Poll

Which US Space Agencies should be involved in enabling space settlement?

None, there is no reason for the US government to enable space settlement
NASA
Office of Space Transportation in FAA
Office of Space Commerce in Dept of Commerce
NOAA
FCC
State Department
Defense Department
Some other agency or agencies which I will name in the comments.

Voting closes: 12/16/2017 02:47 AM


Author Topic: US Space Agencies and space settlement  (Read 2579 times)

Online Political Hack Wannabe

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US Space Agencies and space settlement
« on: 11/15/2017 06:24 PM »
Offered without comment
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Online Lar

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #1 on: 11/15/2017 08:39 PM »
Poll is flawed.  My answer is ALL of the choices.  No agency SHOULD be involved but all of the named ones WILL be involved. Once one gets involved you want all of the mentioned ones.

Was tempted to just edit it so that was an allowable choice. Still might.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #2 on: 11/15/2017 08:49 PM »
I'm surprised nobody mentioned HUD.
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Online Political Hack Wannabe

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #3 on: 11/16/2017 01:28 AM »
Poll is flawed.  My answer is ALL of the choices.  No agency SHOULD be involved but all of the named ones WILL be involved. Once one gets involved you want all of the mentioned ones.

Was tempted to just edit it so that was an allowable choice. Still might.
First, why do you say no agency should be involved in enabling space settlement?  I am curious.

Second, no it's not flawed.  I didn't limit people's selection to one vote  - you can, in fact, vote for all of them (It's the reason I said agencies rather than agency - I voted for a collection of them).  That said, I would argue that saying "All the choices" is itself flawed, because one of those choices, choice A (None, there is no reason for the US government to enable space settlement) assumes a position that is contradictory to all of the other options.  (I am sorry if that wasn't clear, I kind of assumed it would be, but...)
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 01:39 AM by Political Hack Wannabe »
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Online Political Hack Wannabe

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #4 on: 11/16/2017 01:35 AM »
I'm surprised nobody mentioned HUD.

The main reason I left out HUD is because right now, HUD doesn't have any area that is considering items related to enabling space settlement.  I will acknowledge it's conceivable that they could play a role in enabling space settlement, but they don't have an internal organization that is set up to even engage on this issue
It's not democrats vs republicans, it's reality vs innumerate space cadet fantasy.

Online Lar

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #5 on: 11/16/2017 02:46 AM »
Poll is flawed.  My answer is ALL of the choices.  No agency SHOULD be involved but all of the named ones WILL be involved. Once one gets involved you want all of the mentioned ones.

Was tempted to just edit it so that was an allowable choice. Still might.
First, why do you say no agency should be involved in enabling space settlement?  I am curious.

Second, no it's not flawed.  I didn't limit people's selection to one vote  - you can, in fact, vote for all of them (It's the reason I said agencies rather than agency - I voted for a collection of them).  That said, I would argue that saying "All the choices" is itself flawed, because one of those choices, choice A (None, there is no reason for the US government to enable space settlement) assumes a position that is contradictory to all of the other options.  (I am sorry if that wasn't clear, I kind of assumed it would be, but...)

First, because I'm libertarian, I know for sure that the best way to ensure massive, accelerated settlement is if no government is involved at all. Goverment, for the most part, hinders growth, not helps (the exception is ensuring rule of law). 

But a future with no government involvement? Not going to happen.[1] Every one of the agencies you name will *want* to be involved as this is like the opening of the American West, writ large. 99%++ of all the resources in the system are off planet.

Second... it follows, therefore, that your poll is flawed, because there is no way to vote to show that all agencies will be involved and also vote that none should be. The vote limit needs to be 8, or even 9 (with another option "some other agency which I will name in the comments"). So I changed it.

1 - it's also not going to be debated here. This view informs my thinking and I'm stating it so you know where I am coming from, but it's not up for debate whether it's correct or not. (nor is any other view that anyone else expresses as a foundation for *their* thinking, should they choose to) That's general policy debate which we don't do here.
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 02:49 AM by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Blackstar

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #6 on: 11/16/2017 03:05 AM »
The Small Business Administration should be on that list. Also, the Department of Agriculture, because of cows.

Online RonM

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #7 on: 11/16/2017 03:56 AM »
Because of the OST, there isn't a lot of reasons for the government to support space settlement. Settlements can't become new territory, so why should the government be directly involved? I did pick the Office of Space Commerce in Dept of Commerce since the OST requires regulation by the country of origin. Might as well give US companies assistance to succeed (and tax the profits!).

Offline woods170

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #8 on: 11/16/2017 06:29 AM »
Disappointing thread this. As if the USA is the only country capable of enabling space settlement (I speak as someone from Europe).

Online RonM

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #9 on: 11/16/2017 03:53 PM »
Disappointing thread this. As if the USA is the only country capable of enabling space settlement (I speak as someone from Europe).

You're missing the point. This thread is about US government agencies participation, not the concept of space settlement. If the US doesn't participate, then other nations can lead the way.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #10 on: 11/16/2017 05:53 PM »
Am I the only one who has figured out that this thread is actually a joke?

The FCC is on the list. The FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION. You think they're going to settle planets?

Goofball thread, not to be taken seriously.

Online RonM

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #11 on: 11/16/2017 06:22 PM »
Am I the only one who has figured out that this thread is actually a joke?

The FCC is on the list. The FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION. You think they're going to settle planets?

Goofball thread, not to be taken seriously.

C'mon, join in the fun. Many of the "what if" threads around here quickly devolve into silliness. Who knows, this could even become a serious thread.

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #12 on: 11/16/2017 06:37 PM »
I'm surprised nobody mentioned HUD.

The main reason I left out HUD is because right now, HUD doesn't have any area that is considering items related to enabling space settlement.  I will acknowledge it's conceivable that they could play a role in enabling space settlement, but they don't have an internal organization that is set up to even engage on this issue

...yet.
My God!  It's full of universes!

Online Lar

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #13 on: 11/16/2017 06:39 PM »
Am I the only one who has figured out that this thread is actually a joke?

The FCC is on the list. The FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION. You think they're going to settle planets?

Goofball thread, not to be taken seriously.
The FCC feels they have a role in communications licensing. Does their writ extend beyond GEO? How far beyond? Does it extend to L2 (the location, not our wonderful resource)... to Luna? To Mars?  Did you want to argue that communication isn't required for settlement?

If you don't want to take the thread seriously, don't... But that's a serious question.  Best you just ignore the thread completely.

I mean, I have a hard time taking the general question seriously but I'm trying to be a good forum citizen and maybe I'll learn something I didn't know. ...

Disappointing thread this. As if the USA is the only country capable of enabling space settlement (I speak as someone from Europe).

The author is a US politician (wannabe?)  I agree, though, it does leave out everything else (and the UN and other international bodies such as the WHO, the postal union, etc...). You could start another thread if you were so inclined.
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 06:43 PM by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline jebbo

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #14 on: 11/16/2017 07:19 PM »
The FCC feels they have a role in communications licensing. Does their writ extend beyond GEO? How far beyond? Does it extend to L2 (the location, not our wonderful resource)... to Luna? To Mars?  Did you want to argue that communication isn't required for settlement?

This highlights an issue for us Europeans: the implication that US laws and regulations apply everywhere. And the thread / poll ignores things like the Outer Space Treaty (the flaws of which are many), etc. [ I know you are pushing a point for effect but still ]

Hence, I suspect, the short shrift given above by woods170

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Online Lar

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #15 on: 11/16/2017 07:40 PM »
The FCC feels they have a role in communications licensing. Does their writ extend beyond GEO? How far beyond? Does it extend to L2 (the location, not our wonderful resource)... to Luna? To Mars?  Did you want to argue that communication isn't required for settlement?

This highlights an issue for us Europeans: the implication that US laws and regulations apply everywhere. And the thread / poll ignores things like the Outer Space Treaty (the flaws of which are many), etc. [ I know you are pushing a point for effect but still ]

Hence, I suspect, the short shrift given above by woods170

--- Tony

I took the implication to be that the US was the nation from which entities most likely to be actually doing settlement would be from, not that US laws applied regardless of nation. The OST says the US is responsible if it's a US entity doing things. Unless the OST is modified or abrogated, that means they are subject to US law (sadly).

What other nation has organizations with mottos like "millions of people working and living in space" or "Occupy Mars" ???

Chauvinistic, but realistic, I think.
« Last Edit: 11/16/2017 07:41 PM by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline woods170

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #16 on: 11/17/2017 05:53 AM »
Disappointing thread this. As if the USA is the only country capable of enabling space settlement (I speak as someone from Europe).

You're missing the point. This thread is about US government agencies participation, not the concept of space settlement. If the US doesn't participate, then other nations can lead the way.
No, I'm not missing the point. Had the involvement of other-than-US-agencies been considered the thread title would have been something like this:

"Space Agencies and Space Settlement". The "US" part would have been left out.

Despite the name "NASASpaceflight.com", this site and its forum are about everything spaceflight worldwide. Not just the USA. The ludicrous focus of this thread on US space agencies does not fit well within the international scope of this forum.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2017 05:58 AM by woods170 »

Offline chrisking0997

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #17 on: 11/17/2017 03:52 PM »
Am I the only one who has figured out that this thread is actually a joke?

The FCC is on the list. The FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION. You think they're going to settle planets?

Goofball thread, not to be taken seriously.

"involved" was the keyword in the question.  The joke is that ANY of them would make settlement easy or efficient...but I guess that wasnt really the point
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Online RonM

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #18 on: 11/17/2017 04:47 PM »
Disappointing thread this. As if the USA is the only country capable of enabling space settlement (I speak as someone from Europe).

You're missing the point. This thread is about US government agencies participation, not the concept of space settlement. If the US doesn't participate, then other nations can lead the way.
No, I'm not missing the point. Had the involvement of other-than-US-agencies been considered the thread title would have been something like this:

"Space Agencies and Space Settlement". The "US" part would have been left out.

Despite the name "NASASpaceflight.com", this site and its forum are about everything spaceflight worldwide. Not just the USA. The ludicrous focus of this thread on US space agencies does not fit well within the international scope of this forum.

So, we can't have specific threads about individual ESA, Chinese, Japanese, or Russian projects because they would not be international enough?

Offline yg1968

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Re: US Space Agencies and space settlement
« Reply #19 on: 11/17/2017 05:28 PM »
The author is a US politician (wannabe?)  I agree, though, it does leave out everything else (and the UN and other international bodies such as the WHO, the postal union, etc...). You could start another thread if you were so inclined.

A Washington D.C. lobbyist actually (see his early posts).
« Last Edit: 11/17/2017 05:30 PM by yg1968 »

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