Author Topic: General SETI Thread  (Read 7876 times)

Offline Star One

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Re: General SETI Thread
« Reply #60 on: 11/16/2017 07:49 PM »

Offline Dao Angkan

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Re: General SETI Thread
« Reply #61 on: 11/16/2017 07:57 PM »
Is it ethical to transmit powerful radio signals?

http://rockethics.psu.edu/everyday-ethics/is-it-ethical-to-transmit-powerful-radio-signals-1

I'll answer that, any civilisation capable of being a threat to us should already know that we're here and have already come and sterilised the planet. As for the question of who on Earth should have the responsibility of contacting them, by the time that we get a reply back, then the people (and governments, countries etc) who originally sent the message will be long gone.
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 08:06 PM by Dao Angkan »

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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Re: General SETI Thread
« Reply #62 on: 11/16/2017 09:05 PM »
Is it ethical to transmit powerful radio signals?

http://rockethics.psu.edu/everyday-ethics/is-it-ethical-to-transmit-powerful-radio-signals-1

I'll answer that, any civilisation capable of being a threat to us should already know that we're here and have already come and sterilised the planet. As for the question of who on Earth should have the responsibility of contacting them, by the time that we get a reply back, then the people (and governments, countries etc) who originally sent the message will be long gone.
I don't agree with that sentiment. Any civilization that has made it far enough along it's development to not have wiped itself out of existence is one that has matured enough to have developed a set of mature morality and ethical codes. Therefore I highly doubt it would sterilize another sentient species. Quarantined on the other hand...
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline Dao Angkan

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Re: General SETI Thread
« Reply #63 on: 11/16/2017 09:25 PM »
I should reword that as "who might consider us as a threat". Still, they may well have developed moral and ethical codes, ones that say that allowing any other species to evolve far enough to potentially threaten their existence would be morally and ethically wrong (to their own species). In which case, the logical course of action would be to sterilise any world which could potentially evolve threatening species.

Edit: I'll note our species eradication of infectious diseases as an example of a species considering it moral and ethical to eradicate potential threats to themselves.

If you're only sterilising cyanobacteria, is it unethical?
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 09:43 PM by Dao Angkan »

Offline Johnnyhinbos

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General SETI Thread
« Reply #64 on: 11/16/2017 10:59 PM »
Iíll bite - as I work around and with aquatic species for a living. We catch live crabs in Boston Harbor as feedstock for exhibit animals. However we arenít allowed to put these crabs in exhibit to feed to large puffers etc because our Animal Care and Use Committee forbids it. Instead we have to euthanize the crabs in a two phase process that is pain free and humane to the crab. And before people say crabs canít feel pain or have the brain capacity for complex emotions - wrong (summoning the inner Jim).

Recent studies show inverts such as crabs have opioid receptors which strongly suggests sensation of pain. This is as opposed to nociception. Crabs have also amazingly shown the ability to have emotions. (I can quote scientific papers on this subject if desired).

Point being? Even us lowly developed Homo sapien have evolved to learn right from wrong, even when it involves a completely alien species as compared to our own.

Just ask any scientist involved with planetary protection...
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 11:06 PM by Johnnyhinbos »
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: General SETI Thread
« Reply #65 on: 11/17/2017 12:06 AM »
I watched that last week. If someone pays you to watch that movie, you're being ripped off.

What?  I thought it was one of the best and most thought provoking SF films for many years.
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Why Weíll Have Evidence of AliensóIf They ExistóBy 2035
« Reply #66 on: 11/17/2017 12:09 AM »
What Happens If China Makes First Contact?

As America has turned away from searching for extraterrestrial intelligence, China has built the worldís largest radio dish for precisely that purpose.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/what-happens-if-china-makes-first-contact/544131/

See Three Body Problem for an excellent perspective by a Chinese novel about this.  Probably the best SF novel I have read in the past 12 months.  Perhaps longer.
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline Star One

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Re: General SETI Thread
« Reply #67 on: 11/17/2017 07:12 PM »
Phoning E.T.: Message Sent to Nearby Planet That Could Host Life

Quote
Last month, scientists and artists beamed a message to GJ 273, a red dwarf also known as Luyten's star that lies 12.36 light-years from Earth, project team members revealed today (Nov. 16). Luyten's star hosts two known planets, one of which, GJ 273b, may be capable of supporting life as we know it.

Though the message was designed to provoke a response from the hypothetical denizens of GJ 273b, the main goal in sending the communication involved laying a foundation for the future, said team member Douglas Vakoch, president of METI (Messaging Extraterrestrial Intelligence) International, a San Francisco-based nonprofit. [13 Ways to Hunt Intelligent Aliens]

https://amp.space.com/38803-meti-signal-beamed-habitable-alien-planet.html

Online hop

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Re: General SETI Thread
« Reply #68 on: 11/17/2017 09:00 PM »
I should reword that as "who might consider us as a threat".
Yeah, this has always been my objection to the paranoia about transmitting signals.

It's hard to imagine a civilization that has the technological capability and motivation to come wipe us out but not passively detect the fact that Earth harbors life.

We would have a good chance of detecting biosignatures around nearby stars with current technology if we put serious budget behind it. We are nowhere close to being able to reach other star systems, let alone sterilizing whole planets when we get there.

Any civilization that can send substantial payloads between star systems isn't going to have trouble building, say 100 meter space telescopes.

Offline Dao Angkan

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Re: General SETI Thread
« Reply #69 on: 11/17/2017 09:07 PM »
Iíll bite - as I work around and with aquatic species for a living. We catch live crabs in Boston Harbor as feedstock for exhibit animals. However we arenít allowed to put these crabs in exhibit to feed to large puffers etc because our Animal Care and Use Committee forbids it. Instead we have to euthanize the crabs in a two phase process that is pain free and humane to the crab. And before people say crabs canít feel pain or have the brain capacity for complex emotions - wrong (summoning the inner Jim).

Recent studies show inverts such as crabs have opioid receptors which strongly suggests sensation of pain. This is as opposed to nociception. Crabs have also amazingly shown the ability to have emotions. (I can quote scientific papers on this subject if desired).

Point being? Even us lowly developed Homo sapien have evolved to learn right from wrong, even when it involves a completely alien species as compared to our own.

Just ask any scientist involved with planetary protection...

Catching wild animals in order to kill them and feed them to other captured animals which are then displayed as an exhibit for a more intelligent species to observe only shows that what crabs might consider right and wrong is quite a bit different than what people "who work around and with aquatic species for a living" consider right and wrong, especially when they consider their "feedstock" to have emotions.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2017 09:24 PM by Dao Angkan »

Offline missinglink

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Re: General SETI Thread
« Reply #70 on: 11/17/2017 09:34 PM »
by the time that we get a reply back, then the people (and governments, countries etc) who originally sent the message will be long gone.
The best way to eliminate the wait time for a reply to arrive is to send yourself with your first message. Encode your entire genome and phenome plus your memories up to today. Include instructions for building you from the data. Make persuasive case that you are harmless and could not hurt a fly.

Offline Dao Angkan

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Re: General SETI Thread
« Reply #71 on: 11/18/2017 10:38 PM »
by the time that we get a reply back, then the people (and governments, countries etc) who originally sent the message will be long gone.
The best way to eliminate the wait time for a reply to arrive is to send yourself with your first message. Encode your entire genome and phenome plus your memories up to today. Include instructions for building you from the data. Make persuasive case that you are harmless and could not hurt a fly.

It's an interesting proposition, we'd still have to wait for a reply, but the "clone" could converse rather than waiting for a reply from Earth after every correspondence. Maybe an easier way would be to just send an AI? The AI discusses matters that humans are interested in and sends it back to Earth, whilst sharing allowed information with the aliens immediately.

Edit: This could be a basis for inter-stellar trade. The AI could receive data from Earth, such as scientific discoveries, or even something as mundane as the latest soap opera. The AI then trades that data for data that might have value on Earth (scientific discoveries / soaps etc).
« Last Edit: 11/18/2017 10:46 PM by Dao Angkan »

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