Author Topic: Modular Mars  (Read 130704 times)

Offline Ionmars

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Modular Mars
« on: 07/06/2020 06:35 pm »

A number of discussions on NSF forums have elaborated on magnificent structures that may be developed on Mars. One example is the thread “Envisioning Amazing Martian Habitats.”
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41427.0
This thread, however, is devoted to the process of developing an initial pioneering village and infrastructure. It begins with the first human landing and proceeds toward a modest settlement of 1000 people, the first baby step s toward constructing beautiful Martian cities.

In the pioneering stage, efficient methods of setting up habitats, greenhouse, power units, and mechanical shops would have a high priority. One way of achieving efficiency is to design modular units that may be delivered to Mars inside cargo Starships and set up quickly. Here are some options:

Large cargo modules
In the past, I favored large pressurized cargo modules that would take up the entire volume of the SS cargo bay. Each module would be pre-equipped as a habitat, a greenhouse,  or a chemical processing unit that could begin operations quickly. If the SS payload was comprised of small packages and small equipment, then the empty shell of the module could be reused as a chemical storage tank. The premise of this approach was that after the module was unloaded, SS would launch back to Earth to be re-used.

Starships as modules
Since the design of SS has changed to inexpensive stainless steel, the prospect of an “unreasonably cheap” SS has arisen. If this becomes reality, then each starship itself could be designed as a pre-equipped module to land on Mars. In this case, each landed SS module would become a component of a growing pioneering village and would not return to Earth.

Equipment modules
Large equipment, such as a crane, could be designed as modular components that can be broken down for transport inside an SS payload bay. Such modules would be unloaded on Mars and then reassembled. High value would be given to an assembly method that involved a minimum of “spacesuit-hours.”  A less expensive development option could begin with an OTS version of equipment that could be modularized just to fit inside the cargo bay, but may take longer to reassemble.

Mars village layout
I envision an initial Mars village where each modular habitat, greenhouse, and mechanical shop would be contain its own life support equipment, rather than a community-wide system. This approach would represent a safety policy. In case one module experienced a punctured wall or equipment failure, people could evacuate to another unit.

While each “humanity module” would potentially be self-sufficient, I suggest that they should be joined together by an inter-connected hallway system. This would allow daily transit of people and equipment between modules without the time-consuming donning of spacesuits.

If whole SS’s are employed as modules, they could be set up in either upright or horizontal position. It would depend how each one is to be used.

I suggest that all humanity modules and hallways should be protected from cosmic-galactic radiation. This may involve various kinds of shielding, regolith covering, or tunneling.

Focus:
The time for the first SS cargo landing on Mars is approaching. So let us think about how a first settlement  should (or shouldn’t be) set up. Because SpX engineers sometimes read these forums I suggest we think of them as an audience for our discussions. Within their budget they can’t think of everything, so sometimes we may even mention something useful!

[References to other NSF threads would also be helpful.]

Offline GregTheGrumpy

Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #1 on: 07/07/2020 03:25 am »
The first three things I see happening are "rolling" out the solar panels (includes the electrical cables) to connect a solar energy starship that is full of batteries and their controllers.  This provides a distribution point (of which there may be more than one initially).  The second thing I see is plugging in the In-Ship ISRU landed nearby to the energy starship.  It may need to bring along some seed stocks so it can be fired up after plugging in to make sure that things work prior to humans arriving on the scene.  Finally deploying a "Prufrock" to begin digging some tunnels deep enough into the regolith to create some initial  seal-able volume where a couple of pressure hatches can be installed.  These items seem necessary to create a work camp that can be used for the oxygen breathers while other more friendly elements are built.

They might not be able to be fully fitted out fully robotically but they should be able to run the solar panels out and plug in to the ISRU ship.  I'm not talking full AI type robotics here, btw, I'm suggesting a moderate amount of capability and earth based teleoperation.

These type of things could be practiced on earth before shipping to make sure we have all the parts packed.  Nothing like a long trip and leaving something essential behind.

Perhaps we can also add to the discussion by describing how the testing should be done.  All of the parts of an ECLSS and communications network have to be included eventually.

My opening thoughts on this subject.

Thanks for opening the post, I'm hugely interested in this.

-gg

Offline kkattula

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #2 on: 07/07/2020 04:40 am »
I'm fully onboard with inexpensive stainless steel Starships being deployed as pre-configured modules:

Propellant ISRU is an obvious candidate. The SS propellant tanks can be used for holding the output until it's transferred to other Starships or storage.

Large habitat ECLSS is another. Again the tanks could be used with minor mods for holding and reserves.

Other industrial processes may have similar requirements.


For some purposes, like power processing & storage, in the long run it might make more sense to use a crane to remove the whole specialized nose section, and place it where needed, then recycle the propulsion section. As storage tanks, buried habitat pressure vessels, or just as building materials.

One possibility is to send nose sections outfitted as multi-level habitats, that could be removed and lowered into holes then mostly covered with regolith. 
« Last Edit: 07/07/2020 04:45 am by kkattula »

Offline akm

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #3 on: 07/07/2020 02:15 pm »
I like the idea of a thread for the start of the mars invasion.  If spacex is serious about the 2022 start shouldn't we be seeing the start of payload development or testing.  If there any clue from talks or job postings.  Is there paperwork that needs to be filed to land an installation on mars ?

Offline Ionmars

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #4 on: 07/07/2020 09:18 pm »
I like the idea of a thread for the start of the mars invasion.  If spacex is serious about the 2022 start shouldn't we be seeing the start of payload development or testing.  If there any clue from talks or job postings.  Is there paperwork that needs to be filed to land an installation on mars ?
:D
I have worked in a bureaucracy... nothing interplanetary.

Offline Ionmars

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #5 on: 07/07/2020 09:40 pm »
The first three things I see happening are "rolling" out the solar panels (includes the electrical cables) to connect a solar energy starship that is full of batteries and their controllers.  This provides a distribution point (of which there may be more than one initially).  The second thing I see is plugging in the In-Ship ISRU landed nearby to the energy starship.  It may need to bring along some seed stocks so it can be fired up after plugging in to make sure that things work prior to humans arriving on the scene.  Finally deploying a "Prufrock" to begin digging some tunnels deep enough into the regolith to create some initial  seal-able volume where a couple of pressure hatches can be installed.  These items seem necessary to create a work camp that can be used for the oxygen breathers while other more friendly elements are built.

They might not be able to be fully fitted out fully robotically but they should be able to run the solar panels out and plug in to the ISRU ship.  I'm not talking full AI type robotics here, btw, I'm suggesting a moderate amount of capability and earth based teleoperation.

These type of things could be practiced on earth before shipping to make sure we have all the parts packed.  Nothing like a long trip and leaving something essential behind.

Perhaps we can also add to the discussion by describing how the testing should be done.  All of the parts of an ECLSS and communications network have to be included eventually.

My opening thoughts on this subject.

Thanks for opening the post, I'm hugely interested in this.

-gg
I’m on the same page as you.

I believe Elon has described solar rollout as similar to using a party-favor “blowout" to uncoil a linear strip of flexible solar panels.

Would like to know more details of what testing should be done.

Offline Ionmars

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #6 on: 07/08/2020 07:49 am »
One intriguing option is the use of SS's as modules to build an initial Mars village. The SS components that could be used as livable volume are the payload bay/fairing and the fuel/O2 tanks. I don’t know whether these two components will be easily separable.

Last year I posted a sketch of how a basic “humanity=module” could be set up using a cylinder, which could be the fuel/O2 tank with a common bulkhead.

"Before we get to the “Amazing” habitats recorded here, we may require some interim shelters. These would be simple structures that could be set up with a minimum of equipment and materials, just Mars pioneer "log cabins" but without the logs.

The sketch below depicts a cylinder partially buried in a trench and covered with regolith. The cylinder could be a large Starship cargo module (8m x 20m) laid horizontally. However, it incorporates a few extra features to enhance its cosmic ray protection and its isolation from cryogenically cold regolith.

To enhance insulation properties it is laid in a trench on small pillars (stones) or beams. The bottom of the cylinder should not touch regolith, so that the only conduction of cold from the ground occurs through the pillars.

The top half is covered by an arc comprised of water ice. Ice blocks may be a preferred because the arc could serve as a compression element to carry its own weight and that of the regolith overburden. The cylinder, being a pressure vessel, would be in tension. The space between the two surfaces would be Mars air which is close to a vacuum and would act like a Thermos bottle.

Regolith would provide the first cosmic ray shield with the water ice layer capturing secondary neutrons before reaching the cylinder.”


Offline Ionmars

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #7 on: 07/08/2020 07:59 am »
The simplicity of this habitat may be misleading. How do we get from unloading solar panels* to actually establishing this Martian log cabin (without the logs)? What tools and equipment would be required? What are the step-by-step procedures?

Crane and backhoe?

Added: * From Greg the Grumpy above.
« Last Edit: 07/08/2020 01:23 pm by Ionmars »

Offline rakaydos

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #8 on: 07/08/2020 12:47 pm »
I expect the first landing, before any humans, will have a at least pair of winch-equipped cybertrucks and at least 4 Boston Dynamics Spots with manipulator arms. Bonus points if the cybertruck bed mounts can be customized using spot manipulators, so all the heavy work vehicals can use the same chassis.

With 2 years for site prep, you can get a lot done even with "hand tools."

Offline Ionmars

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #9 on: 07/08/2020 01:04 pm »
I expect the first landing, before any humans, will have a at least pair of winch-equipped cybertrucks and at least 4 Boston Dynamics Spots with manipulator arms. Bonus points if the cybertruck bed mounts can be customized using spot manipulators, so all the heavy work vehicals can use the same chassis.

With 2 years for site prep, you can get a lot done even with "hand tools."
Sounds like a good approach for initial exploration of the site. Any ideas for the program of operation?


Offline Ionmars

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #10 on: 07/08/2020 01:11 pm »
Very interested in the ground conditions at the landing site. Last year a NASA probe tried to drill for water but hit very hard regolith or stone and couldn’t complete the operation. If the ground at the SS landing site is this hard, then the procedure for digging a shallow trench with a loader, as implied by the my sketch above, won’t work. Some other approach will be needed.

Offline Ionmars

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #11 on: 07/08/2020 02:04 pm »
The first three things I see happening are "rolling" out the solar panels (includes the electrical cables) to connect a solar energy starship that is full of batteries and their controllers.  This provides a distribution point (of which there may be more than one initially).
...
...
Last year Lamontagne posted another method for rolling out solar panels on a linear strip.

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #12 on: 07/08/2020 02:28 pm »
Very interested in the ground conditions at the landing site. Last year a NASA probe tried to drill for water but hit very hard regolith or stone and couldn’t complete the operation. If the ground at the SS landing site is this hard, then the procedure for digging a shallow trench with a loader, as implied by the my sketch above, won’t work. Some other approach will be needed.
That is why I think any initial build up on Mars will be slow.  These issues have to be figured out or a lot of money and time will be wasted.

Offline steveleach

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #13 on: 07/08/2020 03:50 pm »
Very interested in the ground conditions at the landing site. Last year a NASA probe tried to drill for water but hit very hard regolith or stone and couldn’t complete the operation. If the ground at the SS landing site is this hard, then the procedure for digging a shallow trench with a loader, as implied by the my sketch above, won’t work. Some other approach will be needed.
That is why I think any initial build up on Mars will be slow.  These issues have to be figured out or a lot of money and time will be wasted.
Sometimes "wasting" time and money is a good thing, when the cost of not doing something is very high.

SpaceX seem very willing to take this approach with Starship, and will likely be just as willing with a Mars base/settlement/colony/city.

Offline Ionmars

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #14 on: 07/08/2020 05:16 pm »
The first three things I see happening are "rolling" out the solar panels (includes the electrical cables) to connect a solar energy starship that is full of batteries and their controllers.  This provides a distribution point (of which there may be more than one initially).
...
...

...
...
I believe Elon has described solar rollout as similar to using a party-favor “blowout" to uncoil a linear strip of flexible solar panels.

AIUI Elon’s blowout would have the solar cells s embedded onto a flat balloon-like strip. The balloon would be rolled up into a tight coil, which would be under tension to maintain the coil shape. To activate, air (Mars atmosphere) would be pumped into the balloon, forcing it to uncoil into a straight panel with solar cells facing upward.

Some party blowouts:

Offline Ionmars

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #15 on: 07/08/2020 05:37 pm »
I expect the first landing, before any humans, will have a at least pair of winch-equipped cybertrucks and at least 4 Boston Dynamics Spots with manipulator arms. Bonus points if the cybertruck bed mounts can be customized using spot manipulators, so all the heavy work vehicals can use the same chassis.

With 2 years for site prep, you can get a lot done even with "hand tools."
Sounds like a good approach for initial exploration of the site. Any ideas for the program of operation?
I would like Spot to pull a cart of instruments on a series of forays in a 1km circle around the landing sight. Instruments would have to be autonomous and operate off the back of the cart.

Soil characteristics to test might include regolith hardness, depth to water, and soil article size distribution. These measurements would tell us how to proceed with the next steps, including emplacement of the habitat posted in Reply #6.

Added: 1km may be too ambitious. What is the range of Spot’s travel, so he can get back to the landing site to recharge his batteries?
« Last Edit: 07/08/2020 05:46 pm by Ionmars »

Offline inonepiece

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #16 on: 07/08/2020 05:48 pm »
Just wanted to say thank you for creating and posting in this thread, this all makes me feel like I'm living through a cross between Kim Stanley Robinson's "Red Mars" and a Neal Stephenson novel (rather than in some dystopian George Orwell novel perhaps, which is more what I get from twitter and the news recently).

Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #17 on: 07/08/2020 05:55 pm »
Very interested in the ground conditions at the landing site. Last year a NASA probe tried to drill for water but hit very hard regolith or stone and couldn’t complete the operation. If the ground at the SS landing site is this hard, then the procedure for digging a shallow trench with a loader, as implied by the my sketch above, won’t work. Some other approach will be needed.
That is why I think any initial build up on Mars will be slow.  These issues have to be figured out or a lot of money and time will be wasted.
Sometimes "wasting" time and money is a good thing, when the cost of not doing something is very high.

SpaceX seem very willing to take this approach with Starship, and will likely be just as willing with a Mars base/settlement/colony/city.
I disagree.  I don't think SpaceX is wasting time and money right now on developing Starship.  They are doing rapid prototyping in an efficient manner.  One Mars if you try something and it doesn't work you have to wait 26 months to try again.  With Starship they can do 10 major revisions in a year.  To try 10 major revisions on Mars will take you 2 decades.  That's a big difference in both time and money even if your transportation costs are negligible.

Offline Vanspace

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #18 on: 07/08/2020 06:32 pm »
The first three things I see happening are "rolling" out the solar panels (includes the electrical cables) to connect a solar energy starship that is full of batteries and their controllers.  This provides a distribution point (of which there may be more than one initially).
...
...

...
...
I believe Elon has described solar rollout as similar to using a party-favor “blowout" to uncoil a linear strip of flexible solar panels.

AIUI Elon’s blowout would have the solar cells s embedded onto a flat balloon-like strip. The balloon would be rolled up into a tight coil, which would be under tension to maintain the coil shape. To activate, air (Mars atmosphere) would be pumped into the balloon, forcing it to uncoil into a straight panel with solar cells facing upward.

Some party blowouts:

I believe the party favor style will be used but only in a limited way. The best use of the party favor idea is as cargo in the engine bay pods. That way blowing them can lay them out as the very first thing done on the surface. The early and simple deployment allows enough electrical power to start all of the other deployment activities.

However, because the party favor idea requires a tube of film to inflate (rather than just one layer) it doubles the mass of film required per watt. Secondly, try actually blowing a party favor sometime. From my experience, most of the time the party favor will not roll and unroll smoothly. Bends, twists and other problems during inflation are very common and generally only smooth out at the end when a large overpressure is holding the whole tube stiff. On mars that would mean using high pressure to straighten the tube and thus drag over sharp rocks with all the risk that entails. No matter how well you line it up and aim, actually rolling out the way you intend is mostly a matter of luck. Every rock and bump will change the direction at the least if not stop the rollout. Then there is wind on a large plastic sheet with no hold downs. Having 3 out of 5 rolls actually lay properly is probably good enough for the initial landing (just slows deployment).

Lamontange's and other deployment systems need half the mass delivered per watt. They can accurately lay out a grid so connecting wires length can be standardized. They can automatically anchor the roll so wind doesn't move it.

Party favors make lots of sense for the very first power laid out but have huge drawbacks for installing longterm power.
« Last Edit: 07/08/2020 06:46 pm by Vanspace »
"p can not equal zero" is the only scientific Truth. I could be wrong (p<0.05)

Offline Ionmars

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Re: Modular Mars
« Reply #19 on: 07/08/2020 07:23 pm »
I believe the party favor style will be used but only in a limited way. The best use of the party favor idea is as cargo in the engine bay pods. That way blowing them can lay them out as the very first thing done on the surface. The early and simple deployment allows enough electrical power to start all of the other deployment activities.

...
...
Lamontange's and other deployment systems need half the mass delivered per watt. They can accurately lay out a grid so connecting wires length can be standardized. They can automatically anchor the roll so wind doesn't move it.

Party favors make lots of sense for the very first power laid out but have huge drawbacks for installing longterm power.
You have o good point.
The one drawback to Lamontagne’s proposal as shown in the above image is that the coil is unrolled at the bottom. This means that the whole panel strip is dragged along the ground surface as it unrolls. Rough or jagged terrain would likely damage the solar cell strip.

I think we could alleviate this problem by pulling out the coil rather than puling the end of the strip.  Place a dowel through the center of the coli and roll out by pulling on the ends of the dowel. As the coil unrolls, the laid-down portion of the strip stays in place. This hybrid method would be easier to control, would avoid friction with the ground, and would still retain the advantage of Elon’s blowout.

 

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