Author Topic: The Orville premiere on Fox  (Read 6968 times)

Offline Eric Hedman

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
  • Liked: 186
  • Likes Given: 157
The Orville premiere on Fox
« on: 09/11/2017 05:31 AM »
I watched the premiere episode of the Orville.  I was unusual to say the least.  The special effects weren't bad.  They have some creative people in their art department.  The aliens were in some cases rather interesting looking.  The sets weren't too bad.  They had some interesting story concepts mixed in with smart alec comedy in weird moments.  It was like they couldn't decide how much it should be science fiction and how much should be comedy.  I have no idea how this will go over with the viewers.

I'm curious if anyone else saw this and if so, what do you think?  I'm still trying to figure out if it's something worth watching regularly..   

Offline ccdengr

  • Member
  • Posts: 73
  • Liked: 20
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #1 on: 09/11/2017 05:34 AM »
The jokes weren't funny and the scifi was bland and generic.  I can't imagine that this show will last for more than 6 eps (unless MacFarlane has some kind of deal with the devil.)
« Last Edit: 09/11/2017 05:35 AM by ccdengr »

Offline Eric Hedman

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
  • Liked: 186
  • Likes Given: 157
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #2 on: 09/11/2017 05:44 AM »
The jokes weren't funny and the scifi was bland and generic.  I can't imagine that this show will last for more than 6 eps (unless MacFarlane has some kind of deal with the devil.)
Maybe this should be turned into a poll guessing how many episodes it will last.  And I do completely agree with you about the jokes not being funny.

Offline Zed_Noir

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2191
  • Canada
  • Liked: 281
  • Likes Given: 434
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #3 on: 09/11/2017 08:10 AM »
The jokes weren't funny and the scifi was bland and generic.  I can't imagine that this show will last for more than 6 eps (unless MacFarlane has some kind of deal with the devil.)
Maybe this should be turned into a poll guessing how many episodes it will last.  And I do completely agree with you about the jokes not being funny.

You could only be so funny on a network show in prime time.

Since this is a Fox live action show. Don't think there will be a long run for the show regardless of the show ratings or critical acclaim  Fox did cancel Firefly after all.  >:(

Offline KelvinZero

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3482
  • Liked: 456
  • Likes Given: 116
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #4 on: 09/11/2017 11:06 AM »
Weirdly mild for the creator of Family Guy etc.

My pet theory is that this was actually intended to be part of the star trek universe, sort of a spinoff, and all sorts of constraints were added to the humour etc to make it fit, and late into the process it was rewritten at a superficial level to remove the startrek franchise connection.

I don't have any particular expectation this is what happened but it would explain the mystery nicely.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6960
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 611
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #5 on: 09/11/2017 11:10 AM »
Apparently The Orville has a large number of creative staff that are 'refugees' from Star Trek: Discovery, so a feel of it being an attempted comedic Star Trek spin off is probably inevitable.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline hektor

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1255
  • Liked: 19
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #6 on: 09/11/2017 11:17 AM »
Since this is a Fox live action show. Don't think there will be a long run for the show regardless of the show ratings or critical acclaim  Fox did cancel Firefly after all.  >:(

Well they have had Lucifer for three seasons now...

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #7 on: 09/14/2017 09:05 AM »
Needs a laugh track

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #8 on: 09/14/2017 03:15 PM »
Weirdly mild for the creator of Family Guy etc.

My pet theory is that this was actually intended to be part of the star trek universe, sort of a spinoff


It's best understood as Seth MacFarlane fan fiction--he wanted to make his own Star Trek show, like continuing Next Generation, and he makes so much money for Fox that they simply said yes, yes, whatever you want, Seth... As to whether they imposed the comedy on the show or that is simply his default position, I suspect the latter. It's impossible for him to play anything serious and he always has to add in a sex joke.
« Last Edit: 09/14/2017 03:36 PM by Blackstar »

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #9 on: 09/14/2017 03:26 PM »
A whole bunch of lackluster reviews:

What in the world is Seth MacFarlane’s sci-fi series The Orville supposed to be?
https://www.avclub.com/what-in-the-world-is-seth-macfarlane-s-sci-fi-series-th-1801816792

TV Review: The Orville
http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/tv-review-the-orville-season-1-episode-1-pilot-486-02

The Orville Review: Seth MacFarlane's Somber Sci-Fi Dud Crashes and Burns
http://tvline.com/2017/09/05/the-orville-review-fox-seth-macfarlane-sci-fi-outer-space/

MacFarlane is lost in space with ‘Orville’
http://www.sfchronicle.com/tv/article/MacFarlane-is-lost-in-space-with-Orville-12169901.php

‘The Orville’ Review: Seth MacFarlane’s ‘Star Trek’ Rip-Off is Creatively, Morally, and Ethically Bankrupt
http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/the-orville-review-seth-macfarlane-star-trek-rip-off-1201874080/


That last one is really tough:

"But the most shocking fact about “The Orville for most people is that it’s an hour long, and fundamentally uninterested in being a comedy. So many “Orville” scenes just die in the moment, because MacFarlane’s comedy instincts as a writer (he wrote the pilot, at the least) means that he can’t avoid writing in jokes. But this show does genuinely want to be a sci-fi adventure, so the comedy is either played completely deadpan, or not played at all. After watching the actual show, its intentions became clear: Seth wanted to cosplay being captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise. And Fox let him do it.

The 1990s “Star Trek” era, from “The Next Generation” to “Deep Space Nine” to “Voyager,” isn’t necessarily television that should be held up in comparison to the quote-unquote “Golden Age.” But it was well-produced for its time, and more importantly, nurtured some great storytelling and characters even while working within a largely standalone format. “DS9” was even an early and impactful example of how well serialized storytelling might work in genre programming, which led to “Battlestar Galactica,” “Lost,” and many other great shows."



"The headline above invokes three different ways the show is bankrupt: creatively, morally, and ethically. The lack of creativity is clear, given how it takes the basic framework of a “Trek” series and files off the serial numbers. But morally, it’s hard to imagine how anyone involved with this project could be comfortable with walking onto that set, watching those episodes, and seeing how blatant the imitation is. And ethically, it’s frustrating to see that the systems put into place to keep creators from ripping others off in such a blatant manner failed here.

The lack of creativity does not extend to the characters of the show, for the record. Certainly MacFarlane, as Ed, never gets much of a personality beyond his love of pop culture, while many members of the supporting cast represent paradigms established by the previously airing “Trek” series, some of them might represent the most creativity involved in “The Orville,” period. A few unique alien races are introduced, and Alara, a young inexperienced security officer of the Xelayan race (Halston Sage) especially makes an impression for being both super-tiny and super-strong, bringing a new dynamic to many of the show’s action scenes.

Here is another nice thing to say about “The Orville”: While the writing around MacFarlane’s and Palicki’s characters more often than not plays into some of the “dumbo man”/”nagging women” tropes that form the foundation of most “Family Guy” narratives, there is something of an effort made to not be super-misogynist. And there is a same-sex relationship that is never played for laughs."

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6960
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 611
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #10 on: 09/14/2017 04:28 PM »
Some Trek fans are actually thanking Seth McFarlane for giving them something new that actually feels like the TOS with its deadpan, forced (c.f. Harry Mudd) and sometimes-unintentional humour.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline eric z

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 285
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #11 on: 09/14/2017 04:49 PM »
 I gotta say, I was prepared to hate this thing, but wound up enjoying it more than any other recent stuff. Seth may be the best ST Capt. since Shatner; even though this is not technically a franchise show-as a matter of fact, I think the bigwigs that control the Trek empire should throw these guys some $$$ to get it into the fold. I tend to REALLY hate most modern CG-techniques, but for some reason it didn't bother me this time [give me an old "Godzilla" any day,usually]. I don't think they should push it more than 10-dozen episodes, though, probably go flat by then. Almost every cliche in the book, but somehow fresh. 8)

Offline GalacticIntruder

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
  • PPPPPPP
  • Huntsville, AL
  • Liked: 175
  • Likes Given: 54
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #12 on: 09/14/2017 04:51 PM »
One hour pilot episodes for grand adventure shows are risky. Could have been better. Humor is strange thing, and not a universal. Seth's humor is even more binary.  Hopefully it will be more adventure and only accidental humor. Farscape and Firelfy and SG1 had humor, even some episodes of Star Trek Series'. Had Men in Black vibe to it.

There was also a possible conspiracy in the first episode with his wife and the Admiral.

Seth is promising more serious and dark episodes too.

There have been plenty of stories about hapless commanders or accidental heroes.

They may have wanted a ST parody, but then again, have a walk tight rope with Paramount lawyers.
« Last Edit: 09/14/2017 04:56 PM by GalacticIntruder »
Watch out for those pesky corners, they have teeth.

Offline Jeff Lerner

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
  • Toronto, Canada
  • Liked: 50
  • Likes Given: 24
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #13 on: 09/14/2017 05:10 PM »
I just want to add that the aliens (Krill??)...are the worst shots in the universe...seemed that every shot the Orville away team took dropped an alien....every shot the aliens took never hit anyone...yes, yes, I know, McFarlane does get it but it's "just a flesh wound"....lol..

This show gets canceled before six episodes....it's not funny and it's not good scifi...

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #14 on: 09/15/2017 07:05 AM »
One hour pilot episodes for grand adventure shows are risky. Could have been better. Humor is strange thing, and not a universal. Seth's humor is even more binary.  Hopefully it will be more adventure and only accidental humor. Farscape and Firelfy and SG1 had humor, even some episodes of Star Trek Series'. Had Men in Black vibe to it.

There was also a possible conspiracy in the first episode with his wife and the Admiral.


It didn't really sound like a conspiracy - it simply sounds like she has a huge secret
(Any guesses? She's now an Admiral herself? She's got a cybernetic body now? She's got a fatal illness? She's now a quasi-omnipotent super-being?)


Quote
Seth is promising more serious and dark episodes too.

There have been plenty of stories about hapless commanders or accidental heroes.

They may have wanted a ST parody, but then again, have a walk tight rope with Paramount lawyers.

Sci-fi aside, I'm wondering what other show can this one be most closely compared to, style-wise?


I'm reminded a bit of a show like The Tick (live-action version), which had some over-the-top absurdity.
Which makes me think that if a show like The Orville works, then something like it could work in the superhero genre.

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #15 on: 09/15/2017 03:23 PM »
It didn't really sound like a conspiracy - it simply sounds like she has a huge secret
(Any guesses? She's now an Admiral herself? She's got a cybernetic body now? She's got a fatal illness? She's now a quasi-omnipotent super-being?)

It was a conspiracy, but not an ominous one--as the admiral said, he and her father were close friends. She asked him for a favor, to give her ex-husband a command so that he could redeem himself after he fell apart after the divorce. The admiral took a chance and gave him the command, and also gave her the assignment as first officer.

It's just a favor, and probably nothing more. In the hands of a better writer (MacFarlane wrote the episode) the whole thing could have been much more interesting. Instead, it started out with a lazy writer's trope about a guy catching his wife in bed with another man, which has been done on other shows this year. If they had just skipped that scene, the story arc would have been more believable and meaningful.

Offline zubenelgenubi

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1075
  • Arc to Arcturus, then Spike to Spica
  • Commonwealth of Virginia
  • Liked: 227
  • Likes Given: 617
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #16 on: 09/15/2017 08:42 PM »
A whole bunch of lackluster reviews:

<snip>

‘The Orville’ Review: Seth MacFarlane’s ‘Star Trek’ Rip-Off is Creatively, Morally, and Ethically Bankrupt
http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/the-orville-review-seth-macfarlane-star-trek-rip-off-1201874080/
by Liz Shannon Miller

<snip>
Quote
The 1990s “Star Trek” era, from “The Next Generation” to “Deep Space Nine” to “Voyager,” isn’t necessarily television that should be held up in comparison to the quote-unquote “Golden Age.” But it was well-produced for its time, and more importantly, nurtured some great storytelling and characters even while working within a largely standalone format. “DS9” was even an early and impactful example of how well serialized storytelling might work in genre programming, which led to “Battlestar Galactica,” “Lost,” and many other great shows."

<snip>

Rhetorical question for Ms. Miller:
Really?  If you're looking for broadcast television, science-fiction gold-standard of characters, settings, and storytelling in a strongly serial format, there can be only ONE: Babylon 5.  But you trot out DS9 as the example.

(And you use "impactful" as a word.)

(Side note: And then there are the suspicions that Paramount executives injected concepts from JMS' B5 pitch that they received and rejected into DS9--have those suspicions ever been confirmed or disproved?)

I wonder if Ms. Miller even heard of Babylon 5.

(I wonder if Mr. MacFarlane has even heard of Babylon 5.)

Advance apologies if I am too cranky about all this...it's my inner Mr. Wilson breaking out.
« Last Edit: 09/15/2017 08:54 PM by zubenelgenubi »
Support your local planetarium!

Offline AegeanBlue

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Raleigh
  • Liked: 92
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #17 on: 09/15/2017 08:46 PM »
It's very interesting on how the "conspiracy" and the (rather juvenile to be honest) jokes get discussed, yet the biggest logical fallacy of the episode is not: where the heck is the water, carbon dioxide and nutrients for the sequoia plant coming from? I do hope it goes for longer than "Powerless" did last season. The good thing about Sunday shows is less competition.

Offline Joris

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 348
  • Liked: 17
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #18 on: 09/15/2017 09:51 PM »
Babylon 5

That show had some truly awful acting and its visual effects aged horribly. So much that it's not really watchable without nostalgia goggles.

Any new serious Star Trek show is going to be compared to previous Star Trek shows, but also to other serious TV-shows from recent times. If a new Star Trek series came out now, with the same seriousness of previous series, people would compare it to Game of Thrones, breaking bad, etc. They would expect a top quality show, and question why redshirts are so prone to dying, why the main cast is immortal, why there is no sex, crime, love, hate, corruption, death? A new Star Trek series would feel really out of date and unrealistic if it didn't do these things, and it wouldn't feel like Star Trek if it did.

The recent movies don't deal with this because they're action movies.
The Seth Macfarlane creation doesn't deal with this because it's a sitcom situated on a starship.

IMO, a new sci-fi space series in space needs to get its source material from something that's more suited to contemporary serious TV drama. There is one literary source that would make for an excellent modern (HBO-style) drama, with technology, politics and intrigue already written:

Dune
JIMO would have been the first proper spaceship.

Offline Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 636
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #19 on: 09/15/2017 11:17 PM »
I just want to add that the aliens (Krill??)...are the worst shots in the universe..

I actually thought that was a Star Wars in-joke about Stormtroopers.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6960
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 611
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #20 on: 09/16/2017 07:56 AM »
At the risk of thread derailment, the SFX of Babylon 5 has aged a lot better than the pre-digital effects of the Trek original series. The original Trek often set the standard for cheesy acting. No-one cares; why? Because people appreciate the writing, which was quite often at the pinnacle of 1950s and 1960s sci-fi concepts and quality. For that reason, I think that Babylon 5 should also be judged by its story and its concepts as well as its execution. In that it has aged well and, given its influence on the Stargate and Battlestar Galactica franchises, it is worth a great deal of respect.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline Tomness

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • Into the abyss will I run
  • Liked: 25
  • Likes Given: 122
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #21 on: 09/16/2017 03:44 PM »
I liked it.... Hope they do well...

Offline Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 636
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #22 on: 09/16/2017 04:01 PM »
At the risk of thread derailment, the SFX of Babylon 5 has aged a lot better than the pre-digital effects of the Trek original series.

I have loaned my "Babylon 5" DVDs to younger co-workers (born late 90s or so), and they just won't watch it. They given them back laughing about how bad the effects are, saying it "looks like bad Nintendo" and "what, did they spend $1.99 on the special effects?". I tell them it isn't the effects that are important, it is the writing. No sale.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6960
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 611
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #23 on: 09/16/2017 04:05 PM »
Don't blame the show. Blame the modern entertainment industry that (thanks to morons like Michael Bay) have made 'blow stuff up along with headache-inducing fast motion' as the standard by which sci-fi is judged.
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline su27k

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
  • Liked: 391
  • Likes Given: 38
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #24 on: 09/17/2017 03:42 AM »
I have loaned my "Babylon 5" DVDs to younger co-workers (born late 90s or so), and they just won't watch it. They given them back laughing about how bad the effects are, saying it "looks like bad Nintendo" and "what, did they spend $1.99 on the special effects?". I tell them it isn't the effects that are important, it is the writing. No sale.

Did they start from season 1? The SFX got a lot better starting from season 2.

Back to Orville: It's actually not that bad, I'll give it a chance. I wish the humor and serious part are better integrated, like SG-1, right now it's pretty jarring when switching from one to the other.

Offline Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 636
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #25 on: 09/17/2017 02:36 PM »
Did they start from season 1? The SFX got a lot better starting from season 2.

I gave them the "Movies" set and told them to watch "The Gathering" and then Season 1.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9069
  • Liked: 1113
  • Likes Given: 757
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #26 on: 09/23/2017 02:19 AM »
I liked it a lot. It's funny and interesting at the same time. That's hard to do. The special effects are pretty good too.
« Last Edit: 09/23/2017 02:22 AM by yg1968 »

Offline KelvinZero

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3482
  • Liked: 456
  • Likes Given: 116
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #27 on: 09/24/2017 09:25 AM »
Now that I know what to expect, it is ok. Still would have been a lot better if it were actually Star Trek. The intentional similarity keeps reminding me it is actors on a set in a way that actually startrek or something completely different would not.

BTW*, Im watching a scifi spoof show called "people of earth". Nothing to do with space travel, it is alien abduction territory so not really relevant to this site but I was surprised to like it. The loser characters are strangely likeable. I have missed this connection to the characters from all the recent scifi series I have watched, including Orville.

Im always trying to figure out how to make a hardSF series work. Something character based like this could be a clue.. or possibly "Parks and recreation" in space? I have always wanted to see a hardSF where the scriptwriter remembered that the first requirement is that you care about the characters. Extending this to a hardSF procedural is even harder. Also I would like an alternative to grim hardSF.

(* that is to say, "rampantly off topic ramble")
« Last Edit: 09/24/2017 09:30 AM by KelvinZero »

Offline HVM

  • Member
  • Posts: 88
  • Finland
  • Liked: 84
  • Likes Given: 71
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #28 on: 09/24/2017 09:56 AM »
It's have clichés and looks ripped from Trek but isn't parody. 'Humor' is same level as in other MacFarlane shows. e.g. don't work at all; stories are weak or even borrowed from Trek... I don't know how show like this can survive when other sci-fi is level of Westworld and The Expanse.

Offline spacenut

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2123
  • East Alabama
  • Liked: 298
  • Likes Given: 191
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #29 on: 09/26/2017 02:46 AM »
Just watched The Orville, I think the only three episodes.  I like it better than Star Trek Discovery.  Discovery is too dark.   It immediately starts off with a war with the Klingons.  I thought Discovery was about Discovery of new planets and things.
 The Orville is an action comedy that is refreshing.  Kind of like the episodes of Enterprise with Dr. Phlox. 

Offline su27k

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
  • Liked: 391
  • Likes Given: 38
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #30 on: 09/26/2017 04:15 AM »
Did they start from season 1? The SFX got a lot better starting from season 2.

I gave them the "Movies" set and told them to watch "The Gathering" and then Season 1.

When I rewatch the series I usually starts with Season 2, since the SFX in season 1 is truly awful. And you start with Sheridan who I believe is the soul of B5.

Offline MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3752
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 717
  • Likes Given: 1337
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #31 on: 09/26/2017 05:47 AM »
I've watched the first two episodes of Discovery and the first few of The Orville. In my experienced opinion (seen all 700-odd Trek episodes and all movies and read dozens of Trek novels) - at this stage; they are both showing more promise than the first Seasons of all the Star trek shows; except the original!!

The Orville has a hard road to hoe - because it is part parody and part tribute to Star Trek. If it were more of a comedy or more of a drama, maybe it would work better... I'm unsure. But since it is finding it's way I would at this stage describe it as slightly weak rather than awful (it isn't) then it may have room for improvement. Even 'Babylon 5' - my favourite 'Space Opera' show ever - was not deemed to be a classic until I think the intrigue of it's main story was well underway by mid-season 2 or thereabouts.

In this day and age of instant gratification - real or perceived - we just don't seem to have the patience to let a TV show find it's feet or grow an audience. I know network executives and now 'the customer' (us) demand an instant classic, must-see, or binge-watching nirvana. But we're rarely going to get that anymore and I for one will watch a show I'm interested in and if it fails to hold my interest by about mid-season; then I'll reassess my viewing priorities. I know life is too short to watch bad TV, movies or music. Demand high standards, by all means.

When I watch Star Trek, I always have high hopes if not high-expectations. I'm seasoned and cynical enough not to have a rose-tinted view of my favourite(ish) set of TV shows ever. My favourite Trek show was Deep Space Nine because of it's huge, ambitious story-telling arc that had noble but nonetheless flawed and complex characters. And it had a dash of comedy, too at times. I don't think it was the best 'Trek show' - but I think it often rivaled the best 'Next Generation' episodes for being the best television of it's era.

...Which brings me to 'Discovery'. First of all - it aint your Grandpa's Trek!! The first couple episodes make this abundantly clear. I mentioned a 'rose tinted' glasses view a couple paragraphs ago. The Original Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise were products of their time. Nobody is doing, or deliberately should make a modern space opera show, exactly the way they did in 1987, 1993, the late 1990s or the early 2000s. No one! I fully realized this when I saw the JJ Abrams Star Trek reboot films from 2009 onwards - those films I both like and dislike in roughly equal measure. That's because - I swear to you - I endeavour bloody hard not to be an old-school, rose-tinted, nostalgia wussy 'fanboy'. We have modern special effects, modern censorship standards, 'modern acting', writing and direction, for better or worse. Modern cameras and cinematography techniques...

'Discovery' will have to play out it's agenda and character development with great thought and care. As I said - it is not an old TV show; it is a new one. That doesn't mean though that it cannot have the 'spirit of Star Trek' running through it's veins. Good writing and 'good heart' can bring that online, in time. I for one wont damn it because it doesn't have Shatner, Stewart or Michael Dorn in it. Although it would be really good to see those characters one more time - I don't live for it. If the reboot franchise falls over; and they bring back the T.N.G. timeframe and universe movies with Captain Riker or Worf - I'd be delighted. There's no reason it couldn't be at least good, if not great. But as I said - I don't hold my breath for it. It is almost all in the writing. Science fiction TV and films will fail if the power and logic and heart of the story doesn't work. But Trek, along with other famous space operas, will only survive in the long run if it evolves and grows - not puts out pale, repetitive carbon copies of itself.

Apart from my slight confusion about the current remolding of the Klingon race in 'Discovery' - I think I see a real glimmer of hope that something could really grow up out of this show - despite my reservations about it being a slightly unnecessary prequel. TNG, DS9 and Voyager took until their third seasons to find their way and become decent television shows. I don't think 'Discovery' will need that long...
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Offline WindnWar

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
  • South Carolina
  • Liked: 213
  • Likes Given: 1147
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #32 on: 09/28/2017 03:20 AM »
Having watched both series over the last couple days, I honestly have more hope for Orville than Discovery other than the fact it is on Fox and the cancellation bear runs rampant there. Even with the occasional bad humor. Episode three was surprising as it reminded me more of Trek than anything of recent Trek. Hoping it sticks around.

Discovery to me reminds me of Stargate Universe, taking a genre that while having plenty of serious moments also had its light hearted bits and instead just going as dark as possible. I'll keep watching to see where it goes but if it doesn't recapture some of what made Trek great by the end of the first season I won't bother continuing with it. 

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6960
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 611
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #33 on: 09/28/2017 09:40 AM »
I'm getting the impression that the negative critical reviews are due to a degree of genre confusion, much of the blame for which can be laid on the unknown team at Fox who created the show's trailers. We were asked to expect 'Family Guy in Space'. What we didn't expect was something close to the atmosphere of the original Star Trek with the humour turned up a couple of steps. If anything, it reminds me of the problems suffered by Futurama, a show that would have probably done a lot better if it was not crushed under the burden of being from the same team as The Simpsons.

Viewers, on the other hand, seem to have adapted quickly and their response has been overwhelmingly positive. One review on YouTube was headlined: "So, we have a new Star Trek... and it isn't called 'Star Trek'".

The question that now needs to be answered is: Will The Orville develop a viewer base large enough to survive in the cut-throat world of network television or, like Firefly, will it be a one season or less flash in the pan, fondly remembered by its' partisans but always to be mostly a 'what if...?'
« Last Edit: 09/28/2017 09:43 AM by Ben the Space Brit »
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8103
  • Australia
  • Liked: 2879
  • Likes Given: 687
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #34 on: 09/28/2017 10:32 AM »
Yeah, I just watched the first episode and don't know what the critics are talking about. It had a nice Galaxy Quest vibe.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Offline mheney

  • The Next Man on the Moon
  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 734
  • Silver Spring, MD
  • Liked: 340
  • Likes Given: 190
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #35 on: 09/28/2017 04:03 PM »
Now that I know what to expect, it is ok. Still would have been a lot better if it were actually Star Trek. The intentional similarity keeps reminding me it is actors on a set in a way that actually startrek or something completely different would not.

BTW*, Im watching a scifi spoof show called "people of earth". Nothing to do with space travel, it is alien abduction territory so not really relevant to this site but I was surprised to like it. The loser characters are strangely likeable. I have missed this connection to the characters from all the recent scifi series I have watched, including Orville.

Im always trying to figure out how to make a hardSF series work. Something character based like this could be a clue.. or possibly "Parks and recreation" in space? I have always wanted to see a hardSF where the scriptwriter remembered that the first requirement is that you care about the characters. Extending this to a hardSF procedural is even harder. Also I would like an alternative to grim hardSF.

(* that is to say, "rampantly off topic ramble")

Yes to People of Earth, on TBS!!!   Season 2 just finished.   And I'm liking The Orville so far; iffy on Discovery.

Offline Ronpur50

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1901
  • Brandon, FL
  • Liked: 708
  • Likes Given: 1466
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #36 on: 09/29/2017 07:39 PM »
I really enjoyed this weeks episode.  The generational ship premise may have been done before, but this was very well presented.  And I love the cast and their interactions.  It is really exciting me. 

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #37 on: 09/29/2017 09:36 PM »
I really dislike Seth McFarlane, and do we really need dick jokes multiple times in every episode? That said, this article makes some good points.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2017/09/29/seth-macfarlanes-the-orville-is-the-star-trek-show-fans-have-been-waiting-for/#564e92da6da8

"By not having a budget (or requirements) for wall-to-wall spectacle, the hour-long Fox show is forced to focus on character, chemistry, sci-fi plotting and moral debates that have partially defined Gene Roddenberry’s property for generations. Yes, to a certain extent it’s fan fiction, but then so is so much of our current pop culture entertainment. But by being a network television show, it is forced to be the kind of Star Trek that fans claim the recent movies have neglected in favor of four-quadrant blockbuster thrills. The Orville is not a spoof, but rather a straight-faced Trek show with characters who are funny and can laugh at funny events."


Offline KelvinZero

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3482
  • Liked: 456
  • Likes Given: 116
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #38 on: 09/29/2017 11:23 PM »
I was thinking about the fan aspect. I know there was some big hoo-ha about some clash between the startrek owners and some fan fic film.

I think it would have been an interesting strategy to negotiate some sort of program like this as a compromise. It is recognised as just fan-fic, giving it more freedom, but can freely borrow whatever they like and the franchise still gets their cut.. also could keep cramming fan cgi in the background

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #39 on: 09/30/2017 04:20 AM »
Just got caught up on watching the rest of The Orville, and the latest episode 4 was particularly interesting -- a visit to Cypress Corners on Earthship Ark, a la Starlost! I noticed the episode also featured actor James Morrison, who played ace pilot Col. McQueen on Space: Above & Beyond. Also, the recording of Dural seemed eerily like actor Liam Neeson - was it?

The style of the series seems a little unconventional relative to what's come before, in that it's mixing deadpan humor with space sci-fi adventure that's sometimes seriously attempting to be thought-provoking in its own right, like Star Trek, etc before it. I guess Seth has yearnings in both directions. In a way, the interjections of juvenile humor help to disarm potential woodenness, pomposity and preachiness. But at least they stop short of breaking the 4th Wall, like Deadpool.

Watching Elon Musk's latest talk at IAC the other day, I noticed that there's a bit of a physical resemblance between himself and Seth MacFarlane. I bet Seth could play an Elon-style character half decently, if he tried it.
« Last Edit: 09/30/2017 06:06 AM by sanman »

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #40 on: 09/30/2017 06:07 AM »
Apparently, next week's episode has Charlize Theron guest-starring:


Offline MATTBLAK

  • Elite Veteran & 'J.A.F.A'
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3752
  • 'Space Cadets' Let us; UNITE!! (crickets chirping)
  • New Zealand
  • Liked: 717
  • Likes Given: 1337
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #41 on: 09/30/2017 10:52 AM »
I just watched the first four episodes of The Orville with my Wife - we are both seasoned and probably cynical SF fans - and we rather enjoyed them. The affectionate parody aspect of Star Trek is definitely a factor, but that is not getting in the way of enjoying the characters and their interplay. The plots so far, while not wholly original, are not treading on the toes of cliches - they are in fact, dancing lightly with those cliches; and wringing some enjoyment out of them one last time.

I'd say Seth McFarlane's gamble is paying off. I hope this fun little show doesn't end up like another famous casualty of Fox executives. Some of you will know what I'm talking about...
« Last Edit: 09/30/2017 10:53 AM by MATTBLAK »
"Those who can't, Blog".   'Space Cadets' of the World - Let us UNITE!! (crickets chirping)

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #42 on: 09/30/2017 05:47 PM »
Apparently, the voice of Dural in Ep4 was indeed Liam Neeson. Charlize Theron's in the next Episode 5, and Patrick Stewart also being a friend of MacFarlane's is also going to make an appearance. Jon Favreau directed Ep1,  and Ep 5 is directed by Jonathan Frakes. Talk about a royal sendoff.

https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2017/05/16/orville-packed-star-trek-alums/


« Last Edit: 09/30/2017 06:22 PM by sanman »

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #43 on: 09/30/2017 11:35 PM »
https://trekmovie.com/2017/08/31/6-takeaways-from-a-set-visit-to-the-orville/

6 Takeaways From A Set Visit To ‘The Orville’
| August 31, 2017 | By: Anthony Pascale 235 comments so far

TrekMovie was invited to the Fox lot to visit the sets of The Orville, Seth MacFarlane’s new sci-fi dramedy due to premiere on September 10th. The event was done last week, a day after they wrapped the 13-episode first season. The sets were kept up an extra day for the assembled online media to tour and talk with some of the people who make the show happen. TrekMovie has been covering this show because it is a clear homage to Star Trek and because a number of Star Trek vets are working on the show, and like many Trek fans, we find it interesting. I came away from the event with a few takeaways that stood out.   
Fox is sparing no expense

Of course the first thing as a Trekkie you sense when walking onto the sets of Fox’s The Orville is how familiar it feels. There is no doubt that you could be on board a Starfleet ship from the 24th century. But once you get past that, the main thing that strikes you is the scale of the main U.S.S. Orville sets which are built on two levels. The lower level has corridors, crew quarters, captain’s quarters, captain’s office, sickbay and the mess hall. The upper level has more corridors, more quarters, a meeting/briefing room, the second level of the captain’s quarters (yes he has a two-story cabin) and the bridge. And there were also other stages housing engineering, shuttle bay and a swing set for alien ships and settings we didn’t even get to.

Beyond the size, there is also an impressive amount of detail and technology being used. For example they use the same kind of on-set display technology utilized for Rogue One (basically a massive screen of LEDs) to allow shots on the bridge to have visual effects displayed practically, such as when the ship is at warp (sorry, “at quantum”). And speaking of visual effects, producer Jason Clark revealed they are doing a total of 3,800 effect shots over the season.

And beyond the sets and VFX as you talk to the various behind the scenes people you can start adding things up like how costume designer Joseph Porro talking about how they literally shipped in two tons of fabric from China. Or makeup designer Howard Berger (Oscar winning co-founder of the KNB EFX Group, probably best known for The Walking Dead) talking about how they did 5,000 different prosthetic applications during the first season. One of the reasons for this quantity of work is that the show is episodic so very little gets re-used as the crew visits a new world (with new creatures, sets, props, etc.) every episode. As producer Clark noted “It’s like we did 13 movies.”

These stairs aren’t for show, The Orville set is a double-decker
It looks like TNG for a reason

Just looking at promos for The Orville, many Trek fans have noticed similarities with Trek and specifically Star Trek: The Next Generation. Of course there are a number of high profile TNG vets working behind the scenes including Brannon Braga and Andre Bormanis. And Jonathan Frakes even directed an episode, but it goes deeper than that. Seth MacFarlane even hired Marvin Rush (veteran of TNG, VOY, DS9 and ENT) as the director of photography. Rush said that MacFarlane explicitly wanted The Orville “to feel like Next Generation…he wanted that vibe.” Rush also noted he is using ARRI Alexa Mini camera which he feels is the best digital camera to get a cinema feel to replicate the look of shooting on film as he did while on Star Trek.

And the connections go beyond hiring Trek veterans. Production designer Stephen Lineweaver noted that when it came to designing the sets, Seth definitely had a “Next Gen sensibility” to the approach for the designs. This kind of thing even flowed into hiring production staff. Editor Tom Costantino – a genuine Trek fan and apparently regular reader of TrekMovie.com – told me that he feels he nailed his final interview with MacFarlane when he made a reference to a TNG episode, specifically “Chain of Command, Part 2.”

You could mistake these bridge consoles for a Federation ship
Seth is a perfectionist

The Orville is something that has been a dream for Seth MacFarlane since his childhood, and so he is paying attention to every detail of the show. Pretty much everyone you talk to will tell you how much passion MacFarlane puts into The Orville, and how he works closely on every aspect – very, very closely in fact. Costume designer Porro said that they went through 75 different prototypes for the uniforms until Seth signed off, noting “It was a challenge.” Makeup designer Howard Berger told a similar story of how it took three months to finalize the look of the character Bortus to the point where finally he took a clay mold into Seth’s office and they worked it out together as the shooting date approached.

As for the U.S.S. Orville itself, producer Jason Clark revealed they went through 140 different designs of the ship with 13 different designers including Ryan Church (who designed the U.S.S. Enterprise for J.J. Abrams) and Andrew Probert (designer for Star Trek: The Motion Picture and Star Trek: The Next Generation). However, apparently nothing was working for MacFarlane so in the end Seth made his own doodle sketch of the ship which was then finalized by concept artist Matt Tkocz.

The final shooting model for the U.S.S. Orville – yes they use a real model
Don’t expect goofy looking aliens

The general consensus from the writers and crew of The Orville is that the humor on the show comes from situations and character moments and not silly looking things. The remit for those designing the show is like any serious sci-fi movie or series. Listening to the various designers, you would never know they were talking about a show with a strong element of comedy. They all talk about creating a believable futuristic science fiction universe with practical props, costumes, makeup and sets. As noted by makeup designer Howard Berger, “everybody is very immersed in this universe.”

Berger told me that when it comes to his department, they aren’t using the aliens the crew meets each week to create the laughs by the way they look. “I never wanted anything to feel goofy or cartoony.” said Berger, “I wanted it to feel real. They are designed so that you believe they exist.” You get a similar story from the prop department. Not only are they not going for laughs, Bryan Rodgers noted that when designing the weapons for the recurring main bad guys (the Krill), the objective was to give them “a scary looking feel to create a tension and fear in anyone who sees them coming.”

Some of the makeup prognostics used for The Orville
There is a science to it

One of the Trek vets on the show is Andre Bormanis who began his career as a science advisor for Star Trek: The Next Generation before moving on to writing and producing in the franchise. He is also wearing those many hats for The Orville and he is again striving to make this futuristic sci-fi show grounded in real science. When it comes to Orville science, they are paying attention to the little things, such as how the wall paneling on the ship is supposed to be a form of plant life that acts as CO² scrubber.

Bormanis has written a whole show bible about the various science elements within the universe of The Orville. A good amount is dedicated to the ship. On The Orville you don’t have a warp drive, but you do have a “quantum drive.” And for this faster than light sci-fi ship they are using the theories of physicist Miguel Alcubierre who has postulated a form of drive that works within Einstein’s general relativity. And this theory’s call for torus rings are what is behind the rings of the U.S.S. Orville itself. They have even named the exotic matter that is required for such a drive “Dysonium” after physicist Freeman Dyson.

This rendition of the Alcubierre drive effect shows how the U.S.S. Orville got its shape
The Orville is trying to do something different

One thing is clear from talking to all the people behind the show and that is a deep commitment and a passion to create something different for television today. They want to tell serious sci-fi stories with a message of hope and optimism. They want to to make people think through allegory while making them laugh through relatable characters and situations. As noted by Jason Clark “no one is doing this now.”

Audiences who tune into The Orville will not find it packed with gags like MacFarlane’s Family Guy. And even though this is an hour-long show set on a space ship, it really isn’t like The Expanse or even Star Trek: The Next Generation. For The Orville, they want to find a sweet spot in between, and the closest analogy they come up with is M*A*S*H, a half-hour comedy about Army doctors in the Korean War which has been off the air since 1983.

A word you hear a lot from the writers and producers on the show is “balance.” That will be the key for The Orville. Can they strike that balance and find a sweet spot of making a fun (and explicitly funny), optimistic, entertaining, exciting and thoughtful sci-fi show? From what I have seen so far, this show has that potential. Hopefully Fox can give them time to find their way and find an audience for new kind of show that still feels familiar to fans of Star Trek.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #44 on: 10/01/2017 11:13 PM »
Something I appreciated was not just the show's overall production values, but also the music in particular, which is really well done and also very evocative of various famous pieces from Star Trek.
(Given Seth's own singing talents, I wonder how long it will be before he does a singing number on the show?)


Another thing I do wonder about is - will they get sued?
The show clearly owes a lot to the Star Trek franchise, and many resemblances are intentional rather than coincidental. Even if they claim spoofing rights, the show isn't entirely a spoof/parody, but is also a sincere emulator in the genre. (A fan-fiction, even?)

Right now The Orville is just starting out - but what happens if/when they become a big hit, and start to rake in more and more money? Will Paramount, or others like CBS, begin to see this as happening at their expense?
The more you're worth, the more you're worth suing.

George Lucas famously sued Universal over Battlestar Galactica by claiming they ripped off various ideas from Star Wars (ie. the ILM special fx, certain scifi story elements, etc). Even if he didn't have the strongest case, his persistent legal action certainly imposed costs.

On the other hand, with Star Trek's own Brannon Braga being an executive producer for The Orville, maybe the show has the back-channel ties to the Trek franchise owners to get more latitude than others might get.

http://comicbook.com/startrek/2017/08/16/the-orville-star-trek-brannon-braga/

Offline Ben the Space Brit

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6960
  • A spaceflight fan
  • London, UK
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 611
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #45 on: 10/02/2017 09:24 AM »
Any lawsuit against The Orville's producers for CBS (the current TM owner for Star Trek) would have to prove a deliberate use of their trademarked properties for profit without license.

'Deliberate artistic or conceptual similarity' has succeeded before (George Harrison's 'My Sweet Lord' was found to have deliberately copied the melody of an earlier song). However, proving it would be difficult and I get the feeling that Fox would take delight in being seen to take down the mighty Star Trek machine for a variety of reasons, only some of them commercial.

The problem is, at what point does protecting a trademark prevent a competitor from legitimately trying to move into a market? At what point does protecting artistic ownership protect shoddy workmanship from its consequences?
"Oops! I left the silly thing in reverse!" - Duck Dodgers

~*~*~*~

The Space Shuttle Program - 1981-2011

The time for words has passed; The time has come to put up or shut up!
DON'T PROPAGANDISE, FLY!!!

Offline hektor

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1255
  • Liked: 19
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #46 on: 10/02/2017 11:31 AM »
So if I understand well, they took the shape of their spacecraft propulsive elements from a graphical illustration in the Alcubierre drive entry on wikipedia ?

Offline SpacedX

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Gatineau
  • Liked: 8
  • Likes Given: 503
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #47 on: 10/02/2017 02:17 PM »
So if I understand well, they took the shape of their spacecraft propulsive elements from a graphical illustration in the Alcubierre drive entry on wikipedia ?

It has a resemblance to that drawing and that's what I thought already.

I like the show. It's a little slow at times but some of the stuff is good and, in some ways, it's more like Star Trek than Star Trek:Discovery.


Offline RonM

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Atlanta, Georgia USA
  • Liked: 988
  • Likes Given: 761
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #48 on: 10/02/2017 03:39 PM »
While the Orville has a lot of resemblance to ST:TNG, it's really common generic space opera elements. Read some old SF novels or watch Forbidden Plant and you'll see what I mean. Nothing here that would lead to a successful lawsuit.

Offline Davp99

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • Fall River, MA
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #49 on: 10/02/2017 03:48 PM »
Tough room....

I actually Liked it...& Hate CBS for their $10 a monthly Star Trek Discovery Klingon Show......Nice try, Not this Guy...
You Only Live Twice

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8103
  • Australia
  • Liked: 2879
  • Likes Given: 687
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #50 on: 10/02/2017 09:14 PM »
That episode three... wow. Classic sci-fi.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #51 on: 10/06/2017 06:47 AM »
Latest episode wasn't too bad -- at least they're covering all the tropes.

And the humor seems to be finding its footing.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #52 on: 10/13/2017 06:26 AM »
Episode 6 was another particularly good episode - with an ending to ponder (echoes of TNG or DS9)

The Krill aesthetically remind me a lot of the Jem'Hadar -- I wonder if the similarity was deliberate?
(Also possibly shades of Covenant from Halo)

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Jem%27Hadar

Again the mix of wacky humor juxtaposed with serious or straight action is getting better.

This show definitely offers an interesting yet irreverent ride (be sure to fill the tank before coming back, Unbeliever)
« Last Edit: 10/13/2017 07:30 AM by sanman »

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 3468
  • Likes Given: 578
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #53 on: 10/13/2017 07:02 PM »
What Orville has that recent Star Trek lacks, is optimism, and just plain fun, wrapped around some decent makes-you-ponder Sci Fi storytelling.  I've found something terrific about almost every episode since the pilot.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 10/13/2017 07:02 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #54 on: 10/14/2017 08:55 AM »
I see people comparing this show with MASH - mainly because both mixed comedy with drama. But remember that MASH at least had a laugh track, as most other comedies have. Seth MacFarlane's shows, such as Family Guy, have never had any laugh track to identify their funny moments, and in the same vein neither does The Orville. It's completely left to viewers to recognize when a joke has just happened, even a hipster in-joke like a reference to the TV show Friends. That puts some viewers at a disadvantage, if they aren't necessarily as culturally savvy or as quick to see certain jokes. The whole reason the laugh track was invented was to help everyone to know when to laugh, so everyone could do it together and not miss out on the mirth.

What I notice is that they seem to be recalibrating their use of humor to move more towards sight-gags and other jokes which are more universally identifiable, so that more people can recognize them and laugh together, instead of remaining clueless that something funny has occurred.

Offline Oli

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2103
  • Liked: 374
  • Likes Given: 55
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #55 on: 10/14/2017 03:53 PM »

I like this show as well, the humor is hit and miss though. The 3 aliens on the crew are the best part.

Offline schaban

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Liked: 17
  • Likes Given: 17
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #56 on: 10/14/2017 06:58 PM »
I never watch star trek and not planing to (for some reason doesn't click with me), but I like Orville.
So, I'm curious, if there any episode, or story, or premise, or anything else (with exception of costumes, decorations and effects) could be traced back to Star Trek?

I wasn't able to find any sites devoted to this as well. Would appreciate if someone shares the link...

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #57 on: 10/14/2017 07:03 PM »
I never watch star trek and not planing to (for some reason doesn't click with me), but I like Orville.
So, I'm curious, if there any episode, or story, or premise, or anything else (with exception of costumes, decorations and effects) could be traced back to Star Trek?

I wasn't able to find any sites devoted to this as well. Would appreciate if someone shares the link...

Do you mean things on The Orville that can be traced back to Star Trek? Look at the writing and producing staff. Lots of Trek veterans there.

Offline schaban

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Liked: 17
  • Likes Given: 17
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #58 on: 10/14/2017 07:42 PM »
I never watch star trek and not planing to (for some reason doesn't click with me), but I like Orville.
So, I'm curious, if there any episode, or story, or premise, or anything else (with exception of costumes, decorations and effects) could be traced back to Star Trek?

I wasn't able to find any sites devoted to this as well. Would appreciate if someone shares the link...

Do you mean things on The Orville that can be traced back to Star Trek? Look at the writing and producing staff. Lots of Trek veterans there.

something like that, yes.

Here's an example of what I tried to find out: was there anything on Star Trek, resembling time accelerator from Orville episode 1? in what context?
Another example: was there any Star Trek episode where someone from Enterprise was abducted by more advanced species?

Offline eric z

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 285
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #59 on: 10/14/2017 08:02 PM »
 Yes, there are plenty of advanced creatures hijacking Kirk and the gang; the episode with the god-like Apollo and the episode with the spoiled-harpsichord player come to mind. The one where Kirk and an alien commander who looks like a upright alligator with a golf-ball head duking it out for the survival of their species;  man, there's a million of 'em.... 8)

Offline schaban

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Liked: 17
  • Likes Given: 17
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #60 on: 10/14/2017 08:12 PM »
Yes, there are plenty of advanced creatures hijacking Kirk and the gang; the episode with the god-like Apollo and the episode with the spoiled-harpsichord player come to mind. The one where Kirk and an alien commander who looks like a upright alligator with a golf-ball head duking it out for the survival of their species;  man, there's a million of 'em.... 8)
thank you.

Offline eric z

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 285
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #61 on: 10/14/2017 08:46 PM »
 My wife just mentioned some more: The one with a western twist at the OK Corral/ The pilot with Capt.Pike/ the one with the white-haired natives[ controlled a la Wizard of Oz-style, IIRC]/ the one with a magician-wiz type guy and a black-cat lady who turn into disintegrating squidly-creatures at the end/ the one with the creatures that [paraphrasing Spock] are to us as we are to the Amoeba/ the one that has to be laughed out of existence...
 Brain-freeze, need a minute! :-[
 The one where the ship gets towed by a bald-little guy with a toothy big grin, and Kirk leaves a crew member with him to have a cultural-exchange. Resisting the temptation to peak at the box-set. :D
« Last Edit: 10/14/2017 09:32 PM by eric z »

Offline eric z

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 285
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #62 on: 10/14/2017 09:01 PM »
 Come on everybody, help us out here! Cloud-force that captures ship-wrecked guy and keeps him around for company/ what's that one called where Lincoln and the good guys fight historic bad-guys/ The mute empath girl who is being fine-tuned by interacting with McCoy and the guys/ The one with the high-speed girl buzzing around/ The Horta didn't capture them , but it certainly had them on-the-run!
 The salt-cube episode/ Charlie-X/ uh, time for a soju break! For a change-of-pace, how 'bout the one where the crew go back-in-time and capture an F-104 pilot [ personal fave episode]. ;D
 Oh yeah, "Spock's Brain"! Wife-"That's a classic..."
« Last Edit: 10/14/2017 09:08 PM by eric z »

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #63 on: 10/14/2017 10:15 PM »
Here's an example of what I tried to find out: was there anything on Star Trek, resembling time accelerator from Orville episode 1? in what context?
Another example: was there any Star Trek episode where someone from Enterprise was abducted by more advanced species?

There have been so many Star Trek episodes that "Star Trek did it" should be a meme. Yes, to both your questions. Right off the bat, advanced aging was dealt with in the original series episode "The Deadly Years":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deadly_Years

I know that's not exactly the same thing as accelerated time, but it's the first one that came to mind. As far as someone from the Enterprise being abducted by an advanced species, that was also an original series episode, "By Any Other Name" with the Kelvans:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/By_Any_Other_Name

That one also featured a species that moved at high speed so that everybody else seemed to be moving extremely slowly.

Here you go (you're welcome):


« Last Edit: 10/14/2017 10:25 PM by Blackstar »

Offline eric z

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 228
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 285
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #64 on: 10/14/2017 11:38 PM »
 Thanks, Blackstar- the high-speed buzzing-around girl! Great screensaver!

Offline Ronpur50

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1901
  • Brandon, FL
  • Liked: 708
  • Likes Given: 1466
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #65 on: 10/15/2017 12:12 AM »
There was an animated Star Trek that had some crew members put on display in an alien zoo.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #66 on: 10/15/2017 12:53 AM »
I never watch star trek and not planing to (for some reason doesn't click with me), but I like Orville.
So, I'm curious, if there any episode, or story, or premise, or anything else (with exception of costumes, decorations and effects) could be traced back to Star Trek?

I wasn't able to find any sites devoted to this as well. Would appreciate if someone shares the link...


If you look at Episode 4 of the The Orville (Title: "If the Stars Should Appear"), the Captain and his team go onboard a large Worldship ("bio-vessel") containing an entire community of people living under an authoritarian theocracy, who don't even know they're on a large ship.






This is reminiscent of a Star Trek episode called "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky".




« Last Edit: 10/15/2017 01:49 AM by sanman »

Offline schaban

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 105
  • Liked: 17
  • Likes Given: 17
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #67 on: 10/15/2017 01:48 AM »
Thank you all. Very interesting

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #68 on: 10/15/2017 01:27 PM »
There was an animated Star Trek that had some crew members put on display in an alien zoo.

That story has actually been done lots of times. The original Star Trek pilot, "The Cage," did that story. I think The Twilight Zone did that story. Futurama also did it. The Orville is not very original or groundbreaking when it comes to stories.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #69 on: 10/15/2017 02:28 PM »
That story has actually been done lots of times. The original Star Trek pilot, "The Cage," did that story. I think The Twilight Zone did that story. Futurama also did it. The Orville is not very original or groundbreaking when it comes to stories.

Nor does it really have to be that ground-breaking story-wise, given the dearth of comparably stimulating scifi currently on TV today. Just like retirement of Shuttle exposed a gap that let Musk jump in to fill the breach, likewise the shortcomings of current scifi franchises (including current Star Trek) has created an opening which MacFarlane is now jumping in to fill in a timely way with The Orville. Some are now describing the new show as "Star Trek without a stick up its butt", given its looser and more flexible style within the conventions of the genre, and its inclusion of humor.

I hope that the quality of the writing continues to be high and goes higher still. Maybe it will cause the rest of the entertainment industry to sit up and take notice.

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 3468
  • Likes Given: 578
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #70 on: 10/15/2017 03:49 PM »
The Orville is not very original or groundbreaking when it comes to stories.
I agree with those who see Orville as Seth McFarlane's homage - love letter even - to Star Trek (the Original Series specifically).  Obviously, Seth uses many Gene Roddenberry inventions, but I don't remember TOS doing an episode involving the ethics of an infant sex change operation!

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 10/15/2017 03:53 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 636
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #71 on: 10/15/2017 05:32 PM »
Here's an example of what I tried to find out: was there anything on Star Trek, resembling time accelerator from Orville episode 1? in what context?

Yes, several, but the closest is the "Next Generation" episode titled "Timescape", an anomaly causes time to move at different rates in different parts of a Shuttle, and we see an apple (I think) turn rotten in a matter of seconds.

There is also a "Voyager" episode in which another anomaly causes different parts of the starship to be moving at different rates through time. The Doctor responds to an emergency call in the mess hall but arrives there before the emergency happens.

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #72 on: 10/15/2017 06:18 PM »
That story has actually been done lots of times. The original Star Trek pilot, "The Cage," did that story. I think The Twilight Zone did that story. Futurama also did it. The Orville is not very original or groundbreaking when it comes to stories.

Nor does it really have to be that ground-breaking story-wise, given the dearth of comparably stimulating scifi currently on TV today. Just like retirement of Shuttle exposed a gap that let Musk jump in to fill the breach, likewise the shortcomings of current scifi franchises (including current Star Trek) has created an opening which MacFarlane is now jumping in to fill in a timely way with The Orville. Some are now describing the new show as "Star Trek without a stick up its butt", given its looser and more flexible style within the conventions of the genre, and its inclusion of humor.

I hope that the quality of the writing continues to be high and goes higher still. Maybe it will cause the rest of the entertainment industry to sit up and take notice.

You worked SpaceX into this discussion? You really couldn't find anyplace else on this board to discuss SpaceX?


Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #73 on: 10/15/2017 06:34 PM »
You worked SpaceX into this discussion? You really couldn't find anyplace else on this board to discuss SpaceX?

Haha, sorry about that  ;) - one could argue that MacFarlane is trying to disrupt the TV scifi industry with his new offering. On the other hand, he's using established fiction pulled from various sources, and recombining it in a somewhat original way.

Oh well, at least he's doing this without trying to run 3 different TV shows at once.  ;D

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #74 on: 10/16/2017 03:32 PM »
given the dearth of comparably stimulating scifi currently on TV today.

I don't get this. I looked it up just to make sure I understood the word you were using:

dearth
noun:

    a scarcity or lack of something.


How could you argue that? There has actually been quite a bit of good sci-fi on television lately, getting lots of praise. Just off the top of my head:

-The Expanse
-Westworld
-Black Mirror
-Stranger Things
-Orphan Black
-Rick and Morty


There's no shortage of good science fiction on TV. There's also a fair amount of junk as well.

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9069
  • Liked: 1113
  • Likes Given: 757
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #75 on: 10/16/2017 03:42 PM »
I agree with him. There is not that much good space syfy. I am so desperate for sci-fi, that I will watch almost anything space-related: killjoy (bad), the 100 (really bad; I have stopped watching it that).

I like the Orville for the most part but it's not very subtle anti-religion messages are annoying.
« Last Edit: 10/16/2017 05:21 PM by yg1968 »

Offline edkyle99

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12679
    • Space Launch Report
  • Liked: 3468
  • Likes Given: 578
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #76 on: 10/16/2017 04:26 PM »
I like the Orville for the most part but it's not very subtle anti-religion messages are annoying.
Gene Roddennberry was a self-proclaimed atheist by most conventions (he said "I reject religion" at one point)*.  I believe there was an episode of TNG that had themes similar to the so-called controversial "If The Stars Should Appear”.  (The robot wonders about “the common impulse of biological life forms to attribute the origin of the universe to an omnipotent being".)

 - Ed Kyle

* Seth McFarlane is also an atheist. So was Arthur C. Clarke.  So was Isaac Asimov.  So were probably many of the other famous science fiction creators (except George Lucas, who said he is a "Buddhist Methodist", whatever that means).  It is SCIENCE fiction, after all.
« Last Edit: 10/16/2017 04:33 PM by edkyle99 »

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9069
  • Liked: 1113
  • Likes Given: 757
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #77 on: 10/16/2017 05:20 PM »
SCIENCE (fiction or not) doesn't imply atheism beliefs. Not all scientists are atheists. Besides McFarlane isn't a scientist. The show could do without the atheist preaching and his portrayal of religious people borders intolerance.
« Last Edit: 10/16/2017 05:30 PM by yg1968 »

Offline Thorny

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 636
  • San Angelo, Texas
  • Liked: 102
  • Likes Given: 76
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #78 on: 10/16/2017 06:23 PM »
Gene Roddennberry was a self-proclaimed atheist by most conventions (he said "I reject religion" at one point)*.

But Roddenberry also green-lit episodes like "Bread and Circuses" in which the reveal at the end was that the Christ story was happening again on another world (the 20th Century Roman planet.) And in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" when asked if humans still worship the Gods, Kirk tells Apollo "we find the one to be quite adequate." And the Enterprise had a chapel seen in "Balance of Terror".
« Last Edit: 10/16/2017 06:24 PM by Thorny »

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #79 on: 10/16/2017 07:45 PM »
But Roddenberry also green-lit episodes like "Bread and Circuses" in which the reveal at the end was that the Christ story was happening again on another world (the 20th Century Roman planet.) And in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" when asked if humans still worship the Gods, Kirk tells Apollo "we find the one to be quite adequate." And the Enterprise had a chapel seen in "Balance of Terror".

But the first two examples you provide fit into one of Roddenberry's themes that god really isn't a deity. I think Harlan Ellison had a oft-repeated quote about Star Trek: The Motion Picture where he derided it as a (paraphrasing) "typical Roddenberry story where they go in search of god and find out that it's a spaceship, or a computer."

The chapel, however, was not consistent with Roddenberry's view that humans would no longer "need" religion by the 23rd century.

There is an interesting history of all of this when you look at how various writers over the years reacted to Roddenberry's views. Probably the best known is how J. Michael Straczynski approached Babylon 5. JMS was himself an atheist, but believed that religion would still be important in the future. He was also very interested in how alien societies would practice religion. He mentioned this in interviews at the time (early 1990s) and said it was in response to Trek's approach. Also notable is that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine introduced a religious element as well. The producers thought that would be useful for storytelling, and they were no longer under Roddenberry's thumb for that series.

Offline sanman

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3771
  • Liked: 473
  • Likes Given: 7
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #80 on: 10/18/2017 09:15 AM »
given the dearth of comparably stimulating scifi currently on TV today.

I don't get this. I looked it up just to make sure I understood the word you were using:

dearth
noun:

    a scarcity or lack of something.


How could you argue that? There has actually been quite a bit of good sci-fi on television lately, getting lots of praise. Just off the top of my head:

-The Expanse
-Westworld
-Black Mirror
-Stranger Things
-Orphan Black
-Rick and Morty


There's no shortage of good science fiction on TV. There's also a fair amount of junk as well.

Okay, fair enough - I enjoyed Westworld and The Expanse, but they're not airing any fresh episodes right now - when I said "today", I guess I meant "right now". Also, those shows have a single continuity, and aren't episodic like The Orville is. Same with Discovery. That sort of limits your ability to do the interesting parables the way The Orville does.


There is an interesting history of all of this when you look at how various writers over the years reacted to Roddenberry's views. Probably the best known is how J. Michael Straczynski approached Babylon 5. JMS was himself an atheist, but believed that religion would still be important in the future. He was also very interested in how alien societies would practice religion. He mentioned this in interviews at the time (early 1990s) and said it was in response to Trek's approach. Also notable is that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine introduced a religious element as well. The producers thought that would be useful for storytelling, and they were no longer under Roddenberry's thumb for that series.

Back when the original Babylon5 pilot first aired (1992?), I emailed Stracyznski to ask him about it, and to my surprise he responded back. He told me that one of the key races in the show, the Minbari, were very spiritual and that 'Minbar' was a pulpit in a mosque.
« Last Edit: 10/18/2017 09:17 AM by sanman »

Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #81 on: 10/18/2017 05:14 PM »
Okay, fair enough - I enjoyed Westworld and The Expanse, but they're not airing any fresh episodes right now - when I said "today", I guess I meant "right now". Also, those shows have a single continuity, and aren't episodic like The Orville is. Same with Discovery. That sort of limits your ability to do the interesting parables the way The Orville does.

Is there even a definition of "right now" anymore? After all, many people are probably waiting until Discovery is over and they will then binge-watch all the episodes in a day (15 episodes are planned, and we just saw #5). And the new season of Stranger Things drops on Halloween. I think that we have a fair amount of pretty good science fiction that is happening now, even if we're between seasons on some things.

Discovery is not very episodic--it's mostly a story arc. That's the fashion these days. But there's a range of ways that you can plot a series. Remember that DS9 and other sci-fi series did overall story arcs with stand-alone episodes scattered among them. Even The Orville is implying a story arc with the Krill. We're learning more about them with each episode, and they'll probably do some kind of big revelation.


Online Blackstar

  • Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10843
  • Liked: 2345
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #82 on: 10/18/2017 05:21 PM »
Back when the original Babylon5 pilot first aired (1992?), I emailed Stracyznski to ask him about it, and to my surprise he responded back. He told me that one of the key races in the show, the Minbari, were very spiritual and that 'Minbar' was a pulpit in a mosque.

JMS was really one of the first TV show producers to directly interact with fans. He was certainly the first to do it on a regular basis. This eventually bit him in the butt when somebody (apparently a Trek fan) sent him a file, he opened it, and it wiped out much of his hard drive. I think he really backed off on communicating with "fans" then.

B5 is mostly forgotten now, but it really was different in a number of ways, including production. JMS set out an overall story arc for his entire series. He had to change a number of things along the way (for instance, his lead actor dropped out due to mental illness), but it really had a direction to it. The show had redemption arcs for some of its characters (note that in the first few episodes G'Kar is a playboy and a joke, and by the end of the series he is a noble and thoughtful character). It had a (brief) gay relationship. One character was an alcoholic. And it could be deeply gloomy at times. I think that it influenced a number of other shows in ways that are not always acknowledged.

Offline Davp99

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • Fall River, MA
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: The Orville premiere on Fox
« Reply #83 on: 10/23/2017 12:19 PM »
Favorite ST Movie..." The Voyage Home "   Where they Have Fun i.e. Kirk finally Says "Scotty Beam me Up "

Seth's Show Just hits the Funny Bone ....I Still Enjoy It ... ;) ;)
You Only Live Twice

Tags: