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« on: 07/16/2007 03:37 AM » |
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kraisee
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« Reply #1 on: 07/16/2007 03:40 AM » |
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With all the other changes occurring right now, I think they are beginning to give up on the Lunar aspects of the new program. It's just a feeling I have right now, but it's a growing one which leaves me troubled.
Ross.
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marsavian
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« Reply #2 on: 07/16/2007 03:51 AM » |
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Then they will go to plan B for lunar missions which is a 2 Ares V launch (CEV/LSAM & EDS) providing 110+130 = 240 mT payload with only one upper stage used (EDS). Direct can't match that ;-).
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Pete at Edwards
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« Reply #3 on: 07/16/2007 04:04 AM » |
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This is becoming a striaght up Shuttle replacement to the ISS.
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marsavian
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« Reply #4 on: 07/16/2007 04:06 AM » |
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Sure looking that way as well as an Ares V engine testbed of course.
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TrueBlueWitt
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« Reply #5 on: 07/16/2007 04:14 AM » |
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Does anybody high enough up at NASA have enough marbles to convince the Emperor that Ares-I(at least in 5-seg form) has no clothes?
The American tax payers are being sold a bill-of-goods(again). How much of the original "Vision" for constellation remains? This is downright depressing, I agree with Ross, I see the end of the Lunar and Mars vision rapidly approaching.
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ryan mccabe
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« Reply #6 on: 07/16/2007 04:24 AM » |
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marsavian - 15/7/2007 10:51 PM
Then they will go to plan B for lunar missions which is a 2 Ares V launch (CEV/LSAM & EDS) providing 110+130 = 240 mT payload with only one upper stage used (EDS). Assuming we can afford to develop the Ares V and still fly it....
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marsavian
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« Reply #7 on: 07/16/2007 04:31 AM » |
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Why not, all the engines would have been developed for it by then. That CLV Ares V would be quite neat not relying on an upper stage and having the LSAM as a barrier between the CEV and ET. It would also mean really meaty lunar missions with 50% more payload than currently envisaged.
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Rob in KC
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« Reply #8 on: 07/16/2007 04:34 AM » |
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Anyone find it amusing/depressing that after Shuttle we go to throwing hundreds of millions at the Russians for ISS access via Soyuz, then hopefully have a capsule that will take over the role (at X billions), with less capabilty of Shuttle (no cargo) which can just about travel to a place that will be dead a few years later?
Meanwhile, someone like Dreamchaser/Atlas are going to spend less than will be spent on hiring the Russians to create a crew transport to the ISS, after ESAS said crew safety and blackzone numbers were unacceptable (both shown to be incorrect from actual Atlas documentation on L2).
Sorry, I'm not an engineer and that's why I've not said much on a site with a forum full of engineers, but having heard them, especially speaking technically on L2, I'm left wondering what the f--- are we doing!
Someone at Congress has got to see that this is all messed up, messed up from the second we starting throwing nearly a billion at the Russians, losing our domestic access to space. God help us if the Russians turn on us, which is always possible! Senator Nelson said he wasn't happy, but nothing came of it.
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bad_astra
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« Reply #9 on: 07/16/2007 04:42 AM » |
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If NASA wants to circumvent the POTUS and build nothing more then a ISS Taxi, why can't they just build a Big Gemini, stick it top of whatever job creating rocket they want and call THAT Orion.
"We just lost the moon"
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Jim
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« Reply #10 on: 07/16/2007 04:58 AM » |
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TrueBlueWitt - 15/7/2007 12:14 AM
Does anybody high enough up at NASA have enough marbles to convince the Emperor that Ares-I(at least in 5-seg form) has no clothes?
. The emperor is resigning in Oct
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Jorge
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« Reply #11 on: 07/16/2007 05:07 AM » |
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Jim - 15/7/2007 11:58 PM
TrueBlueWitt - 15/7/2007 12:14 AM
Does anybody high enough up at NASA have enough marbles to convince the Emperor that Ares-I(at least in 5-seg form) has no clothes?
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The emperor is resigning in Oct We'll see. Griffin is just as wedded to this architecture as Horowitz was. Or are you saying that Griffin is also resigning in October?
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Paul Howard
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« Reply #12 on: 07/16/2007 05:16 AM » |
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marsavian - 15/7/2007 10:51 PM
Then they will go to plan B for lunar missions which is a 2 Ares V launch (CEV/LSAM & EDS) providing 110+130 = 240 mT payload with only one upper stage used (EDS). Direct can't match that ;-). Man rate Ares V? I don't think that will ever be an option!
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Launch Fan
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« Reply #13 on: 07/16/2007 05:31 AM » |
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It's been looked at. There's already a crew escape option reference in Ares V documention notes on L2. Nothing more, but Ares V is a long way off. Still, Ares V for the Orion seems like overkill to me and the gap between Shuttle and Orion would likely grow even more = bad.
OR, they could look at Orion/Ares I for ISS, with enough time for Ares V for moon Orion (guessing).
Then there's the problem with money.
Perfect scenario I'd say from what I've read (I'm not an engineer!) is Shuttle, to Atlas HR for ISS, to Ares V for moon. That could be done with the money I'd assume, less gap.
Would piss of ATK though, but I think a lot of this is aimed at ATK and also keeping some level of KSC in work, but we'd heading the wrong way if Ares is not going to do the job it was claimed and we keep going backwards like this.
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Jim
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« Reply #14 on: 07/16/2007 05:35 AM » |
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Paul Howard - 16/7/2007 1:16 AM
marsavian - 15/7/2007 10:51 PM
Then they will go to plan B for lunar missions which is a 2 Ares V launch (CEV/LSAM & EDS) providing 110+130 = 240 mT payload with only one upper stage used (EDS). Direct can't match that ;-).
Man rate Ares V? I don't think that will ever be an option! It is a requirement
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