Musk's SpaceX provides services for the Air Force, with multiple high-value contracts. Marijuana use is prohibited for someone with a government security clearance, Fox Business reported, and is the central issue in the Air Force's inquiry.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/air-force-is-looking-into-elon-musks-pot-smoking-source.htmlQuoteMusk's SpaceX provides services for the Air Force, with multiple high-value contracts. Marijuana use is prohibited for someone with a government security clearance, Fox Business reported, and is the central issue in the Air Force's inquiry.Any concerns about this?
Media reports that the U.S. Air Force is reviewing the security clearance of Elon Musk, the chief executive of automaker Tesla Inc are inaccurate, U.S. Air Force spokesperson Captain Hope Cronin said on Friday.
This has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 04:09 amThis has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked. This hasn't been debunked.
Quote from: Brovane on 09/09/2018 04:15 amQuote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 04:09 amThis has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked. This hasn't been debunked. I won't debate. The story of the headline and title of this thread has been debunked. So yeah, it has. Next thread, please.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 04:21 amQuote from: Brovane on 09/09/2018 04:15 amQuote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 04:09 amThis has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked. This hasn't been debunked. I won't debate. The story of the headline and title of this thread has been debunked. So yeah, it has. Next thread, please.Changed the title of thread. "Will "Pot Smoking" by Musk compromise his security clearance"
Quote from: Brovane on 09/09/2018 04:41 amQuote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 04:21 amQuote from: Brovane on 09/09/2018 04:15 amQuote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 04:09 amThis has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked. This hasn't been debunked. I won't debate. The story of the headline and title of this thread has been debunked. So yeah, it has. Next thread, please.Changed the title of thread. "Will "Pot Smoking" by Musk compromise his security clearance" You didn't change in your reply. And this has already been discussed in thread(s) that are now locked.
Quote from: Brovane on 09/09/2018 03:22 amhttps://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/07/air-force-is-looking-into-elon-musks-pot-smoking-source.htmlQuoteMusk's SpaceX provides services for the Air Force, with multiple high-value contracts. Marijuana use is prohibited for someone with a government security clearance, Fox Business reported, and is the central issue in the Air Force's inquiry.Any concerns about this? Reuters article quoting USAF spokesman saying otherwise
Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 04:43 amQuote from: Brovane on 09/09/2018 04:41 amQuote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 04:21 amQuote from: Brovane on 09/09/2018 04:15 amQuote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 04:09 amThis has already been discussed on locked/deleted threads. This story has been debunked on the first reply, moving on.Smoking "Marijuana" can get your security clearance revoked. This hasn't been debunked. I won't debate. The story of the headline and title of this thread has been debunked. So yeah, it has. Next thread, please.Changed the title of thread. "Will "Pot Smoking" by Musk compromise his security clearance" You didn't change in your reply. And this has already been discussed in thread(s) that are now locked.We know that smoking Marijuana can compromise a person's security clearance. Musk smoked Marijuana in a very Public setting. This is a serious discussion, if you don't want to have a serious discussion on this topic please move on.
The previous topic never discussed the implication that publicly smoking Marijuana can have on a person's security clearance.
Similarly, current use of an illegal drug, while on or off duty, by a contractor with access to classified U.S. Government information is incompatible with the terms of the contractor's security clearance.
It’s inaccurate that there is an investigation. We’ll need time to determine the facts and the appropriate process to handle the situation.
I'd say there is certainly a valid topic here, but there isn't anywhere yet a law or regulation that say they have to do anything about it, only that they can.
24. The Concern. The illegal use of controlled substances, to include the misuse of prescription and non-prescription drugs, and the use of other substances that cause physical or mental impairment or are used in a manner inconsistent with their intended purpose can raise questions about an individual's reliability and trustworthiness, both because such behavior may lead to physical or psychological impairment and because it raises questions about a person's ability or willingness to comply with laws, rules and regulations. Controlled substance means any "controlled substance" as defined in 21 U.S.C 802. Substance misuse is the generic term adopted in this guideline to describe any of the behaviors listed above.
(a) the behavior happened so long ago, was so infrequent, or happened under such circumstances that it is unlikely to recur or does not cast doubt on the individual's current reliability, trustworthiness, or good judgement.
(b) the individual acknowledges his or her drug involvement and substance misuse, provides evidence of actions taken to overcome his problem, and has established a pattern of abstinence, including, but not limited to:(1) disassociation from drug-using associates and contacts(2) changing or avoiding the environment where drugs were used; and(3) providing a signed statement of intent to abstain from all drug involvement and substance misuse, acknowledging that any future involvement or misuse is grounds for revocation of national security eligibility;
So, this is probably the first and last appearance of Elon on the Joe Rogan talk show.
Let's see that in context. On show, the host produced the stuff. He lights it. Elon says he does do marijuana because he doesn't like it. He did it once a long time ago. He takes one puff, doesn't look lime he is even inhaling. Than continues to say he does not like it. Does this already count? Only with ill intent is this even a story.
Quote from: Semmel on 09/09/2018 07:57 amLet's see that in context. On show, the host produced the stuff. He lights it. Elon says he does do marijuana because he doesn't like it. He did it once a long time ago. He takes one puff, doesn't look lime he is even inhaling. Than continues to say he does not like it. Does this already count? Only with ill intent is this even a story.It was stupid. There was absolutely no upside doing this.
Quote from: meekGee on 09/09/2018 05:51 amI'd say there is certainly a valid topic here, but there isn't anywhere yet a law or regulation that say they have to do anything about it, only that they can.Well, they legally have to grant security clearances in a consistent way. Also found this, which is the justification for consideration of drug use in the National Security Adjudicative Guidelines.Quote24. The Concern. The illegal use of controlled substances, to include the misuse of prescription and non-prescription drugs, and the use of other substances that cause physical or mental impairment or are used in a manner inconsistent with their intended purpose can raise questions about an individual's reliability and trustworthiness, both because such behavior may lead to physical or psychological impairment and because it raises questions about a person's ability or willingness to comply with laws, rules and regulations. Controlled substance means any "controlled substance" as defined in 21 U.S.C 802. Substance misuse is the generic term adopted in this guideline to describe any of the behaviors listed above.http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/SEAD4_20170608.pdfIt lists ways for Elon to get out of this:Quote(a) the behavior happened so long ago, was so infrequent, or happened under such circumstances that it is unlikely to recur or does not cast doubt on the individual's current reliability, trustworthiness, or good judgement.http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/SEAD4_20170608.pdfQuote(b) the individual acknowledges his or her drug involvement and substance misuse, provides evidence of actions taken to overcome his problem, and has established a pattern of abstinence, including, but not limited to:(1) disassociation from drug-using associates and contacts(2) changing or avoiding the environment where drugs were used; and(3) providing a signed statement of intent to abstain from all drug involvement and substance misuse, acknowledging that any future involvement or misuse is grounds for revocation of national security eligibility;http://ogc.osd.mil/doha/SEAD4_20170608.pdfSo, this is probably the first and last appearance of Elon on the Joe Rogan talk show.
What matters is how this could affect SpaceX. Raising investor eyebrows is one thing. Raising questions among potential customers - especially the U.S. Air Force - is entirely another thing that goes far beyond the security clearance issue. - Ed Kyle
Since we already have this thread let's address the fake news circulating regarding "tesla's stock dropping"
Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff?
I swear this is the most stupid thing Musk related I've ever read... The most hypocritical and devoid of any rational basis. Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff?
Quote from: AbuSimbel on 09/09/2018 02:07 pmI swear this is the most stupid thing Musk related I've ever read... The most hypocritical and devoid of any rational basis. Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff? The issue is his security clearance with the USAF. The use of any "illegal drug" in the eyes of the US Federal government, especially publically like Mr. Musk did. Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law which is what governs security clearances. Could result in Musk losing his security clearance if the USAF wants to make a big deal out of the issue.
Quote from: Brovane on 09/09/2018 03:22 pmQuote from: AbuSimbel on 09/09/2018 02:07 pmI swear this is the most stupid thing Musk related I've ever read... The most hypocritical and devoid of any rational basis. Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff? The issue is his security clearance with the USAF. The use of any "illegal drug" in the eyes of the US Federal government, especially publically like Mr. Musk did. Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law which is what governs security clearances. Could result in Musk losing his security clearance if the USAF wants to make a big deal out of the issue. If the USAF makes a big deal about this, it will be because connected cronies with political ties and vested interests made it so for their own personal gain... and that will say much worse things about the state of our society than the legality or illegality of a stupid little plant.
3) No pot jokes.
Quote from: ZachF on 09/09/2018 03:31 pmQuote from: Brovane on 09/09/2018 03:22 pmQuote from: AbuSimbel on 09/09/2018 02:07 pmI swear this is the most stupid thing Musk related I've ever read... The most hypocritical and devoid of any rational basis. Are you seriously talking about SapceX losing contracts or customers' faith because Elon Musk was offered a joint -LEGALLY- on a podcast, in his free time and took a single puff? The issue is his security clearance with the USAF. The use of any "illegal drug" in the eyes of the US Federal government, especially publically like Mr. Musk did. Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law which is what governs security clearances. Could result in Musk losing his security clearance if the USAF wants to make a big deal out of the issue. If the USAF makes a big deal about this, it will be because connected cronies with political ties and vested interests made it so for their own personal gain... and that will say much worse things about the state of our society than the legality or illegality of a stupid little plant.clearances are not based on whims of people...(OK well at least now most of them)I am curious though your views on something. Lets say Person X at SpaceX who is manager of the classified programs...goes on a Radio talk show and advocates smoking Mary Jane and does it right there...I am curious if you think that the response of SpaceX and or the US Gov would be different?
Maybe topic should be "Will pot smoking compromise a security clearance".It probably should. For the same reason as excessive use/abuse of alcohol does, even though that's a legal substance.
... Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law...
Quote from: Brovane on 09/09/2018 03:22 pm... Regardless of state laws, Marijuana is still illegal on Federal law......for the record, this is disputed by some legal experts. Many do not think the Supremacy clause applies in this case. It hasn't been fully tested in the Supreme Court. It's possible it would end up being legal at the federal level, too.This whole thing is dumb. Musk spent most of the time in this topic talking about how Marijuana is bad. It was practically an anti-pot ad. He also didn't inhale and never tested positive. And if you read the guidelines someone posted above, a one-time social use like this (which cannot be used for blackmail, since it's public) is the least problematic. The worst you could get is a stern talking to by your supervisor, but I doubt that'd even happen in this case since it's clear Musk doesn't have a pot drug abuse problem.This whole topic is steeped in hyperbole.
Quote from: Newton_V on 09/09/2018 04:27 pmMaybe topic should be "Will pot smoking compromise a security clearance".It probably should. For the same reason as excessive use/abuse of alcohol does, even though that's a legal substance. Are you arguing a single puff of pot counts as excessive use?
You haven’t read the guidelines if you don’t think there’s a big distinction for security clearance from what Musk did and habitual, secret drug abuse.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 05:05 pmYou haven’t read the guidelines if you don’t think there’s a big distinction for security clearance from what Musk did and habitual, secret drug abuse.I know a person who self disclosed MJ use in college which was amazing since this person was at the Naval Academy aka Canoe U. it got this person a visit from both the FBI and the "clearance authority"this person got passed it and hold a security clearance to this day...even though this person is no longer in the government in any way or works for a contractor ....(and its not me) but I am told by this person "those were exciting times" (albeit a few years ago) I suspect that if one of Musk employees did this on a similar venue and had a security clearance...well things would be going a different way
Quote from: TripleSeven on 09/09/2018 05:12 pmQuote from: Robotbeat on 09/09/2018 05:05 pmYou haven’t read the guidelines if you don’t think there’s a big distinction for security clearance from what Musk did and habitual, secret drug abuse.I know a person who self disclosed MJ use in college which was amazing since this person was at the Naval Academy aka Canoe U. it got this person a visit from both the FBI and the "clearance authority"this person got passed it and hold a security clearance to this day...even though this person is no longer in the government in any way or works for a contractor ....(and its not me) but I am told by this person "those were exciting times" (albeit a few years ago) I suspect that if one of Musk employees did this on a similar venue and had a security clearance...well things would be going a different wayI sincerely doubt it’d go different. The fact that it’s legal in California DOES make a difference, as does the fact it was never secret (no blackmail possibility) and was a single non-inhaling incident.
Elon does indeed have one, and it is very high up levelwise. The DOD has been very vocal to us in Colorado that even though weed is legal here, people with clearances are still not allowed to use it. There are rules and those of us who follow them would have our clearances stripped. Giving his his ranking and importance I doubt they will pull it, but he and SX leadership will get a stern talking to.