Author Topic: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)  (Read 328676 times)

Offline gongora

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #640 on: 11/21/2017 09:14 PM »
Well, if you define it as Big Falcon Rocket then it can already go here...

Offline jpo234

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #641 on: 11/21/2017 10:40 PM »
Well, if you define it as Big Falcon Rocket then it can already go here...
But we know it's not.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline meekGee

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #642 on: 11/21/2017 11:27 PM »
Well, if you define it as Big Falcon Rocket then it can already go here...
But we know it's not.
But that would make for an awkward thread title.

General effing rocket discussion?!
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Offline cscott

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #643 on: 11/22/2017 06:59 AM »
Well, if you define it as Big Falcon Rocket then it can already go here...
But we know it's not.
Gwynne says it is.  Ergo she says it goes here. .;)

Offline gongora

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #644 on: 12/05/2017 06:52 PM »
FAA license for CRS launches from SLC-40 was updated yesterday.  Nothing major changed.  They dropped the version number from Falcon 9, tweaked the insurance values, and extended the expiration date to Dec. 2019.

Offline old_sellsword

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #645 on: 12/06/2017 08:59 PM »
I thought Block 2 referred to the v1.1 config.

No, Blocks are subdivisions of Versions (ie F9 v1.1 or F9 FT).

Offline Arb

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #646 on: 12/23/2017 11:26 PM »
What's the frame thing in the first image (cropped from an Iridium 4 launch photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacex/25377628288/); an old launch mount?

Image two shows it on Google maps.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #647 on: 12/24/2017 12:20 AM »
What's the frame thing in the first image (cropped from an Iridium 4 launch photo https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacex/25377628288/); an old launch mount?

Image two shows it on Google maps.

It is either an old launch mount, or a new one being constructed that is FH capable.

Offline gongora

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #648 on: 12/28/2017 02:10 AM »
[Sandusky Register] SpaceX marks its testing spot at NASA Plum Brook
Quote
SpaceX personnel recently brought back a refined version of its Falcon 9 payload fairing to the NASA Plum Brook Station for additional analysis.
...
The newest rounds of testing started in September and should continue into February.

Offline Kansan52

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #649 on: 12/28/2017 04:08 PM »
Do we know why additional testing and when it was tested the first time?

Online AncientU

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #650 on: 12/28/2017 04:12 PM »
Do we know why additional testing and when it was tested the first time?

Fairing 2.0 is due out any time now.  Maybe that's what is in test.
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Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #651 on: 12/28/2017 05:26 PM »
[Sandusky Register] SpaceX marks its testing spot at NASA Plum Brook
Quote
SpaceX personnel recently brought back a refined version of its Falcon 9 payload fairing to the NASA Plum Brook Station for additional analysis.
...
The newest rounds of testing started in September and should continue into February.

Also from the article:

Quote
Representatives of SpaceX ... declined an opportunity to interview for this news story. They also prohibited any media, such as photography and video, inside the testing venue.

Which kind of supports the reason for lack of information we have on this new fairing - SpaceX does not want to talk about it.

And that is understandable, because being in the public eye does not allow them to fail gracefully - it becomes front-page news around the world. And even though we do hear more things in L2 than the public does, even there SpaceX is not open about ever new thing they are working on.

I can imagine if every decision I made at work was made public that it would end up changing how much risk I would be willing to take, and that is counter to what SpaceX wants (and needs).

OTOH, being a member of NSF means I'm quite happy to find out what they are doing! So hopefully there is a happy balance...
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Online ClayJar

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #652 on: 12/28/2017 05:27 PM »
Do we know why additional testing and when it was tested the first time?

Fairing 2.0 is due out any time now.  Maybe that's what is in test.

That's pretty much what I read from the second line in the article, "SpaceX personnel recently brought back a refined version of its Falcon 9 payload fairing to the NASA Plum Brook Station for additional analysis."  The only reason to go back to Plum Brook for testing would be significant changes, i.e. Fairing 2.0, that you don't just run with as part of the requisite constant tweaking.

As for when the first fairing was tested, that was apparently back in 2013 (as mentioned in the third line of the article).  That's fits with the first fairing-carrying launch being in Cassiope in September of 2013.

Offline cscott

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #653 on: 12/28/2017 07:40 PM »
It might also be that fairing 2.0 is related to their recovery or Starlink plans, and they have historically been quite close-lipped about those. Photos of the fairing-under-test would probably reveal details of those projects.

Online AncientU

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #654 on: 12/28/2017 07:59 PM »
[Sandusky Register] SpaceX marks its testing spot at NASA Plum Brook
Quote
SpaceX personnel recently brought back a refined version of its Falcon 9 payload fairing to the NASA Plum Brook Station for additional analysis.
...
The newest rounds of testing started in September and should continue into February.

Also from the article:

Quote
Representatives of SpaceX ... declined an opportunity to interview for this news story. They also prohibited any media, such as photography and video, inside the testing venue.

Which kind of supports the reason for lack of information we have on this new fairing - SpaceX does not want to talk about it.

And that is understandable, because being in the public eye does not allow them to fail gracefully - it becomes front-page news around the world. And even though we do hear more things in L2 than the public does, even there SpaceX is not open about ever new thing they are working on.

I can imagine if every decision I made at work was made public that it would end up changing how much risk I would be willing to take, and that is counter to what SpaceX wants (and needs).

OTOH, being a member of NSF means I'm quite happy to find out what they are doing! So hopefully there is a happy balance...

Think you are completely off base here.  SpaceX does a million things in public view that are much more significant than testing a fairing.  More likely is that they are in a highly competitive race to loft their constellation and compete on price, and fairing recoveries are part of that plan.  There might be features of fairing 2.0 that they want to keep under wraps as long as possible to avoid giving up any advantage they might be expecting to reap.
« Last Edit: 12/28/2017 08:01 PM by AncientU »
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline RotoSequence

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #655 on: 01/10/2018 04:38 PM »
The Falcon 9 second stage has a limited lifetime.  It can't wait indefinitely before doing its reentry burn.

Following the discussions of ZUMA's fate, what would it take to extend the lifetime of S2 to 24 hours for separation issues and other contingencies? What would it take for a week? Would it even be worthwhile? I imagine keeping the LOX tank in cryo is the bigger show stoppers than solar panels, but I don't really know.
« Last Edit: 01/10/2018 04:39 PM by RotoSequence »

Offline Roy_H

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #656 on: 01/10/2018 05:02 PM »
The Falcon 9 second stage has a limited lifetime.  It can't wait indefinitely before doing its reentry burn.

Following the discussions of ZUMA's fate, what would it take to extend the lifetime of S2 to 24 hours for separation issues and other contingencies? What would it take for a week? Would it even be worthwhile? I imagine keeping the LOX tank in cryo is the bigger show stoppers than solar panels, but I don't really know.

I seem to be doing a lot of OT stuff today. I think it is easy to use shading and/or reflection of sunlight to maintain temperature suitable to keep LOX liquid. OTOH the RP1 will freeze. Not worth the effort to heat the RP1, much better to go to methane which can be stored at the same temperature as LOX.
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Online AncientU

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #657 on: 01/11/2018 01:09 PM »
Fairing transport... something must be new/larger:
Quote
Ukraine’s Antonov helps SpaceX transport rocket hardware
Quote
SpaceX company has chartered Antonov to operate a single one-way all-cargo charter flight transporting outsized rocket hardware.

This became known from the relevant application, published on the Daily Airlines Filings American portal.

“SpaceX, a company that designs, manufactures, and launches rockets and spacecraft, has chartered Antonov to operate a flight transporting rocket payload fairing halves loaded on a shipping fixture and a trailer, plus ancillary parts and support equipment, from Los Angeles, California (LAX), to the Shuttle Landing Facility at the Kennedy Space Center in Cape Canaveral, Florida.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-economy/2380337-ukraines-antonov-helps-spacex-transport-rocket-hardware.html
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Online abaddon

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #658 on: 01/11/2018 02:03 PM »
Fairing transport... something must be new/larger:
And since we're talking fairings here, it must be wider... length can't possibly be an issue.

Is there any other possible reason?  I considered scheduling reasons (faster transport) but I'd guess that chartering a flight like this isn't fast, so that seems unlikely.

It also seems unlikely that SpaceX would design their normal fairings to be wider than can be road transported, so... what gives?  I'm assuming these flights aren't exactly cheap.

Offline Jim

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #659 on: 01/11/2018 02:04 PM »
Fairing transport... something must be new/larger:


Wrong, it was just a quicker way to ship the Zuma fairing to Hawthrone and back.


There is no larger fairing in work
« Last Edit: 01/11/2018 02:05 PM by Jim »

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