Saturn V 500F question

[gordo]

I was watching the excellent Mighty Saturns DVD today and noted that he 50F was de-stacked in 1966, with it being split up and section used for other purposes ahead of Pad B Checkout.  The first stage was put in storage

So 2 questions:

Was it ever re-stacked in '67 or '68 for Pad B check out?

What happened to the first stage, on Wiki its listed as location un-known

[dwmzmm]

I thought the SIC of the 500F model was on display at KSC.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I remember reading somewhere a while back...

[max isp]

The S-IC-F was destacked on 21 October 1966. The stage was then shipped to Michoud aboard the barge Poseidon on 10 October 1966. After some testing it was shipped on to Marshall on the Poseidon on 29 September 1969. That was the last anyone heard of it.

Alan.

[dwmzmm]

I checked one source a while ago and learned the S-IC-F was scrapped (where, I wouldn't know)...

[edkyle99]

gordo - 19/1/2007  6:14 PM

I was watching the excellent Mighty Saturns DVD today and noted that he 50F was de-stacked in 1966, with it being split up and section used for other purposes ahead of Pad B Checkout.  The first stage was put in storage

So 2 questions:

Was it ever re-stacked in '67 or '68 for Pad B check out?

What happened to the first stage, on Wiki its listed as location un-known

S-1C-F was returned to Marshall Space Flight Center after the facilities testing at KSC was completed.  It was reportedly "stored on lot" for a time, perhaps for several years, before being scrapped.

The second stage had a better fate.  It was reassigned for use as a dynamic test stage at Marshall after the first "S-2-S/D" was destroyed in an accident.  S-2-F/D served as part of the SA-500-D vehicle in the Dynamic Test Stand at MSFC during early 1967.  It is now displayed as part of the dynamic test vehicle at the US. Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville.    

S-IVB-F is a bit of a mystery to me.  It served double duty, first for facilities testing as a Saturn IB stage at both LC34 and LC37B at Cape Kennedy (Canaveral) in 1965 and as part of the SA-500F stack at KSC LC39 in late 1965 to 1966.  There is a chance that it may have been the one that was stored in a boneyard at KSC for a number of years before finally being scrapped during the late 1980s or early 1990s.  I remember seeing a derelict S-IVB stage at KSC in 1986.  This S-IVB had reportedly been used to test Skylab mods.

 - Ed Kyle

[gordo]

The KSC one is made up of S-IC-T.  Which I suspect was a more operational stage than the S-IC-F ? The S-IVB-F is also AWOL.

Going back to one of my original questions, anyone know if 500F was used for PadB check out was was the Apollo 10 vehicle used?  That was the only Saturn V launch from 39B, it then  did the 4 Milk-stool launches.

[gordo]

I'm going to correct myself here and say that the S-IVB-F was used as the Skylab dynamic test article, then records show it went to KSC in 1974 to make up that Saturn V, but other records say that the S-IVB on that is S-IVB-514.    How do you lose a booster

[edkyle99]

gordo - 22/1/2007  6:09 PM

The KSC one is made up of S-IC-T.  Which I suspect was a more operational stage than the S-IC-F ? The S-IVB-F is also AWOL.

Right.  S-1C-T was the "All systems" test stage, also known as the "T-Bird". It was built at and by MSFC, beginning in 1963 (making it the first "real" S-IC stage).   The stage was completed in early 1965 and fitted with five F-1 engines for use in numerous static propulsion tests, first at MSFC and later at Mississippi Test Facility (today's Stennis).

S-1C-F was a facilities test stage fitted with one dummy F-1 engine and four F-1 mass simulators.

There were also S-1C-S, a structural test stage without engines, and S-1C-D, the dynamic test stage.  S-1C-S was also scrapped.

I did a series of web pages on Saturn launch vehicle history a few years ago.  See:  http://www.geocities.com/launchreport/satstg5.html

Going back to one of my original questions, anyone know if 500F was used for PadB check out was was the Apollo 10 vehicle used?  That was the only Saturn V launch from 39B, it then  did the 4 Milk-stool launches.

I don't have any record of SA-500F being at 39B.  Pad B was completed in November 1966, one month after SA-500F was destacked after its original use at Pad A.  Remember that the launch vehicle interfaced with the mobile launchers.  The launch pad itself was little more than an exhaust duct, some propellant lines, and some cable connections.  Once the engineering effort at Pad A with SA-500F had proved out the basics, Pad B could be tested without a Saturn V standing atop it.  There was a Moon Race on, after all!

 - Ed Kyle

[space_bass]

That is a good question.  Even Alan Lawrie, author of "Saturn" only states: "On 29 September 1969 Boeing delivered S-IC-F stage to MSFC.  The stage traveled from Michoud aboard the covered barge Poseidon."  That was the last entry for that particular stage.  It must have been scrapped.

[James (Lockheed)]

I'm at MSFC for a meeting. I will ask around and if its still here will take a picture at lunch if its closeby and accessable.

[James (Lockheed)]

Sorry guys. Word is it was scrapped "to make room".

[gordo]

There was near enough a 4th full Saturn V worth of test pieces scrapped.

Anyone have details on what was found when they restored the KSC one to find out of the 3rd stage was indeed from the 500F/Skylab dynamic test?

I think it bad that the KSC exhibit its dressed as S-IC-6.   That juts as bad as deciding to rename Enterprise as Columbia

[Stowbridge]

Shame about the scrapping.

[edkyle99]

gordo - 25/1/2007  4:06 PM

There was near enough a 4th full Saturn V worth of test pieces scrapped.

Anyone have details on what was found when they restored the KSC one to find out of the 3rd stage was indeed from the 500F/Skylab dynamic test?

I remember reading that Smithsonian investigators were surprised to discover that the KSC Saturn V had (and still has) S-IVB-514 rather than S-IVB-500F.  

The SA-500F Apollo command module and spacecraft launch adapter survived and were part of the SA-209 Saturn IB displayed at the KSC Visitors Center.  I seem to recall that part or all of these components corroded so badly that they had to be replaced by mockups a few years ago.

 - Ed Kyle

[SimonShuttle]

Why would they scrap it? No takers back then to look after it? Was it a complete vehicle, or just some stage?