Author Topic: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3  (Read 314240 times)

Offline cppetrie

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #660 on: 12/25/2017 08:46 PM »
AIUI SpaceX is funding any and all pad changes from their operating funds. They have an exclusive lease so no one but them will be using it. They do have to turn over all the recovered materials from the RSS and give it to NASA. SpaceX isnít funded by cost plus contracting. They get X dollars to accomplish Y tasks. They get to spend those funds however they want to accomplish the task they were paid for. Expenses incurred to accomplish those tasks are on them.

But some milestones might free contract funds linked to the tower. The program is long and they need cash flow.
We know for certain that funds flow based on milestones. Whether any of those milestones are tied to the RSS coming down I donít know. To the extent it enables placing the Crew Access Arm, it might, but I doubt the RSS coming down is a milestone in and of itself. Increasing the height of the FSS I doubt is any sort of milestone as that is part of enabling VI and has nothing to do with any current contracts.

From SpaceX sources: none of the RSS demolition work is tied to CCP milestones.
Plus: Jim can tell you that keeping a piece of unneeded structure in that salty-air climate will require big bucks for upkeep.

In other words: SpaceX is getting rid of the RSS on its own dime, and it is for practical, as well as financial,  reasons.
Thanks for the insight. I figured as much.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #661 on: 12/26/2017 05:10 AM »
Another, clearer shot, from Ken Kramer:

Quote
Shuttle era #RSS is being rapidly dismantled in recent weeks prior to 1st test flight of @SpaceX #FalconHeavy-set for sometime early 2018. Large chunks of @NASAKennedy Rotating Service Structure being detached-see my Dec 23 pics from @ExploreSpaceKSC tour bus #SpaceUpClose

https://twitter.com/ken_kremer/status/945506105198895104

Offline Comga

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #662 on: 12/26/2017 03:06 PM »
Another, clearer shot, from Ken Kramer:

Quote
Shuttle era #RSS is being rapidly dismantled in recent weeks prior to 1st test flight of @SpaceX #FalconHeavy-set for sometime early 2018. Large chunks of @NASAKennedy Rotating Service Structure being detached-see my Dec 23 pics from @ExploreSpaceKSC tour bus #SpaceUpClose

https://twitter.com/ken_kremer/status/945506105198895104

A question for anyone with appropriate mechanical expertise and intuition:
Can Heavy be safely launched with the remainder of the RSS hanging there or does removing much of the projecting structure become schedule critical?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online speedevil

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #663 on: 12/26/2017 04:34 PM »
A question for anyone with appropriate mechanical expertise and intuition:
Can Heavy be safely launched with the remainder of the RSS hanging there or does removing much of the projecting structure become schedule critical?

This image   from spaceflightinsider. shows it well.

The transporter-erectors long side (when erect) points at the thick hinge pin for the RSS.

The RSS structure connected to that hinge pin is all pointed mostly away from the rocket.
In addition, it is very, very heavy structural steel and has had much of its area removed, so making it not an issue.
« Last Edit: 12/26/2017 04:38 PM by speedevil »

Online Johnnyhinbos

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #664 on: 12/26/2017 05:33 PM »
Iíd say it survived a few shuttle launches, so itís just business as usual for whatís left...
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

Offline IntoTheVoid

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #665 on: 12/26/2017 07:00 PM »
A question for anyone with appropriate mechanical expertise and intuition:
Can Heavy be safely launched with the remainder of the RSS hanging there or does removing much of the projecting structure become schedule critical?

Sounds like it won't be going anywhere unintended.


Those bearings are just like "normal" thrust bearings in every way, except for the fact that they're gigantic, and carry a gigantic load while moving, and, like all other "normal" bearings, they have set-screws to hold them in place once whatever it is that's moving, has moved to its intended location where the work gets done.

And I wound up, having to schlep one of those set-screws up to the pad deck in my ratty old yellow VW bug, from our field trailer.

And it was one of the craziest things I've ever seen in my life.

The set screw was identical in every way to a "normal" set screw.

Except that it was machined from a single block of aluminum, complete with acme threads and a nice point on the bearing-end of things, a hole drilled through it on the opposite end with a rod through the hole that could be hand-turned by whoever it was that had to go up on the tower and turn it, and it was about ten inches or maybe a foot in diameter and about four feet long, and must have weighed over a hundred pounds!

Set-screw.


Offline NX-0

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #666 on: 12/29/2017 03:58 PM »
What is the length of the CAA compared to that of Saturn V and Shuttle?
It seems like it will be quite the reach.

Offline IntoTheVoid

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #667 on: 12/29/2017 04:15 PM »
What is the length of the CAA compared to that of Saturn V and Shuttle?
It seems like it will be quite the reach.

Given that it's the same FSS as shuttle, and same flame trench, if one presumes the vehicles are centered or nearly so, then the CAA should really only differ in length by the difference in dragon radius to shuttle body width from the center line. That'd be a small difference compared to the overall length of the CAA.

Wasn't the Saturn V tower on the MLP? So it's CAA was probably a good bit shorter, possibly by half?

Offline nacnud

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #668 on: 12/29/2017 04:26 PM »
A quick look at some photos suggests that the Saturn V CAA is shortest as the LUT is on the MLP. Next is the Shuttles CAA and then the F9s.

The diameter of the shuttle orbiter crew section was around 20ft while the diameter of F9 is about 12 ft, so the arm only needs to be a little longer.
« Last Edit: 12/29/2017 04:27 PM by nacnud »

Offline NX-0

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #669 on: 12/29/2017 04:32 PM »
What is the length of the CAA compared to that of Saturn V and Shuttle?
It seems like it will be quite the reach.

Given that it's the same FSS as shuttle, and same flame trench, if one presumes the vehicles are centered or nearly so, then the CAA should really only differ in length by the difference in dragon radius to shuttle body width from the center line. That'd be a small difference compared to the overall length of the CAA.

Wasn't the Saturn V tower on the MLP? So it's CAA was probably a good bit shorter, possibly by half?
The side-by-side here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42705.msg1765140#msg1765140

Seems like the CAA for F9 needs to be about as long as the ET Vent Beanie.
Or is it an optical illusion?

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #670 on: 12/29/2017 05:20 PM »
The side-by-side here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42705.msg1765140#msg1765140

Seems like the CAA for F9 needs to be about as long as the ET Vent Beanie.
Or is it an optical illusion?

No, not an illusion, I think it is pretty accurate estimation. The CAA will be at a similar height and be of similar length as the ET vent arm.

Offline chrisking0997

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #671 on: 01/02/2018 04:30 PM »
Ive been wondering how the CAA will clear the top of the TEL...just seems like it will be a tight fit based on the pics ive seen but maybe D2 will change that
Tried to tell you, we did.  Listen, you did not.  Now, screwed we all are.

Offline nacnud

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #672 on: 01/02/2018 04:55 PM »
I think Dragon 2 is slightly stretched compared to cargo Dragon so there should be space for the CAA to clear the TEL

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #673 on: 01/02/2018 08:02 PM »
Ive been wondering how the CAA will clear the top of the TEL...just seems like it will be a tight fit based on the pics ive seen but maybe D2 will change that

What do you mean with 'clear'? The CAA will be attached to the side of the tower, not built on top of it.

Offline gongora

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #674 on: 01/02/2018 08:20 PM »
Ive been wondering how the CAA will clear the top of the TEL...just seems like it will be a tight fit based on the pics ive seen but maybe D2 will change that

What do you mean with 'clear'? The CAA will be attached to the side of the tower, not built on top of it.

I think his point was that the CAA is attached on the same side of the tower as the TEL, so the motion of the arm will have to account for that obstacle.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #675 on: 01/02/2018 08:22 PM »
Ive been wondering how the CAA will clear the top of the TEL...just seems like it will be a tight fit based on the pics ive seen but maybe D2 will change that

What do you mean with 'clear'? The CAA will be attached to the side of the tower, not built on top of it.

I think his point was that the CAA is attached on the same side of the tower as the TEL, so the motion of the arm will have to account for that obstacle.

Oh. Is that certain? I had always assumed that the CAA would swing in from the other direction.

Offline nacnud

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #676 on: 01/02/2018 08:26 PM »
The CAA is hinged directly above where the RSS is hinged.

Edit: there was a pic on the internet somewhere, be right back...

back, check out the SpaceX Flicker
« Last Edit: 01/02/2018 08:46 PM by nacnud »

Offline gongora

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #677 on: 01/06/2018 02:54 PM »
CRS-14 launching from SLC-40.  Will be interesting to see if any F9 launch from 39A in the first half of 2018.
« Last Edit: 01/06/2018 03:19 PM by gongora »

Offline whitelancer64

Launching from SLC-40.  Will be interesting to see if any F9 launch from 39A in the first half of 2018.

Why wouldn't they?
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Online Johnnyhinbos

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Re: Pad 39A - Transition to SpaceX Falcon Heavy debut - Thread 3
« Reply #679 on: 01/06/2018 03:02 PM »
Launching from SLC-40.  Will be interesting to see if any F9 launch from 39A in the first half of 2018.

Why wouldn't they?
I believe because of the not insignificant amount of work required to reconfigure the frame back to a single stick (and then back again for the next FH launch).
John Hanzl. Author, action / adventure www.johnhanzl.com

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