Author Topic: Trump Space Policy Directive 1  (Read 33015 times)

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #20 on: 12/11/2017 03:41 PM »
The usually "fiscally obsessed" Republicans seemed to have lost their way and with a president who doesn't care about debt, it will be interesting how this will pan out in these unusual times"...

The previous Republican administration dramatically increased the national debt. While some Republicans are still concerned with the debt, the 21st century Republican Party as a whole gave up on being fiscally conservative. They give it lip service and try to cut Democrat favored programs, but they reduce revenue and increase the programs they like.

That said, NASA already has a large budget and I doubt Congress will give them more money.
Agreed about the debt, but this president is only interested in aggrandizing his term in office with his obsession with his own "Kennedy moment" and legacy building (he already has begun a second term campaign). He may concoct a deal with his Republican colleagues in congress to this end... We'll see...
« Last Edit: 12/11/2017 03:41 PM by Rocket Science »
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Online clongton

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #21 on: 12/11/2017 04:47 PM »
I think the article jumps to conclusions a bit quickly

The directive text according to the article says : “We shall lead an innovative and sustainable program of exploration with commercial and international partners to enable human expansion across the solar system to bring new knowledge and opportunities. Beginning with missions beyond low Earth orbit, the United States will lead to return humans to the Moon for  long term exploration followed by human missions to Mars and other destinations.”

Nowhere it is said “to the Moon surface” in this alleged text. You can make the case that having extended stays at the Deep Space Gateway is “returning humans to the Moon”.


Text emphasis mine. Long Term Exploration can only mean the lunar surface. There is nowhere else in the cis-lunar vicinity *to explore*.
Your reasoning would exclude the Martian surface when the sentence continues "followed by human missions to Mars".
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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #22 on: 12/11/2017 05:02 PM »
Our long journey to the stars—and the Moon
Forty-five years ago today, NASA’s final Apollo mission landed on the surface of the Moon. No human has walked there since.
This afternoon, President Donald J. Trump will tell the country that it’s time to refocus our vision for American space exploration.
In signing Space Policy Directive 1 today—the first recommendation of the recently reconvened National Space Council—the President will shift NASA’s resources and attention toward the Moon and Mars. Given its relative closeness, the Moon in particular offers humans the best hope for long-term exploration and utilization.
President Ronald Reagan once eloquently captured the sweep of mankind as “his long climb from the swamp to the stars.” With President Trump’s order today, America commits itself once again to writing the next chapter of that story.
Watch the signing ceremony today at 3:00 p.m. EST.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/president-trump-participates-signing-ceremony-space-policy-directive-%E2%80%93-1

Online oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #23 on: 12/11/2017 05:12 PM »
I would like to point out the recent NASA release of the NextSTEP2 BAA ISRU. That is definitely targeting Moon surface ops of some sort. And not just a flags and footprints either but long term infrastructure buildup. So the recent new RFI's coming out of NASA point to a sustained presence/base on Lunar surface (even if not always occupied by humans) and a methodical buildup of cis-Lunar infrastructure for support of even more ambitious adventures (HSF Mars).
« Last Edit: 12/11/2017 06:16 PM by oldAtlas_Eguy »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #24 on: 12/11/2017 05:48 PM »

Offline hektor

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #25 on: 12/11/2017 06:08 PM »

Text emphasis mine. Long Term Exploration can only mean the lunar surface. There is nowhere else in the cis-lunar vicinity *to explore*.
Your reasoning would exclude the Martian surface when the sentence continues "followed by human missions to Mars".

You can do such long term exploration with small robots teleoperated from the Deep Space Gateway.

And yes I can well imagine NASA doing years of orbital operations at Mars without landing a crew.
« Last Edit: 12/11/2017 06:10 PM by hektor »

Offline Ronsmytheiii

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #26 on: 12/11/2017 06:48 PM »
So some thoughts:

1. I ended up liking Obama and a lot of his policies, but thought his "No Moon" speech was short sighted. NASA was pretty much left rudderless on the future after his announcement, and Congress moved to fill it quickly with Orion/SLS without so much as a plan. NASA did some sharp planing and came up with its "Evolvable Mars Campaign" which has a flexible long term plan that leads at some point to Mars. Yet it leaves Congress/Executive branch options in the short term for developing capabilities and destinations while gradually building for the end goal.

2. Moon first increases the likely-hood that SLS/Orion ends earlier. They will certainly fly to cislunar space, but with a much closer destination many of the immediate in develop EELV Heavy vehicles (Vulcan/ACES, New Glenn, and Falcon Heavy) would probably at first supplement SLS launches, until eventually the old SRB cases used for SLS deplete requiring a new booster competition. At this point, I could see a push for the commercial HLV alternatives from industry (especially if Blue Origin has a thriving industrial base building boosters/capsules in Florida in addition to engine production in Alabama) instead of a new booster competition.

3. Moon return will cement commercial model for further exploration. There is not enough money for a traditional procurement model for a lunar lander with the current budget. NASA will have to reuse the CCDev or even COTS model.
« Last Edit: 12/11/2017 06:49 PM by Ronsmytheiii »
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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #27 on: 12/11/2017 06:55 PM »
It's on NASA TV too:
http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #28 on: 12/11/2017 06:59 PM »

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #29 on: 12/11/2017 07:02 PM »
Returning to the lunar surface. Establishing a base for missions to Mars.

Manages to mention the Stock Market's are rising.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #30 on: 12/11/2017 07:08 PM »
VP Pence says this signing will ensure American leadership in space....once again.

Trump: "This means jobs, jobs. We love jobs too, right?"

Offline hektor

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #31 on: 12/11/2017 07:11 PM »
Can you provide the exact quote about Lunar surface because I missed it.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #32 on: 12/11/2017 07:13 PM »
Interesting, not the usual need to regain leadership line:

Quote
Trump: we’re the leader and we’re going to stay the leader, and increase it many-fold.

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/940311175631462401

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #33 on: 12/11/2017 07:27 PM »
Miles O'Brien comment's on CNN: "no bucks, no Buck Rogers"...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #34 on: 12/11/2017 07:40 PM »


Quote
Published on 11 Dec 2017Acting NASA Administrator Robert Lightfoot and National Space Council Executive Secretary Scott Pace comment on Space Policy Directive 1, signed Monday, Dec. 11, 2017, by President Trump at the White House.

The policy calls on NASA to work with international and commercial partners to send humans to the Moon, with a horizon goal of sending astronauts to Mars.

There’s an emphasis on industry leading more and working with international partners.

Offline spacetraveler

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #35 on: 12/11/2017 07:45 PM »
Wondering what will actually change here.

SLS/Orion could do moon missions, but another system could probably do it cheaper. But is it worth it to start all over again at this point?

Or are we really just talking about a new lander development program that would use the existing HLV development path.

Either way Congress will have to determine where we go from here and I doubt there is funding for a major new lander while keeping all the other things in the current budget.

Offline vt_hokie

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #36 on: 12/11/2017 07:46 PM »
In terms of immediate change, I don't see anything noteworthy, but if a return not just to cislunar space but also to the lunar surface is truly a priority, when do we see some movement toward development of a lunar lander?  Certainly it doesn't seem like a revival of Altair to go with the ever delayed and overbudget SLS and Orion is in the cards.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #37 on: 12/11/2017 07:49 PM »
The good news is he actually remembered to "sign" the directive this time... progress...
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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #38 on: 12/11/2017 07:49 PM »
Two things that were memorable:

1. VP Pence stating that we're returning to our Moon for strategic reasons - national security.

2. Trump stating that his policy is about jobs.

The first one is very scary, since I don't think anyone wants to militarize space. That would just hasten the end of Earth, which means maybe we should be all shoving money at Elon Musk to hurry up and get the Mars colony going.

As for jobs, Trump doesn't know anything more about "space" than he does about the military (i.e. very little), which means Congress can just keep funding NASA for jobs like they like to do, and not much needs to get accomplished. And likely Congress won't increase NASA's funding, which if so would be bad news for the SLS and Orion programs, which currently don't have any funded programs or payloads that they are needed to support. More status quo is bad for them.

So did anything change today? No.
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

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Re: Trump Space Policy Directive 1
« Reply #39 on: 12/11/2017 07:53 PM »
They forgot Buzz ...

Quote
List of attendees (from White House press office) at Trump signing ceremony for Space Policy Directive 1.

https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/status/940319223162789888

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