for raw materials.

Eventually we will want to bring ships back. And I think we will want to give people the option of coming back, because they're more likely to go if there's some option of coming back. But I think most of the people that go to Mars will probably never come back to Earth.


This is new.   #ZubrinWasRight

Easy enough to add a bolt ring interface and tweak the bulkhead layout to be easily separable, so the tanks become... tanks, and the hab section becomes a hab. Smart reuse.

Flight-proven pressure habs and tank hardware (simply requiring recertification for reuse) is a lot more valuable than the material cost. Flight-rated aerospace hardware is more expensive (in cost, outpost complexity, and in early stages even attainability) beyond just obtaining those same raw materials. So it's highly beneficial if you can efficiently reuse (vs melt down and recycle) some large fraction of the total vehicle mass.


That said, some stuff is harder to repurpose. I expect lots of Raptors will ultimately get melted down, and lots of weird projects using hexagonal tiles.   8)  And any Martian worth their salt will have a bodyflap actuator drawbridge...

Offline mandrewa

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #11 on: 04/06/2024 11:41 pm »
Quote from: Elon Musk
@25:50

You'll actually want to take apart the ship and use it for raw materials on Mars, because the ship materials will be so valuable. Most of the ships you wouldn't want to bring back, you just want to use them for raw materials.


This is new.

I've never said it.  But I have been thinking this for some time.

This is an argument by the way for not getting too fancy with carbon composites and the like because it will be easier to reuse metals.

Offline Anguy

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #12 on: 04/06/2024 11:45 pm »
It looks like payload volume will be increased only a little. What good is 200 tons to orbit, if you can fit only 100 tons of Starlinks inside?

Offline edzieba

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #13 on: 04/06/2024 11:47 pm »
Raptor 3 has been really simplified.
Lots of bolted assemblies changed to weldments. Appears to be a separation plane in the middle of the pump-to-injector Methane manifold, engine appears to split in half around this, would mean turbomachinery needs to be stuffed in and the engine closed up around it (as turbofan engines are assembled).

Offline catdlr

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #14 on: 04/07/2024 12:00 am »
Perhaps the design of the Hot Staging Ring is changing?
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Offline Twark_Main

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #15 on: 04/07/2024 12:04 am »

Offline testguy

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #16 on: 04/07/2024 12:23 am »
looks like we see a ring section of the LUNAR LANDER in the interior photo of the Star Factory.  I believe the third ring from the front shows cut outs for the decent engines

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #17 on: 04/07/2024 12:28 am »
https://twitter.com/RGVaerialphotos/status/1776767536031232507

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RGV Aerial Photography
@RGVaerialphotos
Quick photoshop to help visualize how tall Starship V3 will be.
*Ignore the SQD
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Offline Twark_Main

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #18 on: 04/07/2024 12:59 am »
It looks like payload volume will be increased only a little. What good is 200 tons to orbit, if you can fit only 100 tons of Starlinks inside?

Methalox plus 3 mm steel has a mass of 69.3 metric tons per meter of height.

Working backwards from the given propellant capacities and heights, if Flight 3 has 1000 m3 of internal volume, then Starship 2 has 784 m3, and Starship 3 has 1176 m3.

This is precisely 1.5x the cargo volume from Starship 2 to Starship 3. The number is suspiciously round, leading me to think this is exactly the "napkin math" that was used to generate the chart.
« Last Edit: 04/07/2024 01:02 am by Twark_Main »

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Re: Elon Starship Update presentation - April 2024
« Reply #19 on: 04/07/2024 01:05 am »
Grid fins now again 90deg apart? Also looks like they are very low and actuators are inside the tank...
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