Author Topic: Space Force  (Read 14054 times)


Offline Blackstar

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #41 on: 11/09/2017 01:15 PM »
The conference committee did not require the establishment of the Space Corps.

This really wasn't going to happen. If you're going to make a major change to the military's organization, you need to have a lot of discussions of that. I think they held one or two hearings. It certainly did not go into things like the horrible details of such a change like personnel and promotion policy, etc. This always struck me as a pet project of a congressman rather than something with widespread support in Congress. I was surprised that it got as far as it did, but sometimes that is deceptive and the leadership always knows that they're going to kill it in the conference committee.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #42 on: 11/09/2017 01:22 PM »
That said...

http://spacenews.com/space-reforms-coming-2018-ndaa-drops-legislative-bombshells-on-u-s-air-force/?utm_content=buffer4f3a3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

SNIP

The report specifically calls for “streamlining Air Force acquisition authorities, eliminating burdensome red tape, empowering a single accountable organization for space forces within the Air Force, placing renewed emphasis on the organization and management of space in the DoD, and holding the deputy secretary of defense responsible for the full and faithful execution of these improvements.”
« Last Edit: 11/09/2017 01:56 PM by Chris Bergin »

Offline tdperk

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #43 on: 11/10/2017 02:05 PM »
If anything a Space Force should be an offshoot of the Navy.  The Air Force has no experience running long term isolated platforms.

Wrong.   Thule, Shemya, Cavalier, Texas Towers, DEW line, etc

Those are nothing compared to submarine operations and were always within driving distance of assistance.

No, they weren't always within driving distance of assistance.  They had to in many cases plan to be out of physical access for weeks.

Offline AncientU

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #44 on: 11/10/2017 03:19 PM »
That said...

http://spacenews.com/space-reforms-coming-2018-ndaa-drops-legislative-bombshells-on-u-s-air-force/?utm_content=buffer4f3a3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

SNIP

The report specifically calls for “streamlining Air Force acquisition authorities, eliminating burdensome red tape, empowering a single accountable organization for space forces within the Air Force, placing renewed emphasis on the organization and management of space in the DoD, and holding the deputy secretary of defense responsible for the full and faithful execution of these improvements.”

The fact that space was abruptly taken out of Secretary of Air Force hands is not insignificant (possibly as large of step as possible this year).

Quote
Senior leaders had fought back the House space corps provision that would have effectively taken away from the Air Force its ownership of military space.

It’s a hollow victory, however. The 2018 NDAA is big on Pentagon reforms, across the board, but it hammered the Air Force especially hard.

Quote
The Air Force Space Command would be modeled after the Office of Naval Reactors, stressing deep technical expertise. The bill gives the commander of Air Force Space Command a six-year term.

The NDAA delivers a direct blow to Secretary of the Air Force Heather Wilson by stripping her of the role of top space adviser to the secretary of defense and diminishing her power to set budget priorities.
« Last Edit: 11/10/2017 03:19 PM by AncientU »
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Offline Jim

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #45 on: 11/10/2017 04:46 PM »
It is insignificant because it never was significant

Offline AncientU

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #46 on: 11/10/2017 08:28 PM »
It is insignificant because it never was significant

You are entitled to an opinion.  Article completely disagrees.

Quote
He called the NDAA a “clear rebuke of the current space organization within DoD and a lack of confidence in the Air Force leadership.”

On the removal of space oversight and budget functions from the secretary of the Air Force, Harrison tweeted: “Ouch.”
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline Jim

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #47 on: 11/15/2017 06:57 PM »
It is insignificant because it never was significant

You are entitled to an opinion.  Article completely disagrees.

Quote
He called the NDAA a “clear rebuke of the current space organization within DoD and a lack of confidence in the Air Force leadership.”

On the removal of space oversight and budget functions from the secretary of the Air Force, Harrison tweeted: “Ouch.”

Not an opinion.  Again, you are misinformed and don't understand the realities of the business.
The secretary of the Air Force was never really in charge. 
« Last Edit: 11/15/2017 06:58 PM by Jim »

Offline Rummy

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #48 on: 11/16/2017 08:43 PM »
It is insignificant because it never was significant

You are entitled to an opinion.  Article completely disagrees.

Quote
He called the NDAA a “clear rebuke of the current space organization within DoD and a lack of confidence in the Air Force leadership.”

On the removal of space oversight and budget functions from the secretary of the Air Force, Harrison tweeted: “Ouch.”

Not an opinion.  Again, you are misinformed and don't understand the realities of the business.
The secretary of the Air Force was never really in charge.

Jim is both right and wrong. SecAF wasn’t in charge, but it was a clear rebuke nonetheless.

Offline AncientU

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #49 on: 11/17/2017 05:44 PM »
It is insignificant because it never was significant

You are entitled to an opinion.  Article completely disagrees.

Quote
He called the NDAA a “clear rebuke of the current space organization within DoD and a lack of confidence in the Air Force leadership.”

On the removal of space oversight and budget functions from the secretary of the Air Force, Harrison tweeted: “Ouch.”

Not an opinion.  Again, you are misinformed and don't understand the realities of the business.
The secretary of the Air Force was never really in charge.

I think you don't really understand the US Constitution.  He/she is in charge -- only a militaristic world view makes you believe otherwise.  In your view, are the President (commander-in-chief) and Secretary of Defense also not really in charge?

When 'the realities of the business' forget who you work for, it can be called insubordination (or treason).
« Last Edit: 11/17/2017 05:45 PM by AncientU »
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline Jim

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #50 on: 11/17/2017 06:26 PM »

I think you don't really understand the US Constitution.  He/she is in charge -- only a militaristic world view makes you believe otherwise.  In your view, are the President (commander-in-chief) and Secretary of Defense also not really in charge?

When 'the realities of the business' forget who you work for, it can be called insubordination (or treason).

Again, another case where I know you don't really understand the US space program.    The topic was milspace and the fact that secretary of the Air Force was never really in charge of it.  It simply has to with assignments of tasks within the DOD and the fact the seat of power in Milspace was not with the SACAF.  And also, I never said that uniformed officer was in charge of Milspace, so your rant about the the US Constitution or a militaristic world view has no place in this conversation.

Step back and look at the world without a Spacex or anti Old Space filter and you will see how things work.
« Last Edit: 11/17/2017 06:34 PM by Jim »

Offline Lar

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #51 on: 11/19/2017 01:42 AM »
This seems confusing. Does the person who is in charge report up to the secretary of the Air Force? or to some other department? What is the line of control that leads to the presidency, or to Congress ?  Else I really am confused at what you mean.

I get that "in charge" might not apply in terms of knowledge of day to day operational details... but where does the buck stop?
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Offline Jim

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #52 on: 11/19/2017 02:47 AM »
This seems confusing. Does the person who is in charge report up to the secretary of the Air Force? or to some other department? What is the line of control that leads to the presidency, or to Congress ?  Else I really am confused at what you mean.

I get that "in charge" might not apply in terms of knowledge of day to day operational details... but where does the buck stop?
This seems confusing. Does the person who is in charge report up to the secretary of the Air Force? or to some other department? What is the line of control that leads to the presidency, or to Congress ?  Else I really am confused at what you mean.

I get that "in charge" might not apply in terms of knowledge of day to day operational details... but where does the buck stop?

NRO has most of the power

Offline Lar

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #53 on: 11/19/2017 11:00 PM »
This seems confusing. Does the person who is in charge report up to the secretary of the Air Force? or to some other department? What is the line of control that leads to the presidency, or to Congress ?  Else I really am confused at what you mean.

I get that "in charge" might not apply in terms of knowledge of day to day operational details... but where does the buck stop?
This seems confusing. Does the person who is in charge report up to the secretary of the Air Force? or to some other department? What is the line of control that leads to the presidency, or to Congress ?  Else I really am confused at what you mean.

I get that "in charge" might not apply in terms of knowledge of day to day operational details... but where does the buck stop?

NRO has most of the power

and do they, eventually, report to the president?
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Jim

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #54 on: 11/20/2017 12:24 AM »
This seems confusing. Does the person who is in charge report up to the secretary of the Air Force? or to some other department? What is the line of control that leads to the presidency, or to Congress ?  Else I really am confused at what you mean.

I get that "in charge" might not apply in terms of knowledge of day to day operational details... but where does the buck stop?
This seems confusing. Does the person who is in charge report up to the secretary of the Air Force? or to some other department? What is the line of control that leads to the presidency, or to Congress ?  Else I really am confused at what you mean.

I get that "in charge" might not apply in terms of knowledge of day to day operational details... but where does the buck stop?

NRO has most of the power

and do they, eventually, report to the president?

Through the SECDEF and DNI

Offline Rummy

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #55 on: 11/23/2017 06:38 PM »
This seems confusing. Does the person who is in charge report up to the secretary of the Air Force? or to some other department? What is the line of control that leads to the presidency, or to Congress ?  Else I really am confused at what you mean.

I get that "in charge" might not apply in terms of knowledge of day to day operational details... but where does the buck stop?
This seems confusing. Does the person who is in charge report up to the secretary of the Air Force? or to some other department? What is the line of control that leads to the presidency, or to Congress ?  Else I really am confused at what you mean.

I get that "in charge" might not apply in terms of knowledge of day to day operational details... but where does the buck stop?

NRO has most of the power

and do they, eventually, report to the president?

Through the SECDEF and DNI

The NRO is the tail that wags the dog.

Online zubenelgenubi

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Re: Space Force
« Reply #56 on: 12/03/2017 11:30 PM »
Congressman Rogers: A space corps is ‘inevitable’, December 2, 2017, by Sandra Erwin

Quote
It was not meant to happen in 2018. But it will happen, perhaps in a few years.

That is Congressman Mike Rogers’ take on the space corps, a cause he has championed as chairman of the strategic forces subcommittee of the House Armed Service Committee.

Rep. Rogers, of Alabama, and ranking subcommittee Democrat Rep. Jim Cooper, of Tennessee, inserted language into the House version of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2018 directing the creation of a stand-alone space corps within the Department of the Air Force — similarly to how the Marine Corps was stood up within the Department of the Navy. The provision didn’t make the final bill but the committee’s crusade to give space an independent voice in the Pentagon continues.

Rogers noted that it took 26 years for the Air Force to evolve out of the Army Air Corps. “We don’t have 26 years for this. But it’s going to happen. It’s inevitable,” he said Saturday [December 2?] at the Reagan National Defense Forum in Simi Valley, California.

Quote
The space corps would exist inside the Air Force, which currently oversees 90 percent of U.S. military space programs. “What we have found is that space has not been able to get the attention it needs, culturally or resource wise,” he said during a panel discussion that also featured Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson and U.S. Strategic Command chief Gen. John Hyten.
***

One personal word choice opinion for the Representative: There has to be a better word for what you want than "segregate."  Separate?

Quote
Rogers said he is convinced that “we have to segregate the space professionals.”

(It's like that fellow at a Florida? space conference during early 2012 who introduced presidential candidate Newt Gingrich and kept describing Newt's space plans as "grandiose," as if the word had a positive connotation in the context.

And then, ISTR, Newt started describing his Moon colony proposal as grandiose.)
« Last Edit: 12/03/2017 11:48 PM by zubenelgenubi »
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