Some CEV / SRB Launcher Images

[MKremer]

Avron - 6/9/2005  2:53 PM

A splashdown used to work? It was good for Apollo in an evac..

I think why not open up the restraints for launch... make it flexable.. Man look at the the afternoon weather at KSC..

I think he's talking about a crew evac from the vehicle while still on the pad. Using the launch escape system for a pad emergency can often be more dangerous than just getting the crew out of the vehicle and to safety. (like a sudden propellant leak or vehicle electrical failure)

I doubt NASA will ever ease launch restraints enough to risk lightning strikes. They learned their lesson with Apollo 12, and modern high density integrated circuit electronics make the risk of failure from lightning even greater.

[NASA_Twix_JSC]

Avron - 6/9/2005  2:53 PM

gladiator1332 - 3/9/2005  3:51 PM

And what about if an evac is needed? At KSC they either use the elevator or hop on a zip line. An oil platform would complicate things. Climb down the pad, then off the platform into a waiting boat...way to complex. No the best place for a manned launch remains at KSC. There is no reason at all to launch the SRB Launcher anywhere else.

A splashdown used to work? It was good for Apollo in an evac..

I think why not open up the restraints for launch... make it flexable.. Man look at the the afternoon weather at KSC..

It has been terrible weather today at KSC.

[publiusr]

I'd love to ride the SRB.

The EELVs are what should scare you.

[Stardust9906]

Avron - 6/9/2005  8:53 PM

gladiator1332 - 3/9/2005  3:51 PM

And what about if an evac is needed? At KSC they either use the elevator or hop on a zip line. An oil platform would complicate things. Climb down the pad, then off the platform into a waiting boat...way to complex. No the best place for a manned launch remains at KSC. There is no reason at all to launch the SRB Launcher anywhere else.

A splashdown used to work? It was good for Apollo in an evac..

I think why not open up the restraints for launch... make it flexable.. Man look at the the afternoon weather at KSC..

I think the point of using SDLVs is to keep the development costs down, by using as much of what is already available as possible with some modifications.  Designing and building new launch facilities from scratch and implementing completely new procedures will surely take more time and cost  more than modifying what we have now.

[Avron]

Stardust9906 - 7/9/2005  7:40 PM


I think the point of using SDLVs is to keep the development costs down, by using as much of what is already available as possible with some modifications.  

I am totally in line with the whole SDLV using existing facilities with minimal changes.. I was just considering other options for the CEV that looks like a SRB with a bit more attitude..

[Stardust9906]

Avron - 8/9/2005  3:37 AM

Stardust9906 - 7/9/2005  7:40 PM


I think the point of using SDLVs is to keep the development costs down, by using as much of what is already available as possible with some modifications.  

I am totally in line with the whole SDLV using existing facilities with minimal changes.. I was just considering other options for the CEV that looks like a SRB with a bit more attitude..

Fair enough. I just feel that it would be quicker and cheaper to modify the existing pads rather than develop a whole new launch facility.

[Chris Bergin]

I think the plan is to use the two pads in tandem for the two types of launcher. Before the end of the STS missions, one pad (A or B) will start the changes to the SRB/CEV. At the end of STS ops, SDLV works off the other pad. I think the really big ones, such as the Longfellow and or Magnum would be from the Cape on a pad down there. Just a guess from the documents out already.

[gladiator1332]

I have some new images to add as well. This is sort of a WIP...in the latest release of the SRB Launcher, there are now several types, including the noral 4 seg and 2nd stage. But new to the add on is the 4 seg 3 stage....and the ultimate SRB Launcher. 5 seg 3 stage!
With this super SRB Launcher you can launch the CEV to lunar orbit. Ohters have done it, but so far I have been unsuccessful. It takes a lot of fine tuning on the ascent so you just have enough fuel in the 3rd stage to make a low parking orbit and then the TLI burn. The add ons creator said he did all of this and the LOI burn with the 3rd stage. That takes some skill!

Now I really don't think NASA would go for a manned 3 stage SRB Launcher, however, it may have some use for cargo. However, we can easily do an Apollo 8 style mission with the SRB Launcher, without the need for the inline. The SRB Launcher would launch the Exploration stage to orbit, and then the CEV would follow on another SRB Launcher, dock to the stage like Gemini/Agena and then its Apollo 8 from there on out.

[realtime]

Thought someone should say it: "Nice work."  

Amazing what can be done with the venerable and versatile SRB.

[kraisee]

I'd like to ask about one detail on these pictures which has raised my curiosity.

I was under the impression that the second stage of 'The Stick' would be a 5m wide stage, with an EELV-style 'generic' fairing attachment to attach a CEV which was likely to also be 5m wide itself.

These depictions seem to have a CEV much wider that the liquid stage.

So I'm wondering if the stage is significantly narrower, or if the CEV is significantly wider?

I don't know the dimensions being used in these images, but I'd like to understand what is different from my current understanding.

Thx,

Ross.

[simcosmos]

kraisee - 11/9/2005  7:07 PM

I'd like to ask about one detail on these pictures which has raised my curiosity.

I was under the impression that the second stage of 'The Stick' would be a 5m wide stage, with an EELV-style 'generic' fairing attachment to attach a CEV which was likely to also be 5m wide itself.

These depictions seem to have a CEV much wider that the liquid stage.

So I'm wondering if the stage is significantly narrower, or if the CEV is significantly wider?

I don't know the dimensions being used in these images, but I'd like to understand what is different from my current understanding.

Thx,

Ross.

Hello,

I do not wish to be accused again of spamming these forums To keep it short: I'm the author of the SRB launcher Orbiter addon (Biconic is from other fellow orbinaut) and the files are still heavy work in progress (this includes all 3D model's dimensions, shapes and details, the textures and their mapping, numbers used on the configuration files, mission plans and test flights, etc, etc)

Ross, if you wish to have more precise details about the second stage diameter (yes, it will be wider in one possible next version) or any other related information, please email me.

To end, just for reference, 4 related development links…
SRB launcher: http://orbit.m6.net/v2/read.asp?id=25364
(older thread): http://orbit.m6.net/v2/read.asp?id=24520
Biconic CEV: http://orbit.m6.net/v2/read.asp?id=26235
110MT SDLV: http://orbit.m6.net/v2/read.asp?id=26421

And one temporary image saved from my site's LivePics page / feature:
(to where I transmit live Orbiter flight or development sessions)


António

[Space101]

>I do not wish to be accused again of spamming these forums<

Then STOP mentioning it in every post! Get over it

[simcosmos]

Space101 - 12/9/2005  2:26 PM

>I do not wish to be accused again of spamming these forums<

Then STOP mentioning it in every post! Get over it

Space101, you are perhaps correct and I apologize: just mentioned it because the nature of my previous post was exactly equal to my first post here. That mention was perhaps unnecessary, again I apologize: it is just me trying to avoid confusions and misunderstoods, not creating them. I do NOT plan to go back to that issue.

Back to topic: in my current SRB launcher addon implementation the upper SRB stages (3rd stage is for now a little creative liberty) have a diameter of around 4.6m. The planned diameter should be something more like 5.1m and that is the approximate diameter of the payload adapter available in the current versions that are online.

For later versions I plan to delete that adapter and enlarge the stage as well start correcting / adding other details (like wrote above: dimensions, shapes, etc). The CEV capsule design that I'm building has 5m diameter and it is based on Apollo shape. Work in progress. Further details are in the links available on the previous post / by email.

Best regards,

António

[Chris Bergin]

Actually, it's my fault....you're proving to be a useful poster...welcome to the site

[simcosmos]

Chris Bergin - 12/9/2005  4:17 PM

Actually, it's my fault....you're proving to be a useful poster...welcome to the site

Hi again,

Thanks Chris for the welcome (what is past is past)

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Global picture is made of several smaller ones...
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Let us just talk about space exploration. The only "detail" (in the lack of better English word) is that, at least on my personal case, space exploration and Orbiter space simulator are very interconnected subjects. I hope you all do not be upset if in my possible future contributions here I continue to mix what we know from real life data (official or just hypothetical) with what we can simulate in Orbiter.

On my humble opinion, this interactive process helps to have a better global picture of what is going on (see the above dev threads).

Taking the example of the SRB launcher, and although its current simulation is very, very crude (for example when regarding to the not yet implemented thrust curve profile for the SRB), it is possible, with the available data, to have a feeling about the launcher planned possibilities (and future / not planned ones?). With the space sim is also possible to simulate historical / current and future space hardware and missions... Imagine: the last STS mission was simulated by many orbinauts, from launch to landing, in real time!



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Back to the SRB launcher and another example:
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Playing with the current numbers, and again forgetting a little about the non-implemented SRB thrust profile (I'm using average SRB thrust values for now), it seems that one SRB launcher variant using…

5 segment SRB + 100tons 2nd stage (J-2S) + 50tons 3rd stage (J-2S)

… can be used to do Moon flyby missions or to deliver cargo / orbital modules or small landers to the Moon, as long as the payload has a mass, say… of around 15tons or so (this based in one quick and clumsy flight test)

This is interesting because, another funny supposition, it would perhaps be possible to start some interesting manned / unmanned Moon exploration scenarios with the SRB launcher, without having to wait for the heavy lifter.

Of course these are mere suppositions and, once more, the current rocket simulation is a very crude one (I would need to program c++ and build a dll if wanting to better play with the available data… look at the SDHLV dev. thread) but it is at least funny, to take the "stick" and try numbers / ideas by using notepad, one generic dll (controlled by a simple INI file edited on notepad) and... given that Orbiter’s physical engine is very accurate for something simulating the Solar System and running in home computers


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Regarding the previous images, posted by gladiator1332, and CEV
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They are the result of a development integration with a Biconic CEV concept, by Francisdrake, another Orbiter developer. As you can see the SRB launcher still has lots of work ahead, both in visual aspects and regarding numbers… I'm making a kind of waiting compass for the 60 days study… Then will have much more solid data to work with… Perhaps about what engines will really be used by the second stage (J-2S?, 4xRL85? hummm need info about these... SSME? / modified SSME?), and all kind of numbers, etc, etc

Meanwhile, and despite having lots of fun with the Biconic concept, I'm playing with an Apollo style capsule CEV (some early pics available on the, now outdated, pdf distributed with v1.0) and gathering all kinds of stuff to make a future version of the addon (including also the heavy lifter)… Providing real life gives me time for all that and I do not get distracted with other virtual issues and toys.

Ok, long enough post for now!

cya,
António