Author Topic: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis  (Read 3997 times)

Offline AncientU

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‘The Martian’ author Andy Weir is convinced we’ll colonize the moon — but says colonizing Mars doesn’t make any sense

http://www.businessinsider.sg/andy-weir-artemis-book-moon-colony-reason-2017-11/
« Last Edit: 11/05/2017 09:10 PM by AncientU »
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Online KelvinZero

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #1 on: 11/05/2017 10:46 PM »
Im looking forward to reading the book. I am looking forward to the blockbuster movie or TV series as well..

.. Im not looking forward to the wailing and gnashing of teeth on this forum. :)

To me, the extreme fans and detractors are all together in missing the point, including intelligent people like Tyson and Nye. Dont worry about it. Elon Musk is not Noah, building a massive ark on a mountaintop and awaiting a miracle. The most exciting thing about BFR should be that it has a mundane business case. Mars will be done out of the petty cash from all the other things it is doing.


Offline Blackstar

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #2 on: 11/06/2017 04:06 AM »
I've heard Weir talk about the book a couple of times, and other than world building, he hasn't really said what it is about--like who is the protagonist and what's the plot. Those things are going to be key to it being made into a movie. I'd like to think that a studio bought the movie rights after reading a nearly complete manuscript.

But it's also possible that they grabbed it simply based upon the success of "The Martian," and now some scriptwriter is looking at it and wondering how he's going to turn it into a real movie. (There are different types of story options, and it's possible that they bought it contingent upon their being able to successfully adapt it to the screen--meaning Weir gets a bigger paycheck once they start filming.) I hope it works, because we need more good hard sci-fi movies and less junk like "Transformers."






Online sanman

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #3 on: 11/06/2017 04:38 AM »
I think there was a discussion on this before:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42894.msg1675998

All I remember was that it was some kind of crime-suspense-conspiracy thing happening on the Moon.

https://nerdist.com/andy-weir-artemis-book-details-cover-the-martian-movie-exclusive/

Offline Oersted

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #4 on: 11/06/2017 05:02 AM »
You can read the first chapter online. I wasn't too thrilled but will probably get it.

Online KelvinZero

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #5 on: 11/06/2017 09:03 AM »
Thanks! I read the first chapter. I think Andy Weir is a member or has posted here?

Writing-wise, the style could benefit from bit of "show, don't tell". That is not a big deal, and certainly not if someone is going to mine it for a movie. It is the sort of hardSF I want to see. I don't like superstar astronauts or Elon-musk types as protagonists ( too unbelievable ;) ), and the future as to be near enough to be rigorously plausible and far enough that there are more important plot devices than technical failures and solar storms.

Im also interested in someone coming up with a good 'pulp' formula for hard SF. I think the lack of this is one of the key reasons why we are inundated with star trek and warp drive rather than futures we can actually realise with just engineering. Can't tell from the first chapter but this might be borrowing from the "hard boiled crime fiction" direction. I think The Expanse did a bit of the same. Maybe that is the pulp angle that we need to take credible-SF film and TV out of the one off novelty category.

Online sanman

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #6 on: 11/06/2017 02:29 PM »
Im also interested in someone coming up with a good 'pulp' formula for hard SF. I think the lack of this is one of the key reasons why we are inundated with star trek and warp drive rather than futures we can actually realise with just engineering. Can't tell from the first chapter but this might be borrowing from the "hard boiled crime fiction" direction. I think The Expanse did a bit of the same. Maybe that is the pulp angle that we need to take credible-SF film and TV out of the one off novelty category.

Wasn't the Miller character's story arc in The Expanse a sort of hard-boiled detective? I suppose there was also Outland, starring Sean Connery (which seemed like an attempt to recycle the movie sets built for Alien a couple of years earlier)

My favorite character in Babylon5 was security chief Garibaldi, who was played by actor Jerry Doyle in a totally gumshoe style.

There's a genre known as Tech Noir which is supposed to describe this style of fiction.

Various movies come under it, like Blade Runner, The Terminator, Robocop, etc

https://www.ranker.com/list/best-future-noir-movies-all-time/reference
« Last Edit: 11/06/2017 02:42 PM by sanman »

Offline Blackstar

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #7 on: 11/06/2017 08:20 PM »
There's a genre known as Tech Noir which is supposed to describe this style of fiction.

Various movies come under it, like Blade Runner, The Terminator, Robocop, etc


If you watch The Terminator, in the nightclub scene where Arnold shoots up the place there is a big flashing "Tech Noir" sign, so maybe James Cameron gets credit for the term.

However, I'd note that it does not strictly refer to detective stories. The term generally describes a series of attributes, including menacing technology, a lot of night scenes, a focus on underdog characters, etc. Just as film noir did not require a detective or a murder, tech noir is a sort of atmospheric description.

Offline Oli

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #8 on: 11/07/2017 01:47 AM »
Quote
‘The Martian’ author Andy Weir is convinced we’ll colonize the moon — but says colonizing Mars doesn’t make any sense

http://www.businessinsider.sg/andy-weir-artemis-book-moon-colony-reason-2017-11/

I mostly agree with his reasoning, but the Moon offers only 0.17g, so even if a tourism economy develops, employees are unlikely going to stay there for years.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #9 on: 11/07/2017 03:50 AM »
I mostly agree with his reasoning, but the Moon offers only 0.17g, so even if a tourism economy develops, employees are unlikely going to stay there for years.

Nothin' a little drug research won't fix.

Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Offline su27k

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #10 on: 11/07/2017 12:50 PM »
Quote
I think that neither Musk nor anybody else seems to be considering, what economic reason is there to go to this other planet? So far, I’ve never heard an answer to that. It’s like, “We can put people on Mars!” And I’m like, “Why? So they’ll be there? Well, we can put people on Antarctica, why not do that?”

It's disappointing that the author seems to be unaware that we have put people on Antarctica, the population is between 1000 in winter and 5000 in summer, bigger than his hypothetical Moon city.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #11 on: 11/07/2017 09:56 PM »
Quote
I think that neither Musk nor anybody else seems to be considering, what economic reason is there to go to this other planet? So far, I’ve never heard an answer to that. It’s like, “We can put people on Mars!” And I’m like, “Why? So they’ll be there? Well, we can put people on Antarctica, why not do that?”

It's disappointing that the author seems to be unaware that we have put people on Antarctica, the population is between 1000 in winter and 5000 in summer, bigger than his hypothetical Moon city.

What's the economic reason for the scientific research bases on Antarctica?

Offline QuantumG

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #12 on: 11/07/2017 10:09 PM »
It's disappointing that the author seems to be unaware that we have put people on Antarctica, the population is between 1000 in winter and 5000 in summer, bigger than his hypothetical Moon city.

and according to IAATO statistics there were 9778 visitors last year.

https://iaato.org/tourism-statistics
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Online KelvinZero

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #13 on: 11/07/2017 11:10 PM »
Hey, random thought: Does NSF use https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/ ?
I think the way it works is that if I buy though that link, some of the advertising revenue goes to NSF.

We have had threads where people just suggest good SF.. It might be no more work than an admin copying amazon links into thread post.. maybe. I don't really know how the tools work.

To keep vaguely on topic, here is the link on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Artemis-Novel-Andy-Weir/dp/0553448129


Online ValmirGP

Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #14 on: 11/07/2017 11:42 PM »
Quote
I think that neither Musk nor anybody else seems to be considering, what economic reason is there to go to this other planet? So far, I’ve never heard an answer to that. It’s like, “We can put people on Mars!” And I’m like, “Why? So they’ll be there? Well, we can put people on Antarctica, why not do that?”

It's disappointing that the author seems to be unaware that we have put people on Antarctica, the population is between 1000 in winter and 5000 in summer, bigger than his hypothetical Moon city.

What's the economic reason for the scientific research bases on Antarctica?
The reason is off topic, but basically, owning the land. The Antarctic treaty was put together so as to prevent an international conflict over the ownership of the territory. The original one stipulated that no claim would be made beyond that of the seven nations that had already made claims. So, basically, despite their scientific nature (which can be used to map possible riches of the continent) the bases are there to assure the possession of the land.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #15 on: 11/08/2017 01:06 AM »
Quote
I think that neither Musk nor anybody else seems to be considering, what economic reason is there to go to this other planet? So far, I’ve never heard an answer to that. It’s like, “We can put people on Mars!” And I’m like, “Why? So they’ll be there? Well, we can put people on Antarctica, why not do that?”

It's disappointing that the author seems to be unaware that we have put people on Antarctica, the population is between 1000 in winter and 5000 in summer, bigger than his hypothetical Moon city.

What's the economic reason for the scientific research bases on Antarctica?
The reason is off topic, but basically, owning the land. The Antarctic treaty was put together so as to prevent an international conflict over the ownership of the territory. The original one stipulated that no claim would be made beyond that of the seven nations that had already made claims. So, basically, despite their scientific nature (which can be used to map possible riches of the continent) the bases are there to assure the possession of the land.

Actually, it's not "possession" of the land but "dispossession."

And in fact, Antarctica makes for a poor justification for a Moon (or Mars) colony, because the people who are there are there primarily for geopolitical reasons, to occupy the place so that war doesn't break out. (Now I know a scientist heading there soon, and she's going to hunt for meteorites. But we have to look at the larger reasons why it is primarily scientists who are sent there.) There's no similar reason to occupy the Moon--nobody's been there for almost five decades and war hasn't broken out.

But, you know, forest, trees. Weir's point was that there are lots of really horrible places to live, and if you're looking for a horrible place to live, why not live in Antarctica? Why is the Moon a more appealing horrible place to live than Antarctica? It's not. There's no oil there. No palm oil or bananas or gold. Also no air.

TLDR: Weir was using an analogy, not being literal. Why don't people understand that?
« Last Edit: 11/08/2017 01:07 AM by Blackstar »

Offline su27k

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #16 on: 11/08/2017 01:11 AM »
Quote
I think that neither Musk nor anybody else seems to be considering, what economic reason is there to go to this other planet? So far, I’ve never heard an answer to that. It’s like, “We can put people on Mars!” And I’m like, “Why? So they’ll be there? Well, we can put people on Antarctica, why not do that?”

It's disappointing that the author seems to be unaware that we have put people on Antarctica, the population is between 1000 in winter and 5000 in summer, bigger than his hypothetical Moon city.

What's the economic reason for the scientific research bases on Antarctica?

There isn't one, at least not in the short term. Which is the point: The author's single minded focus on short term economic return is misleading, it is possible to sustain a base or small city without any immediate economic return.

Offline daveklingler

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #17 on: 11/08/2017 01:57 AM »
Quote
I think that neither Musk nor anybody else seems to be considering, what economic reason is there to go to this other planet? So far, I’ve never heard an answer to that. It’s like, “We can put people on Mars!” And I’m like, “Why? So they’ll be there? Well, we can put people on Antarctica, why not do that?”

It's disappointing that the author seems to be unaware that we have put people on Antarctica, the population is between 1000 in winter and 5000 in summer, bigger than his hypothetical Moon city.

What's the economic reason for the scientific research bases on Antarctica?

There isn't one, at least not in the short term. Which is the point: The author's single minded focus on short term economic return is misleading, it is possible to sustain a base or small city without any immediate economic return.

Interesting.  What or who will pay to sustain a base or small city on Mars?

Offline Blackstar

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #18 on: 11/12/2017 02:44 PM »
I've heard Weir talk about the book a couple of times, and other than world building, he hasn't really said what it is about--like who is the protagonist and what's the plot. Those things are going to be key to it being made into a movie. I'd like to think that a studio bought the movie rights after reading a nearly complete manuscript.

But it's also possible that they grabbed it simply based upon the success of "The Martian," and now some scriptwriter is looking at it and wondering how he's going to turn it into a real movie. (There are different types of story options, and it's possible that they bought it contingent upon their being able to successfully adapt it to the screen--meaning Weir gets a bigger paycheck once they start filming.) I hope it works, because we need more good hard sci-fi movies and less junk like "Transformers."

Updating my earlier post with a little info I got from hearing Weir do an NPR interview yesterday.

Weir said that his publisher (Crown) agreed to his second book, gave him an advance, and he started writing. But he got pretty far along with it before he realized that it was "not good." I think he said that the title of that book was called "Zhek." He then came up with the second idea, "Artemis," and had to go to his publisher and say he didn't want to do the first book anymore, he wanted to do "Artemis" instead.

His initial idea was for a Moon colony and he said that because cities grow from their economics, he started working out the economics first, then developing the colony. I think that I previously heard him speak this summer that a Moon colony made no sense at all, but he invented tourism as the reason, then went from there. So he doesn't believe the basic assumption of his premise, but after he assumed it, he tried to make all the following assumptions as logical as possible.

He said that because shipping stuff to the Moon would be very expensive, most stuff is manufactured there. So he started by figuring out what is the most plentiful mineral and then assuming that would be the building material. Then he worked out the energy requirement for smelting it, which was really high, higher than could be provided by solar power, so he assumed nuclear reactors would be needed, and so on.

He also said that after he had done a lot of the initial world building--which he considered the fun part--he then started working on characters and plot. The protagonist is a woman who has grown up on the Moon and considers herself to be a resident/citizen of the Moon, even though she is originally from Saudi Arabia. He did not provide any other details beyond that.

Offline su27k

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Re: New book(and movie?) about Moon colony -- Artemis
« Reply #19 on: 11/12/2017 04:33 PM »
Quote
I think that neither Musk nor anybody else seems to be considering, what economic reason is there to go to this other planet? So far, I’ve never heard an answer to that. It’s like, “We can put people on Mars!” And I’m like, “Why? So they’ll be there? Well, we can put people on Antarctica, why not do that?”

It's disappointing that the author seems to be unaware that we have put people on Antarctica, the population is between 1000 in winter and 5000 in summer, bigger than his hypothetical Moon city.

What's the economic reason for the scientific research bases on Antarctica?

There isn't one, at least not in the short term. Which is the point: The author's single minded focus on short term economic return is misleading, it is possible to sustain a base or small city without any immediate economic return.

Interesting.  What or who will pay to sustain a base or small city on Mars?

Government research station would be an obvious possibility, could also be private interest who wants to see humanity becoming a multi-planetary species.

Remember NASA and its international partners have a research station in LEO right now, it's just the station is too expensive to support more than a handful of people, orders of magnitude cost reduction would be necessary to make a non-economical base/city on Mars feasible.