Author Topic: Will "Pot Smoking" by Musk compromise his security clearance?  (Read 12323 times)

Offline Brovane

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1285
  • United States
  • Liked: 828
  • Likes Given: 1797
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/air-force-is-looking-into-elon-musks-pot-smoking-source.html

Quote
Musk's SpaceX provides services for the Air Force, with multiple high-value contracts. Marijuana use is prohibited for someone with a government security clearance, Fox Business reported, and is the central issue in the Air Force's inquiry.

Any concerns that smoking Marijuana in Public will compromise Musk's security clearance? 

--

USAF say this is false.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 12:38 pm by Chris Bergin »
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline rockets4life97

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 798
  • Liked: 538
  • Likes Given: 365
Re: USAF looking into "Pot Smoking" by Musk
« Reply #1 on: 09/09/2018 03:26 am »
Inaccurate says the Air Force via Reuters

Offline deruch

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2422
  • California
  • Liked: 2006
  • Likes Given: 5634
Re: USAF looking into "Pot Smoking" by Musk
« Reply #2 on: 09/09/2018 03:30 am »
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/air-force-is-looking-into-elon-musks-pot-smoking-source.html

Quote
Musk's SpaceX provides services for the Air Force, with multiple high-value contracts. Marijuana use is prohibited for someone with a government security clearance, Fox Business reported, and is the central issue in the Air Force's inquiry.

Any concerns about this?
Reuters article quoting USAF spokesman saying otherwise[/quote]

Quote
Media reports that the U.S. Air Force is reviewing the security clearance of Elon Musk, the chief executive of automaker Tesla Inc are inaccurate, U.S. Air Force spokesperson Captain Hope Cronin said on Friday.

Of course, what's true today may change by tomorrow.  And sometimes the spokesperson won't have the absolute most up-to-the-minute information on relatively "breaking" stories.  So, who knows.  But regardless, no not a concern either way.  And as for the original reporting, easy to imagine an Air Force guy/gal casually mentioning to a reporter friend that "Elon might get his clearance looked at because of the joint".  Which could very easily get twitter reported as a "source" saying the Air Force would be looking into it; all without tooo much stretching. 

EDIT: ninja'd by rockets4life97.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 03:34 am by deruch »
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline CJ

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1302
  • Liked: 1282
  • Likes Given: 540
Re: USAF looking into "Pot Smoking" by Musk
« Reply #3 on: 09/09/2018 03:54 am »
As a purely practical matter, pertinent to anyone who holds a US government security clearance, illegal drug use can and often is a disqualifier for a security clearance (or grounds for revocation).

And before anyone tells me that "marijuana is legal in California," no, it is not. Recreational marijuana use is illegal under federal law, and federal law is what counts regarding security clearances. California cannot change federal law, where marijuana remains a class 1 listed substance. The feds usually don't enforce this much in states that have legalized under state law, but there are exceptions, and one is when it comes to security clearances.

https://news.clearancejobs.com/2018/06/02/marijuana-use-and-your-security-clearance/

As to whether the Air Force will or will not act on this, it appears to be discretionary. I hope they don't.

My advice to anyone who holds a security clearance would be to (or until the law changes) refrain from apparently using said substance, particularly on camera. 
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 03:56 am by CJ »

Offline meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14158
  • N. California
  • Liked: 14046
  • Likes Given: 1392
Re: USAF looking into "Pot Smoking" by Musk
« Reply #4 on: 09/09/2018 04:06 am »
It's a unique situation for the AF...

If revoking the CEO's clearance means that the AF can't have the benefit of using F9s and having insight into BFS development - what would they choose to do?

Is there a law that says they HAVE to revoke clearance, or just a law that says that they CAN?

(This is what happens when you write laws that criminalize large sections of the population.)

-----
ABCD: Always Be Counting Down

ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: USAF looking into "Pot Smoking" by Musk
« Reply #5 on: 09/09/2018 04:09 am »
This has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Brovane

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1285
  • United States
  • Liked: 828
  • Likes Given: 1797
Re: USAF looking into "Pot Smoking" by Musk
« Reply #6 on: 09/09/2018 04:15 am »
This has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.

Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked.  This hasn't been debunked. 
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: USAF looking into "Pot Smoking" by Musk
« Reply #7 on: 09/09/2018 04:21 am »
This has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.

Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked.  This hasn't been debunked.
I won't debate. The story of the headline and title of this thread has been debunked. So yeah, it has. Next thread, please.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 04:22 am by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Brovane

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1285
  • United States
  • Liked: 828
  • Likes Given: 1797
Re: USAF looking into "Pot Smoking" by Musk
« Reply #8 on: 09/09/2018 04:41 am »
This has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.

Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked.  This hasn't been debunked.
I won't debate. The story of the headline and title of this thread has been debunked. So yeah, it has. Next thread, please.

Changed the title of thread. 

"Will "Pot Smoking" by Musk compromise his security clearance" 

"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re:
« Reply #9 on: 09/09/2018 04:43 am »
This has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.

Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked.  This hasn't been debunked.
I won't debate. The story of the headline and title of this thread has been debunked. So yeah, it has. Next thread, please.

Changed the title of thread. 

"Will "Pot Smoking" by Musk compromise his security clearance"
You didn't change in your reply. And this has already been discussed in thread(s) that are now locked.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Brovane

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1285
  • United States
  • Liked: 828
  • Likes Given: 1797
Re:
« Reply #10 on: 09/09/2018 04:52 am »
This has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.

Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked.  This hasn't been debunked.
I won't debate. The story of the headline and title of this thread has been debunked. So yeah, it has. Next thread, please.

Changed the title of thread. 

"Will "Pot Smoking" by Musk compromise his security clearance"
You didn't change in your reply. And this has already been discussed in thread(s) that are now locked.

We know that smoking Marijuana can compromise a person's security clearance. 

Musk smoked Marijuana in a very Public setting. 

This is a serious discussion, if you don't want to have a serious discussion on this topic please move on. 
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline jbenton

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
  • Liked: 153
  • Likes Given: 702
Re: USAF looking into "Pot Smoking" by Musk
« Reply #11 on: 09/09/2018 04:57 am »
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/air-force-is-looking-into-elon-musks-pot-smoking-source.html

Quote
Musk's SpaceX provides services for the Air Force, with multiple high-value contracts. Marijuana use is prohibited for someone with a government security clearance, Fox Business reported, and is the central issue in the Air Force's inquiry.

Any concerns about this?
Reuters article quoting USAF spokesman saying otherwise

Quote
Media reports that the U.S. Air Force is reviewing the security clearance of Elon Musk, the chief executive of automaker Tesla Inc are inaccurate, U.S. Air Force spokesperson Captain Hope Cronin said on Friday.

FAKE NEWS!!!

Sorry. I had too.

In all seriousness, Attorney General Sessions is known to hate marijuana with a burning passion. Does anyone know how much influence he would have on a reprimand-caused removal of security clearances? (my assumption is that he wouldn't have any because it's a military/intelligence matter, but he is in charge of enforcing the law)
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 08:11 am by jbenton »

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re:
« Reply #12 on: 09/09/2018 05:17 am »
This has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.

Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked.  This hasn't been debunked.
I won't debate. The story of the headline and title of this thread has been debunked. So yeah, it has. Next thread, please.

Changed the title of thread. 

"Will "Pot Smoking" by Musk compromise his security clearance"
You didn't change in your reply. And this has already been discussed in thread(s) that are now locked.

We know that smoking Marijuana can compromise a person's security clearance. 

Musk smoked Marijuana in a very Public setting. 

This is a serious discussion, if you don't want to have a serious discussion on this topic please move on.
Yeah, no, I'm not debating this topic. It's founded on a false news article, and the topic where we already discussed it was locked.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Brovane

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1285
  • United States
  • Liked: 828
  • Likes Given: 1797
Re:
« Reply #13 on: 09/09/2018 05:26 am »

The previous topic never discussed the implication that publicly smoking Marijuana can have on a person's security clearance.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 05:27 am by Brovane »
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re:
« Reply #14 on: 09/09/2018 05:35 am »

The previous topic never discussed the implication that publicly smoking Marijuana can have on a person's security clearance.
Because it was locked before it came up as it quickly spins into the political, like this one already has.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline ncb1397

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3497
  • Liked: 2310
  • Likes Given: 29
Found this:

Quote
Similarly, current use of an illegal drug, while on or off duty, by a contractor with access to classified U.S. Government information is incompatible with the terms of the contractor's security clearance.
https://www.military.com/veteran-jobs/security-clearance-jobs/security-clearances-and-drug-use.html

The previous thread was about "Elon gone wild". This is narrowly focused on Elon's security clearance and its impact on SpaceX's DoD contracts.

Drug use is one thing. Lack of understanding or following of terms of a security clearance is potentially more serious.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 05:42 am by ncb1397 »

Offline meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14158
  • N. California
  • Liked: 14046
  • Likes Given: 1392
I'd say there is certainly a valid topic here, but there isn't anywhere yet a law or regulation that say they have to do anything about it, only that they can.

The next few days will tell us if they chose to do so.

For example they might say that when viewed in context, what's shown in the video doesn't rise to a level that attracts their interest.

Or they can go full retard...

We'll see

-----
ABCD: Always Be Counting Down
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 05:55 am by meekGee »
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline NathanR

  • Member
  • Posts: 6
  • Liked: 9
  • Likes Given: 0
Full statement from USAF spokesperson via The Verge:
Quote
It’s inaccurate that there is an investigation. We’ll need time to determine the facts and the appropriate process to handle the situation.

Offline ncb1397

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3497
  • Liked: 2310
  • Likes Given: 29
I'd say there is certainly a valid topic here, but there isn't anywhere yet a law or regulation that say they have to do anything about it, only that they can.

Well, they legally have to grant security clearances in a consistent way.

Also found this, which is the justification for consideration of drug use in the National Security Adjudicative Guidelines.

Quote
24. The Concern. The illegal use of controlled substances, to include the misuse of prescription and non-prescription drugs, and the use of other substances that cause physical or mental impairment or are used in a manner inconsistent with their intended purpose can raise questions about an individual's reliability and trustworthiness, both because such behavior may lead to physical or psychological impairment and because it raises questions about a person's ability or willingness to comply with laws, rules and regulations. Controlled substance means any "controlled substance" as defined in 21 U.S.C 802. Substance misuse is the generic term adopted in this guideline to describe any of the behaviors listed above.
http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/SEAD4_20170608.pdf

It lists ways for Elon to get out of this:
Quote
(a) the behavior happened so long ago, was so infrequent, or happened under such circumstances that it is unlikely to recur or does not cast doubt on the individual's current reliability, trustworthiness, or good judgement.
http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/SEAD4_20170608.pdf

Quote
(b) the individual acknowledges his or her drug involvement and substance misuse, provides evidence of actions taken to overcome his problem, and has established a pattern of abstinence, including, but not limited to:
(1) disassociation from drug-using associates and contacts
(2) changing or avoiding the environment where drugs were used; and
(3) providing a signed statement of intent to abstain from all drug involvement and substance misuse, acknowledging that any future involvement or misuse is grounds for revocation of national security eligibility;
http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/SEAD4_20170608.pdf

So, this is probably the first and last appearance of Elon on the Joe Rogan talk show.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 06:19 am by ncb1397 »

Offline Eric Hedman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2313
  • The birthplace of the solid body electric guitar
  • Liked: 1953
  • Likes Given: 1142
So, this is probably the first and last appearance of Elon on the Joe Rogan talk show.
Let's hope so.

Online Semmel

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2178
  • Germany
  • Liked: 2433
  • Likes Given: 11916
Let's see that in context. On show, the host produced the stuff. He lights it. Elon says he does do marijuana because he doesn't like it. He did it once a long time ago. He takes one puff, doesn't look lime he is even inhaling. Than continues to say he does not like it. Does this already count? Only with ill intent is this even a story.

Offline jpo234

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2021
  • Liked: 2280
  • Likes Given: 2184
Let's see that in context. On show, the host produced the stuff. He lights it. Elon says he does do marijuana because he doesn't like it. He did it once a long time ago. He takes one puff, doesn't look lime he is even inhaling. Than continues to say he does not like it. Does this already count? Only with ill intent is this even a story.
It was stupid. There was absolutely no upside doing this.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
  • Istanbul Turkey and Santa Fe TEXAS USA
  • Liked: 588
  • Likes Given: 2095
Let's see that in context. On show, the host produced the stuff. He lights it. Elon says he does do marijuana because he doesn't like it. He did it once a long time ago. He takes one puff, doesn't look lime he is even inhaling. Than continues to say he does not like it. Does this already count? Only with ill intent is this even a story.
It was stupid. There was absolutely no upside doing this.

it was.  it was just impulsive kind of need to "be me" and if anything that is what I guess is worrying the classification people.  usually when someone has a "problem" it is hiden and the worry is blackmail.  but well this was out in the open.  :)

Let's see that in context. On show, the host produced the stuff. He lights it. Elon says he does do marijuana because he doesn't like it. He did it once a long time ago. He takes one puff, doesn't look lime he is even inhaling. Than continues to say he does not like it. Does this already count? Only with ill intent is this even a story.
It was stupid. There was absolutely no upside doing this.
Elon smoking pot is the least stupid thing in a thread where the possibility of his clearance being removed for casually taking a puff on a joint is discussed. It would be blatant bigotry if it was even seriously considered.
Failure is not only an option, it's the only way to learn.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the custody of fire" - Gustav Mahler

Offline Jimmy Murdok

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 224
  • Lausanne - Barcelona
  • Liked: 194
  • Likes Given: 202
I don't think is gonna compromise the access. Thanks to ncb1397 for providing serious feedback on the issue https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=46318.msg1854040#msg1854040.
I don't think is a joke, I'm a bit worried as is not an isolated event. I thought that the dramas of Elon Musk and his companies were left 10 years ago for biographies and movies. I like that at SpaceX looks like a more diversified team that have a public say: Gwyne is an excellent numer 2, but Tom Mueller, Hans Koenigsmann and the younger talents on the F9 launch livecasts show a company not only owned by one man but a team of motivated ones.

In Tesla (maye is because I don't follow that close) I have the feeling that all is much more about EM. All this sleeping in the factory, stress, people leaving the company, impulsive tweets... and specially the incapacity to find a good number 2. All this mess for going high in production. Is really "making sausages" where EM brings the best? Steal someone good from Toyota, Ford, GM, BMW or VW, find your Tesla equivalent of Gwyne Shotwell and put your energies in R&D. I fail to understand why he is unable to pass some of the strings and pressure of Tesla, this is not doing good to him, the e-car company neither the other projects. Is he really so unique that cannot find a good production manager?

Sorry if I'm diverging a bit off topic

 

Online Chris Bergin

Hate threads like this, but Brovane did well to change the title from the denied story title. Second post deals with that, but edited a quick line into the opening post.

1) It's now on topic as it's directly related to rockets.
2) No, this is not going to be about Elon's behavior (not inhaling and saying he didn't like it is hardly a scene out of Trainspotting FFS). We've already said that's never going to end well, so this thread is only going to be about such an issue and USAF contracts etc. (As I didn't know - but obvious to assume - drugs and USAF are not a good combination).
3) No pot jokes.

This thread will only last if it gets interesting posts about USAF contracts and such.

Only two report to mods asking for it to be closed is not enough for me to assume the community is fully against this thread.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 12:47 pm by Chris Bergin »
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14158
  • N. California
  • Liked: 14046
  • Likes Given: 1392
I'd say there is certainly a valid topic here, but there isn't anywhere yet a law or regulation that say they have to do anything about it, only that they can.

Well, they legally have to grant security clearances in a consistent way.

Also found this, which is the justification for consideration of drug use in the National Security Adjudicative Guidelines.

Quote
24. The Concern. The illegal use of controlled substances, to include the misuse of prescription and non-prescription drugs, and the use of other substances that cause physical or mental impairment or are used in a manner inconsistent with their intended purpose can raise questions about an individual's reliability and trustworthiness, both because such behavior may lead to physical or psychological impairment and because it raises questions about a person's ability or willingness to comply with laws, rules and regulations. Controlled substance means any "controlled substance" as defined in 21 U.S.C 802. Substance misuse is the generic term adopted in this guideline to describe any of the behaviors listed above.
http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/SEAD4_20170608.pdf

It lists ways for Elon to get out of this:
Quote
(a) the behavior happened so long ago, was so infrequent, or happened under such circumstances that it is unlikely to recur or does not cast doubt on the individual's current reliability, trustworthiness, or good judgement.
http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/SEAD4_20170608.pdf

Quote
(b) the individual acknowledges his or her drug involvement and substance misuse, provides evidence of actions taken to overcome his problem, and has established a pattern of abstinence, including, but not limited to:
(1) disassociation from drug-using associates and contacts
(2) changing or avoiding the environment where drugs were used; and
(3) providing a signed statement of intent to abstain from all drug involvement and substance misuse, acknowledging that any future involvement or misuse is grounds for revocation of national security eligibility;
http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/SEAD4_20170608.pdf

So, this is probably the first and last appearance of Elon on the Joe Rogan talk show.
Agreed on #1, tho it does leave some wiggle room.

#2 and #3 - thx for the research, this nails it and should do the trick. :)



-----
ABCD: Always Be Counting Down

ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Online spacenut

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5181
  • East Alabama
  • Liked: 2587
  • Likes Given: 2895
My question is IF Musk looses his security clearance, can Ms. Shotwell handle all dealings with the Air Force?  If so it wouldn't matter as she is running the company anyway.  Musk doesn't have anyone to run Tesla that he can "trust" to do what he wants.  Building a few rockets a month is a lot different than building 200,000 cars a month. 

Online edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15391
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 8566
  • Likes Given: 1356
What matters is how this could affect SpaceX.  Raising investor eyebrows is one thing.  Raising questions among potential customers - especially the U.S. Air Force - is entirely another thing that goes far beyond the security clearance issue.

 - Ed Kyle 

I swear this is the most stupid thing Musk related I've ever read... The most hypocritical and devoid of any rational basis. Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff?

I don't know if you noticed, but he also drank two glasses of whiskey, that should be sufficient reason to have him resign as CEO immediately.

Maybe you should check how much chocolate he eats too.

Oh, and fortunately the world is full of trustworthy CEOs and Air Force officials who have never tried pot in their existence. Plus I'm sure their nostrils don't know about other drugs either.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 02:11 pm by AbuSimbel »
Failure is not only an option, it's the only way to learn.
"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the custody of fire" - Gustav Mahler

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
  • Istanbul Turkey and Santa Fe TEXAS USA
  • Liked: 588
  • Likes Given: 2095
What matters is how this could affect SpaceX.  Raising investor eyebrows is one thing.  Raising questions among potential customers - especially the U.S. Air Force - is entirely another thing that goes far beyond the security clearance issue.

 - Ed Kyle

you nailed it

Offline FinalFrontier

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4490
  • Space Watcher
  • Liked: 1332
  • Likes Given: 173
What matters is how this could affect SpaceX.  Raising investor eyebrows is one thing.  Raising questions among potential customers - especially the U.S. Air Force - is entirely another thing that goes far beyond the security clearance issue.

 - Ed Kyle
The USAF does not care that Elon Musk smoked a joint on a youtube podcast.
3-30-2017: The start of a great future
"Live Long and Prosper"

Offline Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13463
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 11864
  • Likes Given: 11086
We are not going to debate the legality of marijuana. Read Chris's warning before you post.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
  • Istanbul Turkey and Santa Fe TEXAS USA
  • Liked: 588
  • Likes Given: 2095
Since we already have this thread let's address the fake news circulating regarding "tesla's stock dropping"

that is not fake news.  while the stock price HAS constantly rebounded it has in the last month dropped from near 360 to near 260.  it is near a year low, although it has been this low once before in the last calendar year. It dropped nearly 30 USD in one day 7 sept. 

a 100 dollar drop on a stock priced in this region is not trivial.

Offline jpo234

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2021
  • Liked: 2280
  • Likes Given: 2184
Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff?

This isn't out of the question. There are other countries with much stricter views and drug laws than the west. Malaysia has a mandatory death sentence for everybody in possession of more than 7oz of cannabis.

As I wrote earlier in this thread: absolutely no upside and a lot of potential downsides. Let's just hope that none materializes.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Brovane

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1285
  • United States
  • Liked: 828
  • Likes Given: 1797
I swear this is the most stupid thing Musk related I've ever read... The most hypocritical and devoid of any rational basis. Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff?

The issue is his security clearance with the USAF.  The use of any "illegal drug" in the eyes of the US Federal government, especially publically like Mr. Musk did.  Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law which is what governs security clearances.  Could result in Musk losing his security clearance if the USAF wants to make a big deal out of the issue. 
 


 

 
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Online ZachF

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1610
  • Immensely complex & high risk
  • NH, USA, Earth
  • Liked: 2604
  • Likes Given: 531
There isn't really much to add here without getting too political. I'll just say the 'outrage' over the story is a good agglomeration of many of the things about modern society that make my eyes roll.

I suspect 100% of the "complaints" are because it's a convenient scapegoat for someone they have a personal vendetta against, or are business competitors with vested interests.
artist, so take opinions expressed above with a well-rendered grain of salt...
https://www.instagram.com/artzf/

Online ZachF

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1610
  • Immensely complex & high risk
  • NH, USA, Earth
  • Liked: 2604
  • Likes Given: 531
I swear this is the most stupid thing Musk related I've ever read... The most hypocritical and devoid of any rational basis. Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff?

The issue is his security clearance with the USAF.  The use of any "illegal drug" in the eyes of the US Federal government, especially publically like Mr. Musk did.  Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law which is what governs security clearances.  Could result in Musk losing his security clearance if the USAF wants to make a big deal out of the issue. 
 


 

If the USAF makes a big deal about this, it will be because connected cronies with political ties and vested interests made it so for their own personal gain... and that will say much worse things about the state of our society than the legality or illegality of a stupid little plant.
artist, so take opinions expressed above with a well-rendered grain of salt...
https://www.instagram.com/artzf/

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
  • Istanbul Turkey and Santa Fe TEXAS USA
  • Liked: 588
  • Likes Given: 2095
I swear this is the most stupid thing Musk related I've ever read... The most hypocritical and devoid of any rational basis. Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff?

The issue is his security clearance with the USAF.  The use of any "illegal drug" in the eyes of the US Federal government, especially publically like Mr. Musk did.  Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law which is what governs security clearances.  Could result in Musk losing his security clearance if the USAF wants to make a big deal out of the issue. 
 


 

If the USAF makes a big deal about this, it will be because connected cronies with political ties and vested interests made it so for their own personal gain... and that will say much worse things about the state of our society than the legality or illegality of a stupid little plant.

clearances are not based on whims of people...(OK well at least now most of them)

I am curious though your views on something.  Lets say Person X at SpaceX who is manager of the classified programs...goes on a Radio talk show and advocates smoking Mary Jane and does it right there...

I am curious if you think that the response of SpaceX and or the US Gov would be different?

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2611
  • Liked: 500
  • Likes Given: 1096
Quote
3) No pot jokes.

I'll stay far away from this thread then (too tempting !)
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 03:41 pm by Archibald »
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

Online ZachF

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1610
  • Immensely complex & high risk
  • NH, USA, Earth
  • Liked: 2604
  • Likes Given: 531
I swear this is the most stupid thing Musk related I've ever read... The most hypocritical and devoid of any rational basis. Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff?

The issue is his security clearance with the USAF.  The use of any "illegal drug" in the eyes of the US Federal government, especially publically like Mr. Musk did.  Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law which is what governs security clearances.  Could result in Musk losing his security clearance if the USAF wants to make a big deal out of the issue. 
 


 

If the USAF makes a big deal about this, it will be because connected cronies with political ties and vested interests made it so for their own personal gain... and that will say much worse things about the state of our society than the legality or illegality of a stupid little plant.

clearances are not based on whims of people...(OK well at least now most of them)

I am curious though your views on something.  Lets say Person X at SpaceX who is manager of the classified programs...goes on a Radio talk show and advocates smoking Mary Jane and does it right there...

I am curious if you think that the response of SpaceX and or the US Gov would be different?

Fist of all, I can't really answer this without stepping outside the boundaries Chris, Lar, and others have put.

Second, Elon did not advocate smoking marijuana, he actually advocated against it, and said he does not like it.

Ultimately, if the person with the security clearance did not release confidential information, I don't really care. I know people who smoke that could hold secrets to the grave, and I know sober people you couldn't trust a surprise birthday party to.

EDIT:
I'm just going to make this my last post in this thread, this topic is dumb. So if you quote me I won't respond.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 03:56 pm by ZachF »
artist, so take opinions expressed above with a well-rendered grain of salt...
https://www.instagram.com/artzf/

Offline Newton_V

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
  • United States
  • Liked: 822
  • Likes Given: 129
Maybe topic should be "Will pot smoking compromise a security clearance".

It probably should.  For the same reason as excessive use/abuse of alcohol does, even though that's a legal substance.  You have to draw the line somewhere, and it's probably even worse that in this case is wasn't self-reporting during a security review, but somewhat blatant "disregard for the rules" posting it (letting it be aired) on the internet.
It won't make any difference to company contracts, working relationship with the USAF, etc, as he probably isn't involved at the working level anyway.  It just allowed him to sit in at top level management meetings with customers.


Online guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7438
  • Germany
  • Liked: 2332
  • Likes Given: 2891
Maybe topic should be "Will pot smoking compromise a security clearance".

It probably should.  For the same reason as excessive use/abuse of alcohol does, even though that's a legal substance.

Are you arguing a single puff of pot counts as excessive use?

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
...  Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law...
...for the record, this is disputed by some legal experts. Many do not think the Supremacy clause applies in this case. It hasn't been fully tested in the Supreme Court. It's possible it would end up being legal at the federal level, too.


This whole thing is dumb. Musk spent most of the time in this topic talking about how Marijuana is bad. It was practically an anti-pot ad. He also didn't inhale and never tested positive. And if you read the guidelines someone posted above, a one-time social use like this (which cannot be used for blackmail, since it's public) is the least problematic. The worst you could get is a stern talking to by your supervisor, but I doubt that'd even happen in this case since it's clear Musk doesn't have a pot drug abuse problem.

This whole topic is steeped in hyperbole.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 04:48 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
  • Istanbul Turkey and Santa Fe TEXAS USA
  • Liked: 588
  • Likes Given: 2095
...  Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law...
...for the record, this is disputed by some legal experts. Many do not think the Supremacy clause applies in this case. It hasn't been fully tested in the Supreme Court. It's possible it would end up being legal at the federal level, too.


This whole thing is dumb. Musk spent most of the time in this topic talking about how Marijuana is bad. It was practically an anti-pot ad. He also didn't inhale and never tested positive. And if you read the guidelines someone posted above, a one-time social use like this (which cannot be used for blackmail, since it's public) is the least problematic. The worst you could get is a stern talking to by your supervisor, but I doubt that'd even happen in this case since it's clear Musk doesn't have a pot drug abuse problem.

This whole topic is steeped in hyperbole.

oh what a fun but off topic that would be...resist resist :)

Offline Newton_V

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 842
  • United States
  • Liked: 822
  • Likes Given: 129
Maybe topic should be "Will pot smoking compromise a security clearance".

It probably should.  For the same reason as excessive use/abuse of alcohol does, even though that's a legal substance.

Are you arguing a single puff of pot counts as excessive use?

No, the excessive use was for alcohol.  The "draw the line" part was for everything else.  They don't want to deal with "just a tiny bit", just a bit of cocaine, only did heroin once, just did a tiny hit of crack.   It's easier to just say none of it is allowed.  There are more than enough people out there willing to accept these conditions and follow these rules.  You can argue to death whether it makes sense or is wrong or right.  That's besides the point.  It's too difficult to deal with alcohol, other than maybe discreet events like getting arrested, a DUI, etc.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
You haven’t read the guidelines if you don’t think there’s a big distinction for security clearance from what Musk did and habitual, secret drug abuse.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
  • Istanbul Turkey and Santa Fe TEXAS USA
  • Liked: 588
  • Likes Given: 2095
You haven’t read the guidelines if you don’t think there’s a big distinction for security clearance from what Musk did and habitual, secret drug abuse.

I know a person who self disclosed MJ use in college which was amazing since this person was at the Naval Academy aka Canoe U.  it got this person a visit from both the FBI and the "clearance authority"

this person got passed it and hold a security clearance to this day...even though this person is no longer in the government in any way or works for a contractor ....(and its not me) but I am told by this person "those were exciting times" (albeit a few years ago)

I suspect that if one of Musk employees did this on a similar venue and had a security clearance...well things would be going a different way

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
You haven’t read the guidelines if you don’t think there’s a big distinction for security clearance from what Musk did and habitual, secret drug abuse.

I know a person who self disclosed MJ use in college which was amazing since this person was at the Naval Academy aka Canoe U.  it got this person a visit from both the FBI and the "clearance authority"

this person got passed it and hold a security clearance to this day...even though this person is no longer in the government in any way or works for a contractor ....(and its not me) but I am told by this person "those were exciting times" (albeit a few years ago)

I suspect that if one of Musk employees did this on a similar venue and had a security clearance...well things would be going a different way
I sincerely doubt it’d go different. The fact that it’s legal in California DOES make a difference, as does the fact it was never secret (no blackmail possibility) and was a single non-inhaling incident.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 05:15 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14158
  • N. California
  • Liked: 14046
  • Likes Given: 1392
What matters is how this could affect SpaceX.  Raising investor eyebrows is one thing.  Raising questions among potential customers - especially the U.S. Air Force - is entirely another thing that goes far beyond the security clearance issue.

 - Ed Kyle

Yeah .... No.
There is talk about whether the AF might HAVE to revoke clearance, formally, and the likely answer is no.

There is zero talk, other than self propagating posts such as yours, on whether it'll cause anyone to lose credibility in Musk.  I mean - everyone knows already he's not a standard aerospace executive like Stephane Israel, Tory Bruno or Michael Gass...  There was no surprise there...

If OTOH one of these three would go on an interview, admit to having human emotions, talk about un-sanitized topics, and puff on a joint - yeah, some people might do a double take.

Me, I'd like to see more people who are as transparent as Musk is in leading corporate roles.  It sets a good example.



-----
ABCD: Always Be Counting Down
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 05:25 pm by meekGee »
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
  • Istanbul Turkey and Santa Fe TEXAS USA
  • Liked: 588
  • Likes Given: 2095
You haven’t read the guidelines if you don’t think there’s a big distinction for security clearance from what Musk did and habitual, secret drug abuse.

I know a person who self disclosed MJ use in college which was amazing since this person was at the Naval Academy aka Canoe U.  it got this person a visit from both the FBI and the "clearance authority"

this person got passed it and hold a security clearance to this day...even though this person is no longer in the government in any way or works for a contractor ....(and its not me) but I am told by this person "those were exciting times" (albeit a few years ago)

I suspect that if one of Musk employees did this on a similar venue and had a security clearance...well things would be going a different way
I sincerely doubt it’d go different. The fact that it’s legal in California DOES make a difference, as does the fact it was never secret (no blackmail possibility) and was a single non-inhaling incident.

the non blackmailing is wht did it for Musk.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2018 09:48 pm by Lar »

Offline AndyH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 303
  • Fill your pockets with sunflower seeds
  • St Pete, FL SV Jane Ann
  • Liked: 373
  • Likes Given: 3410
Folks here seem to be assuming that Elon actually has a security clearance and that if the status of it changes that it'll affect SpaceX.  I worked for an aerospace company that made parts for DoD projects, some of which were classified.  The CEO and founder was from S Africa and could not get a security clearance.  All it meant for day to day operations was that the boss couldn't walk into the room where the parts for classified projects were made, and couldn't walk into the engineer's office when the drawings were displayed.  As for the smoking part of this - any adverse action would be based on a drug test, not on a video clip that showed him puff on 'something'.  (I had a TS/SBI in a previous life - routine drug testing is part of the package.)

Online jjyach

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
  • Liked: 1560
  • Likes Given: 181
Elon does indeed have one, and it is very high up levelwise.  The DOD has been very vocal to us in Colorado that even though weed is legal here, people with clearances are still not allowed to use it.  There are rules and those of us   who follow them would have our clearances stripped.  Giving his his ranking and importance  I doubt they will pull it, but he and SX leadership will get a stern talking to.

Offline TripleSeven

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1145
  • Istanbul Turkey and Santa Fe TEXAS USA
  • Liked: 588
  • Likes Given: 2095
Elon does indeed have one, and it is very high up levelwise.  The DOD has been very vocal to us in Colorado that even though weed is legal here, people with clearances are still not allowed to use it.  There are rules and those of us   who follow them would have our clearances stripped.  Giving his his ranking and importance  I doubt they will pull it, but he and SX leadership will get a stern talking to.
;

it has to be very high up...he knows about Zuma...

Online jjyach

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
  • Liked: 1560
  • Likes Given: 181
Admin staff (among many others) at every launch provider who launches classified are read in to anything they are launching as they have to know.

Online Chris Bergin

Yeah, I'm done with this now. Lots of report to mods coming in now and posts like "Oooh, this but let's not speculate" followed immediately by a speculation post that is beyond wild, nothing to do with rockets or the USAF.

Gave it a chance, against my better judgment. Only locking it after a trim.
Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0