Author Topic: Satellite signals intelligence - recent  (Read 3070 times)

Offline gosnold

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Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« on: 08/20/2017 07:55 PM »
The intercept  has published an article about Pine Gap, with interesting information:
https://theintercept.com/2017/08/19/nsa-spy-hub-cia-pine-gap-australia/

The most interesting document is:
https://theintercept.com/document/2017/08/19/m7600-m8300-sigint-guide/
« Last Edit: 08/20/2017 08:13 PM by gosnold »

Online Skyrocket

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #1 on: 08/20/2017 09:01 PM »
The intercept  has published an article about Pine Gap, with interesting information:
https://theintercept.com/2017/08/19/nsa-spy-hub-cia-pine-gap-australia/

The most interesting document is:
https://theintercept.com/document/2017/08/19/m7600-m8300-sigint-guide/

Very Interesting.

A first impression:
So the joint replacement for the Mission 7500 (MERCURY) and Mission 7600 (ORION) satellites are the Mission 8300 satellites, which are also called ORION. The first of these was launched on 9 September 2003 (USA 171). Mission 8300 is a four satellite constellation.

Offline anik

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #2 on: 08/21/2017 08:05 AM »
There are 8200 serie satellites mentioned in there documents.

Online Skyrocket

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #3 on: 08/21/2017 10:01 AM »
There are some clues to the mission numbers. Correlated with the ORION satellite know to have been operated with Pine Gap (http://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-special-reports/the-sigint-satellites-of-pine-gap-conception-development-and-in-orbit-2/), this hints to following allocation:

Mission 7605 - US-903D = ORION 1 (USA 8 )
Mission 7606 - US-903E = ORION 2 (USA 48)
Mission 7607 - US-903F = ORION 3 (USA 110)
Mission 8301 - US-903H = ORION 5 (USA 171) - confirmed by the new documents
Mission 8303 - US-903J = ORION 7 (USA 223)
« Last Edit: 08/21/2017 10:02 AM by Skyrocket »

Offline Star One

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #4 on: 08/21/2017 10:47 AM »
Does the mission number change correlate with what is believed to be the change to Advanced Orion launches?
« Last Edit: 08/21/2017 11:07 AM by Star One »

Online Skyrocket

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #5 on: 08/21/2017 11:21 AM »
Does the mission number change correlate with what is believed to be the change to Advanced Orion launches?

Most identified the the switch to the Titan-IV with Orion-3 to be the change to advanced Orion with another possible generation change with the switch to the upgraded Delta-IV on the Orion-8 launch.

Now it is unclear to me, if Orion-3 and 4 are the first iteration of "advanced Orion" or if these belong to the same generation as Orion-1 and 2, although they used higher performance launchers. I will keep three Orion generations in my lists for now:
* Mission 7600 Orion-1 and 2 (STS IUS launched)
* Mission 7600 Orion-3 and 4 (Titan IV  launched)
* Mission 8300 Orion-5 onwards (Titan-IV, Delta-IV and upgraded Delta-IV)


Online Skyrocket

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #6 on: 08/21/2017 11:25 AM »
There are 8200 serie satellites mentioned in there documents.

I think, these might be newer generation HEO satellites. 8200 is likely not NEMESIS, as these are not used for pinpointing emitters, but to tap into satellite uplinks.

Offline anik

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #7 on: 08/21/2017 12:56 PM »
I think, these might be newer generation HEO satellites. 8200 is likely not NEMESIS, as these are not used for pinpointing emitters, but to tap into satellite uplinks

The document which mentioned 8200 satellites is undated. In other document is pointed the first 8300 satellite was launched in 2003. The first Trumpet was launched in 1994 - too early if we compare it with year of the first 8300 launch. The first Trumpet FO was launched in 2006 - close to the first 8300 launch. Nevertheless I think that 8200 satellites relate to Trumpet, not to Trumpet FO satellites.

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #8 on: 08/21/2017 01:11 PM »
I think, these might be newer generation HEO satellites. 8200 is likely not NEMESIS, as these are not used for pinpointing emitters, but to tap into satellite uplinks

The document which mentioned 8200 satellites is undated. In other document is pointed the first 8300 satellite was launched in 2003. The first Trumpet was launched in 1994 - too early if we compare it with year of the first 8300 launch. The first Trumpet FO was launched in 2006 - close to the first 8300 launch. Nevertheless I think that 8200 satellites relate to Trumpet, not to Trumpet FO satellites.

Trumpet and the Trumpet follow ons might still be in the same mission number sequence. Rhyolite/Aquacade/early Orions were all 7600 missions and Canyon/Chalet/Vortex/Mercury were all 7500 missions over several S/C generations.

Offline Jim

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #9 on: 08/21/2017 01:14 PM »
There are 8200 serie satellites mentioned in there documents.

I think, these might be newer generation HEO satellites. 8200 is likely not NEMESIS, as these are not used for pinpointing emitters, but to tap into satellite uplinks.

What about NROL-67?

Offline anik

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #10 on: 08/21/2017 01:27 PM »
Trumpet and the Trumpet follow ons might still be in the same mission number sequence. Rhyolite/Aquacade/early Orions were all 7600 missions and Canyon/Chalet/Vortex/Mercury were all 7500 missions over several S/C generations.

Sorry, I meant that a numbering of 8200 satellites has begun with Trumpet, not Trumpet FO. I agree with you that Trumpet FO (and Trumpet FO-2) satellites can continue 8200 numbering. 

What about NROL-67?

I think that 2014 is too late if we compare 8200 satellites with appearance of 8300 satellites in 2003.

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #11 on: 08/21/2017 01:33 PM »
Trumpet and the Trumpet follow ons might still be in the same mission number sequence. Rhyolite/Aquacade/early Orions were all 7600 missions and Canyon/Chalet/Vortex/Mercury were all 7500 missions over several S/C generations.

Sorry, I meant that a numbering of 8200 satellites has begun with Trumpet, not Trumpet FO. I agree with you that Trumpet FO (and Trumpet FO-2) satellites can continue 8200 numbering. 

What about NROL-67?

I think that 2014 is too late if we compare 8200 satellites with appearance of 8300 satellites in 2003.
Trumpet and the Trumpet follow ons might still be in the same mission number sequence. Rhyolite/Aquacade/early Orions were all 7600 missions and Canyon/Chalet/Vortex/Mercury were all 7500 missions over several S/C generations.

Sorry, I meant that a numbering of 8200 satellites has begun with Trumpet, not Trumpet FO. I agree with you that Trumpet FO (and Trumpet FO-2) satellites can continue 8200 numbering. 

What about NROL-67?

I think that 2014 is too late if we compare 8200 satellites with appearance of 8300 satellites in 2003.

I have not yet figured it out, how NROL-67 fits into this. Perhaps it is a geostationary component of Mission 8200.

Offline Star One

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #12 on: 08/21/2017 01:58 PM »
Trumpet and the Trumpet follow ons might still be in the same mission number sequence. Rhyolite/Aquacade/early Orions were all 7600 missions and Canyon/Chalet/Vortex/Mercury were all 7500 missions over several S/C generations.

Sorry, I meant that a numbering of 8200 satellites has begun with Trumpet, not Trumpet FO. I agree with you that Trumpet FO (and Trumpet FO-2) satellites can continue 8200 numbering. 

What about NROL-67?

I think that 2014 is too late if we compare 8200 satellites with appearance of 8300 satellites in 2003.

Do you agree that 8300 series are the Advanced Orion satellites?

Offline anik

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #13 on: 08/21/2017 02:06 PM »
Do you agree that 8300 series are the Advanced Orion satellites?

I think that all what we can say now on this subject is that 8300 Orion satellites have replaced earlier 7500 Mercury and 7600 Orion satellites.

Offline anik

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #14 on: 08/21/2017 03:24 PM »
I am trying to summarize info about numbering systems:

4000/4100/4300/4400/5100 - P-11
7050 - Bit
7100 - Poppy
7150 - Ferret
7200 - Aftrack
7500 - Mercury
7600 - Orion
7700 - Jumpseat
8200 - Trumpet(?)
8300 - Orion (since 2003)

Offline gosnold

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #15 on: 08/26/2017 06:48 PM »
I think, these might be newer generation HEO satellites. 8200 is likely not NEMESIS, as these are not used for pinpointing emitters, but to tap into satellite uplinks

The document which mentioned 8200 satellites is undated. In other document is pointed the first 8300 satellite was launched in 2003. The first Trumpet was launched in 1994 - too early if we compare it with year of the first 8300 launch. The first Trumpet FO was launched in 2006 - close to the first 8300 launch. Nevertheless I think that 8200 satellites relate to Trumpet, not to Trumpet FO satellites.

Trumpet and the Trumpet follow ons might still be in the same mission number sequence. Rhyolite/Aquacade/early Orions were all 7600 missions and Canyon/Chalet/Vortex/Mercury were all 7500 missions over several S/C generations.

The intercept document on program 8300 says that it is "the geostationary component of the IOSA". I think IOSA is Integrated Overhead Sigint Architecture. That means there is another component of the IOSA in another orbit. Since they changed mission number when introducing the 8300 even though they are still called Orion, they also probably switched the mission number of Trumpet to 8200 when doing the re-design for the IOSA.

« Last Edit: 08/26/2017 06:52 PM by gosnold »

Offline Star One

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #16 on: 08/26/2017 07:56 PM »
I think, these might be newer generation HEO satellites. 8200 is likely not NEMESIS, as these are not used for pinpointing emitters, but to tap into satellite uplinks

The document which mentioned 8200 satellites is undated. In other document is pointed the first 8300 satellite was launched in 2003. The first Trumpet was launched in 1994 - too early if we compare it with year of the first 8300 launch. The first Trumpet FO was launched in 2006 - close to the first 8300 launch. Nevertheless I think that 8200 satellites relate to Trumpet, not to Trumpet FO satellites.

Trumpet and the Trumpet follow ons might still be in the same mission number sequence. Rhyolite/Aquacade/early Orions were all 7600 missions and Canyon/Chalet/Vortex/Mercury were all 7500 missions over several S/C generations.

The intercept document on program 8300 says that it is "the geostationary component of the IOSA". I think IOSA is Integrated Overhead Sigint Architecture. That means there is another component of the IOSA in another orbit. Since they changed mission number when introducing the 8300 even though they are still called Orion, they also probably switched the mission number of Trumpet to 8200 when doing the re-design for the IOSA.

Does the mission number go with the task type rather than with a particular platform?

Offline Jim

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #17 on: 09/16/2017 07:42 PM »
Look what I came across

Online Skyrocket

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #18 on: 09/16/2017 07:54 PM »
Look what I came across
The PARCAE (a.k.a. NOSS) triplets on the MSD dispenser. The designation MSD-180 hints, that this is from the first launch, as the three PARCAEs of this launch were NRL-PL 181 to 183.

http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/noss-1.htm
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/noss-1_msd.htm

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Satellite signals intelligence - recent
« Reply #19 on: 09/16/2017 07:58 PM »
Look what I came across
The PARCAE (a.k.a. NOSS) triplets on the MSD dispenser. The designation MSD-180 hints, that this is from the first launch, as the three PARCAEs of this launch were NRL-PL 181 to 183.

http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/noss-1.htm
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/noss-1_msd.htm


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