Author Topic: Space industry takes prominent role in Trumpís national security strategy  (Read 4543 times)

Offline Star One

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I donít think thereís anything that surprising in all of this considering the administrationís past statements in the area. Though we havenít seen this kind of language used before in terms of being combined with commercial space and national security.

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The Trump administration is elevating the role of the privately funded space industry in advancing the nationís interests as competitors like Russia and China seek to challenge the United States and its free rein in space.

In the 2017 National Security Strategy released Dec. 18, the president commits the U.S. government to partnering with private industry to explore space and defend U.S. assets there. The administration also promises to help defend private space systems from hostile attacks.

The strategy makes the promotion of space commerce a national security priority. In that vein, the administration intends to overhaul industry regulations to motivate companies to invest and innovate. ďThe United States will simplify and update regulations for commercial space activity to strengthen competitiveness,Ē says the document.

http://spacenews.com/space-industry-takes-prominent-role-in-trumps-national-security-strategy/
« Last Edit: 12/18/2017 08:06 PM by Star One »

Offline AncientU

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This is clearly the direction USAF think tanks, the National Space Council including the VP, and the Administrator nominee are all heading.  Walking the walk is harder than talking the talk.
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline Star One

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This is clearly the direction USAF think tanks, the National Space Council including the VP, and the Administrator nominee are all heading.  Walking the walk is harder than talking the talk.

Well the language used could be summed up under the term ďthatís fighting talkĒ.

Offline AncientU

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This is clearly the direction USAF think tanks, the National Space Council including the VP, and the Administrator nominee are all heading.  Walking the walk is harder than talking the talk.

Well the language used could be summed up under the term “that’s fighting talk”.

Doesn't have to be read that way, but certainly can and will be by the military might oriented opposition.  (I don't think that is a reason to back off -- after all, these are the parties that are doing a-sat demos, etc.)

If this program gains any traction -- it's just talk now and likely will remain so -- it could create a window of vulnerability before headway is made that 'captures' any valuable 'high ground.'
« Last Edit: 12/18/2017 10:44 PM by AncientU »
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline Coastal Ron

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I donít think thereís anything that surprising in all of this considering the administrationís past statements in the area. Though we havenít seen this kind of language used before in terms of being combined with commercial space and national security.

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The administration also promises to help defend private space systems from hostile attacks.

Aren't we already paying taxes to do that?

And how is that different than the status quo today?
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Rocket Science

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It's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Offline Star One

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It's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...

What justification do you have for that statement?

Offline Lar

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It's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...

What justification do you have for that statement?

It is his or her opinion. You don't have to agree with it.  However, I think many in the US that have personal experience with our system might well agree, based on how things have went in the past, that it's a likely outcome..
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Star One

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It's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...

What justification do you have for that statement?

It is his or her opinion. You don't have to agree with it.  However, I think many in the US that have personal experience with our system might well agree, based on how things have went in the past, that it's a likely outcome..

Poor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesnít guarantee a future one.

Offline Lar

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Poor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesnít guarantee a future one.

Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Star One

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Poor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesnít guarantee a future one.

Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.

Iíd argue that the discontinuity this time is so called new space. No longer do the old boys have the playing field to themselves. Iíd certainly like to see them giving a fair chance.

Offline Lar

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Poor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesnít guarantee a future one.

Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.

Iíd argue that the discontinuity this time is so called new space. No longer do the old boys have the playing field to themselves. Iíd certainly like to see them giving a fair chance.
I agree that it COULD be a discontinuity but there are people actively campaigning (where it matters, on K street and in the waiting rooms of Congress) to make it not be so, to continue with the high cost, high pork approach.  They are not friends of NewSpace.

I think the best hope is that NewSpace just goes off and does things... things so astonishingly broad, and cheap, and effective, and fast, that these lobbyists can't counter them and we see that discontinuity. But I place the odds as less than 50/50, sadly. So much could go wrong.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Star One

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Poor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesnít guarantee a future one.

Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.

Iíd argue that the discontinuity this time is so called new space. No longer do the old boys have the playing field to themselves. Iíd certainly like to see them giving a fair chance.
I agree that it COULD be a discontinuity but there are people actively campaigning (where it matters, on K street and in the waiting rooms of Congress) to make it not be so, to continue with the high cost, high pork approach.  They are not friends of NewSpace.

I think the best hope is that NewSpace just goes off and does things... things so astonishingly broad, and cheap, and effective, and fast, that these lobbyists can't counter them and we see that discontinuity. But I place the odds as less than 50/50, sadly. So much could go wrong.

You fear then that the fine words issuing from politicians about new space are just that words alone without the practical follow through?

Offline Political Hack Wannabe

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Poor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesnít guarantee a future one.

Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.

All this back and forth aside, evidence  as to why they think its just a funnel to defense contractors would actually be useful.  Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but I for one would like to hear some actual data.
 And "well, Washington is corrupt, and everybody knows it," doesn't cut it - I'd argue that just moves towards the area of non-space politics issues that we aren't suppose to discuss.

(And I don't have a dog in the national security world)
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Offline Lar

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You fear then that the fine words issuing from politicians about new space are just that words alone without the practical follow through?

You know it, brother.

Poor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesnít guarantee a future one.

Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.

All this back and forth aside, evidence  as to why they think its just a funnel to defense contractors would actually be useful.  Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but I for one would like to hear some actual data.
 And "well, Washington is corrupt, and everybody knows it," doesn't cut it - I'd argue that just moves towards the area of non-space politics issues that we aren't suppose to discuss.

(And I don't have a dog in the national security world)

My default response when some political hack, ( or wannabe hack, whichever ), says "things will be different this time"? ... "prove it" ... the onus is on them to prove that the status quo ante isn't projecting forward as per usual.

My second response? Checking my wallet to make sure it hasn't been pilfered.

That's enough of that. Maybe talk about tangible things we could see happen that would demonstrate that this isn't just talk, and that there is a plan to overcome the high powered lobbyists of the MIC and change things.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Political Hack Wannabe

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You fear then that the fine words issuing from politicians about new space are just that words alone without the practical follow through?

You know it, brother.

Poor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesnít guarantee a future one.

Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.

All this back and forth aside, evidence  as to why they think its just a funnel to defense contractors would actually be useful.  Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but I for one would like to hear some actual data.
 And "well, Washington is corrupt, and everybody knows it," doesn't cut it - I'd argue that just moves towards the area of non-space politics issues that we aren't suppose to discuss.

(And I don't have a dog in the national security world)

My default response when some political hack, ( or wannabe hack, whichever ), says "things will be different this time"? ... "prove it" ... the onus is on them to prove that the status quo ante isn't projecting forward as per usual.

My second response? Checking my wallet to make sure it hasn't been pilfered.

That's enough of that. Maybe talk about tangible things we could see happen that would demonstrate that this isn't just talk, and that there is a plan to overcome the high powered lobbyists of the MIC and change things.

That's fine and dandy, but it does return us to the original point....

It's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...

I would like to hear some evidence
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Offline Tea Party Space Czar

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This is something that is incredibly reasonable.  Why not empower the private sector in the space industry?  The innovation of the American people is one of our biggest, if not the biggest, strength we as America have.  The private sector is much more agile and innovative.  It is a clear advantage to the United States to engage the private sector in the expanding space industry.

Quite frankly, this is validating the reality that the private sector is much more efficient with time and resources.  We want to move quicker.  We want to protect the interests of the United States - and quite frankly - humanity.  This is not in anyway diminishing the millions of accomplishments that NASA and the government have had since 1957... its just 2017 now and there are better ways to accomplish the mission.

Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Trump have made steps to ensure inclusion of the private sector in improving space security and accessibility.  Some will rightfully argue it has always been the private sector; however, it was always under the auspices of NASA.  This simply isn't the case anymore.

Respectfully,
Andrew Gasser

Offline Rocket Science

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You fear then that the fine words issuing from politicians about new space are just that words alone without the practical follow through?

You know it, brother.

Poor choice of word really should have used evidence instead. Proof of a past outcome doesnít guarantee a future one.

Sure doesn't. But when extrapolating, linear progression/curve fitting is not a bad place to start guessing. If you can predict an upcoming discontinuity, great, but those are hard to spot.

All this back and forth aside, evidence  as to why they think its just a funnel to defense contractors would actually be useful.  Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion, but I for one would like to hear some actual data.
 And "well, Washington is corrupt, and everybody knows it," doesn't cut it - I'd argue that just moves towards the area of non-space politics issues that we aren't suppose to discuss.

(And I don't have a dog in the national security world)

My default response when some political hack, ( or wannabe hack, whichever ), says "things will be different this time"? ... "prove it" ... the onus is on them to prove that the status quo ante isn't projecting forward as per usual.

My second response? Checking my wallet to make sure it hasn't been pilfered.

That's enough of that. Maybe talk about tangible things we could see happen that would demonstrate that this isn't just talk, and that there is a plan to overcome the high powered lobbyists of the MIC and change things.

That's fine and dandy, but it does return us to the original point....

It's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...

I would like to hear some evidence
I would like to see some proof that it won't be...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Offline Lar

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It's just creating a "new money funnel" to the defense contractors...

I would like to hear some evidence
I would like to see some proof that it won't be...

Yep. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The onus is on those who say "this time it will be different" to prove it...d not those saying it will be same old same old.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Coastal Ron

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I agree that it COULD be a discontinuity but there are people actively campaigning (where it matters, on K street and in the waiting rooms of Congress) to make it not be so, to continue with the high cost, high pork approach.  They are not friends of NewSpace.

As with pretty much everything in politics, it doesn't matter what politicians say, it only matters what they do. So we really don't know how this will play out yet.

For instance, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and Orbital ATK are all part of the "space industry", so saying that the private sector is going to be playing a more prominent role could just result in more cost-plus contracts for the big players, and not much for the smaller and more innovative companies (let's not debate that point, just stick with the concept overall).

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I think the best hope is that NewSpace just goes off and does things... things so astonishingly broad, and cheap, and effective, and fast, that these lobbyists can't counter them and we see that discontinuity. But I place the odds as less than 50/50, sadly.

Yes, NewSpace should keep their focus and not worry about what the U.S. Government is doing unless there truly is synergy, such as the Commercial Cargo and Crew programs.

And I don't see that there will be any sort of sea-change at NASA, because Trump really hasn't announced anything different for NASA to do in the near-term. Plus, major changes usually have to be started with some sort of legislation, and usually also with new money. I just don't see that happening with this Republican Congress - with tax cuts they are ready to move onto budget cuts, so it would take a lot of effort to get them to fund something new.

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So much could go wrong.

Agreed.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

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